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shevardnadze what do you do when war robs you of your childhood my guest today lost his mother in a fighting in sudan and became a soldier at the age of seven the kindness of strangers and music helped him overcome his childhood in extreme violence manual job is now a wall famous hip hop artist and he is here today to share his extraordinary story with us. there are three hundred thousand child soldiers in the world most of them for the. drug war deprived of families forced to kill. children good soldiers how does one escape such a fate and what happens if they do. emanuel joel child soldier turned hip hop artists welcome it's great to have you on our show today i just want to go back

and remind our viewers where you started out you were only about seven years old when your mother was killed and the second sudanese civil war then you became a child soldier and were told that a k forty seven would be your only parent that it would be taking care of you from now on this is how you really felt that your life depended on this weapon to survive. well there some more so when you're in a training center you actually train to be told the gun is your father and your mother so your life depend on on it and saw. it's a it's a situation where people get transform and get brainwashed to. to do whatever i do and and that you're being trained to focus so the cause become more powerful than you believe in because you're tall even if your father is again is this cause you can kill him. now another thing that you have said is that the children who joined

the rebels they wanted to revenge did you at that age understand what revenge was. well i remember stun. what to eventual us then but now i can't put it into the words i was really angry as a kid you see when you lost everything you own and. everything that is your world disappear in front of you then your toe your mother is gone and then because the war itself different people experience it differently and now when you're told that people are destroying your home they're in such a such a place and you're given a description you don't need to think twice so you want to act out of their motions at that moment. but going to war and becoming a soldier i just wonder what it's like for a kid after talk to a man who joined the army in war to you at the age of twelve i've just talked to him recently now what he was telling me is that for him it was never an adventure

and a thrill more than anything else what was it like for you was it again oh well least at first. well children don't or you only die once so you kind of live don't understand or you don't know when you die it. so a death moment you're taken by adrenaline you want to know what's going on but for me my desire and i wanted to kill as many muslims and not obsess forcible this was one second i wanted a bike. well is that children don't know that he only die once and that's because they're actually fearless state don't know where it's about but did you ever fear that you were going to be killed did you think about that. yes sometimes you know. the thing that i didn't warn was i didn't want to get shot in my eye on my leg broken i actually prefer to die than to be injured because i've seen people

who have been injured how they cry and so in your like a kid you know it's like in your head you choose where would i be shot and so on of the show where this meat will not break you want to bomb not my i know from my leg so you for do you know that's how you think as a child in the real war ended up in the bullet. whichever police it's a much it doesn't care where to shoot have you ever been one dead i've been wounded differently but not. well this one thing he said that actually mark me as just wanting a bicycle now when the army was recruiting q did they give you any incentives did they tell you like if you take a gun and kill people that will give you something in return for example a bicycle or were you just doing it for free were you getting any it weren't whatsoever for what you were doing. you know those no awards as such like somebody

being paid for doing something you know the country has been destroyed people are fighting for their survival so and you could see from the idols that there's something you know when you go to a house and you attack the people in the house and that children they'll try to join in fighting but now this is another villages this is like the whole community this is all tribe uniting again it's a force that want to wipe them out as we do not know that they want to wipe us out we don't know what's was the reason for the war in fact when when the war happened i got the world was ending because my mother here tells me they were all the children of god and one day the world is going to end and people are going to turn a niche up and so you look at it as a child you just get confused with different messages and so i didn't really understand what was going on but now i have an idea of what actually was happening

