visits are a big don't call. welcome to worlds apart teller and inclusion and be understanding these are values that the l.t.p. community has long stood and called for and can't be merely i dumped it style of the l g b t advocacies anything but tolerant and inclusive do calls to boycott the olympics and other sporting events really how to fight against homophobia well to discuss that i'm now joined by five time olympic medalist and one of the world's greatest divers greg louganis missal again it's a big honor to have you on the show thank you it's great to be here now. almost over and so far we haven't heard

a single gay athlete complaining of discrimination or on all mistreatment here in russia isn't that perhaps a sign that all those allegations about l g b t a legit l g b t persecution in russia. may have been blown out of propulsion do you think the calls to boycott these olympics were justified well i have also been following on the internet i'm not watching n.b.c. . just staying true to supporting the sponsors of the olympics and so in seeing what's happening in russia. you know there were arrests there was transgender individual that was taken away escorted away from one of the venues you know so yes i mean there are there are things that are happening i think that n.b.c. is sweeping a lot of it under the carpet we're not hearing about a low. out of the things but you can find

a lot of the true information on the internet but isn't this something that also happens routinely in many of the western countries as far as i understand violence against gays and lesbians and transgender people has been on the increase in many of the western countries in particular in the united states in two thousand and twelve i believe it was at the highest level since one thousand nine hundred eight yes i mean we we've been making strides forward in some areas and then in some areas of our own country i mean we've been taking steps backwards but i think with the community you know i was able to get married in the state of california the state that i live in many of the states are are are following suit. you know justifying that. legislating marriage or legislating

love and that's all it is is you know is unconstitutional well missile again is just to put things into perspective all those legislative progress notwithstanding according to the f.b.i. in two thousand and twelve thirteen hundred crimes motivated by homophobe ever registered in the united states thirteen hundred crimes in russia in the same period of time just twelve were registered so you may dispute the russian figures they were compiled by one of the leading watchdogs here in the country nongovernmental watchdogs but you know while fake crimes motivated by homophobia in russia compared to thirteen hundred crimes in the united states don't you think that you know the we may have a bit skewed picture here and the station in russia may not be ask ridiculous as it is usually described at least compared to the united states he you know i i feel

that i take issue with that because in order to you know to register and a hate crime then you have to feel you know that you have support behind you i think that. a lot of times those statistics aren't quite accurate because people are afraid to to report a hate crime as a hate crime so because of the you know the climate of the mentality they're living in i think more people i think that in in the united states i think that we're more comfortable to say you know yes this is a hate crime because we know by law you know for the most part i mean we are protected by law. you know to not be discriminated against in most of the united states well i think that the russian gays and lesbians are also protected by law

not to be discriminated against there are absolutely no criminal punishment for being gay in russia but unfortunately i agree with you discrimination doesn't have to be legalized sometimes it's just social attitudes playing out and to that point i would like to ask a question on the style of l g b t advocacy because many people would argue that this very persistent somewhat aggressive style of. advocacy is actually hurting gay people in russia because many russians when they hear you hear those calls to boycott the olympics they actually have approached again lesbians ask it goes they believe that the west is all out on russia because of all all all those concerns and i would argue that it's not making the lives of algae pretty community here any easier i was born gay you know when i was growing up when i was a child i didn't put sexuality to you know my you know my identity i mean that's where i'll ask my straight friends you know well when did you choose to be

straight. it's not a choice we're born this way it's a human right it's a birthright to love and be loved. and you know that's that's just my feeling what i've been saying all along is there is a gay child born in russia every day and who's protecting that child these anti propaganda laws were passed to uproot to quote unquote protect children from the propaganda i don't i don't see it as propaganda it's all we're trying to do is live our lives you know if you know if you're up in arms about me holding hands with my husband walking down the street. and you call that flaunting well you know when you have a married straight couple and they're holding hands in their. arms around each other making out i mean you know is that flaunting i think we come to the issue of sexuality and i think there are

