he was detained for over four months by the f.b.i. interrogated over thirty times and he lost eighty pounds he was finally returned home where no charges were filed against him he would just let go with no explanation or apology so the a.c.l.u. brought the case to court to try to get some protections in place for americans against their own government when they travel abroad because apparently there's a need for that in the past other americans have similar stories about being tortured by the f.b.i. all american soil and brought cases to court that were also dismissed and that's exactly what's happening in mr michel's case right now it was just dismissed and guess what the court used as grounds for dismissal yep they said the u.s. government had a right to detain and torture an american citizen abroad because of national security the court also said that while they found mr michelle's case disturbing

they think it's really up to the legislative branch to figure it all out it is such a joke our government treats us like a bunch of three year olds who they can keep in line by scaring us with their terrorism believe me and and they're played out phrase national security but the very unfunny part of this joke is that now they've got the courts on their side tonight let's talk about that by following me on twitter at the rest of them. you. say. you. believe these. things are.

hello and welcome to all things are considered on peter lavelle a genuine appeal for peace negotiations or a gambit to intensify the conflict these are only some of the questions surrounding the ukrainian president's call for a cease fire and take your forces in the east say it's a trap portugal's options are narrowing. to cross talk or to shrink or so-called truce i'm joined by my guest marcus papadopoulos in london he is the editor of politics first magazine in new york we have don de bar he is an anti-war activist and host of a daily radio program and in washington we crossed ivan eland he is a senior fellow and director of independent institute all right crosstalk rules in fact gentlemen that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it marcos if i go to you first in london. does polish and go ask for

a ceasefire out of strength or out of weakness or cannot just first of all say peter it's a good thing that russian news outlets are covering the conflict in ukraine in depth because if western media had the field for their selves the world wouldn't be hearing about this terrible dreadful conflict which is in current civilian casualties every single day but you know president poroshenko he's approaching the conflict in a very good place this man on the one hand he talks of wanting to bring peace to the region to have negotiations but on the other hand he's maintained and i'm prosecuting a terrible offensive which is resulting in just four civilian casualties so what i believe is playing a very very dangerous game here i think he's trying to lure the militiaman fighting against forces into a false sense of illusion while continuing to prosecute a military campaign using. grad rockets used in the air force using tanks so

personally i don't think any credence should be given to anything that polishing kerry says when he claims he wants to was over conflicts in eastern ukraine in a peaceful manner it's ludicrous you know don it's one thing that the government in kiev has been able to prove is they can kill civilians pretty well and i guess that's the it's the only thing it's been able to do because its own military is proving to be quite apt here it from a western ukraine perspective he better start getting some results speakers those guys on the on the my don i've been monitoring him i'm talking about right sector people here he wants the docs to words of peace but he really needs to get this resolved pretty quickly because his own power might be at stake. first i think to describe his job description i would go to what the permanent representative from russia to the u.n. tell the churkin said which is he's really a translator not

a president his job is to translate instructions from english into ukrainian and he's been doing that fairly well we've had the visits from various parts of the u.s. government to kiev right before the predecessor and this government attacked yet again the people in ukraine the people in ukraine i mean it's the eastern part of the country but if you look at an electoral map from the two thousand and ten election. the last president to the deposed president pulled about a third of the vote in kiev it's not as monolithic in the west as as it's portrayed here so ukrainians are ukrainians and the ukrainian military which by the way part of the reason that it is so when that is that there have been massive desertions from the beginning when this coup government and its successor said to attack its own people this is really a proxy war by the united states being fought against the people of ukraine with the comprador group fully established by coup in kiev and i think the opposition

perhaps it will evolve and while you know some other smaller parts of the west of the very far west that are traditionally attached to poland you won't see as much but there was support for the people in the east and for their own rights in large parts of western ukraine that we haven't seen expressed yet ivan eland in in washington we came across that famous telephone conversation with victoria nuland you know if there's one recording there's got to be a few hundred if not a few thousand recordings of her instructions to kim how much do you think the u.s. is behind whatever strategy poroshenko has. well i think probably too to a great extent i wouldn't necessarily go as far as don but i do think the u.s. has heavily. influence. because of course they're providing the assistance and of course the e.u.

