to join us i hope that he's going to be taken care of being treated fairly because we know that journalism and journalists are very much in danger reporting trying to do their job in ukraine. start out with you first them is a very general program on western media coverage of the crisis in ukraine in a nutshell how would you describe it. well i would describe it in an art show as bolshevist the main problem is not that the media is controlled by reach and powerful that has always been the case unfortunately but in the case of ukraine the western media is controlled by stupid than venturous so what their western media did in ukraine it was exactly what can a long the lines outlined by vladimir lenin. the moral rules are very simple everything that benefits the so called revolution is moral and democratic everything that doesn't benefit their revolution is undemocratic immoral and should

be dismissed russian propaganda or russian interference or putin's imperialism so from the very first days of the so-called my down protest the western media engaged yvonne kind of percent behind these so-called protesters it preferred not to notice known artists and on them it in general preferred not to notice their generally i would say zena for good nature or all of the new or thought of so it was very surprised when a civil war started in eastern ukraine and when the crimea decided to secede from ukraine. i am very puzzled when they hear from the western media that the wall has become unpredictable no the wall is very pretty much the same it used to be the problem is that the gap between their western coverage and their reality has got so much wider their western readers and television viewers are always possible because

what happens is in direct contradiction with what they have been told by their own media when really you know i'm a child of the cold war looking at you i think it's fair to say the same if this is binary it's very simple good bad or ukrainians good russians bad putin bad. yes. good because he's a friend of the americans and the european union but you know those of us that have studied ukraine know it's a very complicated country and always has been rather fragile but western media just likes a black and white picture it's easy to explain yes we face the media or we speak it all of that this is information and media war and it just knows your own site and the enemy side we speak now in terms of enemies and of allies and of course for the western media which place the role as a sort of well let us say a media or information artillery off western politics there is no division anymore

between western governments and the mainstream media of those countries they are close together and by the way this is a really problematic situation because the media itself claims about itself that it should be a sort of critical. companion or company of politics they should request they should this is not happening anymore i see two very dangerous developments in western media and we can say i'm from germany what we witness here so we have on the one side this is the media concentration when you go into a bookstore in a railroad station or wherever you see a lot of different magazines a lot of different newspapers but when you open them you'll find very very soon that they copy paste the main articles when it comes to geopolitical conflicts for example from each other or they get the articles or translated from somewhere else maybe from us or so on and you will find the same continent with

a different cover page so this is. problematic development which came with the ukrainian crisis very very big and we have the other problem that the net and fringe of that mainstream. media which claim about themselves that they are turning to for something else they. try no two playing well a little role at the big even ing the god not dinner of mainstream media they try to sit at the children's table to get a couple of breadcrumbs so in germany for example some are turning to media switch the site now when it comes to ukraine and they join the mainstream media line of thought they copy paste from the same problematic sources and this is civil war and all these media companies play the role of media army of the media artillery and this will not change i'm completely with mr bobbitt it's not unpredictable it's a very predictable demon you know thinking about some of the things that timothy

snyder is written in an apple again we go into the it goes to orwellian dimensions here saying that russia is a fascist country and that ukraine is this virtuous place of democracy and striving for self-determination i mean i've never been more appalled by two figures in media that get the story completely wrong and they're not even challenge to. well with team of his it's very interesting how he twists. the wards i would not even say facts about wards for example when he argues against their. you know their viewpoint which is very widespread in russia that there are some now in artists participating in the protests on my dime he says all russians are accusing all ukrainians of being fascists i can give you the statistics that the majority of ukrainians you know there were more ukrainians fighting not ism than there were ukrainians supporting naziism and this is exactly true but the problem is that

ukrainians supporting these are very craniums from western ukraine who viewed hitler's army as a liberator first from the polish rule and then of from the soviet rule so these people are now ruled in ukraine you know the party which is now called small bore the party used to be called national social party when it was founded in the name miller sounds familiar yes your national social in one thousand nine hundred eighty means national socialists yes let's face it so when timothy snide is trying to say all your anti ukrainian you say you all ukrainians are fascists he is twisting our wards ukrainians are not fascists and this is why you have this war in the east of ukraine where people simply don't accept their. ninth of may are no longer said abraded a speak three days but turn on them i'd done you had ukrainians from live off you had ukrainians from not played who participated or whose ancestors