a lot of cultural differences when it comes to sexuality homosexuality or heterosexuality russia is well new russia at least is a fairly young society it's barely twenty years old and i don't know if you know that but back in the soviet union sexuality any forms of sexuality were highly suppressed and many people to be honest with you didn't even know about homosexuality as a phenomena back then for example my grandmother didn't know at that time that gays existed so i think russia is far more up tight when it comes to any expression of sexuality heterosexuality homosexuality why do we have to accept your social norms rather than being able to evolve those norms ourselves but we are sexual beings i mean like it or not whether we're straight or gay. you know we are sexual beings i mean that's our nature but you know that again sexuality

expresses itself very differently in different countries in saudi arabia they have . one set of rules and being gay there may get you executed in russia people have different set of rules in japan for example social norms also also different i don't understand why all those countries while the rest of the world has to accept western norms especially given that many western countries only adopted you know marriage equality and nondiscrimination discriminatory policies towards gays less than a decade ago it's not a question of western eastern anything like this this is a question of humanity how are we treating our you know human beings you know like i said it's a birthright to love and. he loved you know the pope has come forward in support of the community and say to say who is he to judge you know who is it who is the

government to judge but it's not about the government the problem is that in many post soviet states and many arab states people have while you can you can call it a homophobic view but essentially this is science he is not yet ready to accept that seventy five percent of russians support this law i for example don't support it but. who am i to tell those seventy five percent oh who are you to tell those seventy five percent of russians that this is the way they supposed to leave their lives this is the way their children have to be taught why do you think that the your right to self-expression or your right to hold hands with your husband supersedes that riots as parents to protect their children or not to expose their children to the information that they dislike but what if that child is gay well their lawyer in an over itself doesn't preclude that child reaching out do we want to extinguish that you know that grouping. of society.

rates amongst gay teens is higher than any other populace of people cuz whether it be you know inundated with religious views or you know with these anti propaganda laws that are passed by a country where you know the government shouldn't be in my bedroom you know everybody is entitled to a private life but mr louganis your arguing for expressing your sexuality in public absolutely you are within your private life within your rights when you come to moscow hope it happens soon when you come to most of your comments your husband you know you stay together in your hotel room you do whatever you want but why do you feel entitled to being able to. you know express your homosexuality or your sexuality publicly among the people who actively ask you not to do that well you

know what why can't i express myself as a human being as an individual as you know as a whole person. you know straight people flunk their sexuality on a daily basis with pictures of their children their grandchildren their sexuality united states but not so in this country oh yes they do i've seen many pictures of you know of their of weddings of you know you know from you know straight community from russia you know i see pictures of their children you know isn't that flaunting their sexuality well i think they they would say that it is the majority living you know what they call normal lives but you cannot argue that homosexuality still and minority behavior i don't wanna. you know it used to be a pathologist even in your country i don't want to subscribe to that you but you have to take into account the fact that homosexuals only account for five to seven

let's say or eight percent of the population and that means that this is a minority behavior and ok so what so what blacks were a minority and the united states and they didn't have the right to vote you know women were not did not have the right to vote but they're human beings you know take you know take the labels away and they're human beings and it's and it's a birthright to be to love and be loved. however we express that is really our business and the government shouldn't tell me how to how to act i'm not saying that you have to do this i'm not telling anybody that they have to do anything all i'm doing is expressing myself and have the freedom and liberty to express who i am but. mr lehane is on the other hand you know there is a this expression in rome do as romans do but unfortunately we have to take a short break now when we come back why some governments have up until recently had

a long track record of persecuting sexual minorities and yet they are now at the forefront of their brain ball revolution how much of this is pure geopolitics that's coming up in a few moments on well the part. right

the. first trip. and i think will be. on our reporters. in. the the in . while come back to all the parts of discussing the politics of gay rights fifty five time olympic champion and diving latin greg louganis mistal again is i know that recently you joined a number of gay advocacy groups in calling on the international olympic committee

