and to make matters worse we now know the two of the most important opposition leaders mrs dumas schenkel and mystic political have ruled themselves out ok i'd like to turn to war against amanda in brussels how do you see things playing out in care right now because we've seen is that the opposition is having a very hard time finding some kind of unity how in the world if they can't find unity during a crisis situation that we have right now how can they reach out to the east that is watching this with a very wary eye well i would agree that historically. the opposition parties in ukraine have found it quite difficult to cooperate with each of our but i still believe this time around we've seen a much greater degree of readiness to work together of course you could say the fact that they didn't agree this interim government today would indicate divisions but i would also say that we need to be extremely careful in choosing the personalities who are going to be representative in this government because it we

don't want a government that's filled with personalities from the past we need new faces so i don't think we need to exaggerate the fact that it's taking a couple of extra days to put this government together ok dimitry it is a crisis situation here they become trees only weeks away from default and it looks like the the western powers that are so gleeful about the illegal overthrow of this government are going to be able to cough up the money to keep this economy going because if it doesn't do that then it's going to be a problem for everybody well first peter i would like to correct you these people are not their position anymore they are in power in kenya diffract or at least a few people dollar to that they will be in power for the next few years because the e.u. and the united states were extremely quick in the recognize in their legitimacy or these new leadership even though all this. they deal between the out of court each

additional was on the division of powers not on kind in power over to these people . it's a scandal of the three foreign ministers or the e.u. countries france germany and poland to they guaranteed this so-called deal which was not worth the paper that it was written on and none of these ministers this is an even greater scandal none of these ministers all of them appear to be untroubled by this new development. it looks like the e.u. there that this phase may pressure the i.m.f. to give money to create this time not to give money of course but to lend money before and it may stay on record each the i.m.f. conditions were very tough. ukraine was supposed to hike the prices for electricity and for gas for the population it was also supposed to private eyes water that utility a saw that they could be they could become profitable and then they could be sold

to foreign company yes we will see if there i.m.f. will stick to the same conditions but i think that ukraine's bankruptcy is enormous interest i think these countries a grain it may become bankrupt if completely irresponsible people come to power i mean i'm going to go to alexander here because i think that is you know one of the things i find very troublesome about everything that's being played out here is that very few people in the west doubt that have any in questions about legitimacy of what's going on in care and i have a lot of concerns right there because you know you could say that there are maybe there was a real liberal element in kiev that wanted to see a change fine but they're in bed with some pretty nasty people that have not have not been elected by anyone except for some violent rioters on them i don't indeed can i just say one of the most dangerous and alarming of these people mr dimitri yarosh i saw today. he is actually angling to be made deputy prime minister

in this interim government which would be a very alarming development indeed now on the question of legitimacy let's be absolutely clear that not only was the power sharing arrangement that dimitri was talking about not worth the paper that it was written on but what we have seen since friday has been an extraordinary colab of any kind of constitutional order mr yanik overeaters removed from power without any process of impeachment. laws have been passed out and for normal rate. by a parliament doing completely the opposite of what it was elected to do. an acting president has been appointed contrary to the provisions of the constitution and steps are being taken to outlaw or at least to prevent or restrict the use of

russian which is also contrary to the constitution now to talk about legitimacy in this situation is to my mind extremely difficult this is not a legitimate situation it is a revolutionary situation in which the traditional political leaders the people we were talking about klitschko yet saying york tymoshenko they are not in control the people who are in control in kiev are entirely different people very violent people sometimes very extreme people people with very alarming views but they're the people at the moment who are in charge because they have the crowds and they have the guns ok men have if you think the european union should be in bed with some of these people from of the right sector of the border i mean anyone who takes any interest in what's going on in ukraine will find out that these are a very unsavory people with some very very violent in and really backward looking ideas about politics. well i think we have to remember how we got to this point in

