when it was confirmed by russia ukraine denied at the time it was firing any rockets and the plane was heading from tel aviv viable guerrier to the russian city of novosibirsk there were seventy eight people on board so let's round up the details as we have the now on our breaking news story this hour a malaysian boeing seven seven seven airliner is reported to have crashed in ukraine's east where the military is battling against local self-defense units now apparently the aircraft was traveling from amsterdam and disappeared from radar sixty kilometers away from the russian border according to the manifest two hundred eighty passengers are on board fifteen crew members and very sadly we are getting information from ukraine's security services the presumption from them is that all of the people on board are dead we have had eyewitness reports again these are

unconfirmed but they do seem to corroborate the information we're getting from of the sources eyewitness reports unverified saying that they have seen parts of the plane wreckage on the ground as well as bodies and malaysian airlines who originally claimed to have no information on any possible plane missing they have since sent out an official tweet confirming they had indeed lost contact with one of their planes in that region of east ukraine. are going to be speaking to one of our correspondents union an ill interest a mobile first of all let's go back to renegotiate because she's located by russia ukraine border and has been bringing us information from the ground as it's been

coming through rena. yes yes indeed of course i'm looking at the story of course as . the pivotal point is that thing plane has gone down near the town of structure or school which was the site of some of the most intense fighting between the forces going in there literally and now we're hearing that ukrainian military forces are actually sending a special division to within the arctic region. assumingly in connection with the incident at the same time president bush has already said that that ukrainian forces have nothing to do with that of course the question remains what exactly happened why did why did the plane go down as we know at this point that the representatives of the people's republic have said that they have nothing to do with this that they simply don't have any weapons capable of shooting down a seven seven seven traveling. in the air looking at. going seventy seven almost three hundred people two hundred ninety five on board.

i think you know i seem to be losing the connection with you. no no we've still got you. talking all right i'm very sorry can i think your husband has been cast you know we're also hearing from eyewitnesses that they need to be fighting finding debris and body parts all that of course cannot be confirmed at this point so as we're talking about is. not a hundred not a hundred percent chance that the plane has gone down where i can tell you that actually we were traveling not far from the border between russia and ukraine at the very time. link i so i did see some black smoke in the very very far distance and that of course the race in question but i cannot of course confirm with any certainty that indeed it was the smoke from the plane crash there. so this is

obviously a story that is starting to. international tragic turn the events that are happening in the southeast of ukraine obviously an area already hit much much bloodshed and very recently. because of the confrontation that we are seeing between the forces and the. forces on the ground. on the ground of. russia ukraine border thanks so much for that. just to bring it on background information on unfortunately similar in some ways incident back in october of two thousand and one was when assad passenger jets exploded over the black sea according to the aviation agency investigation on that occasion it was downed by an. launch of a surface to air missile from ukraine. by russia although ukraine denies it was firing any rockets at the top of the plane was heading from tel aviv. to the

russian city of nova seventy eight people that particular flight. now earlier this year another malaysian airlines flight when missing after leaving kuala lumpur for beijing now you remember this i'm sure it lost contact with air traffic control on march the eighth the company reported the aircraft missing a massive world wide search began for that jet and as yet no traces ever being found of it in going operation to locate that plane is currently centered hundreds of kilometers off the eastern coast of australia so potentially what we're looking at here is another tragedy for malaysian airlines with a potentially large scale loss of life let's bring you the latest now it's

a developing story more information coming in every minute thanks for staying with us here on r.t. to get the latest than it is that a malaysia airlines boeing seven seven seven has crashed in ukraine cease these are the reports that we're getting that is a region where the military is battling against local self-defense units the aircraft had been on route from amsterdam it disappeared from radar systems sixty kilometers from the russia ukraine border the manifest says that there were two hundred eighty passengers on board in addition to fifteen crew members and very sadly according to the information that we're getting from ukraine security services unconfirmed but this is the information we're getting the presumption is at this point that all of those people on board. are presumed to have died we're not expecting at this stage with the information we're getting there to be any survivors and just to recap the kind of timeline as this story broke because at first we were getting reports from russian and ukrainian media sources that there'd

been a plane had crashed in eastern ukraine at first malaysian airlines had no information on this data since changed because they have since given out an official tweet confirming that they have lost contact nothing beyond that but they have lost contact with one of their planes and it was indeed in this region of ukraine. according to the information indeed we believe there were two hundred people on board passengers that is in addition to fifteen crew members now self-defense forces in eastern ukraine it's obvious to people are going to join the dots here and assume that this is connected with the internal disputes in ukraine self-defense forces though they have denied any involvement whatsoever in the crash and i can also bring you the very latest information and this is coming from from kiev and it is that president poroshenko said that ukraine forces were not involved in any possible crash of an airline. we have the