rather participated in the anti jewish programs and who in many cases were was then germans when they destroyed the local jewish population and timothy snyder knows that it's not just he did leave deliberately it presents the picture. in a distorted ways so just to let you understand you know this is one of the reasons why western public is so much puzzled by the events in eastern ukraine they say how come people are fighting a war because of the events of that took place between one thousand nine hundred yuan and one nine hundred forty five when hitler invaded the soviet union well for russians and for ukrainians their memory of what war is almost a religious yeah so it's just like a fight between protestants and catholics which might seem bizarre to us now but

which was quite illogical for the people in the sixteenth century you know men will one of the things i found very interesting is that the coverage of odessa now i want to make it clear there are cracks in the western narrative it's becoming more and more apparent but you have the white house and you have brussels are very rigid that they want to keep the narrative that there are no fascists in kiev and everybody is pro russian in the east which is completely false here but this is this is where it's going but would bothers me is that the mainstream takes your talking points exactly from the powers that be this is just a corruption of journalism the very essence of what journalism is supposed to do i think first of all what is very important we shouldn't do that mistake to think that my dorothy of western mainstream journalism is thinking in a historically way that they say this was like this and that in order to what they do they support now anybody with out respecting the certain ideology who is anti

russian and these people who are anti russian are and this is a principle these are the good ones in the eyes of western mainstream journalists and whatever they do when they burn people or life in odessa then it is the bait that i read it in german newspapers that this debate that if those victims may be read burning themselves if. they are it's their. themself guilty of what happened and so on so this is a little bit like we are used from the syrian war where i was reporting a lot of what i say well we come to the point when we say well those christians in syria they behead themself because they are there are no bad forces and the others would never do so so they are supporting anybody in anything what they are doing and russian right now in ukraine we see this in plenty of times and now when it comes to or death to the massacre of four desa where we have press releases even official press releases off the right sect or its of hooliganism terrorist super

nationalist organisation with as i said with links to organized terrorism and when they say themself the molotov cocktails did they have it is still not published in western media they act like that they have walls and something like this and this is the big client so they are silencing down such truth and such news because it doesn't fit to the big picture and because it is not very well come to by western governments who are supporting the key of the new. illegal government right now so as i said the journalism is a part of that western army place the part off of the ideological or the news artillery in this thing and what may not be cannot be it will be not reported all right we're going to be here well we're going to get in with a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on ukraine state authority.

which. is a. your friend posts a photo from a vacation you can't afford. it different from. the boss repeats the same old joke of course. the ex-girlfriend still in poetry keep. ignoring. the post only what really matters. to your facebook news feed.

her leg. her. lips are. playing. league. you got a lot of sneering and. for your. special for your public appearances. there were explicit political groups supporting sports one of the things that certain people who she has become very adept at is controlling the media for example right here c.n.n. do i think c.n.n. is completely telling it like it is no i think we have an agenda. is

is bought and paid for from. playing. what is your comment on what. i think we. should have you with us here on t.v. today i'm sure. right on the scene. first for you and i think you're.

on our reporters. in. the in the. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle remind you we're discussing the media coverage of ukraine. ok team and i'd go back to you here in moscow one of the things i find interesting if we can put ukraine into context it's go all the way back to the end of the cold

war and all of the adventurism that the west under the. nato was conducted and destroyed country after country it seems to me that there's this habit now in western media particularly in the united states that no one wants to see fault in themselves in their own governments here because this was so predictable as you said at the beginning of the program this plan that victoria nuland had was was just nonsense she was just going to break up the country but they had a plan b. if they don't succeed well russia is a very easy enemy to blame everything on and that's exactly what we're seeing right now. well that's true i don't think there victoria nuland planned to break up the country if she thought that the east of ukraine would just submit to the new government the new government would be a pro western and then. the western media said we should all take their deep breath and then wait until your grain becomes completely anti russian and of course

victoria nuland just like john kerry they don't know if lein about ukraine the real picture was much more complicated so when the whole thing degenerated into a civil war they had no clue how to react so they used all the methods you know just blame everything on russia and the media is trying to forewarn this line you know they're looking for russian agents inside ukraine their interview in their mind on the activist but sometimes you get very funny situations for example i'm going to read to you know an associated press report. on the activist who named our listeners of course kyra they asked her about the events in the east of ukraine and she says. these people i mean the russian speaking population of eastern ukraine if they want to leave in russia they are free to pack their bags and move to russia. so from these calls even from the western press you

