when they knew each other i was a stranger and the question this. girl complaining about the son of an alumni gives millions of dollars to the school why listen to somebody who's going to lose money at the school of schools that make money based decisions are much more common than they would ever admit publicly. hello and welcome to talk more all things are considered on peter lavelle since the end of the cold war the media environment has transformed almost beyond recognition today there is a global battle for hearts and minds and the west mainstream media is losing that

war. to cross-talk alternative in mass media i'm joined by my guest george samuel in new york he is a senior research fellow at london metropolitan university and author of the new book obama's for peace nato's humanitarian war on yugoslavia in washington we have austin peterson he is the c.e.o. of stone gate and editor of the libertarian republic dot com and in paris we cross to any much shown she is a former british intelligence officer and writer all right crosstalk rules in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it george if i go to you first here in new york we're calling this program hearts and minds and when i watch the state department briefings with jen psaki i have to wonder if the mainstream narrative is really losing this battle to make people believe in the elite of today. well it's very hard to say it's. the

mainstream media has obviously taken a upon milling through the emergence of new media. it's certainly taken a pummeling through the emergence of new outlets such as he however i do think that the mainstream media do have very powerful legs. i can watch the sunday morning talk shows and i see the same faces the same cries for american action american bombing american intervention and the alternative media then. shows up a few hours later with a very appropriate denunciations criticisms. ridicule but what really counts the people who come out of those shows and shake their fists at russia or syria or the people who are writing in the year or speaking on the alternative media i wish i could say it was the latter i am fortunately i think

that it's leave people who are on the mainstream media who set the agenda who dominate the conversation that's a very good point i asked him i go to you in washington i suppose we do still react to myself in alternative media still do react to what the mainstream dictates as the narrative we do and we don't you know it's interesting that you bring this topic up peter because just this week variety magazine published an article about the diminished credibility of the night time news anchor if you remember during the vietnam war walter cronkite had a great impact on the united states with his reporting on the vietnam war right now over at a.b.c. news it's george stephanopoulos there good morning america host that really has the most credibility over there people now don't look at the mainstream media as their main source of information anymore now people go to get breaking news to social media outlets or they go to opinion blogs or people that they trust people like glenn. for example for people go and read my blog because they're looking for an

alternative viewpoint to the mainstream media narrative i feel as if we're in right now sort of the change time the change over a period from the credibility of the mainstream media being the only outlet for resourceful reporting where people are looking for people who are more attached to news stories as they happen on the ground why would i want to read what george stephanopoulos has to say in new york city about the situation in ukraine when i can go and i can read newspaper reports and blogs immediately from the situations as they're happening on the ground or i can subscribe to the twitter account of a reporter that's going on the ground i sort of feel as if right now is the time when the mainstream media is having a big changeover and that's why they're having a loss of revenue that's why they're having to close down bureaus that's why c.n.n. is having to change their reporting style so i feel like right now is a good time for freedom of press and for freedom of expression despite some of the crackdowns by intelligence agencies on newspapers like the guardian for printing the snowden leaks if you remember when they destroyed their hard drives and things

like that any you know what kind of environment are we living in here because you know acid which is right the loss of revenue the loss of audiences but i would say the loss of credibility as well. i agree with all those points and they are working into a very can dismiss model from the twenty twentieth century and we have new generations growing up the digital natives who get all their information over the internet so they will model is no longer feasible charging for news is no longer feasible but yes i think credibility is the key problem here and this really threatens the route seventeen in the run up to the war against iraq in two thousand and three where all our corporate media rushed to support the invasion they repeated the lies and the fake intelligence pointing to mainstream news by our intelligence agencies and that has been found to be absolute fabrication and yet for example in the u.k. on the very eve of the debate in the houses of parliament about whether to go to war this was the process that happens where the lies were fed into the mainstream media. we had screaming headlines saying things like person forty five minutes from

