and to the western media which feels justified to push for war with anyone who doesn't adopt western values have themselves completely forgotten just what those values are i thought in the glorious west everyone gets a fair trial with due process evidence and a conviction only after their guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt but when enemies of washington need to be demonized i guess all those principles just fly right out the door but that's just my opinion. the last thing is that people essentially leaving in this world when they believe that you know that me to. talk to. they simply don't realize when propaganda is being pointed down we need to go beyond that and actually engage with the ideas. that is presented as well and confront that information and i think that's something that is as you mentioned before not everything is black and white

not everything isn't taken the stick and the more that we can be i guess open open minded connoisseurs of new information regardless of the source i think we're all going to be. welcome to say same says he shivered not say the member states of the e.u. take pride in their high standards of living and developed economies but a fresh air of pain commission report has brought to light the true extent of corruption on the continent millions of heroes are going to waste and no parts of the union are spared but its corruption is universally harmful and how is here a bunch of tackle it well west. newly appointed time we're tired of the.

as the financial crisis ease its grip on europe the continent is now faced with a different challenge it's claimed bribery is eating the union from the inside reportedly costing the blog as much as it spends in a whole year can the world's most advanced economies handle the shocking truth stamp on the grabbing hands or is the fight against corruption hopeless. because it's great to have you with us today now the commissioner behind the report into the corruption in the u. has called the scale of it breast taking do the figures say your breath away because there are certainly a striking. force of all best regards to your your sore on the world was not so much surprised about the figures which were there which were presented in the report. although their estimation but still i would say that this to me is quite

accurate if you take into consideration the amount of money which she's being spent every year in the european union those figures are extremely big but not such a surprise but i mean we are talking about a hundred and twenty billion here us which is approximately the budget of you it is a huge number though it well but you have to take into consideration that just three years ago. the european union are spending several hundred billion a furious on the public procurement in their estimation of the each public procurement deal twenty thirty sometimes even fifty percent of the money spent on corruption so this figure is i think assess that. i think it's quite accurate of course this figure has to cause an alarm with all the decision makers in all of countries of the open union which until no worse obviously it can mean that the corruption is not such a big problem obviously it is in obviously it is the dumb the time has kim come to

to do something against it but why were they so surprised to see this number they have that the lady behind the report was obviously expressing her shock this is the first to port which gives a general review of the events in the corruption or interruption air india rypien union until today we were just dealing with initial reports of course concerning concrete countries and since this is the first one on the european union level of course the figures which are shown there are shocking for somebody especially for those who did not even think that corruption might be such a big problem in you know if you don't think that corruption is a big problem you have no political reason to deal with it so today it is obvious it is clear corruption is a huge problem. for corruption in rio a stink billions and billions of taxpayers' money in this also means that our

politicians would have to do something against it there is because when we're talking about corruption can you explain to us what forms it takes are we talking about bribery only money laundering organized crime where basically we make a difference between we call it that the corruption low level corruption in high level corruption better corruption is bribes or citizen order if they're paying to the police officers to customs officer stop the public official said there are little local communities and. the demi cost with betty corruption is not such big as did the other one the democrats by a hell of a corruption which is conducted by the politicians in power they don't do it very often but when they do it we are speaking about hundreds sometimes mysie but millions and millions of dollars or euros of damage caused and what is even more important the consequences of corruption are also corrupt decisions which influence

delay for each of us now what you're talking about the government official is actually being involved in a large scale corruption schemes can you give us a precise example of what you see in the european union to be dealing with public officials from the lowest level it's a those are police officers. decks officer scott sums officers but also we're also dealing quipped. presence of the government so about what i'm asking i have signed it so you got me my own country we have a case yeah we have my country were to the ex president of the government and the prime minister has been sentence or the sent this is not final yet for or for some sort of bribery so there is nobody is immune from corruption in the petition at the top can cause the most of the demolition this is the most dangerous form of corruption but if you look at it from to generalize they could you say is the biggest offender the businessman or the government there fish else it depends in

