killed while the girl was taken to hospital in a critical condition the causes of the crash is not yet known. hi coming up on r t international it's cost talk with host pete a level. playing with. the. government system is to help poor people poor women but they're going to duke to change their life and nobody's trying to make money out of them those who want to make money out of them by misusing government concept big time the whole thing and too long shot can do that shit and get all full steam will show.

you surely know where your. mom. comes.

hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle in the crosshairs as israel appears to be preparing for still another assault on the gaza strip on this edition of crosstalk we asked how it got to this point and what israel hopes to achieve. to cross out the assault on gaza i'm joined by my guest again our bell in washington he's a scholar in residence at the center for israel studies at the american university

in new york we have norman finkelstein he's a political analyst and author and in amsterdam we crossed him when rabbani he is a senior fellow at the institute for palestine studies are gentlemen cross-talk rules in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it norman if i can go to you first here how did we get to this point israel says it began when hamas kidnapped and murdered three israeli teens what's your take. i think if you don't mind i'd rather have. a question because he's closer to the situation there ok due deference when we go ahead. well the fact of the matter is that so far we still don't know who abducted and killed these three israeli use israel immediately blame thomas and we also now know that these really government suppressed evidence had very early on that these three youths had been killed in order to claim that it was seeking to resolve the hostage situation

and use that as a pretext to launch a military rampage throughout the west bank from from the far north to to the far south while hamas which usually almost immediately claims responsibilities claims are sponsibility for its actions and if anything exaggerates its activities has this time stated that it has no involvement in this incident so i think we need to look at what israel's broader objectives or in terms of using this incident as a pretext ok dan says it's a pretext you're it where your reply to that well first of all. was behind the kidnapping of those three innocent youngsters who were brutally murdered by hamas operatives there's clear evidence point of third that hamas is behind it and hamas is also driving a reckless policy at the moment israel is fighting

a just war hamas initiated this conflict it started this conflict no other country in the world will tolerate can tolerate would tolerate such an attack on its cities towns civilians and israel's doing its utmost to protect its citizens ok norman would you like to reply to that just war well first of all there is no evidence at this point that hamas was responsible even the u.s. state department which. the national weather service in mount holly new jersey has issued a severe thunderstorm warning for northwestern camden county in southern new jersey

southern philadelphia county and southeast pennsylvania delaware county in southeastern pennsylvania northwestern gloucester county and southern new jersey northern new castle county in northern delaware northern cecil county in northeast maryland west central burlington county and southern new jersey northwestern salem county in southern new jersey until twelve thirty am at eleven thirty pm national weather service doppler radar indicated a line of severe thunderstorms the severe storms extended from number of to perry bill moving east to twenty mph these storms are capable of producing quarter sized hail and damaging winds in excess of sixty miles per hour severe thunderstorms will be near cals down and down even around eleven forty pm newark and scored more around eleven forty five pm ellesmere in eden around eleven fifty pm newport in chester around eleven fifty five pm photographed around midnight glasgow and philadelphia international a.o.p. to around twelve o five am this is a dangerous storm if you are in its path move indoors to

a sturdy building and stay away from windows when it is safe to do so report severe weather to local law enforcement or to the national weather service repeating a severe thunderstorm warning has been issued until twelve thirty am monday for the following county newcastle delaware and cecil maryland in the following counties in new jersey burlington cabin gloucester and so i'm in the following counties in pennsylvania delaware and philadelphia. with blood they were put in sit idly by if moscow and st petersburg would be under the threat of rockets and missiles are you sure you that he wouldn't and so other other leaders in the western world such as countering merkel holand obama. idly by and the leader of israel the government of israel has a commitment to its people to protect them to insure safety is to build in that's what israel is doing at the moment is ok all right i want to i want to read i want norman and myleene to react to that movie would you like to react to that because

all of the leaders in all of the countries that dan just mentioned i mean they don't have a they don't have under captivity under blockade under siege one point six million people go ahead maureen well. done is presenting us is just a series of slogans and unsupported assertions this idea that. israel is offering a ceasefire in fact in the studio who is on record today and you can do. this with far away saying that he has no interest in a cease fire at that point well hamas has stated very clearly. that it is prepared but that israel is unprepared to go so we can either base our positions in analysis and conclusions on on reality or we can just throw around meaningless slogans and unsupported assertions which isn't going to get us anywhere really ok norman jump