the first place and the reason why we're at this point and including this economic disaster in ukraine is because of the bad economic and political policies of the leadership of the new conviction all of those cronies that were surrounding him i mean he basically ran ukraine like a fifth them which was only beneficial to himself. i don't think i don't think anybody on this program would disagree with what you're saying but you're not answering my question well of course there is extremist elements within this group of euromaidan protesters we know that but still the broader base of these protesters are still remain all remaining peaceful and calm i don't think you can define all of these people as wielding guns because that's simply not the case i mean if you go out into the streets of kiev today and we're not seeing violence all over the place but the expectations is from euro maidan protesters they want to see

this new interim government when it's put in place temporary leadership deliver on the promises that they've made on the original demands of the people so of course they are going to be that say a bit skeptical given the history of ukraine's political elites dimitri here in moscow i mean can you have a transition to any kind of form of democracy defined by washington or brussels when it's being ruled by a mob. well. peter i i would at the same time agree and disagree with something that i'm on the sas on that one can't yes not all of the people in mind on where wielding guns in the same way in one thousand thirty three not all of the people who voted for him wanted to be exterminated not all of them wanted to invade russia or to become monsters of your . this is the problem you know maybe in a few days you will have less people will dingaan's right now there are all of

these so-called self-defense units controlling kiev and these self-defense units organized people are in all the governor in the in the west on the over ukraine in the divorce they forced the former police officers to stand on the knees and to beg the crowd for forgiveness you can watch it on the internet and their so-called liberal. media in ukraine that like the western support that. they cherish these images they say that this is the civilization this is democracy although it seems it looks a bit medieval to me the problem is that it's enough to read the programs of these people i mean read the program of jarosz he says that people who don't want to speak ukrainian should be expelled from ukraine he says that nuclear weapons should be brought back to ukraine ukraine should have nuclear status again these views of he is are shared by new book and we see shaking hands with catherine ashton

and with victoria nuland and with other people from the e.u. in the united states i think that most terrible consequence of what happened in ukraine is that the united states and the u. disqualify themselves as saying to me jarius after they failed to guarantee they dream and that was signed under their all spaces how can they be trusted in future . if there is any conflict in the former soviet union in russia or in belarus or in armenia and there may be a lot more conflicts who will view the e.u. and the united states as arbiters a centimeter eous this is awful and i would say that coups are not a new thing in the former soviet union they have been happening since one thousand nine hundred one and even before but the problem was that before the united states in the you were never very quick in supporting coups ok he. was toppled in one

thousand nine hundred one. you know was toppled in a zero by two hours later all was the united states and europe always took a somewhat detached attitude they've waited for a few days they never said that we're happy about what happened and here they guaranteed a game going hungry again here we're going to when you're going to go to a short break and after that we'll continue our discussion on ukraine stayed with r.t. . leave immediately. i.

fly a transit route to vnukovo report your best way to the heart of moscow. the comments which we hear from the readers and radicals they sound like ukrainian salafist they say ok europe is not the europe which we are dreaming about because the a family values on the mind the christian values on the mind the gay marriages law and blah blah blah as long as on and so and so forth it sounds like european taliban if one can exists. winter is when the sahara comes to life again laces palm trees are being harvested

. people are waiting for the biggest event of the year. the desert festival. this is true it is very out of this race leading camel races have spent the last year preparing for the grueling marathon. the day before the race there's a heavy sandstone overcoming the power of nature is a never ending challenge. on a desert winter a nutty. you know we've. heard. welcome back to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the recent developments in ukraine.

ok amanda let's go back to you in brussels there's an old saying if you you break it you own it and since the e.u. has been so. been involved in the recent events even i would call a coup illegal coup in care isn't it now responsible for what happens in care of right now being you know people talking about giving it loans and all of that i mean it's really quite interesting isn't it that you know the people of greece and cyprus probably find this really quite odd that the european union is so interested in involving itself in the affairs of ukraine well i don't find it odd whatsoever i mean ukraine has been for a long time a key part of the e.u. it's a very important state a transit state between russia. and the e.u. so i don't find it strange at all and of course what we've seen out in the streets of ukraine for the past three months has made it very clear that people on your own