to deny the hosting of the games in the future or are there sporting events to the countries we chaffed what you describe discriminatory and to get a loss i wonder how you defined discrimination because it can mean anything from capital punishment for being gay to the lack of recognition of same sex marriage what is discrimination for you. discrimination for me is you know the lack of freedom of expression. you know whether that be you know the anti-gay laws that were passed in. propaganda laws that were passed in. you know in russia or. you know the laws of you know uganda where it's a crime it's a crime to be who you are. my view is why aren't we celebrating

who you know a human being we should and every human life is valuable i mean we wouldn't have a cough ski we wouldn't have had nuri we wouldn't have had. you know countless of martina navratilova you know these are incredible individuals who happen to be gay mr louganis and i totally agree with you i think that. because there has been so much so many inaccuracies and sometimes outright falsehoods on this lie just want to make it clear that again in russia at least being gay is not criminalised there absolutely no punishment for being gay in russia the only thing that these floor precludes is spreading. information favorable information on nontraditional sexual behavior and by the way that law doesn't even mansion homosexuality or gay it doesn't it has no mention of that even though i assume it's implied you know

what i mean i'm sure that there you know there are other a nontraditional you know straight you know contingencies what are you going to legislate against couples who swing you know who that actually a good heart nurse or is it only a certain type of sex that you're legally able to have you know so what what is propaganda you know it's so unclear thing that's disturbing to me with the passing of these laws. is was protecting the child who has who's questioning himself that who might be you you know you know who's supporting them while he's there because they're being told by their government that they are that they are wrong and that there's something wrong with them and also the other

thing that's also disturbing that's coming out of russia is that their people are equal aiding homosexuality with pedophilia now if you do your research pedophilia and home of homosexuality are two separate issues i mean they aren't even near you know each other i actually agree with most of what you say i think the only correction i would make is that it is not people in russia who are equating homosexuality with be the feely it's actually people in the west who are seeing some of the videos coming some of the disturbing videos coming out of russia who are equating to feel about homosexuality because there are a number of vigilante groups here in russia who try to set up paedophiles seeking actively seeking out dates with minors and they are presented as attacks on homosexuals speech is simply a straight out lie ok so you know i don't live in your country so i don't know the

information that you're getting and what it's available to you you don't live in my country and a lot of times the information that you are getting about you know is a little skewed so no i think that there's a lot of education going on in the united states you know that's the reason why i'm speaking all over the country. colleges universities and and talking to young people you know excel embracing the differences of other people but also celebrating the. similarities we all want to be loved you know that we all have to have the right to be loved well it's hard it's hard to disagree about that but speaking more formally about the institution of marriage do you think that the lack of recognition for same sex marriage represents a form of discrimination definitely because as as a gay person we're second class citizens this was one of my mom's biggest concerns

she passed in zero four and you know her her tears you know when i came out to my mom telling her that i was gay. you know she you know she was very tearful and she said well you'll always be a second class citizen because you won't be able to be mary and you know and you don't have the same rights you know as a straight individual love his love i mean and and so you know that shouldn't be. you know that shouldn't be villainize i agree video but mr lehane is i think many people feel extremely protective of the traditional definition of marriage not only in russia but also in your country and since you mentioned some nontraditional sexual behaviors earlier like for example polygamy all polyamory i wonder how far are you willing to go the red definition of marriage do you think people who have

polyamorous relationship also should be entitled to register those as as marriage you know that's not a part of my culture so i really can't answer that. all i can do is represent myself and speak for myself you know truly you know and i you know i i fell in love with johnny shy we got married in october october twelfth and i'm appreciative that we have that ability to do that well i'm very happy for you but i would like to take you back to your lympics propose. do you realize that if the international olympic committee it were to accept it. the pool of potential candidates to host any big time games would be extremely narrow and your own country the united states would probably make the cob the problem is that the united states itself has at least twelve states there have sodomy laws on books

will you be content with your own country being denied the right to host let's say two thousand and twenty four two thousand and twenty six olympic games as far as i understand the united states is actually considering that possibility at this point in my view sure they should be they should be kept to the same standard as everyone else i mean the i.o.c. should be you know should be you. example to say you know what the olympic ideals and true sport you know we don't condone. any type of discrimination missile against let me get it straight so as a former olympian you would actually. while come the united states being denied a chance to host the two thousand and twenty four olympic games because of these sodomy books that exist and taxes in alabama and some other states as well sure i mean you know. they not be held in alabama you know because you know