understand why people in ukraine eastern ukraine are waging war why they're resisting because this is exactly what they read every day in the nationalist newspapers from kiev this is what they watch and hear from television in kiev and in that evolve and in other cities or of ukraine including sometimes their own seat is because there are still some nationalists operating in hardock of even then yes so people watch it they hear it every day and they try to defend themselves and of course victoria nuland had no clue about the existence of such tensions in ukraine she doesn't know anything about what was there walled what to in ukraine for people to understand why you know the insurgents are in slovyansk are ready to die for the memory or all of the second world war i can just tell you of on figure in most of

the places in eastern ukraine from von forth to yvonne third of the population perished during the war with germany there it's why it is sacred that's why they warned given man well you know one of the things you know if you look at kind of popular culture you know people struggle you know hollywood loves these kind of things or people rise up against your presence i mean it's it's a lovely story and it sells very well but they're never it's never given to the people of the east and south of ukraine that they're actually people that they have agency that they know what they want they know who they are they know what they don't want and this whole pro russian thing mystifies me they're anti care they're against these fascistic elements that the united states and brussels have so embrace and brought them to the white house and let them sit down and these are the democrats the jeffersonian democrats for ukraine which is patently untrue again. is

demon pointed out anyone that knows the story knows the facts about who these people aren't and they can't win elections but it will be rigged to make sure that these people can stick around because they're very good friends of the americans and the bureaucrats in brussels yes that we have to see also another problem we have to see that the western mainstream you know how where are they reporting the last twenty years about ukraine and when you check those reports you will see that there is there is one red line going through all those reports and this is the complete lack of understanding the lack of understanding of history of understanding of national identity cultural identity religious identity very important well you would for the people but western mainstream media that's something what is somehow expected by let me call it it's sort of new liberal postmodernist kettle local whether you're given by well you were liberal it's that they say all these things like identity like history like really don't play any

more role we are just individuals and we are happy all together so when you check those reports you don't see that there are journalists travelling there and not even noticing that the people in the east are maybe speaking russian and have another history than the people for example living in love all for how we see in germany so there we're not seeing that they are two different identities in this country and they were trusting well everything is happy ukraine wants to be part of the west so now all of the sudden by a western provocation by the way not by a russian activity now all of the sudden all this fairy tale science fiction they're writing is breaking together and they don't have they don't have any other instrument then to blame even russia why this is very very easy we were talking in the beginning about the cold war media but when i checked the cold war media when i go into an archive it was not at all as aggressive as it is now and so i absolutely

did. easy to read at the t.v. eight it's absolutely trivial to reactivate. that's that's the point so would they reactivate this they put more aggression in it they threaten not anymore trust governments they threaten journalists we know what happened to graham phillips we know that there was a bounty on his head off of ten thousand dollar and it's not even virg a single line in western media what is happening there what is done by i say it now in an ironic way by our western allies including if what they are doing it's not even worth a single line that was more objectivity on those terms during the cold war you know dimitri barbiturate i think it's very interesting because of the media coverage of what's going on in ukraine and we have to remember people in east ukraine south ukraine do not live in a vacuum but they obviously see the west now is their enemy did was in doubt a six months ago but now they know they know who washington trusts and is funding and will give arms possibly to if they haven't already i mean this is again western

media and it's drumbeat of ignorance is what it is there are separating ukraine more and more is every day passes but that is true but on the other hand it's interesting that if you look at the latest trends in the western media it's a kind of forced optimism there are right now that they play all the time in my hands again i have a reuters report you know which says that electoral districts in the sky are still operating sole hold fully presidential elections will be held there and then ukraine will be peaceful again the other drumbeat that they use is that all we've got that. site he told me to walk asunder minus to go out into the streets and to place a fire the c.t.a. he's going to put the things in order. and they forget that they have been given

