rebel leaders in eastern ukraine say they doubt the flight recorders from the doomed malaysian airliner and are ready to hand them over to international investigate. questions pile up over the tragedy we take a look at some of the unexplained details including why the aircraft strayed from its usual route and why dispatchers told it to reduce altitude. also this week civilian deaths go largely unnoticed in the antigovernment stronghold of lugansk in eastern ukraine as kiev ratchets up its military onslaught in the wake of the plane crash also.

in garza more than forty civilians are killed in israeli airstrikes overnight as the i.d.f. expands its ground offensive now into its. hello welcome to the show this evening six o'clock here in moscow my name is the harvey you're watching. anti-government forces in eastern ukraine where a malaysian plane crashed earlier this week say they are ready to hand the flight recorders over to international experts all two hundred ninety eight people on board were killed in that horrific incident when the airliner was allegedly hit by a missile right cautious following the clean up and investigation efforts. the self-proclaimed prime minister of people's donetsk a republican examiner birdseye's said they had found technical evidence flight m h

seventeen that resemble a black box is now the second column and had already been taken to the next they're here on their garden board i said that they will they will only be delivered to the international team of experts once they get here speaking of that scene there yet to get here we do have always see monitors here who are observing the situation now as to the controversy regarding the bodies of the victims they had been taking to the city office or as nearby it's about fifteen kilometers away from that crash and then he they have been placed in a railway railway refrigerators now of the self defense and militia they said that they are doing this out of moral concerns because we are in a thirty degree heat out here and some of the bodies had already began to decompose in while i was at the scene of the crash and the situation here in the plane crash site is certainly a different from what we encountered say in the first and the second day the area is now cordoned off by plainclothes militia.

the self-defense forces in control of this area say they've made several appeals to the international community to get it seem of the experts here as soon as possible there was enough to do so we want a comprehensive and objective investigation but we don't feel like there's enthusiasm among the international community and experts several dozen experts are currently in kiev we're asking them to please come here faster so we are surprised and frankly angered that we have to keep the area untouched all we've been waiting for them for so long meanwhile kiev has already rushed to accuse the end to government forces of meddling with a crash scene on. the pro russian fighters are not allowing investigators to collect and transfer the evidence they're also not letting the search and rescue groups leave the area the groups are currently working under the threat of armed force for now the only international group to make it to the scene of the crash is

their organization for security and cooperation in europe the always see but it seems that right now they can do a little but stand by and watch although there is very little as we've reported there's very little security on the perimeter of the cross site we did notice that when he arrived today there was a cordon of armed security personnel both sides of the road when the process was basically as follow is that people go out they spot the body be photographed take video it and then the body is placed in the back and put beside the roadway is a brief from the plane is strewn all over it's once a kilometer radius which is likely to slow down the investigation and that large area is right in the middle of the conflict zone all this means that a clear analysis of how this plane came to crash in the field in eastern ukraine is unlikely to come soon if indeed it comes at all and that is

a heavy burden for many of the relatives of the victims who plan to come here soon to the scene of the disaster from on costs or of artsy eastern ukraine. so let's take a look back at the sequence of events leading to this catastrophe malaysian air flight seventeen took off from amsterdam on thursday at twelve fifteen pm local time bound for kuala lumpur things started to go sour at four twenty one pm kiev time it disappeared from radar coverage over ukraine all radio contact was lost within an hour the crash site was located it became clear though that nobody had survived now by eight in the evening both kiev and anti government troops have denied involvement in the crash local militia insisted that they had no weapons capable of shooting down such an airliner both sides started to trade accusations and finally most sadly relatives of the victims were informed overnight and the process of identifying the bodies began local residents have been recalling the horror of that

day is lucia little thought i heard terrible noise i went out first and then my has been well the woman fell to the ground right after i ran out first my husband thought it was me i was in shock i couldn't go further than my you aren't. my wife and i were having dinner when we heard a strange noise that sounded like clapping as soon as we went out of the house we saw a body lying nearby it must have fallen from a very high altitude the only thing left on the body was a t. shirt it was a man the legs were broken practically no blood. at first i didn't notice anything my son went out and said mom there is a body in the kitchen there was plastic everywhere i thought it was just a pile of rubbish but then they and this too that it was a human body without a leg and was arms twisted and broken. or malaysian airlines is release the full list of passengers on board that ill fated flight and two thirds of the one hundred

