welcome to politicking with larry king one of my favorite people the legendary newsman dan rather what does he expect from the president and the president's political opponents in the years ahead as you see parallels between the bridge controversy surrounding new jersey governor chris christie and the watergate scandal that brought down richard nixon plus how far would he go to get a story it's all next on politicking with larry king. on the politicking he's a bestselling author he was one hell of a white house correspondent one of the best anchors ever the long time ago the

c.b.s. evening news he currently is the host and managing editor of dan rather reports on access t.v. and i'm honored to have the legendary newsman and my friend then join me he's been with us many times in fact this man while i think we just see b s news would cover hurricanes for us on larry king live here in the lower number standing are very very well known for tree dan rather with the man or let's get right to it what do you make of the bridge gate well first of all it's an overstatement to call it bridge gate and no one has sort of all this serious but if you first phone about it this all started with watergate watergate became a shorthand word for a widespread criminal conspiracy led sort of say by the president of united states out of the oval office constitutional crisis of the country more than forty people sort of court time now those who know that story to be true of this widespread

criminal conspiracy tried always. to soften it by saying well these things happen all the time as the bridge gate is this gate and that gate there's only one gate and that's watergate good series now this bridge fiasco you can call it that as we head toward a probably better word see what i mean that there is one has to has to have some context for things in the watergate is in a whole different category now this kind of thing does happen in politics very often a widespread criminal conspiracy led by a president whom happened once a lifetime first of all i think this story has a long way to run. and what's happening to governor christie he's hunkered down like a mule in a hail storm just right now. i was going to ask you here dan rather is rushing toward christie's going through you just gave it to him well he's also admitted he would rather walk through a furnace in a gasoline suit and go through this. because partly is other is some of the

republican compatriots are turning on him like your friends in the desperate housewives turn on one another that's inevitable in these things happen i think is a long way to run we don't know how it's going to turn out i do not assume that it necessarily knocks christie out of the republican president a lot is going to find out that he knew about it more it could but it isn't here now we have to know more they've indicted the other call on people to testify or have someone turned or someone said he did know well that would be very bad news for christie indeed but you mention criminal charges that's one difference here watergate is this a widespread criminal conspiracy forty people convicted felons as best i can see there's no mall been broken here in the bridge gate thing now it may turn out very very best to getting one are they invest in they want one but as i understand it from criminal defense attorneys it is going to be a difficult case to make but we will see what is not a widespread criminal operation i think where the trouble is really going to come

down in the courts are civil cases people say listen i was put out this was unfair and i think that they'll have some cases you've covered politicians for so on the something that always amazes me and i defer to your knowledge of this whether christie knew or not let's take his top aide nixon was going to win that election what is the invading democratic headquarters looking for why you're going to win the election one mayor isn't supporting you so your staff close is of the. well you got it when you where are you were one whether governor christie knew about it or was involved or not we don't. no but at least his staff you have to say they were school in the high ninety's under dumb test this was really dumb to do it on all from all appearances with these be good people did was they parachuted into the valley of the stupid he didn't need to do is read the first he could get them a month from now a year of now two years and it was

a dumb thing to do but look who among us haven't done something dumb our lives and pettiness the jersey city governors big mayors elected people are all going to come down to help them he says it's not going to go as they cancel everybody coming from the state to help out the city why the big politicians major politicians get petty . a good understand of the local councilman but why a governor or a governor's top aide well because nobody's perfect that's number one secondly it depends on organizations take on their personality and character from the top and not every political organization is filled with revenge and that i'm pointing out the downfall of richard nixon was clearly it wasn't good enough for richard nixon to beat his opponents this is key it was the watergate thing it wasn't just good enough for him that beat his opponents he's want to destroy and that's the lion and you can say in a way that land where that land was made to determine how long this bridge

situation goes because it from all appearances they sought to destroy the mayor the democratic mayor they have supported together just reported listen i was going to discuss this later over there right now fox news channel president of into this roger ailes who's and now they've got a book coming out that really apparently really attacks him i haven't read it yet he was asked in an interview today the distinction between the news and opinionated program his exact reply was i grew up in the era when dan rather hated richard nixon he was a newsman but you know what his opinion was a reaction well first of all of a lot of the you hated things i never seen it just simply isn't true it isn't really really worth discussing with i'm respected and continue respect the office of the president i respected richard nixon and he came into office what is true if we know this from the tapes richard nixon hated dan rather and c.b.s. news that's a matter of record and roger ailes was and for all of the things he's accomplished