maidan have been looking to europe looking at the west for support and assistance from the e.u. to help them democratize and modernize their country i think the e.u. actually has a responsibility to support the ukrainian people to increase security and stability on the european continent which is exactly what the e.u. was created for and i believe in fact the e.u. actually has been too slow in reacting to what happened i mean ukraine perhaps if they'd gone in earlier with a more robust policy we perhaps might not have seen so many deaths i think the e.u. is correct to try and help ukraine finance. really and this financial of commander saying what how big of an event at now are going to be rewarded where you are then they have been ok my goodness ok what business is it of the european union to determine what political environment there is an. alexander if i go to you in london i mean it seems to me and i'll be very blunt here this is just kind of a very imperialist think attitude that it knows better for other people i do not

see any scenario right now but there is a good outcome for ukraine it over the next few months next few years i mean the country is going into bankruptcy and who is going to pay for it is of the european union going to pay for it no i doubt it let yanukovych go ahead i entirely agree cannot can i just say something which is this mystery and code which we are all agreed was an awful leader he was due to face an election in march two thousand and two two thousand and fifteen which he would surely have lost if he had lost that election if that election it happened in a normal way whoever would have taken over would have taken over in a democratic way with a constitution and a government that works worked what we have now because of the way in which he was overthrown is an art of the chaotic and fragmented situation in which everything is falling apart and that is precisely because of the wholly

illegitimate way in which this was done preempting the result of a democratic election now it was not in the e.u.'s interests it seems to me for that to happen and if we have an economic crisis on our hands which is going to be far worse than it would have been had we had a functioning government in kiev with working within a proper constitutional system ok and here you has to pay the bill of that well what is the surprise. it seems to me. and went and looked at remembering because we're new and leaked conversation everything is going to plan because they want the e.u. in washington want to have their people in charge in kiev they don't want to elections there they don't want to democracy there because they won't be able to choose who's in power they're doing it right now as we speak well i would.

play a devil's advocate here for some time. speaking about. i think that he was corrupt and ineffective though he had been the good thing about him he looked for a compromise. not only is he offered the position that position all of their prime minister. he also offered the e.u. several ways out of the crisis before the meant he actually didn't cancel these. fated association agreement with the you he just postponed it and he suggested try later negotiations between the e.u. law school and kiev to run out the differences on the trade courses and the answer from brussels was no we won't have try later negotiations we're only going to talk to you so the e.u. indeed its role in the key of was extremely negative i would like to hear what

amanpour would respond to me you know when she says that the you got involved too early well i think that the involvement of the year was. wholly negative because even now the things that are coming from the e.u. you know like warnings. are brought you know chairman of the european parliament's committee he came to ukraine today and he said that ukrainians should stop when chant because this may provoke russia's intervention there are no signs of russia's intervention there was not a single statement by the russian leaders that would make it look for civil there were no intercepted conversations nothing but steel you know the e.u. frightening ukrainians by the scarecrow over russian intervention created this terrible atmosphere or witch hunt so i think the elmar brok is the last man quarter fight to stop the witch hunt because he believed in the way and how can you stop

that which of if you will if you believe in that which is ok a man you do want to reply to a dream about which is sad to say here first of all of course elmar brok i mean he doesn't represent the e.u. i mean his comments are wholly unhelpful of course but hey it's not representing the. he you he's not a leader of a member state to an e.u. official and i just want to return to the point that was raised earlier about how we should have waited until the president elect sions next year i mean quite frankly i don't think there's any doubt that these elections were not likely to to have been free and fair i mean the last parliamentary elections and in ukraine and we know that they were far from being free and fair this was widely reported so quite frankly the chances of presidential elections being free and fair was not very likely i mean mr yanukovych which is rule for democracy going downhill very quickly in ukraine you know you say where you live in new orleans mission to save democracy and in ukraine can you answer that question why is it your responsibility