information suggesting that does indeed have surface to air missile defense systems in this area no connection with a possible crash but president poroshenko saying that they would definitely not involve there's no connection to their forces let's go back now to renegotiate by the ukraine russia border if you know what more can you tell us. indeed i would say it's a place of some very intense fighting in recent days and the good news of this plane of course the tragic as they are actually second in span of about twelve hours concerning at a point that has gone down in the first instance or we've heard accusations coming from kiev who were saying that russia is responsible for shooting down their gets their fighter jet as soon twenty five in fact it was this type of jets as you twenty five that were indeed responsible for the bombing the town of succulents in

the den that's present which which is the place near which the mh seventeen seems to have gone down so this is something that we can this is just one bit of the detail because russia has already denied any allegations coming from kiev they call russian officials to call those ridiculous preposterous and they have said that ukraine ukrainian officials the do have this step because the country before believing russia point sensually everything that happens that we think that that happened with or in ukraine however in this instance in the instance when with as few twenty five the pilot has injected himself safely when we're talking about m.h. seventeen allays and malaysian aircraft unfortunately we could be looking at almost three hundred people who are dead at this point of course they're presumed dead there's no official confirmation whatsoever that we in fact the malaysian muslim religion airline officials themselves have only recently said that they have lost connection up until a certain point they were saying that they have no information on the grass at all

or an any of their planes missing of course now they have changed their tune but we are hearing also as we have said earlier about the earlier we're hearing reports from eyewitnesses school or in the area they seem to have found some debris and some bodies even presumably from the plane crash again no independent confirmation on these reports whatsoever personally i can tell you that i was traveling that just near the thing in russia's border. about the time of the crash i did see some remnants of the black smoke billowing in the far far distance. where the next. region is but honestly we have seen so much fighting in recent days here near the border sometimes on the border sometimes across the border that really we every time you see during smoke you cannot. see what it is it's kind of the calm of something that people here are accustomed to unfortunately but in a bigger again we're looking at a conference in cranes that that is becoming more and more tragic and now it has

this international ngo on it as well of course because we're talking about a passenger plane where you are ninety five people all of whom at this point are presumed dead but that is the presumption made by the ukrainian security services because our correspondent here in english joining us is the latest from the ukraine russia border now i believe that we can speak to an aviation expert phil phil but first of all but just just to introduce my colleague in an analysis coming you were supposed to actually take over for me now but of course this is such a big story and it's looking like i recently tragic story i think will stay together on this one and just trying to piece together exactly what's happening but . for the studio well we should maybe just go to the back of what we know at the moment just give an overview of what's occurring we do know that the boeing seven seven seven was on route from amsterdam to kuala lumpur that's fact as we know it

and that's been confirmed by malaysian airlines as it stands we're also giving details. that we know that petro poroshenko the ukrainian president has also confirmed or he has said at the very least his forces had nothing to do with the crash we cannot confirm of course at this stage as happens so soon at what occurred we do know that two hundred eighty five passengers and fifteen crew members were on board a boeing seven seven seven it was a malaysian airlines plane we know that it has gone down to this crash we don't know how it crashed over east ukraine but it was flying over ukrainian soil after stage. so not believe we can actually speak to a few who is being following the story as best we can as well we're going to try and talk to him. now alexey. what what do we know what this stage because

it's happened soon we're trying to piece together the details of what occurred on a credible a point all fat people on board if it was of this officer of the scale what do we know. well so far lots of information coming in most of it is not really confirmed we do know and it is confound by the malaysian airlines that they lost contact with the aircraft it is lost somewhere around the territory of ukraine as you mentioned we've heard both from the from the self-defense groups operating in the saying that they would they were not responsible for what seems to be potentially the plane being shot down the same sentiment coming from a key a from the ukrainian president who said that ukrainian army had nothing to do with this plane with this plane going down if it was presumably shot by a ground to air missile but let's go back thirteen years ago to two thousand and

one when a russian airplane from the siberian airways was. flying above really territory ukraine above the black sea and it was shot down by a ukrainian missile this was confirmed by the investigators of the international committee of the russian experts and investigators at the same time when that plane was hovering above the territory of ukraine at the same heights presumably as this malaysian jet this time eleven kilometers the ukrainian. forces were having a military drill in the crimea and what is very peculiar about that story seventy eight people dead sixty six passengers and twelve crew members on that flight from the from israel from tel aviv to siberia to novosibirsk the crania authorities still still refused to take any responsibility for that and. some three years ago

