zones in the judicial inquiry furthermore those restrictions. really knows what's inside the feeling. i was trained. in december two thousand and ten. more likely to be raped in college than in the real world. i don't think simple did that to each other when they knew each other i thought rape was a stranger in the precious. girl complaining about the son of an alumni whose gives millions of dollars to the school why listen to somebody who's going to lose money at a school if schools that make money based decisions are much more common than they

would ever admit publicly. recently said. hello and welcome to crossfire all things are considered on peter lavelle as russian the west slowly turn away from each other the term pivot to asia takes on greater meaning and importance essential this pivot is all about china and its continued rise on the global stage this all translates into a multi-polar world the challenges washington's doctrine of full spectrum dominance . cross-talk the multi. the world i'm joined by my guest rodney shakespeare in london

he is a political and economic democrat and co-founder of the global justice movement in washington we have a son aurora he is a independent defense consultant as well as a specialist in great power relations in trans national security and here in moscow we cross to marks he's a senior lecturer in researcher at moscow state university are gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much appreciate rami if i can go to you first. ukraine it was the. a moment that people are focusing on but the united states and. its allies have been turning away from russia or never embraced russia since the end of the cold war and we see the two kind of moving in different directions i mean i can tell you for sure a lot of people here of had enough dealing with the west because well it's not doesn't keep to its own values and put it that way so what does it mean to you when russia looks to the east i mean are we moving towards a legitimate multi-polar or order well you should have said russia and many other

countries are moving away from the west. the economic power is shifting away from the west america has exported millions of jobs and the dollar is going to some point is going to crash on the political front the situation is horrific the usa has bombed thirty civilian populations since nine hundred forty five is there involved in the overthrow in the successful overthrow of fifty governments and if they democratic the usa gets in there and overthrows them one thinks of iran in one hundred fifty three one thinks of say the congo in one thousand nine hundred eighty three a lend day in chile in one thousand and seventy three and then look at the u.s.a.'s marler farty its caps i mean look at the latest outrage it was actually michelle obama rightly saying bring back two hundred or three hundred kidnapped girls but she forgot to say that her husband's and his in meat. preter setters would have

killed roughly about one hundred thousand girls in the last say but about two decades so you see the world is waking up it is turning away and if you look at the precipitating circumstance if you crane more and more agreements are going to say the world is politically bankrupt economically bankrupt and as for morality forget it morality is going outside the window so yes a multi-polar world is fast developing and so what is this multipolar world going to look like because china doesn't go in there's a joint military alliances what kind of relationship we see russia's pivot to the to asia as well what kind of relationship is china in russia going to have moving forward. well i think. china is looking for a sphere of influence and china is a rising power as this is having a lot of lot of success and lot of it is causing a lot of irrigation in asia pacific russia russia has

a different perspective russia has always been a great power russia was a superpower in the soviet union was and in the russia is as you point out in your in your interview at the russian perspective is that it has been ignored his interest has been ignored have been ignored and there were certain policy that the united states did not abandon in the aftermath of the cold war that when they do expansion and you know the nato expansion internet expression and it's an extension i remember reading the summer books after after the collapse of the soviet union with a bit where we have we had given. assurances that nato would not expand would not come to russia's border borders and then we just went ahead and do it so from russia's perspective containment is very much alive so russia and china have to have always wanted to have a multiple to work now what's happening is in the in the aftermath of two eights

economic meltdown they didn't make situation has has not has not been favoring you know the u.s. interest so in the aftermath of that mark that pulled out of the has become more a fit reality now ukraine crisis is in my estimation at least was probably more one of the most recent examples that of russia other occasion i remember president putin's comment everyone remembers that he said that the collapse of the soviet union was the greatest disaster of the twentieth century so you know people who are who are who are making america's foreign policy and deal d. and d. o. s. and various. bureaucracies should have been studying this that perspective and should have adjusted our. foreign policy according to so from my point of view i'm sad to say that that perspective was not it was not formed it would continue and was very much alive and they do and they do expect they were very much alive now a new variable has been that if nuclear if a country which is not

