over the killing of eighteen year old michael brown by a police officer right cops clashed with dozens of protesters who refused to clear street launching tear gas and shooting rubber bullets into the crowd now journalists at the scene word sparred spared from the violence tweeting that they too were hit with tear gas and rubber bullets and washington post reporter wesley lowery even tweeted that police tried to force local media to leave the scene if they didn't want to put their lives at risk and because after all you wouldn't want images of police brutality against largely peaceful protesters to get out and prove the exact point these demonstrators are trying to make meanwhile the lawyer for dorian johnson a friend of brown's who was with him the day he was killed told m s n b c that police have yet to interview johnson despite the fact that according to his lawyer he was just inches away from the scene of the shooting perhaps that's because his version of what happened that saturday is vastly different than the one being portrayed by police while they claim that brown assaulted the officer in question and reached for his gun johnson says that police off that the police officer told

him to get the f. on to the sidewalk and began choking brown when they didn't immediately obey according to johnson when brown tried to flee he was shot multiple times now listen obviously we have to let the full investigation run its course but until this community starts to get some real answers we're only going to see these protests rightfully intensify and let's break this. they are very hard to take. that act like that right there.

it's been over a year since the first n.s.a. story broke based on a trove of leaked documents since then it's been a constant stream of articles shedding light on programs that u.s. intelligence agencies had previously kept classified but since the amount of information is so vast perhaps it's time we take a step back and go over a few of the most stunning revelations of the past year starting with the hard evidence that the national security agency was spying on u.s. citizens in june of last year guardian journalist glenn greenwald reported that the n.s.a. was collecting the phone records of the millions of arising customers across the u.s. but later we learned that it wasn't just verizon leaked documents reveal that the sweep communications involved practically every telecom in america that in less than twenty four hours we learned about prism a program the n.s.a.

used to obtain direct access to the servers of giant tech companies like google facebook and apple this announcement was particularly controversial because many of these companies first denied their involvement altogether learning only later that the tech giants were required by law to comply with government surveillance requests even without a warrant from here the leaks took off we learned. secret data collection programs like x. keyscore international surveillance tactics under another program called boundless informant and ultimately that the n.s.a. has nearly total unfiltered access of countless secure servers now by now these stories had gone viral but the source of the leak had yet to be identified and then came the unmasking of edward snowden as the source prompting not only an international effort to capture the american whistleblower but heightening tensions between nations in the process like that time bolivian president evo morales is plane was forced to land in austria following a conference in moscow after suspicions that snowden might be on the plane and what

alice was stuck at an airport terminal in vienna after france portugal and spain all refused to allow the jet through their airspace in the event quickly turned into a diplomatic blunder and while the u.s. never officially commented on the event backlash from many latin american leaders prompted apologies from the spanish and french governments with the spanish ambassador to bolivia even delivering a letter saying that quote spain was involved in the situation against its will but the bolivian plane fiasco was only the beginning of a downward spiral for western diplomacy by october another memo expose the n.s.a. was monitoring the communications of at least thirty five world leaders with yet another article that brought the real number to one hundred twenty two now among the most scathing condemnations against the u.s. against u.s. espionage came from brazilian president dilma rousseff who accused the n.s.a. of violating international law by collecting the personal information of brazilian citizens and of course it's not just the u.s.

who is involved in this mess more recent revelations show that america has at least eight international spying partners and europe and southeast asia and as far as reform goes the closest thing we have is the usa freedom act a bipartisan bill that gets some limitations to surveillance but still leaves a lot to interpretation and that's to say the least. and just this week a u.s. district judge has ordered that the u.s. can keep it secret court orders classified under the reasoning that they might reveal methods needed to protect national security so for now it seems like the fight to reform surveillance will continue to be an uphill battle not ending anytime soon especially if the biggest leaks are still yet to come. i. i n.s.a. revelations have completely redefined the notion of intelligence gathering and have

shed light on technologies that were unheard of only a few years ago but to former n.s.a. insiders saw the rise of the surveillance state long before the world had even heard of edward snowden bill binney was an n.s.a. technical director from one thousand nine hundred sixty five to two thousand and one and kirk wiebe was a senior analyst in the n.s.a. from one nine hundred seventy five to two thousand and one in the months after nine eleven the two men witnessed a complete transformation of the agency and were forced to retire due to their grave concerns over the direction of the n.s.a. both whistleblowers came on the show earlier this summer and abbie first asked to be what happened to the mass data collection system called thin thread that he created which had built in protections for american citizens the facts part of the analysis part the part that allowed them to deal with massive amounts of data and index it was taken in to manage that was the way they actually were able to build surveillance on the entire world that that particular program was that powerful and

