it will profit by destroying what our founding fathers. and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going. to go beyond identify the problem. rational debate real discussion critical issues facing you ready to join the movement then walk their. own welcome to sophie and co i'm sophie shevardnadze. we're here today in russian city of lights image where one of the fuses is the eastern ukrainian family solid piece. his wife and two children were forced to flee their home town where they say

more came without warning how did they escape and will there ever be able to return home. and his daughter are given a a group to share their story with us today. we were in east ukraine is forcing thousands to abandon their old fighting in showing the villages to send families running for their lives and for most russia is the closest safe haven the u.n. says over one hundred ten thousand people have already crossed the russian ukrainian border what awaits them. when will there be peace in ukraine or will the country ever be whole again. thank you so much for being with us today actually really touched it you create you share your story with us so let's start from the very beginning when did you decide to leave ukraine.

that was a decision my wife and i took together. after the massacre in a death on may second and when people were burned alive in the trade union building we realized it was time to leave after their deaths events the situation kept getting worse and worse for them all. so when we learned that the ukrainian army was moving towards the border and close a top. where fighting is going on at the moment something she says we decided to take our children away from this nightmare. that was in late may and june when she live in ukraine in the town offshoot of on a. it's a coal mining town right yes everyone works in the mines but you still have friends that are working in the mines right are the mines open are there still operate now sure many of the workers join the self-defense forces but the mines for all of the

processing plants to operate it well the wages are they're paid. when i was still there they did pay the salary new market but when the ukrainian t.v. channels began airing statements by the interior minister of russia and others saying that there would be an economic blockade i walk over that salaries and pensions would be frozen chicken and my wife and i realized we need to flee because the being simple to do we decided just to go away from that nightmare just tell me about how you fled your town. we packed our bags in the evening gathered the money that we had there was a big problem daughter just turned sixteen on may fourth but because of the unrest in the country she wasn't able to. get her passport. if you see in

ukraine children are eligible for a passport only when they turn sixteen so we handed in the papers and waited a long with the other papers we handed over the birth certificate so our daughter ended up without any documents at all and i went to the head of the registration office and i thought he could speed up the process but he warned me there would be no passports any time soon. so i asked him if i could have the documents back and he said no problem and that was it. i hope that her and her both certificate would be enough to cross the border the officers would not let us out saying the birth certificate is no longer a valid document now that she turned sixteen. she was supposed to have a passport. so how did you cross the border into russia when i went to the border checkpoint several times hoping that maybe a new shift of officers would help us i hope somebody would let us pause to see the

treasure cross the border all together the whole family. but it was no use my wife my younger son and i we were ok to pass but they wouldn't let my daughter out everybody was sympathetic understood our situation but still wouldn't let us pass so then. what happened was that the officers at the border control point in the guns gave up their arms after a shootout the same thing happened in the town of sirte lost the self defense forces found out they were right sector fighters there and surrounded the checkpoint they surrounded as well it all happened peacefully more or less turned out. that the border was not controlled any more talk the situation over with my wife she was afraid at first you see early in may we saw ukrainian helicopters arrive here with troops who planted mines in the area mine the roads installed booby. perhaps so that's why we were scared but in the end we made up our minds

if let's say you left your son and your wife at home and decided to cross the border illegally with your daughter yes i took my daughter and crossed the border with her illegally because it's night time very early in the morning with this he had to go through the forests. plains and forests. how did you manage as you made your way through who or what were you afraid of the most. of course is was all very scary but most of all i was afraid of walking into a booby trap and. the bush was thick there could have been traps i only saw such things in movies. i was scared. and before that i went to the russian border checkpoint where i was told ukraine's national guard could open fire on you and your crew if they had in these planes yes but thank god we made it alive i was just

going along to take you to get across the border this way which is about three hours maybe the whale were you scared as well. you very much so then you go back to your wife prayed yes i took my daughter to the nearest town in russia and left her with my friends. and then i called my wife to say i'd gotten i'm going across europe and then i went back. to take anything with you when you were fleeing with your wife and your little boy. but almost all really to tell you the truth our escape was spontaneous. and we didn't really believe it would work out. so all we packed was our i.d.'s and documents and things for our children and. we ended up with two bags that said. could you leave behind at home. the moment my cousin and my uncle were you brought

said they want to leave. they couldn't leave march the ukrainian side wouldn't let them pass. my mother my brother and his family my in-laws they were fleeing under bombardment mortar fire. they made it but i cousin helped my mother get out but he himself wasn't allowed through why didn't they let him through i've heard that they don't let men across the border yes that's right that only women and children leave why is that i mean why would he want all these men. from what my friends back home are telling me there are people making house calls in cities such as kramatorsk or parts of the region. they force young men to enlist in the ukrainian army to defend their country what country. are they supposed to defend. if you