a member of the e.u. or nato becomes for you first becomes member of the u. and then it moves on to join nato so that kind of you know it send wrong signals to do it through the russia russia or ukraine it's a different a different story but you know russia. i think i think the russian success in in making a big big dent in the uni polar work was the case of syria russia's cooperation with you are and is another example of that russia wants to make it make a serious dent in the sing a war so you know these things are very significant russian chinese exercise military exercises are literally exercise is but mostly it's an exercise is a good example of something a russian could argue for that little sheet and let's talk about this kind of collaboration you know mark it's interesting we that the statement of calling

president putin that the collapse of the soviet union was the worst catastrophe of the twentieth century but it's very interesting again if you look at the context of this if you were to read the next few lines of that speech because i remember in watching it live he talked about how people fell into despair economic catastrophe people finding themselves on the wrong side of the border it's much more then it wasn't even about lamenting the passage of the soviet union as a great power but would when its collapse came about the results of it and that's what he was lamenting most you know and there's there's a lot of people in this country and in use that you're an expert on it i've been living here for a long time there are people here that are absolutely fine turning away from the west because the west never gave russia very much respect ok they can go to western europe and you know go shopping and whatnot but because it is the biggest consumer market in europe but they don't have to adopt western values they can have their own values. you know to be specific when putin was saying that he was referring to

a geopolitical catastrophe. as to the this gap of the gap that is emerging between western and not only russian values but i think the values of much of the rest of the world i think we are seeing here. a clash of civilizations as huntington termed it early in the one nine hundred ninety s. not precisely as he dictated it but it is becoming a conflict of cultures and of civilizations and a primary to that is the western belief you could call it illogical and messianic in the superiority of its own values which it views as universal huntington said in the emerging world of ethnic conflict and civilizational clash the western belief in the universe ality of western values suffers three problems

it is false it is a moral and it is dangerous and that is exactly what we've seen with this attempt to spread western values both by hooking crook you know first through the vector of neo liberal globalisation and consumerism but also through these military adventures particularly since the advent of the war on terror in the two thousands which has first antagonized the rest of the world. and has really put the world order as it was defined in the un charter its belief in sovereignty and non interference in domestic affairs has really dented that has caused a severe shake up there but also it has really hastened the. line of the u.s. probably by about two decades by the immense amount of resources that it has wasted

and for so little accomplishment every state that the u.s.'s touched from iraq afghanistan haiti libya syria now ukraine has resulted in absolute chaos and destruction on the ground there's not a single positive example of successful nation building after this u.s. interference that. can be you know noted on and this waste of resources it's an tagon ization of the rest of the world has actually accelerated the emergence of a multi-polar world order by probably about two decades rodney you are shaking your head in agreement you want to add to that. well yes that was said there's not been a single example of successful nation building it gets down to. a successful nation destruction going back one quick point there has been and is military cooperation

between russia and china for the last ten years at least it takes the form of the shanghai cooperation organization i think that the essence of the matter now is the recognition of the economic bankruptcy of the west the political bankruptcy and the moral bankruptcy that does not necessarily mean to say that other models other ways of thinking are necessarily the best or that there is sort of one way forward but it does mean that everybody is now exploring ways of cooperation in military fields in technology in finance trying to create new banking systems which are free from american control and in this way a new world is actually developing in practice there can be a like to be a very rough and ready process all right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the