the united states is so big you know we have all of these different states i mean and we have very accepting states you know i don't i don't lump them in as you know this is one question i don't have to live in the united states i live in california that's a very interesting answer if i could ask you one more question on politics i know that you describe yourself as an old political person but on the eve of sorts shell lympics president obama said that he has no. patients for countries discriminating against gays and lesbians and that's despite all those sodomy laws that the united states itself has on books but i wonder why do you think politicians are so eager to join the l.g.b. cause now because you know in russia many believe that all this rhetoric is more and to russian than bt given they gan the type of discrimination that it exists in

your country against belgium bt people in the united states is a very you know it's it's a large country. and we're divided up into states and there are certain states that are very you know open armed and accepting there are some states you know that are follow a some traditional rigid legis rhetoric which things are also changing in those areas where a lot of those laws that are being submitted are being voted down as unconstitutional and i think it's a minority that's kicking and screaming in trying to raise a ruckus we are and anybody to fear at all missile again is i think i ask you this question before but let me crystallize it the little bit you just said we are. we aren't you know people to be fear and then he have the style of the advocacy of

recently has been very aggressive has been very you can even call it discriminatory because you after calling for you know inclusion and tolerance what you are now calling for is boycotting isolating and shaming and i wonder if you find the style of advocacy a bit counterproductive to the l g b t cause because after war afterwards after all it's going to hurt l g b t people on the ground you know all those people in the united states of america all those activists they will be fine they will make names for themselves but there must be. well while living here they'll be pretty community here maybe sad ticked to mourn the loss of two than it used to be but i never said boycott i have i have never said boycott i was all in favor of the games going on because boy a limp inc boycotts hurt the wrong people it hurts the athletes i was involved i

competed in one thousand seventy six was a silver medal so in one nine hundred seventy six we boycotted the one nine hundred eighty boycotts and moscow because for. that time the soviet union's afghanistan and which i didn't agree with. you know i wanted to go there as an athlete and show our displeasure in another way and still be able to compete nine hundred eighty four i won two limpid gold medals but the eastern bloc countries weren't there so there were it wasn't a full representation of the olympic games i was also then able to continue on by the grace of god to compete in the one nine hundred eighty eight olympic games and was successful there and winning two gold medals a limpet boycotts hurt the wrong people when you're talking about commerce and business i believe that those boycotts do work it makes those businesses

and those people with the power to take another look again missile again i totally agree with him and if you seconds that we have left can i just clarify because you just said that you do not support the olympic boycotts and yet i saw your name your signature on a statement calling on the international olympic committee to deny future games to countries that discriminate or you believe that i discriminating against the gays can you clarify these two somewhat. conflicting bits of information. yes the ok the petition that's out there. because i believe it was the ukraine was was submitting russia you also mentioned they gave you support that russia was also mentioned. it's been a while since i read it so yeah you know i think that the i.o.c.

needs to hold themselves to their own charter which states in principle six that there is no discrimination and so you know and you know what you can put china in there too we were in beijing you know and. they don't have the greatest human rights records well i think that they're very qualified but mr louganis unfortunately we have to leave it there i really appreciate your being on the program. and to our viewers keep the conversation going on our twitter you tube and facebook pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on the on the part.

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headlines from international the ukrainian parliament votes to deposed president. refuses to step down saying the opposition is attempting a state. former prime minister yulia tymoshenko is released from prison and addresses protesters in kiev. meanwhile local of forty from the east and the south of the country hold an emergency meeting to take control of their regions claiming the central parliament's decisions are unconstitutional. and the european mediators that help to broker a deal for ukraine say they will support the new government while admitting the opposition has violated the agreement. more news coming your way in an hour's time but coming up next it's breaking the set with host abby martin this is r.t. .