that's why we put in those protections so that it would be impossible for them to abuse that that was the first thing they removed when they took it into the new program still are with and. and kirk after you guys found out about what they had done how did you bill and other intelligence insiders address these concerns within the government and how were those concerns matt from officials. in reality we had been trying to address what was going on and in a say in terms of modernization for years. and it's kind of like nine eleven the events of nine eleven were the culmination. of it in our minds of our failure to get those at the agency to see the potential of what we were developing what bill had vented in the thread project. and it was within six weeks of nine eleven that we ended up at loomis myself bill binnie retiring from

n.s.a. in absolute disgust because we had failed we had been trying to tell them they were going to fail and we lost the battle. and bill in two thousand and seven the f.b.i. raided both of your homes along with other officials who had spoken out on the false promise that you guys had leaked classified documents or information to the press what was that experience like for you and were you surprised at the aggressiveness of the response. yes the cia i had been cooperating with the f.b.i. in their investigation into the new york times. for months several months about four months before the raid and when they came at me. you know it's hard to understand why they would do that and why they were here and pointing guns at me to so and my family so it's all a question of you know what was this all about and finally it didn't take me too long to figure out that what they were really doing was trying to intimidate us because this was like the morning of the second day which was he only talked about

the warrantless wiretaps at the time but there were many other programs involved at cia and also at n.s.a. i think that included spying on everybody in the country and building a knowledge and understanding of the lives of everybody as they were living them you know so it was a matter of pulling actually it was a computer program that was reassembling dossiers on everybody in the country and the world eventually so it was clear to me at that that point. that's why they were there to keep us quiet so i started getting mad at these people while they were still there and so that's when i reported to the f.b.i. the real crime that they were sent there which was bush cheney hayden and tenet that is the core core of individuals who decided to support the constitution and violate all the laws basic a lot of the laws that we had in statutes at the time and i told them what it was still when programming what data they were using how they were organizing what i was doing i was telling that all the f.b.i. agent on my back porch so the only one who was cleared for it was the one fellow who was the special agent in charge. he was the only one who was cleared for that

program the only thing he could do when i was doing that was look at the floor because i knew what i was doing was causing him a problem because i was telling all these other agents f.b.i. agents what what crime was being committed but that they weren't cleared for they were not cleared for this program so now we had they had to have a meeting outside before they left my house of all the agents around the cars they couldn't leave until he instructed them on what they could not say wow and curt in the case of thomas drake of course that went a little bit farther to say the least talk about exactly what the f.b.i. did to him well let me frame it a little bit for you in november of two thousand and nine bill binney and i received a communication from our lawyer after we were raided in two thousand and seven we went have izzy's on a lawyer rather than pay to. the lawyer was a former u.s. prosecutor so we thought he'd know how to deal with the government. he told us to lay low in november two thousand and nine he sends an e-mail and he says guys i

just got a call from the department of justice they're coming after you. so bill and i made an appointment with him and we went into baltimore and sat down in his desk and. he was completely surprised by this move he thought it would go away well it wasn't. so that was the end of that for the holidays it was november when we got this message come january we get another e-mail there's a new prosecutor for the government the old one had left government and we are being offered letters of immunity if we are willing to sit down with the f.b.i. and the prosecutor for the are going to justice and sir questions about thomas drake and so bill and i agree we'll do that we knew tom had done nothing wrong easy let's go so we go down to the f.b.i. facility just outside d.c.

and maryland and separately we address questions of questions mostly were questions like. did you meet with on more occasions and of course we had had lunch was sure said hello but nothing very interesting and the talk about mulching papers destroying evidence and no sorry tom is an honest guy so long story short we get letters of immunity in february saying we are under no further threat for this entire matter billy and i bathe and through their attention. and we think it's because he's the one that went to the press. and i say was very much trying to end the government for that matter send a message if you work in the intelligence community and you talk to the press you're going to get hammered. coming up to the second half of abby's interview with

n.s.a. whistleblowers kirk wiebe e n bill binnie stay tuned. to the nixon decided to close the gold window and turn the monetary system into a painting on a dollar bill in exchange for this deal with a fee out devil the u.s. economy would never age we were told we could lead lives to balance currency without cost. i've got news for you the portrait of one call center has been hit in the basement of fort knox by the barbarous relic old gold and that portrait of multiple set my dear people chose attire and ugly old dude from monetary to power tree to school murder empires of dead and banking immorality.

i restrained. in december two thousand and ten. more likely to be raped in college than in the real world. i didn't think people did that to each other when they knew each other i thought rape was a stranger in the bushes. girl complaining about the son of an alumni use gives millions of dollars to the school why listen to somebody who's going to lose money at the school if schools that make money based decisions are much more common than they would ever admit publicly.