is backing up with economic loans and so is the united states both financially. and militarily and. advising the ukraine certainly the u.s. has a big role and i think the united states looks on this as a. ukraine as a real prize. and i know a friendly government in ukraine to the united states of course is better than a government that's friendly to russia and i think you know the e.u. has behaved really started this crisis by saying it's all or nothing ukraine and i think you know ukraine really has to nestle between the two blocks and it also has to have autonomy in the east simply because of the political situation there whether we'll get to that point i don't know but certainly there is a tug of war there to try to. ukraine from the russian influence you know

markets it's very interesting i've been said something to i think is absolutely compromising no negotiations if this is a this is insanity here and this is what's causing all of these deaths you know pushing all mention decentralization federalization that's been talked about for months now all the sudden he talks about it is effectively his own idea absolutely because for the united states government and the european union it's a matter of it's our way or the highway there's no compromise and the way in which she crying has been treated by the e.u. and the united states is disgraceful ukraine should have been allowed to choose on the extent of critically elected leader present in the code which is what we wanted to push economic relations with russia or with the european union and president had a mandate however that didn't fit into the agenda of those in washington and those

same crossroads they want to see ukraine come away from russia and firmly entrenched itself in the west. by joining the european union and eventually joined in when we hear western politicians talking about we have to sit down and talk in a reasonable manner about ukraine that's just that's just and he took us empty rhetoric the reality is that there is no compromise and we just we need to do is look in the east of the country we've got a ukrainian military that is and that has proven itself to be a net and yet it's still fighting this bloody war and of course if pushing to wasn't being backed politically economically and also undoubtedly militarily by people in washington and in brussels would really be still prosecuting this war when the ukrainian military is not achieving any progress you know done that the further this goes on the more of a identity issue arises in the east of ukraine because before all this nonsense

this invented crisis i really want to stress that invented crisis public opinion polls in the east of the country people didn't want to join russia well every day that passes more deaths people are going to rethink that and then we're going to even have a bigger problem here because we're going to have a self partition this is and then washington being uncompromising wants everything this is a catastrophe well i mean some people are alluding to this as being a replay of the fifteenth century or something and i guess if you wanted to go back that far which is you know. in this hemisphere you could but i think the context of block politics that was referenced earlier although it applies in fact i don't think is a necessary precondition to the current situation is rather something that's been created by the west i don't know how much russia has to do to show that it would

like to be integrated into the rest of the world politically socially and economically it dismantled the so. the union it dismantled the socialist economy it did everything that was asked of it and then some from one nine hundred ninety one until the last few months really and yet it is the one that separated from the g eight and the g eight becomes the g. seven and you know it's oster size so the creation itself of blocks in a block tension is this is a creature of the west and it serves a particular purpose the purpose is to serve the interests of the elite here that do not want to see competing centers of power economic political social whatever anywhere in the world but rather vassals to whatever state organization they have control of at the moment is the united states military is the european political construct they had hoped although that now they're turning on china to use china's economic power also as

a part of this construct and this is almost like looking at you know molotov ribbentrop in poland back in yeah one nine hundred thirty nine in terms of the break in the real estate between the two blocs if i were doing strategic planning for the russian military i'd have to be looking at it that way and looking you know at this basically as the beginning of an invasion of russia physically i mean how many military assets do you have to deploy to the theater before people on the other side start thinking that way well that that's exactly how they're thinking about it in this country where i live i mean you and i mean how look how far do you think russia is i'm sorry washington is going to go to get the prize called ukraine mine is crimea well i think. you know it has to be several rason they have to be somewhat subtle in their approach because the ukraine is a little different than some of the other countries and i do agree with don i think

this is a western imposed block system because i think if you recall. george . bush the first verbal a promise mikhail gorbachev that north nato wouldn't expand well of course nato has repeatedly expanded right up to russia's borders and so it's create that's created the reality what should have been done after the cold war is if you want to keep nato as a talk shop invite russia to join as a full member and not have blocks but that's the root of the problem ok all right gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to was short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on ukraine stay with our team. you know the reason the legal. right is in the. little.

league games are a little very hard to take a little while to get along here there's a lot that had to act with that here make sure you know. that it's. simply. sleep. sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep. sleep sleep sleep. sleep for the political.