roger ailes was an operative for richard nixon use of an expected to say something like this and frankly i don't take it personally don't take it seriously do you agree with the think that the thought that fox news channel is a actual a part of the republican party. you know i'm pausing only because i want to give a thoughtful answer that. i understand that argument i think it goes too far which used to say i think ailes is considers himself still a part of the republican party i think and so far as he's able to do that he wants his channel to be that way but i don't want to indict everybody at fox news channel because i know some of the pros there who are pretty good i don't want to dance around your question but i do do think that roger ailes would say this about him he is a very good businessman he's very smart about television and he built a network when i for one wasn't at all sure he could do so and has he used to do benefit the republican party yes the record is very clear on that but is it

a sole operative in propaganda machine for the party other stop short of that right now or move to something more current expectations for obama in two thousand and fourteen what's going to happen in the house and the senate well if your knives goes many times the straight answer kind of question is i don't know what it's going to get with you but you know i've been around long enough to know that he who lives by the crystal ball learns to eat a lot of broken glass in iraq every even more than my share to talk about what's going to happen i would say at the present time we're talking here near the end of january in the election year i think the republicans keep control the house of representatives i would not be surprised to see it in games i'm seats in the house republicans keep control of the house in the senate the republicans will gain seats in the house and the senate but i don't think enough to get control of the senate is not going to be a good year for parag obama and the democrats in my judgment you is that a few months back that president obama's opponents politically want to cut his

heart out and throw his liver to the dogs politically where he is that still true even more true today it was when i started you think it's part racist. i do apart only because i know that people jump over them but it was great it is so venomous well here's a little bit i do want to make clear not everybody who disagrees with obama not nearly everybody not everybody in the republican party but your question was is some of it yes i think it's impossible to have the first president of color in the white house and not recognize that that some of the dislike for him and his policies of it is rooted in racism no question about it but not by no means all of it and let's acknowledge that president obama has made his own mistakes he hasn't operated a perfect presidency. so it gets complicated but the answer your question is some of the races of course as an american as a journalist what are your thoughts is snowden a hero or

a villain you know no human has that person is the most difficult question i had to try to answer these days i come out of i think he's neither a hero nor a villain at least not on the basis of what we know because we don't know the whole story yet or we know they really we don't believe no question about that but for example what i'm not did he get the job intending to be the leaker that he became or was he conscience stricken and he got the job it's on things like that we don't know but again i don't want to basle it but i think like most people i'm i'm a bit torn on the one that i think the information on the medium and long will it will be of value to society we stand a chance of being a better country because this information gets out in the short run i understand the irgun this is listen the country needs to be able to keep some secrets such as who in our spy apparatuses has contacts in pakistan and other places pose and

enjoys difficult to come down on it that i think he's neither a hero nor a villain i think those who say bring him back to this country let him. stand trial that's fine but it quickly gets in the question if you're going to put him on trial what about the head of the g.s.a. of what do you know the lawyers on the at the n.s.a. who didn't deliver to the congress what are your thoughts on the right to listen to phone calls of. domestic or foreign you know i don't want to go away with arnold ok denies that no i think in in twenty first century reality. oh that the government has to have a very constricted and very limited ability with proper safeguards built into it to listen to some calls what i'm old really opposed to is blanket listening to calls over and there is a system in place is we know i'm not saying the system is perfect let's post was

like this is to be used that you have a court where they're supposed to go to those court and the court is supposed to be a check and balance now some of the time they have been going to court other times it looks like the court may be called to fixes in but i tend i can subscribe to the theory that says the government under no circumstances can listen to no telephone calls to mostly not given the terrorist in burma which were uppity and rent how do you feel about and i greeks told me one hundred percent of what you said it's a dilemma but they've got to do what if you knew someone was going to do something or you had strong suspicions and you could prevent it you not for that yes and how would we judge any president who said well i could have known what you know what i understand that he better not to be right by the great dan rather coming up more right after this.

conflict. over one particular. that you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioning the cost to. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy correct albums. wrong. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across several we've been a hydrogen right hand full of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once that's my job mark it on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on. in the world we go beyond identifying the problem try a rational debate and a real discussion critical issues facing or if i ever feel ready to join the movement then welcome to it.

i'm abby martin the stories we cover here we're not going to hear any right other big story the hamster headlines from talkers a reason they don't want in denial about it aren't there are no rules that we should be completely out now let's break the set. oh you like me you want your comedy news with some t what's your comedy news to be a bear fisted no holds barred fight to the dad. but the truth vampire fighting into the necks of the corporate elite the billionaire freaks while they're going. well that's what you get with my new show but jack to the night. i marinate in the financial world. to see these developments cannot stop because it is very slowly taking on the demand for credit not going to get any economic benefit in life there are blue and there are busts.