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welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle we're discussing the multipolar world. some and i'd like to go back to you in washington i think a lot of people tend to forget that the type of world system we have right now is rather anomalous it doesn't happen very often in and human history where one power is so dominant it's a unit the world right now and we see cracks in that mark was very good in describing that what a lot of people would like to see a multipolar world is to reign in american power american excesses because it has been extremely excessive since the end of the cold war having a multi-polar world will bring greater balance and this is what i think a lot of people want to work towards well you know i understand that i i understand

the russian perspective i understand the chinese perspective and priorities about. moving the war or away from from the from you know what r.t. and i'm going to say instead of every strategic level. all great powers have to have fears of influence. powers want to be dominant and you know these notions. dry wall great powers that include russia united states and as well as china so what is happening now since the two thousand and eight i don't want to how much of my comments you heard because i was disconnected as i was seeing the aftermath of the. meltdown. global environment has been more fear a bull for the lucian of a more bipolar world which is favored by russia and china so sore russia is doing very well china is doing very well in maintaining its year of influence in central asia china is doing very well in maintaining

a sphere of influence in. in the east east asia the united states is. based on i mean the problem is here i'm sometimes in a state with you here the problem is here is that the united states wants to keep it a you know polar world this is why it keeps going after russia's periphery it's so it's in circling china militarily i mean they want to keep it this way full spectrum dominance and this is where push comes to shove because i agree with you a lot of the what the natural course of things is a major countries have major powers have their spheres of influence and that's not necessarily a negative thing it's a natural thing here but washington doesn't want anybody to have spheres of influence it only wants to have its own and with its allies. you know you know peter because i agree with you i have no problem with that sigman but no great power is going to allow its demise willingly or cooperate of the only example is with britain's demise as a great power when united states became became

a successor but there was a congress of interest between between those two countries now russia. and russia are now and united states they have conflicting interests that have been competitive interests but you're right i think our biggest flaw is where i'm concerned we have maintained our policy of containment containment of china continue to continue and russia we have a policy of nato expansion which russia did not like every single president since the bush sr well has been has been expanding nato even though we gave them we gave assurances to russia that we are going to expand nato and when it comes to ukraine it's a special issue. we have studied history when we have forgotten history so you know . we have to we have to have some new approach toward this we do need a new problem here is it go ahead roger jump in go ahead and london. peter american

containment of countries is in fact american expansionism when everyone got the them on the road doctrine that was all in no let's expand into south america and containment today is a policy which puts the usa and its allies right up against other countries it's no good saying that it's in the nature of countries like human beings to want to dominate or to expand what you ultimately have to have as with liberty inside a country if you have to have the spreading of power democracy means nothing without the spreading of economic power in fact economic democracy is the only thing that matters and in the big wide world out there when you have one country dominating that is in fact an outrage the usa has got special operations troops in one hundred twenty four countries they're the ones who are doing anything from smearing the character of people to assassinations this is because there is an american sumption that what it stands for is of worth all the trouble with the usa

it is not economically democratic i won't go into the figures on that and by the way it's scared of a civil war it's got two billion dumb dumb bullets to use for civil war against its own population this country is failing and it's going down and there are new countries arising but please don't talk to me about containment containment is american expansionism and it's been like that for many many decades markie it seems to me that there's this crisis that we know we can look at what happened with syria with libya now with ukraine it seems to me in your opinion on it it seems really the us is in a race or the washington consensus is in a race because it does see china it does see that it's alienating russia russia and china have good relations i don't see them in a mil a military alliance they don't see that at all but having very good cordial relations and eight counterbalance to the west victoria nuland in her elk are in a hurry. because they know they have to get this full spectrum dominance domination

very very quickly and it was talking about a decade or if the game is over yeah i think they're definitely you're correct that they are in a race against the clock because they see that there is these inevitable forces that have to do with the shifting of global capital flows from west to east which you could point its roots as early as you know the bretton woods agreement this is kind of the drawing in of china into the global economy these are inevitable but and this will inevitably have a result on the u.s. is last remaining real source of. power over the rest of the world which is its conventional military dominance and this is fading now i disagree that the united states does not recognize the multipolar world they've recognized that for a while the national intelligence council in two thousand and eight put out the global

trends twenty twenty five report which was all about analyzing the emerging multi-polar world. it's fairly accurately it must be said and even in two thousand and nine during one of joe biden's visit to the ukraine he quite facetiously stated that the united states is trying to build a multi-polar world the u.s. is trying to build a multi-polar world that recognizes it's happening but it wants it to emerge in a form that is of its own choosing and that feels as reflective of its values and the way it hopes to do that is by tying the rest of the world into. the institutions of global governance and other internet international organizations which propagate its values and they've run into a number of problems the complete failure of the g eight the subversion of the g twenty. the failure of the world trade organization to continue its mission and i think. we can look at the trans-pacific partnership as one of the last big gasps