which way it happens you know some not so long ago people are saying the one who is giving bribes is less good to the one who succeeds in bribes this is not the true annoy the one who is giving equally good is the one who's except in bribes what is important is what position persons involved in corruption have so if you're dealing let's say if we did the rector of the company who is bribing high level official at the level of let's see a minister or even the prime minister then of course the one who is having much more power to ministers and prime ministers and of course they have to be. burden more with what is happening and because they can course and they are causing much more damage than ordinary directors or than accompanists but among countries themselves like who are the worst offenders and why those countries especially if

you know what in the superior poor countries like spain italy greece have been exposed as the most corrupt countries in the opinion there are different reasons for that first of all is those are all countries which are facing serious economic crisis then a smudge don't usually don't want to speak about it but sometimes i have to admit that it is also part of part of the culture of this country's in the third one is the and to corruption systems in those countries are not effective they do not work and therefore there is no threat for the guys who are already involved in corruption or they are planning to get in what and corruption because they know they can do whatever they want to they will not be punished by the state and this is the consequences we see but you bring up an interesting point you're saying it's part of the culture but if it's part of a culture how do you fight it well the culture of scorn also be changed i can

remember. one of my presentation some years ago i mean your country the russian federation where you are one of the professors at one of the faculty was trying to explain the students that this is corruption is in the culture of russians and nothing can do can be done to fight it i don't agree with that one you know this was maybe happened in the past but also a culture of developing and if not with this it is obvious in these clear or to see should be clear that crushed me something which is undermining the life of each of us then it cannot be part of anybody's corrupt culture of course it takes years sometimes it takes decades sometimes it takes centuries but i'm quite sure that at the end also those cultures who changed history for example scandinavian countries they have maybe half of the legislation we have they have one third of the

situations we have in they don't feel they're almost no more corruption why because culturally it is a disaster for somebody in finland sweden norway to be even suspicious of being involved in corruption and of course i'm not saying that they don't have corrupt individuals there but the extent of corruption there is much lower than in listen other countries especially countries in the southern europe well that if you want to say that you large brand is creating more corruption problems when the new member states like from eastern europe join for example what they're more relaxed assets or towards corruption is that a big problem as a whole. well i think the problem is somewhere else you see when countries are exceeding to the opinion in european union is imposing a lot of pressure on them to fight corruption effective fight against corruption is even political criteria for countries to join deal it means it is non-negotiable they have to do it but what happens afterwards is the problem see all the countries

you know which were jointly you were at the peak of their anti-corruption efforts on the day over the accession the next day european union it was not pushing pressing them they started to become very lenient on the fight against corruption and we saw cases like let's see my own country we also we saw cases label go to romania were just a year or two after the session the situation much worse then before the accession process so it is obvious that there was no genuine political will in those countries to fight corruption but they were doing it just because they had to do it because they were under the pressure pressure of the opinion and that's are some immigrants bribing an official can be the only way to stay alive or stay in here up is making the ears corruption problem worse. in all we have. of course there are situations were. nobody can have any questions about the

fake somebody has given the bribe if you're speaking about stink if you're speaking to see keeping the job if you're sticking stink speaking about getting the job and . those people are being blackmailed by the ones who are accepting bribes of course for money this is still. giving bribes but. there are so many differences we should enable those individuals. not to get punished or to get punished seriously even if that would not be the case. i would take a short break now after the break corruption by legalizing it and we'll be back with that of course head of the working group on bribery stay with us.

the idea of russia in russian. politics and that obsession has to date been remarkably dark even menacing is this because the west. but. i would like to do that you know the price is the only industry

specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open process is critical to our democracy back numbers. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across several we've been hijacked by handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once built my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem. rational debate and a real discussion of critical issues facing america have fun you know ready to join the movement then walk a little bit take. your

friend post a photo from a vacation you can't afford. a different. the boss repeats the same old joke of course you like. your ex-girlfriend still pains tear jerking poetry keep. norrish. we post only what really matters at r.t. to your facebook you street. and we're back with that because a professional corruption fighter it's good to have you back in the studio so you were saying in the first part of our program that for example berg area and romania once they're entering the e.u. with they were at the peak of fighting the corruption and as soon as they became a member. as of the e.u. they became very lenient this is something that the e.u.