i mean let's look at it from the other way it's not the european union that's a demander here it's the it's the ukraine that is demanded from the european union for many years a closer relationship both politically and economically i mean the european union does not go around looking for countries to save the request came from ukrainian political elites from civil society from france from society as a whole they want to have this engagement with the e.u. they want to have the relationship but what we have seen and i also get from president a new crate and his government no one other than one of the big problems here is that it is a divided country it's a divided country our xandra can you address that here because again you know we we have these differences in eastern west and that's what's happening in kiev right now is giving plenty of people good reason to say hey you want kiruv you want my dog you can have it because a lot of people are dissatisfied with the kind of political slogans and ideology that is spewing out from care of right now and they don't want to have anything to

do with it. well exactly because of course from the the point of view of the people in the eastern ukraine this is the third time that a government they elected has been overthrown it happened in two thousand and four it happened in two thousand and seven and it's happened again and not only has it happened this time but we're seeing people like mr yarrow should we talked about before and others like him speaking in the most extraordinary way and talking in a most repressive where and not just about russians by the way but about jews the chief rabbi of the ukraine has said the jews are no longer safe there now when that happens both course people in the east and the south of the ukraine who do not share the views of some of the people on my done are concerned and of course that accelerates process of fragmentation in

a situation where the constitution is no longer working which it isn't at the moment i you know i think you know amanda speaks about democratic elections not happening in two thousand and fifteen we never got there we never found out up to a few months ago the e.u. was dealing with mr yanik overreach as the democratically elected president of the ukraine they were dealing with the parliament as the democratically elected parliament of the ukraine now we're told that in two thousand and fifteen that might not have been the case and in that as as a result of that we have total chaos in kiev now repression all over the place men with guns and you know i am amazed by this denial that the still is on this question when the facts on the ground speak overwhelmingly for themselves and people in the south and east for the first time seriously. talking about secession

. here in moscow how do you see that the issue of secession because it's you know it's it's always been there there's the there's been people even people in the crimea looking for an opportunity like this because they don't like the rule from care of how is this going to play out because i know a lot of there's a lot of tensions here there's a lot of tempers flaring what's going on in the east and south. i don't believe that ukraine a will split. of course what's going on there is a lot of injustice. you know people in the east and in the south of ukraine they lived under the soviet union they were formed under the soviet union so they have a lot of good things you know that they inherited from the soviet union they also have some bad ones and the bad one is to always look up to the authority to walk up to kiev to fulfill the orders even though these orders are now coming from possibly

the people who are like mr jarosz i think it's a scandal that mr jarosz who holds all the in the anti-semitic use is going to become a deputy prime minister of ukraine i think it's a scandal that mr tague nyborg is median european leaders that for the first time since i think nine hundred thirty nine we have the situation. i was sorry that i'm on they could not finish i think i can fall into thinking you know when you say that elections were criticized by the media so that means that the next election is going to be unfair. i don't know then it's very easy to invalidate any election in the world i'm a journalist i walked with a western journalist i know how easily they report about the breach of electoral processes in other countries not in the rule i mean international organization folks i'm really sorry i wish i really wish we had more time but we've run out of

time many thanks to my guests in brussels london and in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. unix time remember i'm. really. busy. equal rights. to the. lives. of the young girls. all for the future harder.

between two and three hundred million guns united states so you can act like they're not here and keep kids away from them. the plaza sound is the law or you know i mean this teaches them a lot of are a responsibility and simply come to pay through the eyes of children if we can do it for our children love for our future what the country will say for. the interview. i feel good.

it was a. very hard to take up. arms against. there is a plan that. will make their lives. a little. bit a. little.

live. a. little under one arm and a leg new knowledge base the same time peter limone. lead . a pleasure to have you with us here on our team today i roll researcher.

the to supporters and opponents of ukraine's self declared leadership clash in the southern region of crimea where lawmakers are at loggerheads over whether to sever ties with while in the capital crowd on independence square the hub of the uprising a thumbs up to several ultra nationalists eyeing places in the new government. members of the public. polls vigilantes and armored cars patrolled the streets of a muslim neighborhood in east london sparking worries of a clash of cultures. and an inquiry into the work of the troika of international lenders to struggling eurozone states. flaws in the system.