five minutes money getting and that's i think when the the end of the credibility began now of course and as often mentioned people do go to twitter they do want to see what's going on on the ground and they just don't trust the corporate media because they can come ration of control of most of the corporate media now it's in the hands of a very very very small number of very powerful media companies who have courts very close to the power to govern it so there's that sort of credibility issue to georget i sometimes think this is the age of disbelief because it's really interesting is that we have so many outlets available to us now more than we could have imagined twenty years ago but media myself as a journalist i have to spend a lot of time to get the right frame story here because i know what. political opinion certain blogs out of individuals certain institutions and you have to really keep your nose to the grindstone to really understand what's going

on my specialisation is the part of the world that i live in and i it's a lot of work you know antiwar dot com is a really good source but it's still a lot harder than i think most people think if you want to find out what's. called the truth though that's absolutely correct. there is now so much information just simply swamping the internet that it is very hard to sort it all see what is reliable the problem is that the new media. rely very much on the traditional media because the traditional media. were able to. use i.d.'s very expensive to run a bureau it's very expensive to have reporters all over the world so what goes on in the alternative media the very social media is essential.

transmission of stories that have been gathered in the traditional media so it's not like the new media are actually doing a lot of news gathering themselves because it's very hard so while it's true that the traditional media are losing revenue and they're doing worse but in many ways that is a good thing because it means that they are even less able to run the bureaus to run the reporters to do the news gathering and they get more and more reliant on the same wire services and almost same reporters and so much of what happens is gathered in the traditional media is sounds exactly the same because it's all coming from the same sources so what we have in the social media. i'm going to acknowledge and i'll go ahead and i want to jump in go ahead please do and i mean i take the point you're just making but i think he's missing there is a sort of elephant in the room about the new media here at the moment and that is the model that is started out with we keep leaks where they did produce the new

stories because they they got the information wrong and they could put the information out directly to the people who needed to read it to citizens without filtering it through the prism of news gathering organizations so this is sort of radical transparency and sure we have its problems but of course it spawned a whole new generation of leaks type sites things like globally and secured to open a whole range of other bewildering leaks and i think this is this is the new model of media this is the alternative media and that's why the old model i think it's just playing catch up now are sort of one of the. sort of go ahead. i don't know it's got are sort of the whole point of the are going to go ahead i just want to talk about i want to talk about consumption patterns here you know the atlantic published an article that week that took a look at the analytics for what kind of news and journalism that people are consuming and they basically they compared it to cotton candy versus broccoli limit if you look at it people will be when they're appalled like al-jazeera. well saying

what kind of news and journalism do people want and they found that most people are liars they'll say i want good hard hitting news and journalism but what they really want if you watch their consumption patterns is buzz feed like a list of calls of cat pictures and so if we look at this from an aspersion active of corporate control versus consumption patterns you have to understand that nowadays it's the consumer that has the power in the in the media market and the consumer is deciding by by their clicks exactly what kind of journalism happens around the world so i don't really see any more of a sort of overarching conspiracy by corporate media elites of controlling of the narrative where it's really just a matter of revenue it's where is the money going i actually just created a brand new website that's aimed at that cotton candy market and it's called liberty viral dot com and we don't do any real hard journalism other than to sort of rehash of the argument that have already been made we make buzz feed stylistical and i mean it explodes consumers want this kind of media and so yeah i'm a curious and i want to sort of you know sort of what you think the role of the

what they could say was a brave new world what the consumer wants is not necessarily good for people kate george you know and that mattered i'm sure you could print media on us is i'm sure it's great people are looking at. you know let's go with data ratification brave. go ahead go hard and i know that's where the consumers want the right absolutely absolutely. they want to yeah but the whole point is that you know where in the news media business and we are trying to create an informed public we are trying to show that we have an informed citizenry that can we take good sound decisions of policy i mean if you could just put pictures of kids and cats fighting dogs and little children messing around in the on the beach i made sure i mean we can you know how much can we say people total zillions to everybody i mean really are we supposed to save people from themselves the good aussie go ahead. well i'm going.