i marinate joining me. for kinda impartial and financial reporting commentary can from news and much much. only on bombast and only on. i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our

t.v. question lol. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle two minute we're discussing the recent developments in ukraine. ok i'd like to go back to marcus in london the person known as yeah he'll be remembered as yaks because of victoria nuland he said he wrote on a website in the united states for the ukrainian embassy and referred to russians

is sub human but nobody seemed to pick up that in western media we did of course and i'm going to talk about it what do you think about that the last time i heard a term like that in europe was in the one nine hundred forty s. . what one of the realities stemming from present yannick over it's been over for him was that neo nazis and anti fascist in ukraine are now playing a role in deciding ukraine's future however there are often groups and i would refer to them simply as unk hoof individuals uncouth individuals who hold positions of power within ukrainian government referring to individuals referring to russians as subhumans a so-called foreign minister and i use that term in a very loosely way referring to president putin and russia in a derogatory way is this really what twenty first century europe is all about is this was a country. crane is supposed to be in the modern civilized era where individuals

are referring to russians as subhumans and as she said the last time the russians were referred to subhumans that was back in the 1940's nazi ideology and that resulted in the x. in the deaths in the deaths of thirty million russians and yet there's no cause the west has a history of working with odious groups when its its interests you know i don't want to divert the way from ukraine but look every year in the in the boat expects of latvia and estonia that all what they are waffen s.s. veteran parades who in washington or brussels has ever condemned those parades what would happen if it happened in london or berlin there'd be outcry and rightly so and in ukraine you have people in the ukrainian government referring to russians as subhumans that's completely unacceptable it's appalling and yet there's no condemnation because these people in kiev making these comments are the tools of

the west they're the tools of the west to bring ukraine away from russia and thereby weaken russian influence in europe and in the world to madly in john i don't know if you saw a gent sakis comments about those comments and i was just left completely speech was i maybe you don't have a comment and you were left speak with the speech was as well go ahead. i actually spoke to the monitor when i saw it. at the daily news i think you did but you didn't ring press conference. yeah and you know so she said it was inhuman instead of subhuman now it was originally and somehow that's different and i think of course i mean if you go to the song about jen psaki that's been circulating the internet perhaps she meant inhumane but in context it's clear and also she said and also the translation now is inhuman which is the same as subhuman only worse

subhuman is below human any human is this not human at all and so that was her explanation but you know the larger context is this happened the same week that you have a riot and attack on the russian embassy in kiev and the tali churkin at the u.n. cannot get anyone at the united nations security council to deal with it you have and finally finally. after you know much negotiation if they have at least had discussions about it in addition to that what this situation is a lot of young and the other places that are under siege in east ukraine at the security council the united nations of the united states you know through its proxy one of the baltic states acting as proxy refusing to allow a discussion or in any event a resolution to come forward looking for relief for humanitarian relief for the people there saying that there's no precedent cause in other words there is nothing

going on in eastern ukraine that would require humanitarian relief now it doesn't make sense looking at the facts on the ground where you have refuse you know tens of thousands of refugees water supplies disrupted all these other things but if you don't consider the people there human if there are any human suddenly humanitarian relief is of course not appropriate because that's for humans that's exactly it's not even subtext that's what's being spoken. and and the capitals and all of the you know norms for embassies all these other things are being completely abrogated in plain view without the united nations or any other structures dealing with it whatsoever it's a pretty frightening profit is frightening and ivan eland if i go back to you in washington it's all because it's really has very little to do with ukraine it has everything to do with russia doesn't it yes i think it is it's. trying to get as much of the near abroad away from russia as they can and i think some of your other

participants here have touched on something i think is you know this is rhetoric we're talking about now but as long as the conflict goes along it's going to become more bitter like the syrian civil war is you know more bitter and i think going to see radicalization the other comment i would make is that the double standard is not just in. covers rhetoric it also covers actions i mean putin was heavily criticized in the west for going into crimea about we see no equal criticism in the united states of the kurds for grabbing oil rich kirk cook so even such actions have a double standard here in the west russia russia gets very. amazing least slanted media coverage here in the united states. that's why i keep doing this topic ok marcus you were you were nodding your head what what what what an element of what i

mean just that you agree with their well i think it's important to clarify that in the one nine hundred ninety s. the west was happy to see russia integrated with the rest of the world why it was a happy with in the nineteen ninety's simply because of russia at that point was on its knees it was on its knees politically economically militarily it was totally dependent on the west on my feelings just to join stabilize the one. a commie so the west was happy then however today in two thousand and fourteen it's a very different russia russia is standing on its feet it's not dependent on the west anymore and then we lie it's the problem for the west that the west doesn't have that sort of dominance that it once had in the one nine hundred ninety s. so it has to look around the world it to countries which control and we can russia's influence and ukraine it's a huge area it's a huge piece of the jigsaw but if you crane was to come into the u.s.