. when you were at the camp what were you told where he told why you were fighting where you trained at all or you were just given guns and told go and shit i'm sure you were trained in the come it was a difficult trainings six straight months. first time warner stepping in the cam it was a violent end from so were they on bush to us and all the beaten so people were running you drop your back yard shooter forget yourself so it's like a separate ing from being loving w when we're coming we're singing songs holding hands with this guys are hiding in the bush and they just started whipping us bitten and i was really angry that time i said the first person i was shoot when i finished training would be my trainer or look for the people of beating us because you don't understand why they just beating you for no reason. so those scaring you

sit down get out you look behind someone to slap your kick you for no reason you can't talk you can do anything it was an exciting to be trained you was tariff on because i'm sure and even died in the training. did you ever go back to see your trainers after you've graduated and never. i can't even remember any of them now but at mile tell me a little bit about this fighting itself were there actual battles or were there are more like raids those bottles who do pan where. how your i want to explain it so there's different grades this being invaded where you are on this when you're tekken going to a bottle school but did the other side also use children soldiers yes sometimes they do you know they depend of the government was more of them aren't

they hard child soldiers only in the malicious no malicious. but in their are chill on in behalf of that we'll train soldiers that fight because they're getting paid. they have a salary. you know i spoke to a british mercenary who also fought in africa when he was younger salman man i don't know if heard of them and he told me that he viewed child soldiers just like any other soldiers when you were fighting did you feel your enemies or like just normal soldiers so you the same way despite your age well you're just trained to fight if it's the same enemy that's your enemy in fact child soldiers are the worst they're very sensitive you know they come and the reason why they like using child soldiers is because. they don't have plans. i don't have children so they don't know our idea of the feature so they can actually scream and

go forward and mostly they're very brave sometimes the worst thing is if they really get terrified it's hard to convince them to to fight. do you remember the first time you killed someone. i won't say like i actually did one not remember me killing somebody myself but i was in an octave situation where we did more justice or the other people just tell you hey it was your bullet that shot the person. did you think about what was going on at that moment i was just like too much of an adrenaline rush and you had no time to stop and analyze it get scared before you want to go to toilet several times your throat to dry you know your stomach your body scheck's you know so many things happen so many thing goes

on in your head at that moment you go silent you want in the world you know sometimes like your legs can move but after the battle begins you know the rhythm of the gun itself it's it goes with the flow it takes you over. now to the battlefields are musical you know when there is war it's very musical when the millionaires knock on them. it's like that sounds of the guns it's like they flow the reason especially if you're very far or you have very sometime your gun even you can't even hear the sound of your gun you know so maybe when it's shocking you know when you're into it so much you know and then the other thing is when what the other experience is when you're not in the battlefield then you're sleeping in other people are fighting it's like you know when the bullets to stop. because this dark dark dark moment that act of duck duck duck got

a cocker roam so it's it's almost like there's a beat the blue and then you just see a boom the big sound it's like a bass so you just warn the explosion to continue in the sounds but is this something that you actually wherein you and that help junior music later on that that riff makes sounds and the feeling of the rhythm that you experienced during the war you know actually i became i'm doing what i'm doing not because i planned it i think it's something that process and it's accidental it was unplanned. emanuel we are going to take a short break right now now when we come back we're going to continue to talk to my knowledge out of a hip hop star right now who grew up as a child soldier in sudan and we'll talk more about how he escaped from the war and how he became a pop singer stay with us. and

also give your fellow soldier one day into a new you're not a good person they can actually shoot you because they don't want to die. or it's really nice and they like to take i'm not sure what happened to the kids who would refuse to take part in training in fighting. they get punished or if you try to skip i'm going to see you're from remember know where you're from members are and they're going to cars from your home now for you i mean it will be fair to say that you yourself chose to stop what was the turning point

when you gave the soldiers camp how did you manage that well actually i didn't plan an escape it was planned by others and i just joined them and it was a difficult journey because on the way a lot of people died. one of my friend was dying and come you will is i'm started i was tempted to eat my friend actually because my senses change and those one of the lowest points and then i arrived in place called the wort where i was rescued by british aid worker or smuggled me to kenya well we're going to get to in a second but i just really want to know what was that turning point that made you escaped made you say to yourself that say i need to go yeah. because i'm glad and so even when i ask one of the guys say to him we've been planning it for a while we can tell you because you have a big mouth and you're going to get us in trouble so it's because i ended up going