refuse they shoot you to scare others. they just shoot men because i can. shoot people for refusing to serve in the army do you know someone like that or you are just told. been told at least there hasn't been anything like that in our town . but you must be in contact with your cousin with iran what are they telling to the station back and what's going on right now getting any better or worse i can tell you the city was on the shelling yesterday and the border checkpoint was bombed there used to be a female prison next to it. but it got burned down. checkpoint has been burned down at the malls in the post. the bridge linking the ukrainian and the russian border control have been bombed at least four hundred meter long bridge going over the

railroad and now has been destroyed. so i don't even know how people will be able to get across now but i don't want to shelling continue nonstop or does it get more intense at night or does it happen sporadically once a week how intense is defying. i can't even tell you. they usually open fire in the morning on june twenty seventh the fighting started at half past ten right after the peace agreement and it they cease fire yes the cease fire would you know so they started bombing a ten thirty and it went on for hours. but then it went quiet and later on the shelling resumed on which and at night shelling continues at night there's also drawn. before we fled we would see drones and helicopters every night so these

drones are they bombing the area or are they monitoring the situation. and i guess they were. also been a stimulus but can you imagine the stress people feel when they hear aircraft circling in the area especially with what's been going on inside. to tell you the truth no one reads or watches ukrainian media there because they simply lie about what's going on. where do people hide i mean what do people like your relatives to you when there is shelling are there any bomb shelters or just tie it's in their basements or do they go and. some stay at home there is a bomb shelter in our town located in the basement of the local community center. but not everybody was even aware of its existence. even and people weren't prepared for all this nobody imagined would be bombed by the militia. what do we

come back we're going to continue to talk to. a refugee from mr crane alaska where things craniums can't deal with this conflict themselves without outside interference. it's about seven years old it's one of the largest ten cities on the east coast of america and as you got about one hundred people here just because of economics the cost of how is a in this area especially is very high and i believe as an american we have a right. to care about or to possess public land until something is created

that's my house you see back there live it set them to well good at least then spend the. rest but if we hadn't done that we wouldn't have been home and i want to go we don't just hold the you know people of density we don't anybody that needs help so tell your friend to just give us a moral. mistake i'm never going to go city and today we have one thousand got a place to live once on monday i'll be out here with my dog. the try to. see people are going to be. like ok or it's a sure thing every made. me.

laugh oh well. like ok. let's say. this case is that it's. sometimes for nothing which. is so. it was just to look just keep up the story will be just if you see a stage at least eight look to be slightly but speech was lead. player. play play. live play.

lead player live live. cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. to live. war is probably the most complex and difficult human activity. for. all of us are still locked up. in the phenomenon of friendly fire probably extends back to the invention of gunpowder.

just killed a bunch of people in a family gone no more fair on their premises are already us people. reading. this some of them shoots my brother in the leg not intentional because it is because it was night times four in the morning even the best even the mesh shoulders. are going to make mistakes does this whole idea of brotherhood an author and an end camaraderie in this sense it was in this context it has absolutely no place. as a new physician i swear to abide by the hippocratic oath. to the best of my ability and judgment. i will prescribe for the good of

my patients. i will not give deadly doses to anybody. or advise others to do so. i will never do harm to any. doctors of the docs on. this immediate leave us so we leave that maybe. by the same motions to cure. all your party musical. questions that no one is asking with the guests that you deserve answers from it's all on politicking only on r t.

and we're back with somebody who is a refugee from the eastern ukraine who came to russia not long ago by saying. that your personal opinion what do you think why did all this unrest break out some say the west of the countries to claim there is blame the east of the country. what's your. real goodness they definitely think it's the west.

but them i've been thinking about it and i mean where do you see the us is a completely working class region. when protests kicked off in the independence square in kiev people in the bus were busy working on it but of those even those who weren't happy with the end of koby chant his government isn't doing their job it was to rather than take to the streets which are mobile crying media who people here like the stability they had. and then when unrest broke out when protesters vandalized central kiev the new government imposed wage deductions on miners from east ukraine to finance its cleanup and reconstruction it is true my wife also worked at a mine in miners have all got families to support. so who would be happy to give up part of their wage no one we never cared what they were doing we didn't go to their parts of the country the people of us have an opinion of our own so why should they

impose their views on us ukrainian media is saying a lot of negative stuff about our region they say people in the bus are a bunch of alcoholics junkies and social parasites if we're so bad then why do you need us. we've held a referendum to declare independence and establish the lugansk people's republic. and my brother was chair of the local election committee in our town by the way. what changed near a town since to self defense forces were formed. place self-defense forces appeared in our town and some of them have gone to to help defend it. some have gone to look and others didn't ask. there is the self defense forces in our town controlling the situation. i think you

are those people there miners farmers workers you know these people personally do you know anyone from the self-defense forces they are friends. one of them has been wounded and he's in hospital right now he's been wounded in the leg and lung i was already called to join the self-defense forces yes but my wife wouldn't let me go she told me i have children to take care of to look after if you don't know i think she will come down and maybe later i could join the fight. they want to return and join the self-defense forces of course so this is completely voluntary right nobody's that's right called upon force to join the self-defense forces no no no way and these are all your local men who you've known for a while yes forest they would just patrol the town. because a small town everybody knows each other there and once the unrest started we began

