u.s. intelligence say there is no direct link between russia and the downing of the malaysian airliner they insist it was shot down. but if so far. the bodies of those killed were in flight. being flown to the netherlands investigators expressed their satisfaction with the progress being made so far. the u.s. and european media keep pressing the blame for the. all evidence to the contrary as propaganda voiced the whole world. claims and counterclaims continue over the. russia over the crisis in ukraine.

we're coming to you live from moscow it's now at three pm here in the russian capital there's nothing directly tying russia to the downing of flight m.h. seventy u.s. intelligence officials have announced during a press briefing they believe it was the work of government forces but the officials say they aren't even sure of nationality let alone who did it to see it sums up the briefing. u.s. intelligence officials speaking on conditions of anonymity really under thinking veil of secrecy are coming out and saying that they have absolutely no evidence and no proof showing any kind of involvement on behalf of the russian government when it comes to this tragedy certainly this is something that's

a very big development in this story because this does not really fit the narrative that the u.s. has been pushing in this whole ordeal as of course meanwhile certainly the investigation is really just beginning to take off importantly we've heard from one u.s. intelligence officials say we don't know when name we don't know rank and we're not even one hundred percent sure of a nationality this keeping this in mind they are continuing to say that it's likely this was a mystique shoot down conducted by the end of fighters on the ground in eastern ukraine but it looks like because of so much secrecy and these reports really are you and interpret it differently certainly in the u.s. media we seeing journalists going so far as to say that they have don't even have any certainty at all in terms of this being specifically the anti kiya fighters we know that these u.s. intelligence officials are saying that they're basing these claims on social media

and posts made by the ukrainian government and that's certainly not a first when it comes to the ukrainian crisis on monday russia's defense ministry has said also that they have proof that there was another clean in the air next to the malaysian airlines flight before it was shot down they believe this plane resembled a ukrainian military jets and they have been demanding comments or an explanation from kiev and kiev of course thus far has denied this we also do know that russia's defense ministry has also said that they have images of ukrainian missile systems within the zone of the crash. well the u.s. maintains that russia is responsible for creating the conditions for the crash by training and arming the anti-government forces in eastern ukraine washington admits that the opinion is partly based on social media posts america's failure to show the hard evidence is up for discussion in today's cross-talk. america

extraordinarily good signal intelligence they are spying on the entire world they know what you and i had for breakfast today it it defies belief to imagine that they didn't have spy satellites over the place with the events occurred that they did not have over the horizon radar watching what was going on they clearly do have in their possession. hard evidence for what brought down the plane now what they're saying that just scary seem to be saying was all we have excellent evidence much better than the russians but he won't say what it is if they have this evidence and it was in their favor i would imagine it would be all over the pages of the new york post right now. so let's get more on the mh seventeen tragedy from desmond ross an aviation security expert who joins us now here on r.t.

international mr ross thank you very much for your time. we've heard a lot of talk recently about these flight data recorders in the black boxes can we talk specifically about exactly what these are and what information they store. yes good evening and good morning to you and the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder of the two boxes were referring to the cockpit voice recorder as the name suggests will. tell us what was said what noises were heard everything that occurred in the cockpit prior to the accident that will stall at the moment when the par goes off at the point of impact of the point when the explosion occurred the cockpit voice recorder has a two hour loop so it has the previous two hours of all noises voice activity air traffic control communications etc in the cockpit that can be very useful in those last moments of m h one seven it could even record the sound of the

explosion it will certainly record the sound of warning bells gongs and any comments made by the pilots the other one the flight data recorder specifically records the parameters of the aircraft its hopper acting characteristics at that time i would not expect there to be anything is unusual on that flight data recorder up until the moment of the explosion but it will give us one particularly interesting finding and that is the cabin when we all fly when you fly on any aircraft in the world the cat kept her in that cabin pressure is set to eight thousand feet above sea level with the exception of the new generation aircraft where they're sending it lower its success with the most aircraft at seven seven seven hundred eight thousand feet that aircraft was flying at thirty to thirty three thousand feet so the sudden decompression from an eight thousand foot

pressure level in the aircraft cabin to thirty three thousand eight would be quite traumatic we could also be very fast and this is what i'm interested in i think we're all interested. you know if that decompression occurred instantly or if it took a few moments to be pressurized i'm with a sort of a different mission so it turns out you have me mr ross with a sort of information beyond those data recorders that they're in england now and how long will it take until we get this sort of information. that information should all be stored on the recorders long as there are no tampering in knowing it and they should be completely able to give us any information i don't think it will take terribly long the cockpit voice recorder will be quicker but the flight data recorder require specialized equipment which is was going to england actually there's only about half a dozen special burglaries in the world the list can be done. fortunately we don't have plane accidents every day so they don't need many the barges so the u.k. will examine that and i'm sure of they have very painstaking examination to