high officials have and in visitors from what i understand so do you guys have now mechanisms to fight that once they're in but they're not being lenient but they're being lenient to fight corruption what do you do with that after the case of romania bulgaria or the difference or so so. huge between the days before the accession in the day of the accession european commission has developed a system which is called co-operation in beautification mechanism which was basically again assessing what those two countries are doing to the fight against corruption in since they were not fulfilling the current curia said but those mechanism they were losing hundreds of millions of euros because european commission has frozen the funds which were intended for those two countries because they are not fighting corruption if you take a case of creation who joined let's say the later stage there being commission was much more clear for they were simply asking. to mr gate some concrete cases

of corruption a suppressive person evidence that they would really fight corruption in croatia was forced to do it and they. expect this to happen with all future candidates so on the deal with accession if you're not be over there was essentially we don't mean the end to the fight against corruption but it would be just one of the faces which would have to be confirmed or sort of afterwards so what is it when you're comparing countries like greece and spain which are at its peak of corruption schemes at this point and then you had bulgaria and romania that were to speak five years ago how different are the corruption schemes in those countries if a compare or are they all the same. base of corruption schemes are the same but there's a huge difference you see. the. new european member states or despite the fact that the state having a lot of problems in the fight against corruption they're closing dig it. between them in between the old two member states you see there was i'm afraid there still

is. so called the exist so-called double standards for the old you member states there's not so many. mechanisms which you've been in commission supplying as they are applying them towards the new would be a member states so there's a there are different standards if you are an order you european member states you can do a lot in the wrong into or not get even warrant by european commission if you are a new one you'll soon face warnings and associate in the case of romania bulgaria or so very practical consequences in the form or for frozen european funds and so on and so on now you've been tackling corruption in europe for decades you come from the part of the world and you are not from eastern europe where you understand

the corruption corruption is in some ways part of the political culture what are the most alarming examples of corruption of the continent that you personally have come across. what is the most alarming form of corruption is when politicians. winning the elections they think that the state you should be has become their reward for their election with other words they take the. winning the election they take it as winning that separation of the treasure so sure they're in a sore so many countries already that. the highest level of politicians were simply destroying the countries for their personal it's because they thought they have right to do it they thought they have right to put all their political allies on important porton positions not only to give them jobs but also to be sure that

those political political allies will serve us into media as in those. grabbing the wealth of the countries. in instilling the richness of all the country's wealth for instance in the united states corruption is practically legalized in the sense that it is called simply lobbying it's transparent it's regulated and it's out of the shadows can legalization parents or it would also say that in the states corruption is legalized not just here very clear imprecise troops. say that here are some lobbying the here are so many other things which in. distin eastern parts of europe would still be construed of corruption was actually a law but what is actually sitting in the state so that's one thing is lobbying united states is something that is legal and is completely transparent and out of the shadow but a lobbying in that foreign minister and european countries or western european

countries will be considered as corruption nowadays. yeah that's exactly the point you see lobbying by itself it's not corruption not the difference between lobbying can corruption sort of simply if you lobby you have to convince somebody read the power of the argument if you're corrupting somebody you you convince him or her we depart of the money so and if you make it transparent it is in the states cities soon some other countries this in europe or support and has a very good lobbying courageously then of course it is much more difficult to use lobbying reform of corruption countries which don't want to do it basically lobbying is still happening but this happening in show it involves a lot of corruption to cascade something have you or your colleagues ever been approached with bribes let's say has anyone ever come up to you and said listen we're going to give you a bribe mr cause and you lay all flesh and stop checking up on us. what happened to

us in the police. many of the go in there must say that i would not like to do this to happen again because. you know what i mean this has been fully support let's try to bribe ever so ashamed when all i was once a police officer or a. sin is to get into case one of the suspects approached me and offered me a bribe to bend in the midst a geisha in them or say that or solicit one of the most worst experience of my life or how can it happen to me what did they do that he things that he can bribe me. into such cases you know it's only a very strict reaction very clear in your actions which helps otherwise you get exposed again and again but he also fought corruption in the world's richest and poorest countries what different challenges to there actually pose. we're there