saying you can't save people from themselves the media the pedal what they want you have to give them what they want or you're going to be out of business george last word before the break well no i mean i really don't think that way i really don't think we should be in the business of catering to the lowest common denominator because then i mean the you know let's just have it will just tabloid newspapers every well let's just have you know all you know let's nothing but scandals i mean that's all right you know i don't know you know saying no we're going to go which they won't break us are after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the media environment stay with us. leave the things we want. is.

your friend post a photo from a vacation you can't afford college different. your boss repeats the same old joke of course you like. your ex-girlfriend still tense tear jerking poetry keep. ignore it. we post only what really matters out r.t. to your facebook news feed you got a lot of sneering and negative press for your engagements here in russia especially for the public appearances for food and even though they weren't explicitly political you were just supporting sports. news that certain people's regime has become very adept at is controlling the media for example i'll say it right here c.n.n. do i think c.n.n. is you know completely telling it like it is no i see have an agenda i think through is is bought and paid for.

audio in reality relation is still there and it is killing our children they are dying of a heart condition asked me leukemia but the authorities are still hiding the truth from us and i don't know why don't they have children on their own heard so much to know about the accounts protect our children. think. we're going to do. that you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy correct albus. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and our proximity we've been hijacked by handful of transnational

corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers one built up i'm tom mark and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem try rational debate real discussion critical issues facing death by ready to join the movement then walk the . legal. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle mind you we're discussing mainstream and alternative media.

and i might go back to you in paris it seems to me another trend here is that news outlets that claim to be objective are being more and more often punished by the consumer because i think most people believe that this whole theory of objectivity is really gone that's why they go to fox and i'll even admit that's why they come to our t.v. they want they want something much more edgy ok beyond cats and dogs and going to the beach but this objectivity thing i think is it's a car wrecks. no it doesn't work anymore that's why c.n.n. is being punished so much. well i know that the american press is traditionally prided itself on its objectivity but i think that's a long gone from the u.k. media should we think and where it's been well known for decades that the spin and the political slant of newspapers is always dictated by the owner by the the owner of the outlet so for example. and his news international group running newspapers like the sun and the old news of the world could legitimately say that he could

actually pick governments because by throwing the weight of his media outlets behind chosen politicians he could sway the voters and i think this is very dangerous path to go down for democracy where these relatively anonymous corporate parent can have such an impact on the democratic direction of the country and it's not conspiratorial to say this is being laid bare through the phone hacking scandal in the u.k. the degree of interconnectivity between top politicians and between media baron so this goes on time and time again plus of course there's a whole battery of other laws which can be used to control and coerce the media into reporting what the government or the military or the spies want them to report up to an include being. asked in washington go ahead you know really really have media barons have free speech true i mean come on use their money and power to try and influence people or they're doing is engaging in free speech that's what the media is you talk about you use the word control and certainly i agree with

many of your points but you know free speech doesn't exert control people still have the option to choose what sort of media they consume and again rupert murdoch certainly is a free citizen and gets to decide what he wants to print publishing people get to choose what they consume so i don't really like the idea that people get to say oh well you are controlling the media because no one really has a monopoly on the media you know russia today exists fox news exists and i never really believed in the concept of objectivity when it came to reporting i mean you're not objective when you choose what story you want to report very good choosing a story that you want to report your if that's your deciding. what the narrative is going to be for the day and i think that this whole idea that there was never any sort of objectivity has sort of been like a wall over there are over the eyes the conservatives have never in the united states have never made any bones about the fact that they are not being objective they're biased but they're fair and the reality is that this is the liberals in our country who have said you know a.b.c. news all were objective in the media the republican party just came out with an announcement in the last month saying that they are going to start picking and choosing which debates which networks are going to be allowed in the whole