ninety three were dutch nationals forty three victims including the entire crew were middle aged and they were also twenty seven australians travelling as well as citizens of the united kingdom indonesia and germany in total ten nationalities on the manifest for the netherlands it's a time of nationwide mourning as peter oliver reports. the devastating news no one expects to hear. malaysian boeing adeline has been reportedly downed but based on a reuters and interfax a malaysian airlines flight with about two hundred ninety five people on board has crashed grief spills over as family and friends of those on board m h seventeen make it to the airport in amsterdam at the scene of the crash passports strewn among the carnage each one a painful reminder of a person who died and each of those people leave behind friends and family it's in

small communities like this one that have been directly affected that the real human tragedy becomes clear neil tall and her partner course children were on the flight outside the flower shop they owned floral tributes pile up those who saw them day on day a left stunned we couldn't believe what's happened. rumors spread quickly on the facebook in the morning to see outside then those are the flowers. then you know it's it happened for real in the shop window a sign for the postman drop the mail off next door we're on holiday there were very lovely people and. you know i did want to just to just enjoy a holiday for two weeks and come back and say to pick up the post and i had a great holiday before stepping on the plane shoulder posted this message on facebook it's understood and is told had been uneasy about the flight following the

disappearance of a malaysian airlines jet early at this year. family members stand sobbing in front of a book of condolences they told me they just can't bring themselves to speak on camera it's not only those who lost relatives in the tragedy who were grieving the netherlands is in a state of disbelief following the deaths of nearly two hundred of its citizens in the disaster we were all shocked and they're very much. because especially for me. it's really. strange because my father modern i've been under this same flight many times squawk from. so many dutch people were on that plane this tragedy has affected our song. we're think about it's not realistic people just a public airplane taking it down in this small country of only seventeen million

people it seems nearly everyone has been touched in some way by this the worst disaster to affect the country in its recent history peter all of our party netherlands there are plenty of unexplained circumstances surrounding the tragedy first the flight deviated from its usual route it is also unclear why it passed directly over the zone of a raging armed conflict and finally there are questions over why ukrainian ground control told the truth to reduce altitude just before the jet went down grieving families are now demanding explanations of what happened to their loved ones alexia brings us this report from malaysia. inside the kuala lumpur international airport right now nothing speaks of the horrible tragedy of thursday it works without disruptions this is different to the situation in march when the other malaysian airlines jet went missing relatives of those on board were literally beseeching the malaysian airlines offices back then they still had hope of seeing their loved ones

alive. there's no chance of that for the families connected to thursday's tragedy over ukraine but what unites the two apparently different disasters is the fact there are far more questions than answers starting with the mh seventeen jets flight path you move. and didn't see by the local school. so. you get to play. but if that route was safe and many other jets had flown it on the day why had several airlines decided to change their paths malaysian authorities claim the plane was flying on the set route but flight tracker data published online suggest the path could have been changed to three hundred kilometers further north. be international civil aviation community. or we are going to.

carry. some carriers since we know you. took a very safe line even many months ago. cross ukraine but if the flight trajectories more a matter of speculation right now one alteration it made has been officially confirmed in years to fly. so i think we have to be and. indeed altitude changes on request is a common practice but the malaysian authorities have received no clarification as to why it was ordered on that day supposedly minutes before the jet went down most religious of the passengers of m.h. seventeen have now gone to ukraine to identify the bodies a team of malaysian investigators is following them in the hope of shedding at least some light on this dark story. the reporter from kuala lumpur in malaysia.

britain's prime minister claims that if it's shown that the rebels in east ukraine down the aircraft then this would be a direct result of russia's support for government forces david cameron's comments follow a wave of accusations from western powers against moscow even though no official investigation has yet been conducted on a chicken as the story before investigators made it to the crash site the u.s. announced to the world where the deadly missile shot came from evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface to air missile that was launched from an area that is controlled by russian backed separatists inside of ukraine but the u.s. president stopped short of saying who pulled the trigger we don't know exactly what happened and yet u.s. officials all but it too. the rebels in eastern ukraine and russia by association of having shot down the plane president obama based his suggestions on incidents of

