protesters to get out and prove the exact point these demonstrators are trying to make meanwhile the lawyer for dorian johnson a friend of brown's who was with him the day he was killed told m s n b c that police have yet to interview johnson despite the fact that according to his lawyer he was just inches away from the scene of the shooting perhaps that's because his version of what happened that saturday is vastly different than the one being portrayed by police while they claim that brown assaulted the officer in question and reached for his gun johnson says the police off that the police officer told him to get the f. on to the sidewalk and began choking brown when they didn't immediately obey according to johnson when brown tried to flee he was shot multiple times now listen obviously we have to let the full investigation run its course but until this community starts to get some real answers we're only going to see these protests rightfully intensify and let's break this.

they are very hard to take a. look. at how to act like that right there. it's been over a year since the first n.s.a. story broke based on a trove of leaked documents since then it's been a constant stream of articles shedding light on programs that u.s. intelligence agencies had previously kept classified but since the amount of information is so vast perhaps it's time we take a step back and go over

a few of the most stunning revelations of the past year starting with the hard evidence that the national security agency was spying on u.s. citizens in june of last year guardian journalist glenn greenwald reported that the n.s.a. was collecting the phone records of the millions of arising customers across the u.s. but later we learned that it wasn't just verizon leaked documents reveal that the sweep communications involved practically every telecom in america that in less than twenty four hours we learned about prism a program the n.s.a. used to obtain direct access to the servers of giant tech companies like google facebook and apple this announcement was particularly controversial because many of these companies first denied their involvement altogether learning only later that the tech giants were required by law to comply with government surveillance requests even without a warrant from here the leaks took off we learned. secret data collection programs like x. keyscore international surveillance tactics under another program called boundless

informant and ultimately that the n.s.a. has nearly total unfiltered access of countless secure servers now by now these stories had gone viral but the source of the leak had yet to be identified and then came the unmasking of edward snowden as the source prompting not only an international effort to capture the american whistleblower but heightening tensions between nations in the process like that time bolivian president evo morales is plane was forced to land in austria following a conference in moscow after suspicions that snowden might be on the plane and what alice was stuck at an airport terminal in vienna after france portugal and spain all refused to allow the jet through their airspace in the event quickly turned into a diplomatic blunder and while the u.s. never officially commented on the event backlash from many latin american leaders prompted apologies from the spanish and french governments with the spanish ambassador to bolivia even delivering a letter saying that quote spain was involved in the situation against its will but

the bolivian plane fiasco was only the beginning of a downward spiral for western diplomacy by october another memo expose the n.s.a. was monitoring the communications of at least thirty five world leaders with yet another article that brought the real number to one hundred twenty two now among the most scathing condemnations against the u.s. against u.s. espionage came from brazilian president dilma rousseff who accused the n.s.a. of violating international law by collecting the personal information of brazilian citizens and of course it's not just the u.s. who is involved in this mess more recent revelations show that america has at least eight international spying partners in europe and southeast asia and this far as reform goes the closest thing we have is the usa freedom act a bipartisan bill that gets some limitations to surveillance but still leaves a lot to interpretation and that's to say the least. and just this week a u.s. district judge has ordered that the u.s. can keep it secret court orders classified under the reasoning that they might

reveal methods needed to protect national security so for now it seems like the fight to reform surveillance will continue to be an uphill battle not ending anytime soon especially if the biggest leaks are still yet to come. i. i n.s.a. revelations have completely redefined the notion of intelligence gathering and have shed light on technologies that were unheard of only a few years ago but to former n.s.a. insiders saw the rise of the surveillance state long before the world had even heard of edward snowden bill binney was an n.s.a. technical director from one thousand nine hundred sixty five to two thousand and one and kirk wiebe was a senior analyst in the n.s.a. from one nine hundred seventy five to two thousand and one in the months after nine eleven the two men witnessed the complete transformation of the agency and were forced to retire due to their grave concerns over the direction of the n.s.a.

and both whistleblowers came on the show earlier this summer and abbe first asked to be what happened to the mass data collection system called thin thread that he created which had built in protections for american citizens the fact part of the analysis part the part that allowed them to deal with massive amounts of data and index it was taken in to manage that was the way they actually were able to build surveillance on the entire world that that particular program was that powerful and that's why we put in those protections so that it would be impossible for them to abuse that that was the first thing they removed when they took it into the new program still are with and. and kirk after you guys found out about what they had done how did you bill and other intelligence insiders address these concerns within the government and how were those concerns matt from officials. in reality we had been trying to address what was going on that in a say in terms of modernization for years. and it's kind of like

nine eleven the events of nine eleven were the culmination. in our minds of our failure to get those at the agency to see the potential of what we were developing what bill had the advantage in the same thread project. and it was within six weeks of nine eleven that we had movements myself bill binnie retiring from n.s.a. in absolute disgust because we had failed we had been trying to tell them they were going to fail and we lost the battle. and bill in two thousand and seven the f.b.i. raided both of your homes along with other officials who had spoken out on the false promise that you guys had leaked classified documents or information to the press what was that experience like for you and were you surprised at the aggressiveness of the response. yes the cia i have been cooperating with the f.b.i.

