of the plane two hundred ninety feet ninety five people were on board presumed dead but we are simply waiting confirmation as to what occurred we're seeing pictures of plumes of smoke we're seeing the actual wreckage we believe that this is what it is of this boeing seven seventy seven malaysian airline and as we said eyewitness reports of bodies on the ground it's getting hard now to refute i think what it appears that we're seeing and let's just take one more listen to these eyewitnesses because i mean these are the most credible sources information we're getting at this point from people on the ground it's certainly the closest anybody this incident to take a listen. to what we're going to. get my brother is right there at the moment. when you there are a lot of people. on the field. tickets

from malaysia to. food security around everybody's strongmen press because there are lots of people scattered there is dead bodies there are impossible to count brother says that there are lots of people there. that wasn't the only eyewitness we heard from ivan the pictures are quite incredible let's see can we hear from another person who was near the scene on the russian ukraine border when this plane came down. but if you haven't you grab a bucket of next to the village of grabber right now the scenery is truly shocking a civilian aircraft you can see dead bodies lying around. and so smoking it is easy to tell this was a civilian aircraft so you can see lots of passports. belonging to nationals of malaysia and. the netherlands the aircraft broke up into lots of pieces which fell down within a perimeter of some five hundred meters to

a kilometer very much interested according to police criminy information coming from militias that the. the aircraft was brought down by a missile or presumably much of it coming from the positions of the ukrainian military this information will be very fired it could be that the aircraft was shot down by ukrainian air defenses i saw passports myself just now i am at the scene of the of the crash right now it hasn't been sealed off right now if i may have just arrived the debris still smoking and you can see it with your own eyes according to preliminary information this could be. air defenses because the armaments that the militias possess are not enough to shoot down an airplane from the height of ten thousand meters above ground. ok we cannot go live i believe to richard

bloom a vehicle and security expert from embry riddle aeronautical university thanks indeed for joining us this hour now it's not the first time a malaysia airlines plane has crashed this year what's their safety record like well i think we have to be careful about of talking about malaysian aviation in general i'll go into catastrophic events in the last year or maybe a statistical anomaly my opinion would be certainly not the best certainly not the worst but it can certainly be modifications in fact i think maybe a little little information allowed to suggest but what's happened in the last few hours a link to what happened months ago would be bhushan in a clean up the sort of. and richard given that the that we know that this this huge military operation taking place and in this region of ukraine forces fighting it's the self-defense forces is it normal for

a flight to be actually going over that kind of conflict area does it surprise you to hear about that. well at least from where i am in the united states of america and with the people i speak with the research i do the data sources analyzed i view what's happening in southeastern ukraine right now in the eastern part of ukraine it's pretty much of a war zone the big attacks on military transport aircraft on at least one fighter jet and then we have the commercial aircraft i know there are differences of opinion about what happened in each of these cases but from a commercial aviation going at you even if you have legitimate authority to fly through that area i think it would show a lack of prudence to do so right now now the malaysian defense minister says there's no information on why it crashed that's what we heard in the past hour or so but we have seen as a kind of being shot down from the distance in the sky how likely is that well i

think the issue is is that likely certainly it's likely with more of difficulty more complicated to talk about is who is responsible again from the information i had up there all kinds of what we call cause all attributions going on is the russian military or paramilitary is what are what are often called the ukrainian rebels is that some kind of calculation a miscalculation a provocation from the forces controlled from of all kinds of stories of being floated about right now and what the enough data i think the truth will come out. richard i'm sure you understand it very very politically sensitive situation and volatile with the hostilities still ongoing which kind of makes time the essence here now typically when you get a disaster of this proportion which seems to be on a lot scale we've seen some pictures that we believe to be of the debris and with it when sick ounce of of the casualties how long would you expect any kind of

investigation to take to try and ascertain exactly what happened well certain kinds of investigations are already going on in terms of the countries and other organizations that help the rooms the valence capabilities especially technical so they're all in there that's already been collected is being analyzed potential and hypothetical inferences that being created is more and more information is collected in analyzed we'll get closer to know exactly what happened you're right this is an extremely politically volatile situation and it's well it's the military and paramilitary of well it will be and that makes it more difficult to quickly get at the truth i have no question the troops will be up again that's just a question of how long and just finally richard we been looking at some of the pictures of the wreckage it seems clear that you can see the colors of the malaysian flag on this malaysia airlines plane. is there