determine precisely what happened in the last moments seconds of them each one seventy five. weeks ok well the plane which way we went off course before it came down how normal is that once these routes are they set in stone or is it common for routes to change once planes are up in the air. their captain and their captors the complete authority. for the safety of the aircraft so if he wants to divert his flight left or right or track or climb or descend from his assigned cruising altitude he has the it is hard to do that with a clearance from air traffic control so that occurs frequently under storm or due to extreme turbulence that might be in the air for the comfort of passion years the captains will frequently climb to get into some of their specs ordered left or right of track but you wouldn't do that which showed by zing air traffic control

you must and always would advise the air traffic controllers which in that case should have been the ukrainian air traffic control center that it was necessary for a diversion left or right to drag for whatever reason he would normally stayed judas and storm or something whatever was going on in jude's children's so they would do it or well with a clearance from a.t.c. and i presume that sort of information will be on those those data recorders now we're also hearing reports that there was another aircraft in close proximity to the mh seventeen flight now if that is confirmed what sort of effect would that have had and again will that information be unveiled in those those date flight data recorders. it would not necessarily be on the flight data recorder orders unless the pilots were aware of that or craft and made some comment either to air traffic control or to themselves it would not there's nothing else out there on the nano arbiter of course that would identify that aircraft present so it's

a little odd. again air traffic control has the responsibility of keeping all aircraft safe on the roads they should not and would not normally clear in her military or civil to be at the same altitude within close proximity of another aircraft and civil air are so. under no pressure because even if it was a military aircraft which is being suggested in some cases it was military aircraft he should not have been in that airspace without a clearance from the air traffic control system and even if he was on a military frequency normally the military controller would coordinate with the civil controller this is how it works internationally so that for him to be introduced proximity to a civil aircraft without a clearance and without the knowledge of the air traffic controllers and the pilots of the malaysian flight would be highly irregular. if the if it was a military aircraft and they thought that they were under some sort of a threat would it should still under normal circumstances have been coordinated

between the military and the civil controllers understand that there's a war going on there at the moment and again we come back to the problem of the fog of war and the confusion that occurs and who knows what was really going on so very very briefly that the second plane well that you say likely to be in the flight data recorders will there be anything in there that could lead to a clue that there's this plane was in the proximity on or not detail. only if air traffic controller had by malaysian crew to be aware of a military flight that was great in its proximity or if they heard a clearance being issued to it on the radio frequency it would only be if there was some radio conversation that would reveal the presence of that aircraft they would know about it and that we would find that on flight data recorder the cockpit voice recorder mr ross thank you very much for your time much appreciate fascinating stuff thank you so much there's

a lot more to it i think. we will watch this space. now forty bodies of passengers and crew killed on the malaysian airline flight now aboard a military transport plane headed for the netherlands artie's one man costa reffer ports on their journey. following a military ceremony the bodies of the victims of the flight's m.h. seventeen have departed from the city of golf in ukraine a dutch forensic specialists have been saying that not all of the victims' bodies have been looked at so far they have unlocked two of the train cars and to remain to be a look and they're saying that this procedure should be completed by the twenty fifth of july meanwhile the always see mission and malaysian airlines experts who are here on the scene off the crash are saying that they have received a full access to the scene of the tragedy and here is what they said the malaysians have expressed gratitude for the access they received today they were quite happy

with that. in fact they said they felt quite protected. they have also said they have not seen any evidence of parts at least the major parts missing from any of the crash sites here today malaysian prime minister has announced that say he is not about to put a blame on anybody in this tragedy until you have concrete evidence as the investigation is just beginning meanwhile the black boxes that were in possession of malaysian aviation experts are now in the hands of british specialists and they will probably shed some light as to what happened to flight m h seventeen as to the identification of the bodies well that will be done by the interpol well with more now on the repopulation of the bodies paid to all of us is in the netherlands. it's here at eindhoven airport that the first bodies of those killed on board malaysian airlines flight seventeen will be brought that would be on board

a dutch military airplane now once those bodies arrive here in airport they're going to be taken by refrigerated truck to the town of health to be more correct to a military base just outside of the town of hilton now that that military base is the headquarters the main training center for medics in the army now this was something that was promised by marketeer to the dutch prime minister on monday during a press briefing he said it was the number one priority to get the bodies out of ukraine and begin that identification process and it seems that that's now well underway and will be bringing some kind of response to those families who lost their loved ones on board this tragic tragic flight where the investigation into the mh seventeen downing is still in its early stages but some u.s. and e.u. news outlets have already pinned the blame they keep accusing russia of both the crash and the cover up sometimes mistaking the wildest speculation for moscow's official stance. as more.