presidential debates because they know that it's a farce that the liberal media in the united states has any semblance of objectivity they never have they only convinced people that they were george but it seems to be because of what i've become you know hey i'm any because of what any did say and what austin said one of the things that i think that's happening and i find it bothersome in some ways is that we have parallel universes you could have murdoch in his little universe there and then you have people people on twitter on facebook and they're getting more and more divorced and then i think this can be very dangerous because people feel a sense of despair not being enfranchise in society they have their own small communities believe me i know that from facebook personally. yes that's exactly right and so what we now have is these news new news shows in which a standard narrative is presented i mean most recently we had the standard narrative of russia and the ukraine and the standard narrative what is putin up to

these putin want to revive the soviet empire and that's a standard narrative now of course if you don't want to hear that and if you want to hear a much much better and a much more balanced account of what was going on in the ukraine there were other sources however what was important was what was happening in those mainstream outlets because they were shaping policy they were the ones that was getting their message across to the policymakers on the policy makers were listening to them the policy makers were not listening to you. alternative universe and the alternative routes are so it seems to me they're beginning to go i think you're going to take any job in paris go ahead and that is just just a very quick point on that for example although the mainstream narrative about the need to intervene in syria over the last few years was being pushed to go towards intervention and for example the u.k. politicians were keen to follow that narrative however there was so much distrust

in the mainstream media's next which around syria after what had happened in iraq and after what had happened in libya that the pressure came from below in order to stop cameron from actually getting an intervening so it can you know that this distrust. between the consumers of the media and the mainstream media is growing and i think it is beginning to influence some of the political decisions are soon. because george well i'll just say that i think that the issue of the pressure from below is yes it's up to a point true but there was pressure from below before the invasion of iraq i mean there was an enormous amount of number of protests throughout the world millions of people demonstrated on the eve of the iraq invasion it didn't make one bit of difference syria there was a there was a vote in parliament and there was a change we don't know the exact mechanics of why obama backed away the last minute but obama was clearly planning on bombing i mean we were i was away i know the

exotic initial are going on as i said how to do it because of the rise of the power go ahead of it and i know why obama backed away it was because he had he had no support from either the republican party or the democratic party because the difference between the war in iraq and the war in syria is that the anti-war activists didn't have a half a million to a million fans on facebook back in two thousand and one because the social media power didn't exist you see things have changed in the last decade people like myself we now have huge audiences which we can use real drama democratic power. or against our legislative or our elected officials when you talk about democracy i mean social media is the real democracy now if there is a new initiative that's going on such as the push for a war in syria people like myself an antiwar dot com can go out and we can now tap our wide array of resources that we have in order to put pressure on our legislators and the pressure from the american public came in the form of democracy it came in the form of electronic mails and that came in the form of social media i

mean no one wants to have a say a negative social media campaign aimed at them and no one even knew what that was back during the war in iraq but now nobody wants their facebook page assaulted by you know the tea party anymore so i think that things have really changed in the last decade and anything so i read it and i really don't think george. george jump in and i you know i really don't think so i think that was a clear case that the ground fell from under the feet oh i i'm under the there was a great deal of collapse in the government's case i mean it was clear that i mean it. was written about this extensively the intelligence agencies had pulled the rug from under obama's feet he really didn't have any backing for his claims and obama was looking for a way out and president putin provided him with a way out obama doesn't care and the good ministration doesn't care about people on facebook of public opinion the sputnik opinion does not change foreign policy now

but the i didn't do care years ago price and i was never going to get to an authorization of military force the president was never going to get an authorization of military force from this congress because the elected officials our country our presidents name our presidents never get all the rights that you and i did only to the judiciary had already begun hatred as it was going to go to paris and probably one of the interesting thing i agree with and says we have the advent of facebook and we have you tube very important twitter etc etc but one of the things the broader picture understand ok we have but one. very importantly it has been mentioned on this program was the war in two thousand and three against iraq in the subsequent occupation which is disastrous but we also have the financial crisis of two thousand and eight two thousand and nine which i think got a lot of people looked at the establishment in the media if they were betrayed by the you know the one percent were saved and bailed out within a matter of months everybody else was left in the gutter and i think when we get