there was another court case it was a in fact a whole string of court cases in ukraine and the other final court case ruled that the investigation of the international aviation committee was inconclusive and it proves no guilt of the ukrainian armed forces of course the happenings off today and the happenings of thirteen years ago have little in common the times are of course different but again again we have to remember that is not the first time that a passenger jet with many people on board goes down above the territory of ukraine next year a share ski getting us up to date with background as well find cue for the. ok i think we can actually speak to another of our correspondents now peter all of it we're going to try and look at this situation from seven different angles and get the information. to add to that we've already accumulated. on a date there is piece of all of a piece what more can you tell us who kind of piecing the story together as we get

it what more can you add for us. well the news is air filtering out here across europe this flight obviously originating from amsterdam and we still don't know the makeup of the nationalities of those on board although there have been some reports coming out that one is that when a russians on board the flight we still don't know exactly who was on the plane we know has gone down over the ukraine and we have heard that the ukrainian authorities say they're going to launch a commission to investigate exactly how this happened how this if you try to flee from. yes what we what we do what we do know is what we've been telling you that this boeing seven seven seven with two hundred ninety five people on board has gone down over eastern ukraine near to the to the city of. ask. everybody on board has been killed we've heard from the. the opposition forces that have been

fighting in that area they say they're not involved in this in the ukrainian government in kiev also denied any involvement but the fact that this plane was flying so high and this since it's flying at ten kilometers of altitude and that. it seems well it's been claimed that it's been hit by a missile that would have to have come from an advanced until aircraft system in order for that to have taken place but yes as the news comes out here in europe we started to see real messages of shock and dismay people trying to find out who was on that flight from amsterdam to kuala lumpur and trying to establish just just what went on and how this tragedy took place ok peter all of the reporting for us there thank you. just to bring you a reminder now very latest on our breaking story which is that a malaysia airlines boeing seven seven seven reports of crashed in ukraine's east

this is where the military was battling against local self-defense units the aircraft had been as we just heard on route from amsterdam when it disappeared from radar systems sixty kilometers from the russian border the number of passengers is believed to be two hundred eighty in addition to fifteen crew members and they according to create security service or services are presumed to be dead there have been eyewitness reports this haven't yet been verified which would add to the unfortunately the sense suspicion that could in fact be the case now malaysian airlines have confirmed in a tweet a short time ago that they lost contact with flight m.h. seventeen that's all the information we've heard from them but they've confirmed that it lost contact with the plane in that region now i mentioned earlier obviously this is a conflict area battles taking place between kiev forces and the

self-defense forces in the region now we know the self-defense forces they have denied any involvement in this incident we've also heard from president petro poroshenko he's denied any official ukrainian involvement what the has also been know is reports coming through now they are coming from the don't yet gregan which is the area we're talking about and the reports are that yes the day surface to air missile defense systems were moved into this area this is yet to be confirmed by the authorities in kiev no official confirmation as yet but those are reports that are coming through but as it stands both sides are denying any involvement at all in the grounding of this boeing seven seven seven which as time passes is looking increasingly likely that this was

a large scale tragedy. let's just remind you of an incident that took place back in october two thousand and one some similarities there this was a siberia airlines passenger jet that exploded above the black sea according to the aviation agency investigation on that occasion that plane was downed by an accidental launch or of a surface to air missile from ukraine that was confirmed by russia or ukraine denied that it was firing any rockets at the time the plane was heading from tel aviv viable garia on route to the russian city of novosibirsk and on that occasion seventy eight people were on board also earlier this year i'm sure you remember this another malaysian airlines flight but went missing after leaving kuala lumpur for beijing and it lost contact with air traffic control on march the eighth now the company reported the aircraft missing a massive willed wide search then began for that jet and as of yet no trace of it

has been found the ongoing operation to locate the aircraft is currently centered hundreds of kilometers off the eastern coast of australia. just welcome you know neal to the studio in very unfortunate circumstances. but you're getting information is indeed i am and we're pulling together our correspondents on the ground just to try and get more information from each side of this developing on the thing is as well that we're getting information is showing disparages as well because we can't say for certain and many people have died for certain or have been i've not heard many people were on board we've got some information from interfax ukraine who say that. all two hundred ninety five people on board have being killed they are quoting ukrainian tear your ministry official

saying that but we're also hearing off the words two hundred ninety people on board so we're just waiting to confirm any details when we get it we're going to try and i think peter all over who has been keeping an eye on things as well information coming from from all different types of sources peter can you hear me. yes i can peter what's happening as far as we know we are getting drips and drabs of information coming in we can't confirm anything at the moment where we're getting different quotes what do you know where you are. well what i'm looking at right now is a statement it's just been released by the the malaysian prime minister saying that he's shocked by the reports that have a starting to come out and we're also we've been seeing some what appear to be the first pictures from on the ground where this plane has gone down some of those are