dan rather the former anchor c b s evening news and of course with access t.v. dan i understand the president is no one from the administration or is the president and first lady going to be a little bit but we think. all things considered probably the right to call because well because there's so much going on in the soviet union including the persecution of gays and lesbians but there's only a part of it it wouldn't be very difficult for him to go in my judgment but i have no doubt it was a close call on his mind because after all the olympics with most of his in very special category and you try to lift above nation for that matter international politics but in russia at the present time just not possible. ok we have a situation this country at present is unpopular with congress on whose popular was

a hero in america. well it's a good question maybe united do a book where of all the heroes on i think there are a lot of heroes and i think the cop who walks the lonely beat in a tough neighborhood by himself and my hero i think the single mother with three kids is working four jobs trying to keep or. her family together is a her on their day to day heroes all over the country in terms of transformational political leaders pretty short supply right now and you look up and down the society but we go through these periods you know larry you know i've talked about the so many times before i'm so i'm an optimist by experience but nature i love this country with a deep abiding. love and i'm optimistic with a future i know there are going to go listen we're on the downhill slide going back side of the slope we're in the room on the standing there and we have no over

commanding heroes in our political life but you know what we'll get there we'll get there again i don't have any doubt about it great lawyer to friend of mine away there with better williams i asked him once you're not the muscle as it was just said of course i'm a pessimist unintelligible i thought. i didn't take the opposite view that i don't know that compare that i wanted you to compare the controversy over lara logan's now discredited sixty minutes report and the problems you had if your national guard service report on what your landlord larry but i want to make it very clear i don't want to add to c.b.s. news these problems are a local problem i know what if he was like to be in the vortex of those kind of controversies and i'm pulling for everybody at c.b.s. news and. virtually have all my life there is a great difference between their situation this is the one you mentioned and what we would do with the bush national guard story would see it clearly where our story our story was true you could argue in play you did that we reached that truth

through a flawed process and there were plenty of people that they knew the story was true but they couldn't stand it so they had to make it out to be false that's what happened to us he think our story was true did george bush's father use influence to keep him from going to be a nom getting him into national guard yes that's true. george w. bush there's no joint saying there's did he disappear from his natural born obligations that's a fact those things are true to our story was true we caught him only you can argue in preference to him that the process was not pristine but i'm going to call want to come back to i'm not walking the logans use i'm not walking sixty minutes shoes i'm no longer at c.b.s. on that they've got a lot to deal with this and i don't want to add to their problems you asked me the difference between that situation in which they have acknowledged that they had a problem witness all account i told me near the end of his life that he was disappointed. that an ordeal and he certainly felt when

they did the fiftieth anniversary of j.f.k.'s death and ten of airbrushed you out when you reported from dallas so many reports on that scene in that area and you feel if you finally you know what i like you any do you want to start of the crash was a great day i said you have his work and i love it and all it happened is that years of the daily runs i do i do think then. we need to see when it comes to history they can airbrush me out of the pictures they present when it comes to the history the news organizations in be trying to change history and the c.b.s. news history is whether they now like me or not like me or who they are doesn't you go through just this coming year and a verse routine i'm in square in which we were at the union square the civil rights movement which i covered. not to mention the kennedy assassination so to try to

change history and that's fairly serious what they do to me doesn't matter all right you've done a lot to get a story including i told you tried heroin back in one nine hundred sixty five right so you would cover that as a you would understand don't since i've tried pot i like potter effect i got a friend to smoke a because i thought i would start smoking again but part was i thought part of the part should be legal i've said that before always heroin or heroin to hold a court appearance thing. this is the scene is the houston police station in one nine hundred fifty five i'm covering the police plead heroin nobody really knew what heroin was my recollection is they had arrested some musicians it into town and they were talking about a trojan with heroin what is heroin i work in the radio stations or is it when you want to do the police say well we don't know we've never tried it so what would you do it for me this would not happen today and you can say it was a damn fool thing for me to do but this is what happened between us and what it was

like of the number one otherworldly is the best way i can describe it i can also say it gave me a three or four day headache afterward and i came out it was a month so i don't know what he what he sees in the stuff and i know i never want to touch it again and never did to katie couric on the internet we're on the internet. or you know it's a wallace where's it all going well where's the new words all going but it's part of the reality and going to be part of reality for a long time to come you know we went through in terms of journalism but. also the society we went through the print age of newspapers that gave way to the radio era radio era gave way to the television era now the television iran might have been used in a way to the internet era doesn't mean it's going to replace television more than television replaced radio but the internet is the future when anybody likes it or not now i have to think that overall in the mind the internet is a force for good information education edition for news as they have its problems