and it's not only of attempt to near a liberal cement the pacific in with the united states with this free trade agreement but it will also be the. core the economic core if you will to further the development of a military spear of containment and alliance against an emerging china in the pacific and i think most of the world should probably hope. that this this attempt to construct a trans-pacific partnership fails son in washington with many people talk about washington's overreach militarily and its alliances here again how does it balance all of that because it has commitments all over the place right now it's baiting russia it's we have the president going to the pacific saying they're going to defend south korea defend the philippines defend panic century etc this is

a very interesting point in history for the united states because it has so many different commitments and with allies that have very different agendas. yes we yes we have different agendas egypt it is a part of the which is which is perceived by by by china as containment but you know you are to. guess are making. a big deal and i don't want to share that notion number one number two they are discussing united states in the past as if the united states and united states dominance in democracies is a done deal what i'm arguing is that in the medium of dipolar war or russia russia's interest in interest have to be respected and that is something that is being argued for this side of the atlantic and e.u. is also arguing that russia's interests have to be have to be recognized russia is a great power russia is definitely can be can be

a recognized as i want to be great power or one of the superpower that is russia is a good power so you know all of these this collision of interests that right no is creating a situation an uncertain situation in which the dumb as the united states is there you're right it is the main piece in the military realm but you know we are going to exploit that we are exporting that in the asia pacific and we're not going to give that up until we are we're doing that lead to africa in fighting terrorism so you know no dominant power is going to be our no great power no uni polar you need to give them no dominant power is going to say ok our demise is a done deal well defined you to take this take these keys and and take over that's going to happen ok i mean i think you need to have brought me in a lot in order here in london right now it seems to me one of the america's greatest exports is to export chaos. if i could just comment on the ten

years yes america thinks it's got ten years to sort of effectively get full spectrum dominance but i don't think so i think the situation is speeding off. at any point now perhaps even within the next eighteen months there will be a sudden crack in the financial economic power of the usa with the point that you're making how does america spread its commitments all way around the world and when that. collapse comes the u.s. power will be suddenly broken and at that point there will be this huge danger of world war because people go to war to hide their own failure all said and done though there is this great movement to multi-polar arrangements and connections between the countries the usa and the west is losing and we could be going to a dangerous period but on balance i am optimistic about the future all right gentlemen we've run out of time many thanks many thanks to my guest in london washington and in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember.

these. clean more zero casualties war this is the great fantasy of warmongering politicians. capturing people is messy what do you do if the innocent killing them easy we reserve the right to kill any person anywhere any time. because you don't listen for they can't get through to

muslims makes these things are very dangerous and politicians get a new kind of power via this technology that is very tempting. in fish farms waters to be the problem me because. i saw it spread all over norway is the most toxic food you have in the whole world. drowned zones in the judicial inquiry furthermore those restrictions. really knows what's inside the feeling.

i asked ray. in december two thousand and ten. more likely to be raped in college than in the real world. i don't think simple did that to each other when they knew each other i thought rape was a stranger in the bushes. girl complaining about the son of an alumni. millions of dollars school why listen to somebody who's going to lose money at the school of schools that make money based decisions are much more common than they would ever admit. to we speak your language. programs you documentaries in arabic it's when you hear. reporting from the world talks books of p.r.p. interviews intriguing stories for you here. in troy.

visit our big. breaking news on the u.s. . position. president obama had said the operation would only go ahead if americans were in danger. ukraine says they could cut the transit of russian gas through its territory as part of economic sanctions against moscow potentially affecting e.u. states that have been to depend on russia energy this winter. the ukrainian army begins the largest cities in the east so with shells are hitting residential areas hospitals and churches already providing aid to children injured in the comp.