to genetics but eugenics vulgarized darwin science punishment for an uncommitted crying i was instrumental in eighty feebleminded still today for the few i don't know why. but i still don't know why genetic improvement through forced sterilization the basis for nazi ideology they don't stop at just sterilizing. go to the point of death. for years rarely discussed. till now really rather not talk about that right. sure kirby was able to build a new most sophisticated robot which all unfortunately doesn't give

a darn about anything mission to teach creation why it should care about humans in the world this is why you should care only on the dog. welcome back and now the second part of abby's interview with former n.s.a. employees kirk we be and bill binney. curst want to start with you when obama took office he was briefed on the programs he decided to go forward with them why do you think he did this given the fact that he ran his presidency on a platform of transparency and strict constitutional hearings. i think it's the result of what i call techno speak when i say talks about what it does it tends to put it in somewhat difficult abstract terms it also uses words to

deceive so for example being the sales say we're not doing such and such under this program. but what program are they doing it and so these are correct statements in front of congress but they're meant to mislead. to be deceptive so i'm not sure that that obama ever do good or bad and really what was going on you're never sure that anybody does congress swears that they get briefings all the time but still don't understand what will certainly didn't look like bush. and i find it hard to believe that obama a constitutional one at least want to know hey what is this mass spying that we have to believe in before snowden made his revelations you had said that the u.s. had turned into a police state i was worried if you can expand on why you made that comment and what snowden's revelations have kind of exposed that have helped further cement that notion well i said it because they knew they had the capacity of collecting of

information on everybody mostly their focus was on the united states initially but it's spread around the world so it's really collecting data on everybody in the planet and i knew the capacity of the systems involved there was no limit on what you could do with them that i saw anyway when i left there so. the point was then how were they using it and that came out with director mueller the f.b.i. when he testified to the senate judiciary committee on the thirtieth of march of two thousand and eleven so on the web where he said he got together with the with the d.o.d. and created this database well that told me that he was interrogating all the e-mail collection that they were making you also had access to the phone network he said he talked about phone data too not at that it but in another one so they were using this data for police operations and so it was reuters published an article on it in august of last year talking about the d.n.a. in the saw the special operations division in d.n.a. which was specifically to look at the data that n.s.a.

collected to find criminal activity and then they would use that to go arrest people and after the arrest you know if they'd see. part way here in this park in what way for a truck to pull in go arrest the guy bring the drug dog in the drugs and then you can't the policy was you could not use any of this information documented in any court records and you couldn't tell the judge who were the prosecuting of defending attorneys about it you had to do a parallel construction that meant they knew where the data was so you go through do your normal policing that you would do to find evidence and then you substitute that for the n.s.a. data as the basis for arresting them but i call that basically a planned program purgery policy run by the department of justice of the united states now it's not only the united states now because they share that with foreign counterparts so that goes all the way around the world so they're subverting the entire judicial process here and around the world so they're really undermining

democracy everywhere. it's important to point out this is the five eyes this is not just it's not just you it's a lot more. criticism from journalist glenn greenwald for the way that he's distributing the leaks i want to see if you're happy with the process of how the leaks have been distributed you know it's almost a moot discussion for me because we have a government subverting the constitution that's what we should be focused on not the. details of greenwald's leaks cetera i think for an. indoctrinated non intel person he's probably done a pretty good job people have asked me when you look at what has been leaked by the greenwald snowden team. i tell people what does it mean to you when you see prism. they say nothing to me there's a word i don't know what it means because while that's right you don't and so most

of water on these slides are a bunch of names shown in relationship to each other but it's difficult to interpret what's going on because the words are few and if you're not part of this system it's difficult to know you have to infer that now bill and i have an advantage we've dealt with this kind of speak before so we can infer things from it but i think they've done a pretty good job. and you know snowden is clearly not an anarchist who doesn't want to abolish the government doesn't want to abolish the n.s.a. has made a deal with these journalists to actually vet every document and consult with the government as we found out he's very careful in the way that he wants this distributed bill are you any comments on that. well. basically when i look at that i see what he's what he's released and what they publish and i don't see any damage to the united states at all because after all when they claim there's this is irreparable damage they're doing that just to hype up the attack on the person what they're what the slides are really showing is that

we do all this stuff which everybody knew we were doing anyway so the other the other point is very simple what alternative people in the world have if you don't want to use the phone that's that that's a choice you could make but you can't use any phone right so you have no choice just because we're monitoring phones you have to be if you have if you have to communicate you have to use a phone or e-mail or something so you have no choice that's like all the verizon people know their information being transferred the government but they have to change companies why what is their choice to another good point made in the united states of secrets is that this is not just about government surveillance this is about corporate surveillance but people don't seem to care as much because it's used for advertising collection instead of intelligence gathering but it's very scary when you have an apparatus working in conjunction with each other that's exactly exactly the point see the industry can come and arrest you and put you in jail government scam the one. cooperate they can get extra dimensions to what the government has knowledge in terms of knowledge of the government as you bill you