the media coverage in the west has been largely slanted against russia public opinion of course response to that kind of coverage of attention meant is that russia is probably involved and if involved they're probably going to cover it up that's where the public sentiment is in the c.n.n. poll the american people got it right in terms of who's to blame here folks fifty one percent said russia isn't directly involved but only the stakes are high whoever shoulders the blame for this atrocity is going to be the target of global anger and right now it looks like it's russia's fault because. it's russia's fault . it's quite clearly the latest twist in this propaganda war the russians through their ambassador here in kuala lumpur presenting their version of events to the malaysian media there's also been attempts to discredit russian sources of information c.n.n. put out a breakdown of what it called russia's propaganda the first item on the list is this it says the russian take passengers were already dead when put aboard the m h

seven team but when you follow the link on this page it has an article in russian which reviews all the apparently put on quote fake fur jeans and conspiracy theories that are out there that's what the article says specifically about the theory that the bodies were dead before the crash it says literally then there is information which is simply impossible to believe c.n.n. presents it and calls it the russian take it is not the russian take in the same breakdown right after this dead bodies theory c.n.n. puts russian defense officials showing evidence that ukraine had the capability to shoot down the plane moscow is now saying ukraine did it showing evidence that it had the capability to do it contrary to what kiev is now say that claim is brushed off as propaganda that information is now politically charged on all airwaves it seems many journalists have already handed down their verdict in washington i'm going to check on our team. for the e.u.'s foreign policy chief promises a new

a blacklist of russian sanctions by europe will be announced by thursday moscow's economy could also be targeted. has more president putin in particular has direct responsibility to compel them to cooperate with the investigation that is the least they can do russian backed rebels quite likely a russian supplied weapon. russia can't wash its hands of this the context for this tragedy is russia's attempt to destabilize a sovereign state violate its territorial integrity. and and train for gish malicious e.u. foreign ministers have agreed to extend its blacklist of russian individuals or putin's cronies as they call them to be targeted by a new wave of sanctions as well as russian companies in the energy defense and financial sectors another list of harsher so-called to three sanctions will be drawn up but they'll only be imposed at a later date if russia fails to stem what it says is

a flow of weapons that meant and militants across the border as far as the measures taken by the unite the european union are concerned this is a logical consequence of the decision of the european council and the lack of progress we've seen on the russian side since then cross the pond the white house has long been pushing for the e.u. to take a harsher stance against russia and it welcomed it's not just towards more punitive measures even pushing for a full arms embargo france's said it will honor its contract to provide russia with one aircraft carrier but could still back out of sending a second to moscow washington also trying to take advantage of the situation definitely destroy the french i knew early on in the district and i'm talking about . i don't think we're going to stop the sale anyway the french elements in the final answer will be given. in britain the home secretary unveiled

a new public inquiry into an old wound the death of former f.s.b. agent alexander litvinenko in two thousand and six. it's all part of this russian phobic campaign and the u.k. government will be hoping that bringing this back into the limelight will try to turn people against russia and so it's a political decision lightly why all ministers reportedly said the timing of the post was a coincidence but one that's likely to add to the already high tensions between the west and russia an accord. coming up palestinian medics crews are caught in the fire. ripped apart in an offensive that's left hundreds of palestinian civilians dead and many thousands seeking shelter.

badgley and playing the blame game the u.s. state department claims it has all the evidence it needs to lay blame on russia for the downing of the malaysian airliner but it won't disclose at what is washington leading. speak the language. programs or documentaries in arabic it's all here on. reporting from the world talks about six of the p.r.p. interviews intriguing story for you. to. visit.