in their investigation into the new york times. for months several months about four months before the raid and when they came at me. you know it's hard to understand why they would do that and why they were here and pointing guns at me to so and my family so it's all a question of you know what was this all about and finally it didn't take me too long to figure out that what they were really doing was trying to intimidate us because this was like the morning of the second day after going through all this is testimony to the senate judiciary committee about the terrorist surveillance program that the president had talked about which was he only talked about the warrantless wiretaps at the time but there were many other programs involved at cia and also n.s.a. and that included spying on everybody in the country and building a knowledge and understanding of their lives of everybody as they were living them you know so it was a matter of pulling actually it was a computer program that was reassembling dossiers. and everybody in the country and the world eventually so it was clear to me at that point that that's why they were there to keep us quiet so i started getting mad at these people while they were

still there and so that's when i reported to the f.b.i. the real crime that they were sent there which was bush cheney hayden and tenet that is the core core of individuals who decided to support the constitution and violate all the laws basic a lot of the laws that we had in statutes at the time and i told them what it was still when programming what data they were using how they were organizing what i was doing i was telling that to all the f.b.i. agent on my back porch so the only one who was a cleared for it was the one fellow who was the special agent in charge. he was the only one who was cleared for that program the only thing he could do when i was doing that was look at the floor because i knew what i was doing was causing him a problem because i was telling all these other agents f.b.i. agents what what crime was being committed but that they weren't cleared for they were not cleared for this program so now we had they had to have a meeting outside before they left my house and all the agents around the cars they couldn't leave until you instructed them on what they could not say wow and current

and in the case of thomas drake of course that went a little bit farther to say to talk about exactly what the f.b.i. did to him well let me frame it a little bit for you in november of two thousand and nine bill binney and i received a communication from our lawyer after we were raided in two thousand and seven we went have izzy's on a lawyer rather than pay to. the lawyer was a former u.s. prosecutor so we thought he'd know how to deal with the government. he told us to lay low in november two thousand and nine he sends an e-mail and he says guys i just got a call from the department of justice they're coming after you. so bill and i made an appointment with him and we went into baltimore and sat down in his desk and. he was completely. surprised by this move he thought it would go away well it wasn't so that was the end of that for the holidays it was november when we got this

message come january we get another e-mail there's a new prosecutor for the government the old one had left government and we are being offered letters unity if we are willing to sit down with the f.b.i. and the prosecutor for this are going to justice and sir questions about thomas drake and so bill and i agree we'll do that we knew tom had done nothing wrong easy let's go so we go down to the f.b.i. facility just outside d.c. in maryland and separately we address questions of questions mostly were questions like. did you meet with on more occasions and of course we had had lunch was can sure said hello but nothing very interesting and talk about mulching papers destroying evidence and no story. so long story short we get letters of

immunity in february saying we are under no further threat for this entire matter bill bailey and i bathe and through their attention. and we think it's because he's the one that went to the press. and i say was very much trying to end the government for that matter send a message if you work in the intelligence community and you talk to the press you're going to get hammered. coming up the second half of abby's interview with n.s.a. whistleblower kirk wiebe e n. bill binnie stay tuned. to the nixon decided to close the gold window and turn the monetary system into a painting on a dollar bill and in exchange for this deal with a fee out devil the u.s.

economy would never end we were told we could lead lives to balance currency without cost. i've got news for you the portrait of uncle sam has been hit in the basement of fort knox behind the barbarous relic called gold and that portrait of uncle sam my dear people chose attire haggard and ugly old dude from monetary to power tree to school murder empires of dead and banking immorality. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open process is critical to our democracy albus. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across a cynical we've been

a hydrogen lying handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once will just my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem the truck rational debate and a real discussion critical issues facing america to find a job ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture. how do you. in reality radiation is still lives away and it is killing our children they are dying also heart conditions asked most leukemia but feel stories are still hiding the truth for most of all and i don't know why don't they have children on their own because you heard so much to know that they can't protect our children from this.