a possibility from that height that perhaps it could have been shot down because it resembled the colors of the russian flag there book of both white and red in them where i would like to respond in the following way in a highly militarily and politically volatile situation all kinds of misperceptions and miscalculations about how your probability of occurring i think it's low probability what you suggest has occurred but certainly it's a possibility. ok to get your thoughts that's richard blum that we're speaking to here aviation security expert and riddle aeronautical university thanks so much for speaking to us thank you for having me and that's again obviously richard doesn't want to speculate too much for now but it's another angle that people now put into the equation and you can just imagine this is such a speculated. whole situation hasn't it with the hostilities in the region

those people who've been taking the side of the key air forces those people have been taking the side of the self-defense forces everybody trying to proclaim the. you know the the arguments of either side and some people are going to speculate that something like this could have happened it could have been a mistaken case of identity both sides as we know they're denying any involvement which just complicates the issue and makes the investigation so much more important there is a lot of speculation but one thing that has been for a fight as far as we can tell our eyewitness accounts from the area they have we been speaking to at least two people who have seen what occurred when the crash went down and let's just take a listen to their thoughts on what occurred what they saw. the report coming into the from us you know barbara brother is right there is. he said there are a lot of buddies loanword from

a lot of debris. can find tickets. to amsterdam and there's lots of food scattered around people are strong. in charge because there are so many dead bodies are impossible to refer to my brother is telling me there are lots of people lying there and all that information of course from the eyewitness just confirming what we already had a flight to the dam kuala lumpur in malaysia let's hear from another eyewitness. thank you but i'm up but if i'm right next to the village of grabble right now you know the scene he's shooting shot it is a civilian aircraft. flying around it's. easy to tell this was essentially an aircraft their passports scared out of. belonging to the nationals of malaysia and also the netherlands airplane grow up in

a lots of pieces that got scattered around within a perimeter of some five hundred meters to a kilometer. according to preliminary information coming from the militias the aircraft was shot down by. coming from the position of the queen military training center much of this information will be via a fied it is possible that the airplane could be brought down by air defenses i personally saw malaysian passports lying on the ground right at the place of the crash right now it has not been sealed off he had the firemen have just arrived the breeze still smoking in you can see everything with your own eyes according to preliminary information this could be ukrainian air defenses. because the armaments that the militias possess would not be enough to shoot down a plane from. one hundred meters above ground. i think we should perhaps just say

where these pictures are from as well as we mentioned that the flight went off radar like sixty kilometers away from the border we've got a little bit more information than we now yet we believe it while the pictures we know are in fact are from near the next the city of donetsk and east ukraine we believe it shocked taurus which is a village in the eastern region near. those pictures the eyewitness that we've been hearing from are from those that area we're going to be trying to talk to two more people get more. expert opinion as well in the coming in the coming hour as well. you know just very very quickly recount it looks like we're looking at a loss of two hundred ninety five lives on a crash of a malaysian airline in eastern ukraine we're going to take a very short break stay with us we've actually.

just to belittle. your pleasure let me give. you one quick. look on the polish if you will of course later. on marriage in the financial world. to goldman it's not stopping

citizens only take you know to its credit not going to get it in life there are. so. welcome back you're watching r.t. international mine is the harvey alongside my colleague you know neal and our breaking news this hour is of a large scale tragedy reports now which are growing in in confirmation basically from the different sources that we're getting of a crash line a malaysian airlines plane a boeing seven seven seven which has come down in eastern ukraine near the village of shock doest not too far from the city of donetsk it is believed that all two hundred ninety five people on board that plane perished two hundred eight passengers fifteen crew members we've had eyewitness reports confirming

what they have seen on the ground you can see here pictures of what we believe to be some of the wreckage eyewitnesses confirmed seeing bodies on the ground and of also seen tickets and of malaysian passports all confirming the information that we have that this was a flight from amsterdam to kuala lumpur which went missing from ukrainian radars and. as we understand everything is tying in unfortunately it went missing from ukrainian radars and never appeared on russian ones it was expected to enter the russian space and just never made it there or that that's what we're hearing as well we're also getting information that the malaysian government is is now working closely based say that's a quote working closely with russian and ukrainian government just to discover what occurred we have been looking at pictures that you can see now in fact of the record you're looking at plumes of smoke we can see the malaysia flag on this