join me. in that impartial and financial reporting commentary interview and much much. only on us and. at least three people have been killed and ten wounded in a stint in the eastern ukrainian city of new says the army pummels the city with artillery according to local authorities twenty buildings have reportedly been damaged over the past day among them. schools and a hospital power stations and other vital facilities have also been hit in the shelling. or the ukrainian army has launched a new round of shelling in the restive done yet region military officials say they're making headway in what they call liberating the area of separatists supporting the self-proclaimed republic two towns near the original capital bore the brunt of the crush of time for the residential areas again taking the heaviest

damage a nine year old girl was reportedly killed in one of the attacks over a dozen civilians have also been wounded locals were forced to spend the night in basements emerging in the morning to find their homes which used to ruins to know what the british. this is there's a question and busy here but yeah. but you've got this billboard infinit got going from the civil rights but i mean this in the not all sense assets i guess that he would know that she did see sort of in the little guy and then go i mean you don't miss you when you're not there yet need to get my. elsewhere civilians must not be targeted says the u.n. human rights chief she strongly condemns israel's continuous power bar bent of palestinian territories the same time navi pillay also criticized hamas for indiscriminate firing at israel the statement came as she opened an emergency meeting of the human rights council in geneva on the deteriorating situation in

gaza by continuing to document several other cases in which family there's intense israel destroyed with the reported loss of civilian life and limb unary indications suggest not even a single member of an armed group was this seems to be a strong possibility that international humanitarian humanitarian law has been violated in a manner that could amount to look right. well the u.n. has released a staggering report saying that over the past two days one palestinian child has been killed every hour or an all about seventy five percent of all the deaths in gaza are civilians that's according to estimates so far at least six hundred fifty palestinians have been killed and twenty nine israelis have also lost their lives.

and i know. if i could talk a little. bit . i. mean while a norwegian doctor volunteering in gaza wrote an open letter an attempt to draw international attention to the horrific scenes witnessed by the medics he describes lakes of blood and emergency rooms in a never ending flow of wounded mads gilbert also appealed to western leaders to go to gaza impasse and see what's going on that he says that spending one night at a hospital where he works would be enough to change their minds how they fare has more. with israel's navy to the west tanks in ground troops to the north east and south and it's modern air force all the while overhead there is no shortage of extreme risks for gaza's paramedics and other

first responders while we're on our way to the middle of gaza and the taxi drivers that we were using basically got a phone call saying his home all the building in which he lives has been destroyed this is what's left of it. the little one of these rays called us ordering us to evacuate our home and just after we left the home they bombed it reducing it to the state you see it in now i'm happy that nothing happened to anyone from my family or any neighbors. despite losing his home our driver insists we continue our journey as we travel south from gaza city and the strikes in the shelling become all the more visible. but the palestinian red crescent says haven't reached some affected areas leaving civilians distraught but entering such areas can be deadly for paramedics ambulances have come under fire in this recent escalation one medic has already died and it's happened before

a paramedic died in the two thousand and twelve war more than a dozen others died in the two thousand and eight two thousand and nine conflict while in the last five minutes of being here at the al aqsa hospital in middle middle we have seen three israeli and aerial vehicles fly over and we've seen just as many dead bodies around here. in order to palestinian paramedics do their job israel call the union national cease fire in an area that's seen heavy strikes schools of ambulances fire engines and diggers rushed in to help many injured and to recover bodies. of missiles struck the surgery department which is home to casualty in trauma patients causing many deaths and injuries. you know no first responders are internationally legally protected workers fearing that's not enough they've been joined by foreign activists volunteering as human shields but

even with that protection foreign volunteers shielding an early civilian evacuation and even the death of one teenager apparently as a result of multiple i.d.f. gunshots exhausted and overwhelmed with people needing that attention gaza's paramedics have a seemingly impossible job to do all the while trying to avoid being part of the body count themselves harry fear. israeli embassy in the u.s. state of chicago palestinian supporters have voiced their anger over the bloody events in gaza at the same time on the opposite side of the strait a pro israeli rally took place police presence control both demonstrations went off peacefully although a small number of people from both camps did confront each other. and the mh seventeen tragedy is up for discussion in today's crosstalk that's coming up next on international.

we chase profits very large very attractive and now very globally recognized source of oil for the world and into the future the world's cheapest and best petroleum deposits have been mined out we have to use more energy to get this energy industries grow like a cancer in each of these squares it's ten kilometers where. and this whole area is slated to the point of that's your drinking water that's our wildlife service that's your fishery we can't stop this is the end game when it takes two tons of sand to make one barrel of oil you know you're at the bottom of the mine and that's where we're at. the chill ourselves. choose your language. we can't we know if the federal plan today still some of us.

choose to use the consensus you can. choose the opinions that you think are great to. choose to stories that in high school might. choose to be access to your office. they want to say that this country is back to the middle ages. for the database and you know they derive their ability from the very very rigid interpretation of iraq if you look at a country like egypt for example saudi in off the very high poverty the reason this my pulse or the i think is because the religion calls it the boundary and the border and that's the kind of suppression if you look at the liberal the state of a country like turkey post ninety nine percent muslim. the economy is booming.