in you want to jump in please do. well. dan says that israel is doing what any other country in the world would do first of all as he mentioned among the leaders who would do something he mentioned prime minister cameron david cameron in the u.k. cameron himself who is a great friend of israel a great supporter of israel he himself has described gaza as a prison camp and then you have to ask yourself what rights do people under occupation have to resist occupation and here the international law is very clear the international law says number one and i hope dan will respond specifically to the point i'm making now international law says number one occupier has no right under international law to suppress the struggle for self-determination that is to say that israel has no right whatsoever if the palestinians are resisting the occupation israel has no right whatsoever whatsoever on the international law to

use force in order to suppress the palestinian struggle for self-determination the international law is a little bit more ambiguous on the rights of people on the occupation to use force but most scholars agree that they do have that right so as a broad general statement the palestinians are exercising their right under gaza's done under israeli occupation power gaza is not under occupation gaza since two thousand and five of course it is not. in two thousand five. hundred it has not returned it uprooted soldiers from gaza israel is not in does that i'm very sorry to clarify that ok don't mean to say nothing against i want to clarify is i mean they are moving moving israel is not in gaza please react to that statement. gaza israel removed its military bases and its settlements

from within the gaza strip that's true but i believe it's the position of even the international committee of the red cross that gaza remains occupied territory for among other reasons that israel still controls the air space. the territorial waters most of the boundaries of the gaza strip israel has been imposing a punishing seven year blockade of the gaza strip and so it's quite possible and i presume there are other examples of as well that you can control and occupy a territory without being physically within it it's a form of indirect rule if you will and perhaps even more importantly israel almost will launches these kinds of armed assaults. on the gaza strip as well which is you know and in that sense the legitimacy of israel's actions is

also. very much open to question particularly in terms of international law as norman just explained. ok dan do you want to react to a security council yes because because the u.n. security council adopted the palmer commission report back in september twentieth levon which clearly states that the israeli naval blockade on gaza is legal and so . norman can argue from today until tomorrow that does not the case but the naval blockade of gaza by israel is legal and has been. recognized as such by the united nations ok norman do you want to react to that. you know really a completely different issue i'm not going to get into the fact i'm i'm not going to get into the factual details now but for those who are interested in this small window. and she has said is false on two counts number one as he did correctly say

the palmer commission only dealt with the naval blockade it did not deal with the land blockade number two the un security council never approved the palmer commission report that a report was commissioned by banki moon it had nothing to do with the other branches of the united nations but let's get to the bigger issue then says two things dan says first of all he says gaza is none not under occupation well i have a question for you then you mention prime minister cameron not me you mentioned prime minister david cameron so when david cameron referred to gaza as a prison who are the prison guards who is he referring to when you refer to god so as a giant prison camp who are the guards of that person can israel senior assassinations of nationalists sure you know is your arm didn't. place is keeping citizens doesn't resent your own tell your aunt your mind so you're on television don't make

a full of yourself before the whole world you know i'm not taking a family so it certainly was the other thing on this point gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on gaza stay with with r.t. . waters. spread all over. you haven't the whole world. is a drama. furthermore.

knows what's.

going to. want to thank you. for. changing every minute. the main goal after all of. my. life. nothing. this. is not just a story you'll be shocked if you see the state. t.v.

. was. welcome across the uk where all things are considered. we're discussing israel palestine conflict. ok when i go back to you in amsterdam and the obama administration says quote it supports israel's right to defend itself against these rockets how do you reply to that. well i think very much along the lines the normand has already replied which

is that this is not about the right of a sovereign state to defend itself it's really about whether a state has the right to occupy colonize and dispossess another people i mean the idea or the entire families are being blown to smithereens by the israeli air force in the gaza strip and the best that the obama administration can come up with is that israel has an absolute unconditional right to self-defense which washington will defend uncritically. morally obscene is really the first in all the term that comes to mind here ok dan israel says it always is being mindful of civilians when it attacks in the garden it let's face it historically it happens quite often in every few years but the death toll the civilian death toll is always quite high so what kind of precision is that you know let me it's

a great question peter and i think that it's important to remember in the last three days more than four hundred fifty rockets and missiles were launched into israel into cities towns villages and thank god for that are and don't miss our system that was able to intercept them if not who have been how do you answer the question that israel do and so israel during this time has to respond to this barrage of rockets and missiles and during this entire conflict first of all israel has been continuing humanitarian assistance into the gaza strip israel when it attacks it attacks surgically strikes the targets which are clearly connected to hamas tries to avoid targeting the civilian population actually warns civilians by dispersing leaflets by calling the homes by initiating announcements to stay away from harm from harm's way so israel is doing its utmost to. keep this attack on hamas and not on the citizens of gaza ok norman no matter how you cut it i mean if