graphic they're appearing on on social media sites and online news organizations we certainly wouldn't be able to broadcast any of those there on on r.t. on television it would be really quite graphic images that we're seeing but yes as the information is coming through here in europe we're hearing of people being distraught in saddam where where the plane originated from here in germany around on the streets in berlin people in cafes getting the information from cell phones and some very shocked reactions here that that i saw while i was making my way to the studio here but yes what we do know is for a fact that this boeing seven seven seven has gone down in the east of ukraine with two hundred ninety five people on board some of the reports we are hearing is that they are saying that all of those people have tragically died in this in this horrible situation the plane was on route to kuala lumpur to the malaysian air for

airlines plane that's what we've heard from the malaysian prime minister expressing his shock. for the from the kiev government side president poroshenko has said that his side had nothing to do with this we've also heard similar denials from self defense force leaders in the in the east of the country this has been the scene of some really bitter and horrific fighting of late. and both sides have tonight in fact one of the the leaders from one of the self-defense organizations has given a statement to the reuters news agency pointing the finger. just in the last few moments pointing the finger directly at kiev for this involvement we did hear rumors that heavy aircraft. installations have been moved into this particular area as i say it's an area that has seen quite fierce fighting but at the moment we really can only tell you what one side is saying what the source is

a saying what it's this is really something that is developing quickly it is of course a huge huge tragedy. as it seems it turns out that all two hundred ninety five on board that flight have died have been killed in this incident the kiev government has said that they're going to launch an investigation that's going to be underway very shortly into trying to work out exactly what went on but for now we're hearing just a multitude of reports coming out constantly. coming out constantly this about what's going on one way or the other with regards to this incident in with the plane crashing in the east of ukraine ok i was peter all over giving us the date there one thing to note as well as i keep seeing we're getting information coming in from different sources we're hearing from interfax russia that separatist rebels in east ukraine deny any involvement that is what we're hearing at the moment while we try and verify that and get more information going to try and talk to alexey jarosz if

ski who can give more bach try and indeed on what we're seeing what we're hearing alexey we're we've got no concrete information what can you tell us. well as has been mentioned already by peter and you were there's no concrete information we're only getting conflicting reports statements from both sides of this ongoing fighting in the east of ukraine but there is one absolutely concrete thing and it happened thirteen years ago suggesting that it's not the first time that a passenger jet with many people on board crashes in the territory. of ukraine in two thousand and eleven in october a russian siberia airlines jet now known as s seven airlines was flying from tel aviv to siberia and it was accidentally as it's been claimed by the ukrainian authorities hit by miss sile a ground to air missile because at that time the ukrainian army was conducting

a drill in the crimea and they claim that this rocket accidentally hit the plane with a jet at the same altitude at the same height at which the malaysian jet which now . which now fell in east of ukraine was reportedly flying at the round eleven kilometers above sea level and the jets of the russian jets fell into the ocean seventy eight people on board were killed only fourteen bodies were recovered but one particular thing about that incident is that for a very long time for more than a decade ukraine has been. reluctant to admit it is at fault it was at fault i remember i do remember a court in twenty eleven in kiev which ruled that the investigation by the international aviation committee by the russian investigators and international investigators was inconclusive it's only lead bit later that the key for george is actually admitted that the ukrainian army was to blame for that incident but still

ruled it as an accidental bloss the ground to air rocket of course the times were different back then it's a different situation right now in ukraine itself in the world but still we have to rule we have to remind that this is not the first time again that a passenger jet crashed in the territory of ukraine leading to mass casualties of course we have to wait for more details whether this plane was actually shot down and why the some of the sides of this conflict were involved in shooting down that passenger jet stream we simply come for a fight out at the moment when information on bach growing to this. what could be a terrific incident thank you very much. ok spring you reminded of the details as we've got them so far on this hour's breaking news story a malaysian airlines boeing seven seven seven has crashed in ukraine's east where the military is battling against local self-defense units the aircraft had been on

route from the dam and disappeared from radar systems sixty kilometers from the russia ukraine border all two hundred eighty passengers in addition to the fifteen crew members at this point this is a must stress this is still to be verified they are presumed to be dead that is according to the information we're getting from ukraine security service in addition to unverified eyewitness reports on the ground a malaysian airlines first they had no information on this but they have since in the last half hour confirmed in a tweet that they have indeed lost contact with flight m.h. seventy that it was indeed in that region. and that is the information as we have it. now i think that we can hear from an aviation expert this might be via a translation i believe we have a russian.