yes one of them being that with anonymity you can smear your neighbor or anybody else nobody can tell her that but nonetheless and if it isn't already true larry i think it's already true but if it isn't but truth now that most people get most of their news from the internet it soon will be particularly young people now that have said people don't we visit all under the age of forty other it's only will depend on newspapers by and large for most of the news noted and on television radio they go to the internet that's where it is yeah but the young they grow up and the old get older and leave us what happens to newspapers in twenty years they are around i think they'll be around the game having said i'm an optimist i understand the argument that they're finished i don't think so anymore than normal going to remember radio came in everybody's that was in newspapers or that is where they were vanished when television came in is that both radio and television if it is it doesn't work out that way i think newspapers will be around i think their content will be more it will be longer longer form it is now because people who

want longer form news reports and information go to newspapers you'll miss the old days of free networks and p.b.s. . sure do of course i do something will say that journalism we have probably for our news but the journalism was better than that there are no more rose now. i'm not sure that's true and i'm not sure on the best person to judge it because have to all you know i'm a i'm a child of the thirty's forty's fifty's sixty's and seventy's i do agree that edward r. murrow stands alone this is one of the problems i had with walter cronkite them i'm sorry for the way cronkite. was of a bible icon and a legend but marone was the founding strain developed twenty journals in the know it as we know it i don't think it a one of his matched moros the quality to sustain the quality of his

journalism but i'm not all right enough to say listen the golden age was back when i was doing it back in the sixty's and seventy's there are a lot of good journalism around the day in fact the three anchors at a.b.c. c.b.s. n.b.c. a very good one to a great all for my first rate first rate and the newscasts are first rate but they're not many people as many used to watching them well i have some of the newscast and i think over over adult beverage i think the three anchors would say they probably had to go through it because there is so sensitive they've always been interested to ratings and demographics but i don't think any either any one of the three network newscasts now are as hard or as hard news as the anchors would like them to believe but they'll have to speak speak for themselves did you run a tough ship and seen you the managing editor i was so with your orders cast there's anyone that anywhere would come down from above and say don't run those.

basically you know c.b.s. at that time i can't speak for you know the deal was i was an anchor and managing editor even years which meant i had to call in every story it was a collegial process i would ask a lot of other people's opinion but in the end i decided what went into broadcast and what didn't now after the broadcast was over i was accountable plenty of times i got hauled into the news division president's office and said then what the hell do you think you do if you try to try this thing into the ditch but that's the way it worked then only they were only two occasions in the twenty four years and it was an anchor managing editor of the even years that a news division president. came anywhere close to commanding that we do something coverage one was the newer member this case a broader point for a second congressman. condit member there he the. killing of girl in the lantern gary renard it very condit everybody else it was august news was late

everybody was running with one story i didn't want to run with it and finally the news division president in effect that then you got to run something on this and i said it's her journalism the words she said you got to and so but by and large c.b.s. when i was there i got to make the calls on the evening news but i was accountable it was over you know i didn't like all perfectly all the others when did you ever come close to leaving c.b.s. of your own militia going to another network you know ted turner and well a lot of first let me correct that. in my heart of hearts you know but there were times when i did carefully consider it. one when when roone arledge zero tried to get me to come to a.b.c. news in one thousand eight hundred seventy nine and eighty or it was a powerful push where i really went there and they've you know well if you know what i mean and then. around the two thousand i want to say in one thousand nine hundred ninety two thousand ted turner. came with an offer and quite honestly i've

always wanted to work for ted i admired him from the last really odd but those two times i considered but each time over money was better elsewhere and one could argue might have been better financially to go you know somewhere i've seen be as leaders tend to go my parents i understood them and i had the kind of loyalty and also not just loyalty but i thought it was the best place in the world for electronic journals to work no regrets on sure you always have regrets you know might or could've should've done this that it was all captured on you know i love reporting in years as with teaching go i have a patient who is not of god i have a lot of walls larry many of which you know what many of which have been exposed over the years i have a lot of wounds someone's overinflated some of them still open wounds but i think even people who disagree with me were pope like me for a reason that would be this have

a passion for covering years always have your say working for me going is that i should i love to get out on the story and big stories even better and the been out front to be in the really big story. there's nothing my thing unique kind of got it wakes up and says what's going to happen today absolutely on my feet at the floor every morning i say where's the still. all this thanks to dan rather for joining me on the politicking today for my views out there i want to hear from you join the conversation on my facebook page and share your thoughts on twitter by tweeting at king's things and using the politicking hash tag that's all for this week's politicking you've got a surprise guest for you next week don't go away. i know c.n.n.

m s n b c news have taken some knocks lightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's close and for the truth from the might think. it's because one call attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on we're going to get it. at our team we have a different price. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not have. you got a sense of the jokes i will hand over the stuff that i've got to.