and nato russia on its western borders effectively would be inclusive and it would be dramatically weakened but then you have to have a look in syria the americans have to have helped cause the conflict have resulted in the death of one hundred thousand people well it's no coincidence that syria and russia traditionally have close relations and if the syrian government was to fall and it streams with the come to power russia would lose its influence in the middle east so it's a game of chess but the americans a plane you know done is one of the things that's not really reported very i mean the story gets so bad bad coverage in the west but there's another story here that is very interesting is that the russian people are getting very very frustrated with the situation going on in east ukraine because you know what they're the same people and watching it and we will see all the feeds i mean it's all sanitised in the west we see everything here and it's really really disgusting and it really is beginning to bother people here because something must be done and putin has been

very strong in saying no we're not going to go in there we can't fix a problem that the west started in the first place but you know there's that other element here there's a lot of pressure on putin at home yeah i mean i'm seeing it with commentators for example. because i won't go into names but you know people that are on the show that are stressed over putin not going in and i understand that sentiment to a degree i do to the. you know that the have to look at the reality i'm sorry if you look at the reality of the situation you first of all have. people in western ukraine that are you know working class people that are sort of like klan members in the south they are easy to mobile you know this situation is uncomfortable for them they don't understand what's going on around them they feel disempowered some hotshot points at the people in the east that's the russians you know those people do not like you it's their fault and that's who they direct their hate at and that mobilizes a core group so you can fill up for example them i don but then there are people on

top of them who are actually organizing this kind of stuff who look at say the mines or the factories in the east want to be oligarchs who are present all the guards who would like to be sitting on top of that to the west of them you have people in the e.u. looking over the shoulder of those people with the west saying if we let these guys in kiev take that stuff all over we'll just take them over and then further than that you have the u.s. that's kind of how you construct this sort of thing but the real key here is that the prize is not ukraine the prize is russia ukraine is the doormat into russia that the u.s. has been looking for since the beginning of the cold war and even earlier if you go back to the period right after the revolution you will see that there was a proxy war fought in kiev more or less along i mean in ukraine more or less over the same fracture lines geographically and socially as now with the west using anti soviet anti russian proxies in western ukraine to fight.

it led to ukraine being brought into the u.s.s.r. but immediately towards the end of the u.s.s.r. it was the whole chain of people in the early one nine hundred ninety from kiev to laval but i think that were some of the early inside the u.s.s.r. proponents of dissolving it and of course i'm sorry i don't think that was spontaneously organized it was you know i know john let me let me go to i've been a legend so let me get let me get ivan give him the last word here on the program do you think that washington wants russia to invade eastern ukraine. well they say they don't but of course you never know i think that they probably would prefer not to because i think they like the friendly government in ukraine and i think that's very important but they've got to find some way to pacify the eastern regions and you know they may eventually come to some sort of autonomy. situation and if they

could get that that's probably what they would want i don't think they they really want to i think they would like to dampen the conflict there but of course they would they definitely want the ukraine in the western camp ok gentlemen fascinating discussion we've run out of time many thanks to my guests in london new york and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember. this is. huge and it's what you do next vulgarize ation of darwin science punishment for an on committed crime i was seriously students and believe me they teach feebleminded

still today so that if you don't know why. but there's still the i don't know why genetic improvement through forced sterilization the basis for nazi ideology they don't stop at just sterilizing yet not going to now go to the point of death. for years rarely discussed. till now really rather not talk about that right. i'm. a sight but if i think corp mind can. do and the bank all that all about money and i'm a fashion fit for a politician write the laws and read. that right coming up. here just to plug pratt is

a guy. that. i'm

abby martin and this is breaking the set so recently i broke down some of the craziest cia operations you've probably never heard of and as it turns out now there is one more to add apparently during the cia's search for bin laden the agency hatched a plan to get to distribute a dollar resembling the taliban leader in pakistan here's the catch when the dollar is exposed to heat its face melts into a terrifying demon in order to scare children from the real life then laughton yes this is actually real now the toy never made it past the prototype stage of this bizarre scheme exposes that even dolls are being used me and.