for us there is a difference in the forms of corruption if you force of corruption in the poorest countries of the world it is so blatant you can see very easily the only problem is there that people are almost accepting kit some sort of survival you can see the same forms of corruption in a very sophisticated form although also in the richest countries of the world and they are still expressing their expression the wish to fight it they have the mechanisms in place and that's why the extent of corruption there is not such a big one but still it happens and when you speak to the suspects in the rich countries basically they give you the same excuses for what why they have done it you know they needed it for the needy the poor that didn't know it is wrong so it's basically people or human nature is the same order place is just difference how many cases we do it in whole whole open it is when it happens but i'm just trying

to figure out the scale if you compare the scale of corruption in poor countries there which are kind of what i think about it i'm thinking probably the corruption scale is larger and richer countries but it's better masked that import countries what do you think. no not really because important countries we're dealing to many many cases of so-called pit to corruption because. it's a low level public officials are forced to take bribes to survive they have to feed their families and for that if their salaries not enough they are forced to take bribes in the extent of corruption there is really huge and because they do it the guys above them they're doing it also in the guise of the doing it also said look at the top they steal millions they don't take it see. sense or pennies in richer countries the extent of damage caused by one individual case of corruption of course is bigger but they're did they don't have petty corruption so they're

dealing pretty high level corruption only which involves much more money but the number of cases is not so big and if it happens it is at least it looks that it is investigated prosecuted educated as it should be and so with other words there is still a huge difference between rich and poor countries. but this is said before on the case of for many a bulgarian other premium a country so it's a gap is closing and when technology becoming more and more a part of our life key thing do you think that human factor in corruption can be minimized well not really all because technology can help the bad guys and technology can help the good guys and usually as always happens you know the bad guys are all asleep some steps forward and they're using modern technology is to say. there are tools in conducting corruption offenses in

a more advanced way. you know when we see the law enforcement services of countries to police the push for services when they want to apply new technologies for they have to have legal grounds for that then they have to be authorized but the legislation and then there they have to be usually authorized by but the judiciary so this sort of takes time in the criminals are busy having to be the sometimes decisive advantage because they're using new technologies. even to increase their wealth and i want to increase their corruption activities but what i meant was that could digitizing the services help actually well that would be one of the ways to prevent you know that would help the see if specifics there was this yes if you if you did digital osa let's say the service is one of the golden rules of prevention of corruption can be applied this is so-called one stop system that

means you don't have to go to the authorities to get different pieces of licenses you just do it in one place you don't even have to see the person in place who's deciding on it and of course this is one of the cases how this can be very effective preventive measure thank you very much for this interesting insight and we were talking today about class professional corruption fighter and had of the elysee the working for bond grabber it was great to have you with us for this edition of savvy in color and i will see you next time so stay with us.

did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open process is critical to our democracy albus. role. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across the silicon we've been a hydrogen lying handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once will just my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem trucks rational debate and a real discussion of critical issues facing america you know ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture.

your friend post a photo from a vacation you can't afford college it's different. the boss repeats the same old joke of course you like. your ex-girlfriend still pins tear jerking poetry keep. norrish. we post only what really matters at r.t. to your facebook you speak when i think air is happening in the last days sad be bold as initially believing in this world when they believe that you know that i mean to be unfair and objective and that they simply don't realize when propaganda is being parts of down we need to go by beyond that and actually engage with the ideas in the information that is presented as well and confront that information and i think that's something that as you mentioned before not everything is black and white not everything isn't taken istic and the more that we can be i guess an open open minded con

a source of information. most of the source i think we're all going to be the. economic down find out. that. if we.

cut. the thousands of palestinians in the west bank then it israel in the largest protest against the ongoing offensive which has killed more than eight hundred paypal. an eyewitness says a british journalist working for r.t. was beaten and tortured by ukrainian soldiers and made quit worrying calls for his release. political deadlock and made an aging economy ukraine's ruling coalition collapses and the prime minister resigned as the bloody internal conflict continues to drain the country's budget.