militia airlines seven seven seven we've been hearing from eyewitnesses who have been really trying to piece together themselves. what occurred a lot of information has been coming into us we're hearing such things like tons or lines are wrong to avoid east ukraine or space mediately so that's coming in from from early lines as well but as we know the governments of russia ukraine and malaysia are now working closely together that is a quote from the malaysian foreign ministry obviously people are going to jump to conclusions on this because it was over what some of described as a war zone as we know extreme or still it is taking place down the conflict between kiev forces and self-defense forces a lot of people will jump to the conclusion that this plane was brought down somehow as part of that conflict we've had official responses from the self-defense forces in east ukraine that only they denied any involvement in this incident but

they've explained that it's simply impossible for them to brought down the plane with the equipment that they've got saying that the ammunitions that they got in the weapons could only be effective up to a distance of say three kilometers and we really know this plane was flying at around ten to eleven kilometers high kiev's authorities president poroshenko himself has denied any involvement on their behalf warm other piece of information which seems relative is is that related to this you would say is the reports which are unconfirmed that they give authority has moved some surface to air missile defense systems into that region just a day ago and that's going to i suspect bring up more questions over ukraine's involvement in this incident let's go now live to our correspondent irina glasgow who's by the ukraine russia border she's been keeping up to date with this story could speak to again ero what the latest where you are.

well at this point it does work. some information seems to be coming in that in fact some of the green officials have asked for nato involvement on the ground mission against self defense troops in the region donetsk and lugansk of course that is just some information that we're i'm getting there's still no confirmation confirmation as of now so this is becoming more and more. i would say morrow's tragic already though it is really beyond the scope of any magical tragedy at this particular moment of course the issue off the reason off the crash of the plane is not yet known of course peculations are running wild at this point we already have already said you have already said something about you have already said that the donetsk people's republic serb representatives have denied any involvement in this crash but also the same information was coming from ukraine's president poroshenko

has said it had to study craning forces have nothing to do with it also they are saying that no ukrainian military fighter jet has been has been cleared for liftoff on thursday whatsoever at least that's information coming from ukraine on top of that of course this is the play the the region where the plane has gone down has seen some immense extreme fighting in recent days just on tuesday the village of the villages where the part of fuselage of the plane the tail has fallen was severely bombed by ukrainian forces now what's also of course one of the biggest. one of the most. unbelievable moments about this something that also puts. i will also raises a lot of questions is the fact that if you look at the pictures at least and when it comes to the to the tail end of the plane we can see that it's laying right there next to some houses so whether or not we could be talking also about some

possible victims on the ground that is also something that needs to be cleared cleared out by any investigation which we haven't really heard about being launched being launched as off now and of course it remains remains as such that the this tragedy only existed baiting and already highly bloody conflict that is raging in the southeast of ukraine and has been raging there for quite some time at this point. if there's any way the situation could get worse unfortunately we seem to have discovered it reporting for us by the ukraine russia border thank you to you some more information coming in as well we've just stated that tons of said they're going to avoid the area flying over in future well no pilots around the world have said they're going to do similar well i tell you what let's try and bring in medina because it's not the first time a civil plane has been. over ukraine thirteen years ago

a similar incident happened over the block c. . that was two thousand and one that believe just give us some two water curd then yes a happen indeed it happened in october two thousand and one and i believe that it is indeed the case that it's worth mentioning at the moment now the russian and line a chance was. said than the russian ground control center reported that it lost contact with the air in line with and no with with the plane and very short after and was reported that the plane went down into the sea so the area where the plane happened was indeed a power of the area off of the black sea and right after that there's been a number of reports coming in including. hyla the r. median plane that was crossing very close to the area of the plane crash reporting that he saw the russian plane explode before it crashed into this sea of course at

that time there were a number of there were a number. of what. happens with the plane and the number one version was a terrorist attack but then it was revealed that the crash happened to ukraine in miss sound that brought down the plane accidentally during military axis sizes that were at that time happening very close to that area and the thing about that case is that it took ukraine years actually years to acknowledge that it's indeed it was the air missile that was behind that crash and it only happened after the international average. knowledge that ukraine miss out was behind. the crash of the russian back in two thousand and one and the plane was carrying sixty six passengers ten twelve crew members and no one on board survived that's the case that it's worth mentioning now absolutely this is