seeing a lot of strangers in the city as soon as fighting broke out in our area snipers appeared maybe they arrived earlier maybe they came to identify good firing positions. but they had been there before the fighting started contact with your friends are in a self-defense forces what are they telling you now i mainly keep in touch with my brother. i call him once in a while. so there is fighting going on there. didn't even stop during the cease fire you know key it calls these people terrorists. i think finds it convenient to label the people of terrorists and separatists or accuse them so the people in kiev's independence square were not terrorists and the people of the bus they are the terrorists. just because we don't agree with what

kiev is trying to impose on us and stand by our own convictions because the way i would have them would have you thought about why the ukraine army is large and well equipped can't defeat the self-defense forces. it's not just ukrainians they've got others too. yes this is one hundred percent true from the very start there were advisors working with the my down from poland all the e.u. countries and the us i think it's common knowledge of them is. just too much a place or even more so the ukraine army is being helped by the year's mercenaries why can't they do fit the self-defense forces might a little cause i think it's going to be extremely difficult to defeat people who are fighting for a cause. who are defending their land and their rights. because

whatever they do the will of the people can't be broken. this is important that your region is recorded as an independent state a number assia it's very important to me it does become important now after the conflict erupted or is it always like this. it was the west and the east of ukraine used to live somewhat peacefully. but deep inside they probably had issues with each other. i wouldn't say there was hatred but i can definitely say we didn't quite like each other. consider yourself ukrainian. don't like you you know if your son. i've been thinking about this i was born in the u.s.s.r. and i was taught by my parents to love my country and my great country. the things i've always been proud of were for example hockey i was proud when the russian team

won the world hockey championship. i root for russia when i watched the eurovision song contest. i am always cheering for russia my passport says i'm a citizen of ukraine but after all these events especially after the adesa tragedy for me ukraine doesn't exist anymore as a state what do you expect from the new president get a question. for me he's not a president do you think ukrainians can solve this conflict themselves will they be able to mend ties or involvement of foreign powers like russia or united states and europe is needed for this too and. i think people in the east have become extremely angry and anxious. a couple of days ago a ten month baby was laid to rest in the town no one should sit. i'm sure his

parents would never come to terms with their tragedy. they will never forget that their child was lost in a war that had been unleashed by kiev and the west of ukraine. the east of ukraine would never come to terms with this. that's what i think. so you need for and how will you manage on your own. course we need help never a caesar strong young state it's very fragile we definitely need help and i really hope russia will help us. at least i'm sure no one is looking to the west for any help. that some of the well the west says the russia is financing these self-defense forces so most of the self-defense forces are russian. you've crossed the border into ukraine is that so. i used to live in a border town as i say. and i never saw any russian soldiers or military equipment

crossing over the border i'm not lying i'm telling the truth. i have another cousin she's from the ukrainian city of. in the west of the country. and she supports the my down movement. i didn't want to argue or try to convince her she is wrong to do so. now we simply don't talk to each other we're divided by different views. but i know what i'm talking about when i say my town is being bombed just like skins. well i was there was my family was there oh you want to go home or do you want to stay in russia this. morning to you know i would like my children to stay here also to what i don't see any future for my children back in ukraine my daughter needs to get into college next year and i don't want her to live in fear you know i never thought of going back really you know. thank you so

much for this interview first sharing this with me and good luck with everything thank you and goodbye. as a new physician i swear by the hippocratic oath. to the best of my ability and judgment. i will prescribe for the good of my patients. i will not give deadly doses to anybody. or advise others to do so. i will never do her.

doctors of the dogs. on merit in the fine asshole moral. development and stop it only takes no demand for credit not going to get any benefit in life. and so. war is probably the most complex and difficult human activity. of all. locked up in the phenomenon of friendly fire probably extends back to the invention of gunpowder. kill

a bunch of people who don't know what they're up their families there are a us people. right now reading. this some of them shoots my brother in the leg not intentional because of it because it was night times four in the morning even the best given the mesh shoulders. are going to make mistakes does this whole idea of brotherhood an author and an end and camaraderie in this sense it was in this context that has absolutely no place. dramas that can't be ignored to. stories others refuse to notice. faces change the world lights now.

so picture of today's leaves no longer from around the globe. no please don't take fifty. more residential areas under fire in east ukraine where people say they are living in constant fear of shelling even though the president promised not to endanger civilians. you frayne forced to tap into long term gas storage facilities after being cut off by russia for its huge unpaid bills of the e.u. energy chief warning europe could be affected. back to iraq the top general in the u.s. says that a country may actually launch an assault on isis insurgents while saudi arabia sends thirty thousand troops to the border marking fears of an armed invasion.