ukrainian military jets that the rebels recently shot out of the sky a group of separatists can't shoot down. military transport planes or they claim shoot down fighter jets without sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training and that is coming from russia russia says t.v. is responsible because it launched this military operation in eastern ukraine and the u.s. supported it moscow has also raised a number of questions for key have to answer including why it hadn't closed the airspace over what was clearly a war zone jim greatest idea why did the creating an air traffic controller send a passenger flights to an area of military clashes an area which was used to carry out strikes against civilian targets and where there were anti-aircraft systems operating all members of the un security council including russia and the united states have called for a credible impartial investigation of the disaster it will take time before any

results come through but the blame game is already in full swing down to check on washington d.c. . after the plane came down kiev was quick to blame the end to government forces for the tragedy here's what the accusations based on firstly ukraine circulated what it called an intercepted conversation between the opposition fighters in which they allegedly admit to firing on the plane the jet crashed on tow treat controlled by the opposition claims that's enough to implicate them even though the ukrainian army also has a heavy presence there and finally there's video released by clear that the ports to show a book surface to air missile system in eastern ukraine with one of its rockets missing all clear of claims that that video was shot in a place called dawn that's a small town located near the russian border but locals claim in that video you can actually see an address on the billboard ok to right there which is actually

located in mesa now that is a town which they say has been under the control of the ukrainian army since may and is in fact located two hundred fifty kilometers away from the russian border and we will try to independently verify those claims for you but intelligence expert shall shew bridge points out some other discrepancies in kids accusations one could say from the outset with some investigation the air of ground from which it was launched and of course that would give an indication even though it's accepted i think that is to put it much of eastern ukraine is in a fluid situation in terms of who controls what any given time ukraine's government has released what it claims are number of everyone should lead for example it is said that the rebels have these weapon systems i should point out that of course the prosecutor general himself denied that rebels have this system so it's fair to say there's a lot of confusion at the moment and really this really points the way to the importance of a thoroughly independent and

a good for investigation to uncover all of the leads in this case. several mainstream media outlets have latched on to the message coming from washington in kiev unleashing a storm of accusations against ukraine's government forces and against moscow the editor of the global media nks media channel done you'll check to lose the war of words is making it harder to get to the truth many in the media in america are really blaming president putin personally for this as if he is responsible but without any evidence to back it up and of course the ukrainian president has blamed terrorists whoever they are. treating of accusations between the ukrainian military and the so-called separatists in the east of the ukraine obviously to needs to be some sort of a kind of ceasefire there and a real serious investigation if you want to get at the truth this is a very politically laced subject that really requires this passionate international

investigation. still to come this hour global shock waves from the devastation being brought on gaza. we'll be reporting on how people in london new york and paris have been rallying against the deaths of palestinians at the hands of these reilley military stay with us here. i want allegations of propaganda also represent a form of propaganda because what you do is essentially diligent to mind seeing this force without looking at the context without looking at this. and that's not what i think is a real problem i think that's a political calling me to play which to stall to the old. ukraine crisis somebody. on the left me on the side. you are going to be able. you know i'm i'm basically

sourcing the whole of the reporter in florida and i am i think there's a need for them to have a common discussion about. welcome back you're watching the weekly here on r.t. international now despite calls for a cease fire going at the louder kiev has stepped up its military crackdown against

the centers of anti-government resistance in eastern ukraine this week the situation in the regional capital of don yes cremains tense with explosions heard on the outskirts of daily air raids and shelling have become an every day reality for the people in lugansk the army's mortar fire in broad daylight in the ganske killed at least sixteen people on friday tens of buildings including a church were damaged while the residents there were left without power and water meanwhile the organization for security and cooperation in europe puts the total number of lives lost in lugansk since the summer alone at two hundred fifty here's a really good listener on the russia ukraine border with the latest updates from the area. reported hearing air raid sirens again again last night and they're saying that fighting continues on the outskirts of the city now according to self-defense forces ukrainian troops are gaining ground seeking to take control over the road that is connecting the god's goodness to c.d.'s that are essentially

capitals of the two restive regions. varying brought into off the assaults by the ukrainian army this city has been heavily hit its infrastructure damaged people are saying they're left without water electricity gas is also something they're finding a shortage off of course there are instances of people being hit in the middle of the day by artillery and mortar shells at one instance eight people have died similar tenuously when a shell has hit a cross walk always the observers have said that two hundred fifty people have been killed since the beginning of june in lugansk alone previously that number is given for civilian casualties for these homes you ration of conflict for both regions and so now we can assume that that number is probably a lot higher than people have to say they're living here. he says have a peaceful life. if you look like the terrorists.