izing are not back now to for twenty years at least calling him a pro russian by india and you know a robot baron all of these names. the problem is that the presidential election it won't solve anything because first it won't be held in then yes and the gonski which make up fourteen percent of their ukrainian electorate and second even if it's held their people are not going to be satisfied with a choice between coal and nationalist and yulia tymoshenko a nationalist and a many people later this is the choice that people all over ukraine will be given. that the western media keeps making the same mistake we have seen it in iraq just remember how the us media was upbeat about the elections in iraq in the means to oversee the war in that country they said that or yes now we have these shia sunni thing hundreds of people die every day they will always charge up but there will be

an election the shia will get their share in the parliament the sunni is will get their share and things will settle down of course that didn't happen and it's not going to happen no but the media keeps sort of sane what the boss want and the bosses want to be optimistic they want to believe they have this almost religious belief in elections and courts and then sold called human rights in the way they call this the i for me they're all just a fetish it's a cover for for interests of people who don't have the interests of the of the people of ukraine in my mind well you know but david just put it perfectly as i was having a conversation with him when you as you think about this for upcoming presidential election will certainly will not be legitimate we just have to get past this election i said so you want us all to forget about all of the illegal activity and the the the destruction of the sovereignty of. ukraine by newlin and her thugs you

just want all the to get that and the shining radiant future it will start on the twenty fifth of may but peter let me just quote if you're going to victoria nuland why did i go to the word go ahead told the right sector she said that we want a right sector these fascists yes they want the right sector to become a political party if they did meet her eyes right after the presidential election it's like saying to him we will recognize you and you will be part of the political establishment right after you are appointed the chancellor in one thousand so if you read you know after that you get to meet a true artist and we're going to have peace in europe yes ok how much fun we have left here and we have forty seconds many will go ahead this program is called media madness now i know why go ahead forty seconds. but trust just to bring the point to the truth i few on elections so we have two presidential elections coming now within the next weeks we have the ukrainian election and the syrian election of the

president in ukraine we know that half of the country we find on our map doesn't want to participate because they don't feel anymore as part of the ukrainian state they are our government say these are legally elections the people should participate we have on the other side the presidential elections in syria and the beginning of june where my government in germany tells the syrians in germany not to participate that they shouldn't also in syria the people who want to participate so we see when it comes to democracy it comes to double version just doesn't speak we are in journalism we're running out of time fascinating discussion many thanks to my guests in berlin and in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember possibly. leave .

i'm abby martin the stories we cover here you're not going to hear any right other big story that i have to add same time there's a reason they don't want you to now is. that you should be completely outraged now let's break the set. when the unit peon union promise to met ukraine become part of it it clearly contributed to the bathtub ration of tensions within ukraine and ukraine will not become part of the european union who won't tell tales ukraine absolutely doesn't have the economic level to become part of the e.u. or then. i stray. in december two thousand and ten. more likely to be raped in college

than in the real world. i don't think that to each other when they knew each other i thought rape was a stranger in the bushes. girl complaining about the son of an alumni who gives millions of dollars to the school why listen to somebody who's going to lose money at the school of schools that make money based decisions are much more common than they would ever admit publicly. see a series of school days of trying to clear the squares of people who are going to turn into you know much more interesting to get everybody to.

touch me no no law no weapons of my own why would any. one's think this say the. least uses to meet women. sometimes for nothing much. to see the evidence improvements to. it's not just. it still could still be just if you see a stage eight looking to us but speech was. still. do we speak your language. news programs and documentaries in spanish matters to you breaking news a little tuna to feingold's stories. for you here.

in troy spanish to find out more visit i. told you my language as well but i will only react to situations i have read the reports. put the no i will leave them to stay current a comment on your latter point i come on to say that it is nice to carry a car as all your talk is no god there. is no more we somewhere. when you have a direct question be prepared for a change when you throw a punch be ready for a battle freedom of speech and down to freedom to crush. those the media leave us so we leave the media. by the seat cushions securely play your party isn't going. to push you is that no one is asking with the guests that

you deserve answers from it's all on politicking only on r t. ukraine steps up its shelling of the government stronghold of dawn yet despite local militia urging a truce to avert a humanitarian catastrophe plus. looting and street violence in the u.s. state of missouri is anger over police killing of a black teenager boils over witnesses say the eighteen year old was unarmed when he was repeatedly shot by the officer. and israel of hamas agree a new three day cease fire made hopes for a longer truce from the devastating month long war has left more than one thousand eight hundred dead.