brought a really good point about a minute ago when you said you know those people we knew about this for ten years you guys have been saying you've been yelling on the rooftops as well as a couple other people like thomas drake what is your response to people who say snowden hasn't brought us anything new we already knew about this the documents don't tell us anything that the response is pretty simple this is irrefutable evidence up until then they could have denied it and said that's not really too true but now with the evidence that's why you took all the data out because that was the only way to convince people no you had the evidence which was the government's data so the government can't they cannot there's no way they can deny it so we have documents i mean you brought up a good point as well when you said that people are focusing on character assassinations and the way that this is all being done why why are people focusing so much on snowden and greenwald and not the leaks that's a good question. you know over to europe right now there's a greater debate about this entire matter they seem to appreciate the threat more

than the typical american we're spoiled we've enjoyed this country for two to three hundred years but we've never lived under a dictatorship we've never lived under the nazis we've never lived under the stasi the secret police at the germans and many of the europeans have and they remember those harsh conditions and they don't want that to return so i think that's why they understand it and get it a little bit better but i think most of the polling that i've seen pretty much the majority still side with snow on this one which is encouraging everybody is all about the constitution it really is no matter how much they try to frame it here really is about the content of the dogs like it's like the wizard of oz you know attention of the man behind the curtain right ok. again. bill i want to play another clip from the stone interview where he talks about what it means to be

a patriot. patriot doesn't mean prioritizing service to government above all else being a patriot means knowing when to protect your country knowing when to protect your constitution knowing when to protect your country. from the violations of it and encroachments of adversaries and those adversaries don't have to be foreign countries. that clip really resonated with me do you agree that you sometimes need to break the law in order to stand up for what's right bill well let's put it this way there are several things that are involved here first the oath of office that everybody takes in government including the congress and the president and everybody else is to protect and defend the constitution not defend the government not defend an agency not defend the president so that's the first thing secondly. the point that he was making in terms of

standing up is really what the responsibility of citizens is that you have to stand up to defend the constitution you cannot sit by and be quiet if you acquiesce to it and you know if nobody speaks up you could end up with a state like the nazis developed that's fundamentally what it is and we're on that path now with section ten twenty one of the n d a were talked about giving the president the power to declare somebody a terrorist threat take them up the street with the military incarcerate them indefinitely give them no due process that's that's not the nazi order of forty eight issued in one nine hundred thirty three that's exactly what they did if you go on the web you can read it it says basically the same thing and at what point are they going to stop following orders and stand up for what's right what's your opinion on the usa freedom act of course this is it's been transformed quite a bit passed in the house now in passage in the senate disappointment. much disappointment while. it narrows measured data collection

using counts of tops from a known or suspected bad person. when you do the math the numbers are still huge numbers of innocent people that get swept up into this vacuum cleaner. all along bill and i and others have tried to build a system the thin thread that we talked about earlier that was focused on very closely on known bad people and their relationships with others yet to be determined. but collecting all the data but encrypting it to protect the identities of all those innocent people out there that gave you the best chance to find things you didn't know about and also focus analysis on the things you do know about and do your job and make sure you cover that well. to see abby's full interview with bill binney and kirk will be go to youtube dot com slash breaking the set finally tonight i'd like to call attention to andre stan in

a russian photographer covering the war in ukraine who's been missing for nearly a week before reporting before reporting from ukraine stand in had covered conflicts in libya and syria and on monday the international federation of journalists released a statement saying quote if stand in has been detained in ukraine then we appeal for whoever is holding him to release him immediately he is a journalist not a soldier and as such as entitle to move freely and report the truth without the threat of intimidation violence or detention students disappearance is just the latest in a disturbing trend of detentions and kidnappings of journalists in ukraine here's hoping for his safe return. how do you do reality mediation is still there actually and it is killing our children they are dying also hard conditions he asked no leukaemia but the old

glory is now still hiding the truth for most and i don't know why don't they have children on their own because you heard so much to know that you can't protect our children. that's right. people are going to. want to feel like. it's a sure thing everybody. you know. oh well. that's why. it's so. this is. nothing. it's not just

he still can still be judged if he sees the state. t.v. . but speech was. you got a lot of sneering and negative for your engagements here in russia especially public appearances. they were explicitly political you were just supporting sports . certain people's regime has become very adept at is controlling the media for example right here c.n.n. do i think c.n.n. is completely telling it like it is no i think. it is bought and paid for.

france says it will join the u.s. in iraq as washington and its allies get ever deeper involved in the conflict. russia's deputy defense minister talks exclusively to rebuff u.s. allegations that moscow has been testing cruise missiles. into ninety seven treaty with washington. three more people died today as ukraine's army pollens the school shelves the u.n. says more than two thousand people have now been killed in the war.