you get a leaflet or not this is collective punishment this is collective punishment and that is illegal under international law norman go ahead. let's look at the picture on the israeli side how many people have been killed zero there hasn't even been a single reported injury from these so-called barrages of period of gaza rocket attacks on israel there has been zero casualties and apparently so far no reported injuries as a matter of fact i haven't even read a report of a building being damaged yet in fact i face more danger this past weekend when i went to the coney island fireworks israelis have felt experience suffered from the gaza tax now let's look at the gaza side site so far

sixty nine people have been killed of those sixty nine sixty have been civilians so you have approximately a total ratio of seventy the see a row civilians sixty to zero does that sound like a war now he says it's because the higher you don't know when you first of all you have been there who look and how he doesn't have a. right we don't have a city that's it is the army of these. catering for human she has to become human shields for its operation and it's of launching rockets alongside some schools. and republican homes so there is one when you hit one run fight such a good one innocent people are in harm's way unfortunately regretfully they sometimes are heard israel is doing its utmost not to allow this day and as the rights of the law alright alright alright alright because you know they don't talk

over each other go ahead norman and i want to go to move mean ok go ahead and arm and then you're ok one second then you're reading from the wrong script you're reading from the script from the two thousand eight hundred nine war israel hasn't even come about children are not muslims enough are going to come to you william haas were those that's that's your that's the old script now you're using the human shield script so let's hear this is very common israel has freely admit is fresh over the yes ok then. a fresh evidence sure you just pulled it out of your pocket let's look at the evidence is the only real you show that it's targeting ok. israel has freely admitted its targeting the homes of hamas militants the civilian homes that's not legal under international law even if you give a warning even if you tap on the roof how would you like it than if i tapped on your roof or tower ballroom gave you of warning and

a cell phone i'm going to blow up hear how he dismisses it as you need a ride until i get it right it was a long night like you go through meaning in amsterdam. it's very interesting this time around because. go ahead go ahead ahead jumping. yeah i mean dan is again just presenting us with a series of meaningless slogans and on support a disservice ins including ones that is norman as pointed out even israel is not making and this idea that it's somehow legitimate to blow up someone's house simply because you've indicated you're going to do it and if the person's wife and children are murdered well that means they're human shields by the same logic has announced that it's going to seek to lob missiles at all of israel isn't that considered fair warning considering that virtually every israeli family has

a member who serves in the israeli military i mean you know the civilian noncombatants are either legitimate or illegitimate targets but to take a tribal approach to this which which is to say that it's legitimate to murder palestinian civilians but it's illegitimate for israeli civilians to be targeted well that has absolutely no moral and no political standing one either takes a clear position on. the protection for civilian noncombatants in conflict or one doesn't and if one doesn't i think down should have the decency to admit that he values different human life differently according to his political preferences ok dan would you like to reply to that. to remind us all where we are you know the two other participants norman and when the sound i think came from mars not from planet earth and what we're facing here is

a situation which israel is under a barrage of rockets initiated by hamas which refused to sue spider which continues to use homeschools to fire at israelis which is cynically trying to raise the casualty not number of the seas if there is a curse or a few more it's own for on one of her own purposes last week would know it's last week when israel offered calm for calm hamas only rejected it but went on aggressively to launch continued rocket attacks so this is what i'm talking about so let's be let's all play along and see what we're talking well not pretend but. that's what i thought if there is only you know reading are going to go and lie on ok that's the problem ok when we knew wanted to say something go ahead ok. go ahead . you know why should i play along with with pure fantasy. the fact of the matter

is you want only us to consult today's israeli press where netanyahu states explicitly that israel has no interest in a cease fire and that a cease fire is not on the agenda and massa stating that there is no one to negotiate a ceasefire with now one can either accept that and in dance case seek to justify it because apparently his political principle is that what it anything and everything israel does is right or you know one can start making things up and putting forth these these increasingly bald assertions and bringing in mars and earth and what not but you know facts are facts and at some point people have to deal with them ok norman it's slightly change gears here this time around hamas doesn't have a lot. particularly when we look at egypt and its other arab donors say they're alone standing alone right now and you know it looks like tel aviv sees this is an

opportunity hamas is isolated the entire middle east is aflame right now it's an opportunity for tel of eve to get rid of their greatest nemesis. right but you have to understand why hamas is their greatest misses hamas is their greatest nemesis because they formed a unity government with the palestinian authority hamas is their greatest nemesis because of hamas agreeing to the conditions set forth by the e.u. and the us for. hamas is their greatest. issue.