do we speak your language from. all these programs and documentaries in arabic it's all here on. reporting from the world talks books fifty yard p. interviews intriguing stories for you to. stick in trying. to find out more visit our big teeth dog called. and welcome back and now the second part of abby's interview with former n.s.a. employees kirk we b. and bill binnie. i want to start with you when obama took office he was briefed on the programs he decided to go forward with them why do you think he did this given the fact that he ran his presidency on a platform of transparency and strict constitutional hearings. i think it's the

result of what i call techno speak when i say he talks about what it does it tends to put it in somewhat difficult abstract terms it also uses words too to see so for example being a sale say we're not doing such and such under this program. but what program are they doing it and so these are correct statements in front of congress but they're meant to mislead. to be deceptive so i'm not sure that that obama ever do good or bad and really what was going on you're never sure that anybody does congress swears that they get briefings all the time but still don't understand what certainly didn't look like bush. and i find it hard to believe that obama a constitutional one at least want to know hey what is this not spying that we have to believe in before snowden made his revelations you had said that the u.s.

had turned into a police state i was worried if you can expand on why you made that comment and what's known as revelations that kind of expose that have helped further cement that notion well i said it because they knew that the capacity of collecting of information on everybody mostly their focus was on the united states initially but it's spread around the world so it's really collecting data on everybody in the planet and i knew the capacity of the systems involved there was no limit on what you could do with them that i saw anyway when i left there so the point was then how were they using it and that came out with director mueller the f.b.i. when he testified to the senate judiciary committee on the thirtieth of march of two thousand and eleven on the web where he said he got together with the with the d.o.d. and created this day. base well that told me that he was interrogating all the email collection that they were making you also had access to the phone network he said he talked about phone data too not at that it but in another one so they were using this data for police operations and so it was reuters published

an article on it in august of last year talking about the d.a. in the saw of the special operations division in d a which was specifically to look at the data that n.s.a. collected to find criminal activity and then they would use that to go arrest people and after the arrest you know if they'd say part way here in this parking what wait for a truck to pull in go arrest the guy bring the drug dog in and go sniff out the drugs and then you can't the policy was you could not use any of this information documented in any court records and you couldn't tell the judge who were the prosecuting a defending attorneys about it you had to do a parallel construction that meant they knew where the data was so you go through do your normal policing that you would do to find evidence and then you substitute that for the n.s.a. data as the basis for arresting them but i call that basically a planned program purgery policy run by the department of justice of the united states now it's not only the united states now because they share that with foreign

counterparts so that goes all the way around the world so they're subverting the entire judicial process here and around the world so they're really undermining democracy everywhere. it's important to point out this is the five eyes this is not just it's not just us it's a lot more to. come first the criticism from journalist glenn greenwald for the way that he's distributing the leaks i want to see if you're happy with the process of how the leaks have been distributed you know i it's almost a moot discussion for me because we have a government subverting the constitution. that's what we should be focused on not the. details of greenwald's leaks. i think for an. indoctrinated non intel person he's probably done a pretty good job people have asked me when you look at what has been leaked by the greenwald snowden team. i tell people what does it mean to you when

you see prism they say nothing there's a word i don't know what it means. you don't and so most of water on these slides are a bunch of names shown in relationship to each other but it's difficult to interpret what's going on because the words are few and if you're not part of this system it's difficult to know you have to infer bill and i have an advantage we've dealt with this kind of speak before so we can infer things from it but i think they've done a pretty good job. and you know snowden is clearly not an anarchist who doesn't want to abolish the government doesn't want to abolish the n.s.a. has made a deal with these journalists to actually vet every document to consult with the government as we found out he's very careful in the way that he wants this distributed bill are you any comment on that. well i. basically when i look at that i see what he's what he's released and what they

publish and i don't see any damage to the united states at all because after all when they claim there's this is irreparable damage they're doing that just to hype up the attack on the person what they're what the slides are really showing is that we do all this stuff which everybody knew we were doing anyway so the other the other point is very simple what alternative people in the world have if you don't want to use the phone that's that that's a choice you could make but you can't use any phone right so you have no choice just because we're monitoring phones you have to if you have if you have to communicate you have to use a phone or e-mail or something so you have no choice that's like all the verizon people know their information being transferred the government but they have to change companies why what is their choice to another good point made in the united states of secrets is that this is not just about government surveillance this is about corporate surveillance but people don't seem to care as much because it's used for advertising collection instead of intelligence gathering but it's very scary when you have an apparatus working in conjunction with each other that's

exactly say exactly the point see the industry can come and arrest you and put you in jail right governments can but when they cooperate they can get extra dimensions to what the government has knowledge in terms of knowledge of the government has instituted bill you brought a really good point about a minute ago when you said you know there's people we knew about this for ten years you guys have been saying that you've been yelling on the rooftops as well as a couple of people like thomas drake what is your response to people who say snowden hasn't brought us anything new we already knew about this the documents don't tell us anything that the response is pretty simple this is irrefutable evidence up until then they could have denied it and said no that's not really too true but now with the evidence that's why he took all the data out because that was the only way to convince people now he had the evidence which was the government's data so the government can't they cannot there's no way they can deny it so we have documents i mean you brought up a good point as well when you said that people are focusing. on character assassinations and the way that this is all being done why why are people focusing