with them i realize that we're skipping late on because i thought it's just a normal way of going to one place where we're going to deliver. on the nations our support or check our people injured or just going for patrol somewhere so he didn't know you were going to walk literally a class the whole country. and you said some of you people who were actually moving with you died how did you manage to survive. well this was difficult i actually i probably knew after six hours of examining us when i was able to know we actually description so i survived waiting on snails vultures anything that we could find in the generally does we started to eat the roots of the trees the plantation other people got poisoned was a difficult difficult journey also d.-i dresch and people died of durations so

i'll say that i was lucky that i survived but i kept myself positive that tomorrow's going to come where between two to four hundred young people mix with other girls and only sixteen people survive the journey. and now we come to emma keane a british aid worker who actually saved you how did you come across or and most importantly why did you trust her. well what happened is ended up in a place called a watch. and she and her friend decided to design me and then promising to take me to school and i always wanted to go to school but in my mommy's i had a different plan and i said i'm going to go to this lady's country and go to school join me become a pilot and still a plane and come back toward that's what i had in my head but everything changed later so it was all about the bicycle school and an airplane. it.

you know in your train into that as a child so it took a while a long of transformation. well unfortunately am i died soon after that in a car crash and there was no one else to take care of you what did you do after that. i was lucky our family members took it and that's different people can possibly and life became really difficult so this is where the music came and took an opportunity and this is where i was able to to heal myself because i used to have a lot of night mandela's and focus some time and get kicked out of school so music became the painkiller and a third of the for me at that time and then i happened to me kenyan woman called mrs moon washing me help me out in my process when i became a musician size for can more focus and doing what i'm doing up to now you also talk

a lot about the feeling of guilt that you experience and other interviewees but looking back do you really have a choice and done the adults that got you involved there more responsibility well sometimes when you see so much problems happen and you see everybody's suffering. it's hard to actually blame dagoes because they're done you see everything is happening so and you all know well all in it together we're in desborough it we're dying all together we mass walk together try to get us out of it that's the mind concept. the only time i can really get angry and feel betrayed is actually what is happening in south sudan when the very people who say they are fighting for an independent to swallow the freedom that we we we suffered for so us only if things that make you really feel betrayed because now you had

a government that want to stay in power and the testing people who are. founding fathers of the organization that wanted to transform the country to be accountable and transparent and the president decided to stick there try to find an opportunity to terminate his political open another country's and civil war he just a couple days ago with the police in. the prison guards dress in uniform in remove the uniform and entered a un compound to kill women and children will happen to be under the guiding of the un. now you see like this hatred is bitterness fighting now because of no targeting killing the killing isn't a cynic lie. no rag never meant kill one ethnic group the

rebels go and and some of them were not control goes into other events so it's terrifying. but emanuel thankfully right now you are a very successful hip hop artist and your path your rap is political it's all about sending a message out there you sing about peace using people to speak up for their rights najee theel your message is getting across i mean i know that it has landed you in trouble before now for example last september when you went back to south sudan you were brutally beaten by police. here the voices going so the police beat me because they know the strengths of my voice so they're trying to silence me and later on when they don't like activists they do move their eyes and put them in the box and drop them in the aisle and so so they're trying to scam in order to talk but i didn't keep quiet i kept doing my thing because i know who i am in this

dispute will voice you know and i'm pushing for justice and equality for freedom. for everybody through the music is creating awareness so what i do is mostly for conscious a weapon in. getting people to understand they have the power to actually change things not the government. emanuel sank you so much for this mass mariah saying inside into a life child soldier i wish you all the best in getting your voice across the whole world and to everyone and to stop being a child soldier being recruited in the future thanks a lot for this interview we're talking to a man old jar forward child soldier and world famous rapper right now we're talking about the horrors of being a child soldier and how it could be stopped thanks for being less the same for sophie and co we'll see you next time.

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