know it's. the fighting continues and at times it can be heard on the border between russia and ukraine with residents complaining about shells flying into their backyards essentially despite the fact that petro poroshenko has assured that civilians are not going to be the. targets of the ukrainian military nevertheless they seem to be bearing the brunt of the pressure and when exactly if at this conflict is going to end is not yet clear with of course the world's attention being on the aftermath of the disaster flight m h seventeen the fighting that doesn't seem to subside in southeastern ukraine goes on as before. israel has now extended a humanitarian truce with gaza militants for war it was earlier briefly lifted following a barrel of rocket fire by hamas the sides have agreed to allow the red cross to get the dead and the injured out of the worst hit area in eastern gaza the i.d.f.

bombarded this site from the overnight killing more than eighty seven civilians locals say there are bodies strewn over the streets and collapsed buildings and that no one is able to actually retrieve them due to the destruction while two more israeli soldiers were killed last night bringing the total israeli death toll to serve and that number though is dwarfed by the palestinian photos which no approach four hundred very clear is in gaza. just now day thirteen of israel's operation protective we've seen heavy israeli ground sea bombardment right now we can hear drones overhead and ambulances and shelling to the east of gaza city of course the palestinian civilian population here are paying a particularly noted price of for this escalation in violence now of course the. in nations and state actors in the region trying to organize

a ceasefire for example. doing what they can and un chief ban ki moon is today meeting with palestinian president mahmoud abbas egypt's attempts at creating a ceasefire few days ago failed as hamas rejected the egyptian proposal of thousands of. the displaced as this operation has been ongoing we've seen those numbers increase steadily over the last few days which has seen an opting of the violence used by particularly the israeli air force now of course these particular instances of homes being targeted and they are regarded by the palestinians here very specifically as signs that israel is not being careful enough in its operations that it is willing to be reckless actually is the language here used by officials on policy and civilians you've been talking to me it's going about targeting militants. coming up after a short break here on our son

a boy who is joined by the director of the ethical journalism network to discuss how society can keep a check on journalists to ensure their work doesn't stray into the realms of propaganda. to u.s. agents who are working deep inside the german government have been caught which has heightened tensions between the two countries even more the german reaction to this was to expel the cia chief in berlin from his post this is the kind of story that makes people who hate u.s. foreign policy to share button on facebook and get all excited it makes many feel that merkel or at least some elements of the german government are actually fighting against foreign meddling but i would say that you should take this story with a huge grain of salt yeah they just had one cia asset out of the country and this could be a sign of change but there are still twenty plus u.s. military bases currently operating in germany and in fact the power holder base is

one of the largest ones outside of america territory with thirteen thousand troops permanently stationed there so basically if merkel really wants to reduce foreign meddling in germany she's going to have to somehow get a massive foreign military presence out of a country and since this has been there for almost seventy years already i don't think that they're just going to pack up and leave on their own one day but that's just my opinion. lead to.

live. in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. a little. hello and welcome to worlds apart in the era when the whole country is a convicted end because the public opinion when a massacre is that carried out to be shown on t.v. and where perception and reality are just as mixed as news and commentary is there

still a place for journalism let alone afaik old journalism well to discuss that i'm now joined by eight in the wide director of the ethical journalism network mr y. thank you very much for being here hello yes it's pleasure now you define journalism in terms of five basic elements truth independence impartiality humanity and humility and those are very subjective categories they're all essentially in the eye of the beholder starting from truth what could be more divisive and complicated than that so i wonder whether your own decision of journalism essentially reduces a journalist to somebody who's notions of truth impartiality and independence are very similar to yours no i mean i think i'm stronger i mean i'm not just talking out here about drone was i mean i think what we're talking about the framework in which everybody behaves look all human beings arrestable on the walls and when we have a discourse between us i mean it's reasonable that we're expecting each other to be

ethical you know the basic constituents are more to my cool cicle journalism all ok i agree with you truth is a very big good but i think accuracy is extremely important and we shouldn't be deceptive in our humbling of the facts independent so we are not. well one particular song accountability that we're ready to i'm going. to correct the reader all there is very important notions in detail and i suggest we consider the conflict in ukraine which i know you recently wrote about and there are at least three distinct narratives as far as ukrainian coverage is concerned russian ukrainian and western in the article that you wrote recently perhaps and surprisingly described the russian and ukrainian line as political propaganda but i came away with an impression that you believe that the reporting in the western media dies race to the standard of.