so much on snowden and greenwald and not the leaks that's a good question. you know over to europe right now there's a greater debate about this entire matter base seem to appreciate the threat more than the typical american we're spoiled we've now enjoyed this country for two to three hundred years but we've never lived under a dictatorship we've never lived under the nazis we've never lived under this the secret police at the germans and many of the europeans have and they remember those harsh conditions and they don't want that to return so i think that's why they understand it and get it a little bit better but i think most of the polling that i've seen pretty much the majority still side with snow on this one which is encouraging everybody is all about the constitution it really is no matter how much they try to frame it here.

really is about the content of the doc like it's like the wizard of oz you know attention of the man behind the curtain right ok. bill i want to play another clip from the stone interview where he talks about what it means to be a patriot. these a patriot doesn't mean prioritizing service to government above all else being a patriot means knowing when to protect your country knowing when to protect your constitution knowing when to protect your country. from the violations of it and encroachments of adversaries and those adversaries don't have to be foreign countries. that clip really resonated with me do you agree that you sometimes need to break the law in order to stand up for what's right bill well let's put it this way there are several things that are involved here first the oath of office that everybody. it takes in government including the congress and the president and everybody else is to protect and defend the constitution not

defend the government not defend an agency not defend the president so that's the first thing secondly. the point that he was making in terms of standing up is is really what the responsibility of citizens is that you have to stand up to defend the constitution you cannot sit by and be quiet if you acquiesce to it and you know if nobody speaks up you could end up with a state like the nazis developed that's fundamentally what it is and we're on that path now with section ten twenty one of the n d a were talked about giving the president the power to declare somebody a terrorist threat take them up the street with the military incarcerate them indefinitely give them no due process that's that's not the nazi order of forty eight issued in one thousand thirty three that's exactly what they did if you go on the web you can read it it says basically the same thing and at what point are they going to stop following orders and stand up for what's right what's your opinion on the usa freedom act of course this is it's been transformed quite a bit passed in the house now in passage in the senate disappointment. much

disappointment while it narrows method data collection using council tops from a known or suspected bad person. when you do the math the numbers are still huge numbers of innocent people that get swept up into this vacuum cleaner. all along bill and i and others have tried to build a system the thin thread that we talked about earlier that was focused very closely on known bad people and their relationships with others is yet to be determined. but collecting all the measured data but encrypting it to protect. the identities of all those innocent people out there that gave you the best chance to find things you didn't know about and also focus analysis on the things you do

know about and do your job and make sure you cover that well. to see abby's full interview with bill binney and kirk will be go to youtube dot com slash breaking the set finally tonight i'd like to call attention to andre stan in a russian photographer covering the war in ukraine who's been missing for nearly a week before reporting before reporting from ukraine standen had covered conflicts in libya and syria and on monday the international federation of journalists released a statement saying quote if stand in has been detained in ukraine then we appeal for whoever is holding him to release him immediately he is a journalist not a soldier and as such as entitle to move freely and report the truth without the threat of intimidation violence or detention students disappearance is just the latest in a disturbing trend of detentions and kidnappings of journalists in ukraine here's hoping for his safe return.

to try to. people are going to go to the more you know like. it's a sure thing everybody. knows the law oh well. i want to live like that. so you know. this is. sometimes for nothing. this. is not just you still will be shot if you see the state. t.v. . but he was.

i restrained. in december two thousand and ten. more likely to be raped in college and in the real world. and unthinkable did that to each other when they knew each other i thought rape was a stranger in the bushes. girl complaining about the son of an alumni gives millions of dollars to the school why listen to somebody who's going to lose money at the school if schools that make money based decisions are much more common than they would ever admit publicly.

dramas the truth be ignored. stories of the risk refuse to notice. the faces change the world lights never. come to picture to. hold you from rooms to glow. drop to. the. eugenics. vulgarized darwin science punishment for an uncommitted crying i was there are things to learn from believing in eighty feebleminded still today for the few i don't know why. i still don't know why genetic improvement through forced sterilization the basis for nazi ideology. just sterilizing. go to the point of death. for years rarely discussed.

till now i'd really rather not talk about that right. heavy artillery attacks killed at least three people in the outskirts of town yet in east ukraine with residential areas pounded by shells as the army tries to retake the city from local militia. fast food leaving a sour taste for russian regulators who are suing mcdonald's over quality against the backdrop of escalating tit for tat sanctions between moscow and the west. and washington considers evacuating iraqi refugees blockaded by jihadist fighters it's also sending over one hundred additional military advisers to help kurdish troops amid concern the u.s. is getting too deeply involved.