these new tools again going back to my analogy of parallel universes in the brokerage business model as you mention but we are going in different directions here there is in power from below i don't know if it's ever ever works out very well in the end but people do feel empowered. and they are beginning to yes people are finding their individual voices and they're losing their deference for authority and i think they're more willing and more able to challenge that broken authority and that's what we're seeing now one of the pushback from that in my view it's almost like an arms race between we'd the people trying to hold onto our rights and protest against some of these inequalities and injustices and illegal wars and then what i suppose is now the military security state gathering more powers that they can watch us and survey us and push back against our fight for our freedoms more effectively as we saw when they crushed occupy in two thousand and eleven and. just started putting c.c.t.v. cameras up all over the place to spy on them where they were putting people in

prison just for being demonstrations on the streets where they deemed occupy london to be domestic extremist terrorists these are people exercising their democratic rights and so people can see this threat so people are mobilizing and i think it's a shot in the arm for our right yes george you know they're just saying that the because of the time that is very simple i used against those tyrants ok we're almost out of time here george i always thought the. claim that if those are looking for terrorists but no they're not they're looking at people like us on this program to make sure we stay in line. no that that's exactly right i mean that's the point about the internet this is that yes i mean that we it was it has people can now write their own blogs it also means that governments can monitor exactly what everybody is up to just to go back to what andy's point about the occupy movement i mean you'd have thought that this movement which captured people's imaginations now with all the social media occupy should have had a huge impact i mean you know because you can do so many more things now with the

social media than you could a few years ago and yet it was a repressed and it also fizzled out but you know i remember you know the strikes of the miners strikes of the nineteenth seventy's in britain was just one guy with a payphone and yet they were able to mobilize the masses of people moving from one . plant to another copeland it in the is a sophisticated technology you need a movement you need all the organization so social media all one part of the jigsaw but they know by itself is just not going to do all that model fair amount point thank you very much fascinating program many thanks to my guests in new york washington and paris and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember prostate. presumably soon.

that nixon decided to close the gold window and turn the monetary system into a painting on a dollar bill and exchange for this deal with the cia devil the u.s. economy would never end we were told we could lead lives to balance currency without cost. i've got news for you the portrait of uncle sam. has been in the basement of fort knox behind the barbarous relic old gold and that portrait of old will send my dear people chose a tire and ugly old dude from monetary to power tree to school murder empires of dead and banking immorality.

i restrained. in december two thousand and ten. more likely to be raped in college and in the real world. i didn't think people did that to each other when they knew each other i thought rape was a stranger on the bus this. girl complaining about the son of an alumni who gives millions of dollars to the school why listen to somebody who's going to lose money at the school of schools that make money based decisions are much more common than they would ever admit publicly. on marriage and in the financial world. series to goldman's coming out stopping to only take you know to the credit not going to get a new life there are few and they're off. eugenics was eugenics vulgarize ation of darwin science and punishment for an

uncommitted crying i was never allowed to learn from believing in eighty feebleminded still today for the few i don't know why. but i still don't know why genetic improvement through forced sterilization the basis for nazi ideology don't stop at just sterilizing groups and go to the point of death she did for years rarely discussed. till now i'd really rather not talk about that right.

now it's international tonight france says it will join the u.s. in arming kurds in iraq because washington and its allies get deeper involved in the comp. at least three people dies ukraine's army pounds the outskirts of the net suite shells the un says more than two thousand people now have already been killed . and the news reportedly pressuring other countries not to expand their trade with russia is moscow's food takes its toll we'll take a look at how the trade wars are affecting europe's economy.