a sad incident isn't it and unfortunately there are some similarities we can't say what to do but they're all similarities and what's even more tragic is we're looking at the death toll is significantly higher than the on that occasion the devastating reports we've been receiving that's true here in the studio it's difficult even to to report on that news and i do understand that we're talking about a day after all that it's been understanding. so there with the details i think so much ok let's move on and get some more reaction expert opinion in fact from the chief investigator to see if the investigation is david cleave who joins me on the phone david how quickly will any investigation be able to actually provide answers to exactly what happened. it's going to depend on access to the aircraft itself it's in an area as you know a lot of political turmoil at the moment so the interstate aviation committee which

covers russia and various other former u.s.s.r. states. might be able to stop sending representatives but the security and safety is of the investigators going to have to be assured the ukrainian authorities. the americans will probably start to travel tomorrow served with a couple days before they can get. looking at general photographs that are reported to be from the singing. and the aircraft is hitting one very large space and exploded on entitled to a little what the local people create that we had a. nine hundred eighty s. in the u.k. . so we're going to be looking. will we be able to small the area for explosives and things that will the russian authorities do that will aid the f.b.i. be required to come in and assist so this is political questions to. go to to this

investigation and how to get the investigators but still following standard international protocols were required to do is investigate is. going to take time not if it was dying because the pilot had known the plane had been shot at before the impact highly likely is not to actually be knowing. essentially. with the type of warning. it's exceedingly rare for any. heads of states air force one with the u.s. president and some of the. heads of state in the gulf region. warning receipt those seeking missile. systems. nothing about talking to the point of. shoot at the.

course of. the pilots would know malaysian airlines themselves have also said they do not know what occurred at this stage doesn't mean the pilot didn't inform the gun control of any problem or a wouldn't have had time in such an instance i know it's it's a tough question but you know what can you what can you kind of glean from mine. any conventional problem that you have with an airplane from the altitude normally takes several minutes before you hit the ground. the standard sort of major catastrophic failure on the airplane provided that you had communication with air traffic control and that the communication cables for example weren't cut in any explosion then you would attempt to get some radio messages even if it was just a quick. just so that people could follow this. thing must write. reports that were seen descending on right the transponder the still putting out

some message which would be reasonable given the general state of the wreckage that the engines and fuselage appear in one area so some of the equipment may have survived to allow the airplane to communicate traffic control or in the departures to get a message out they would be concerned with trying to fly the airplane and ensure it's. whatever they could do to make the landing soft as possible was carried out but it appears to discretion relatively vertically at this point and so on concerns across like you say david is now here in the studio is what i just wanted to ask you did more about the the sort of the speed the impact of the crash because the seeing what appeared to be launched chunks now and i'm told this is quite unusual for this kind of crash would you would you agree with that and what does it actually suggest about the speed of in pants when the plane hit the ground. i

can see. very many photographs in front of the last century the engines. you can see sort of circular structures in. front of the engine. that's quite normal for. this talk of the entire act you can see lots of. things. this is fairly typical. out of control. looks relatively flat at the moment. and usually just a funny. thing. pretty much destroyed the parts that are quite visible and of course the wings. is relatively weak so we would expect to see. almost entirely destroyed ok i mean we are speculating we're

asking you to speculate as well to an extent unfortunately juta the region in which this plane has come down as though the speculation that it was in fact shot down if that turned out to be the case following an investigation how often have we seen this kind of incident in the past we use the planes crashing on occasion and unfortunate one little missing this year but how often do you see a tragedy where a plane is shot down. in general it's rather difficult especially because that being quite a few happened. described as such in the media. and military restrictions. roughly one. intentionally or unintentionally or.

controlled system problems. it's. military exercises. on missile tests but it's not. extreme. if you take something. off. you're looking at a cold one in three hundred four hundred. in terms of the relative occurrence of. a form of loss of an aircraft unit again here i'm just going to ask you one more question and i ask you really to speculate because i knew it is difficult to give any kind of information will be in any kind of concrete information so if a rocket does hit a plane and doesn't destroy it right away or is it at all possible that could have been survivors from the height. it's likely that the airplane.