welcome to. shevardnadze what do you do when war robs you of your childhood i guess today lost his mother in a fighting in sudan and became a soldier at the age of seven the kindness of strangers and music helped him overcome his childhood in extreme violence manual job is now a wall famous hip hop artist and he's here today to share his extraordinary life story with us. there are three hundred thousand child soldiers in the world most of them affording you know africa. dragged into war deprived of families forced to kill. children good soldiers how does one escape such a feat and what happens if they do. a manual joel child soldier turned hip hop artists welcome it's great to have you on our show today i just want to go back and

remind our viewers where you started you were only about seven years old when your mother was killed in the second sudanese civil war then you became a child soldier and were told that a k forty seven would be your only parent that it would be taking care of you from now on this is how you really felt that your life depended on this weapon to survive. when you're in a training center you actually train to be told the gun is your father and your mother so you live. on it. and. it's a situation where people get transform and good brainwashed to. do whatever i do being trained to focus so the call is to become more powerful than you believe in because you're told even if your father is again is this cause you can clearly. you

know another thing that you have said is that the children who joined the rebels they wanted to revenge did you at that age understand what revenge was. well i remember. what prevents wars then but now i can't put it into the words i was really angry as a kid you see when you lost everything you own and. everything that is your world disappear in front of you when you're tall your mother is gone and then because the war itself different people experience it differently and now when you're told that people are destroying your home they're in such a stretch of police and you're given a description you don't need to think twice so you want to act out of their motions . going to war and becoming a soldier i just wonder what it's like for a kid after talk to a man who joined the army in world war two at the age of twelve i've just talked to

him recently now what he was telling me is that for him it was never an adventure and a thrill more than anything else what was it like for you was it again i will least at first. well children don't or you only die once so you kind of live don't understand don't know when you die it's it so a death moment you're taken by adrenaline you want to know what's going on but for me my desire and i wanted to kill as many muslims are not obsess forceable this was one second i wanted a bike. well is that children don't know that he only die once and that's because they're actually fearless state don't know where it's about but did you ever fear that you were going to be killed did you think about that. yes sometimes you know. the thing that i didn't warn was i didn't want to get shot in my i don't my leg broken i actually prefer to die than to be injured because i've seen people

who have been injured how they cry and so in or like a kid you know it's like in your head you choose where would i be shot and so on of the shirt where this meat will not break in my bone not my i know of my own heart and my leg so you for do you know that's how you think as a child in the real war and it happen the bullet. depends whichever place it's aim it doesn't care where to shoot have you ever been one dead i've been wounded definitely but not a gun. well this one think is sad actually mark me as just wanting a bicycle now when the army was recruiting q did they give you any incentives did they tell you like if you take a gun and kill people that will give you something in return for example a bicycle or were you just doing it for free where are you getting any a warrant whatsoever for what you were doing you know those nori awards or such

like somewhat to being paid for doing something you know the country has been destroyed people were fighting for their survival so and you could see from the articles that there's something you know when you go to a house and you attack the people in the house and that children they'll try to join in fighting. but now this is not the villages this is like the whole community this is all tribe uniting again it's. a force that want to wipe them out as we do not know that they want to wipe us out we don't know what's was the reason for the war in fact one when the war happened i got the world was ending because my mother here tells me a. we're all the children of god and one day the world is going to end and people are going to turn and each other and so you look at it as a child you just get confused with different messages and so i didn't really understand what was going on but now i have an idea of what actually was happening

. when you were at the camp what were you told were told why you were fighting where you trained at all or you were just given guns and told go and shoot actually we were trained in the come it was a difficult trainings six to eight months. first stepping in the cam it was a violent entrance so were they on bush to us and we were beaten so people were running you drop your back you actually full get yourself so it's like going to separate ing us from being loving w when we're coming we're singing songs holding hands with this guys are hiding in the bush and they just started whipping us beating and i was really angry that time i said the first person i was shoot when i finished training would be my trainer or look for the people of beating us because you don't understand why they just beating you for no reason so those scaring you

sit down get out you look behind someone to slap your kick you for no reason you can't talk you can do anything he was an exciting to be trained it was terrifying because i'm still really been dyed in the training. did you ever go back to see your trainers after you graduated and never. i can't even remember any of them now but at mile tell me a little bit about the fighting itself were there actual battles or were there are more like raids those are bottles and depend where. how your i want to explain it so there's different grades this being invaded where you are on this when your tekken going to a bottle school but did the other side also use children soldiers yes sometime they do you know they depend of the government was more of them aren't

they hard child soldiers only in the militias no malicious. but in their are sure army and they have that real trained soldiers that fight because they're getting paid. they have a salary. you know i spoke to a british mercenary who also fought in africa when he was younger salman man i don't know if you've heard of them and he told me that he viewed child soldiers just like any other soldiers you know when you were fighting did you feel your enemies or like just normal soldiers so you the same way despite your age well you're just trained to fight if the same enemy that's your enemy in fact child soldiers are the worse they're very sensitive you know they come and the reason why they like using child soldiers is because. they don't have plants they don't have children so they don't know our idea of the future so they can i'm

sure scream and go forward and mostly they're very brave sometime the worst thing you surveyed really get terrified it's hard to convince them to to fight. do you remember the first time you killed someone own say like i actually did one remember me killing somebody myself but i was in an octave situation where we did more justice or the other people just i mean it was your bullet that shot the person. did you think about what was going on at that moment or was just like too much of an adrenaline rush and you had no time to stop and analyze. you get scared before you want to go to toilet several times your throat to dry you know your stomach your body shakes you know so many things happen so many thing goes on

in your head at that moment you go silent you want in the world you know sometimes like your legs can move but after the battle begins you know the rhythm of the gun itself it's it goes with the flow text you over. now to the battlefields are musical you know when there is war it's very musical when i mean no it's not of them. it's like the sounds of the guns it's like they slowed to reason especially if you're very far or you're very sometime your gun even you can't even hear the sound of your gun you know so maybe when it's shocking you know when you're into it so much you know and then the other thing is when what the other experiences when you're not in the battlefield when you're sleeping another people are fighting it's like you don't the bullets to stop because it's like a dark dark dark room that abduct backpack out of

a car bomb so it's it's almost like there's a beat the blue and then you just see a boom the big sound it's like a base so you just warn the explosion to continue in the sounds but is this something that you actually wherein you and that help junior music later on that rhythmic sounds and the feeling of the rhythm that you experienced during the war. you know i should be. i'm doing what i'm doing not because i plundered i think it's something that process and it's accidental it was unplanned. emmanuel we are going to take a short break right now now when we come back we're going to continue to talk to a model of child a hip hop star right now who grew up as a child soldier in sudan and we'll talk more about how he escaped from the war and how he became a pop singer stay with us. technology

innovation. developments around. covered. ingenues but eugenics vulgarized darwin science punishment for an uncommitted crying i was sterilised to learn from innately feebleminded still today of the few i don't know why. but i still don't know why genetic improvement through

forced sterilization the basis for nazi ideology don't stop at just sterilizing and now go to the point of death. for years rarely discussed. till now really rather not talk about that but. they all told me my language or what i will only react to situations i have read the reports to the push of a no i will leave them to the state department to comment on your latter point i'm on to say. mr kerry a car is on the docket no god. no more weasel words. when you vade a direct question be prepared for a change when you throw a punch be ready for a battle freedom of speech and down to freedom to cost.

the world is laughing at america because every single day jamie diamond think that is the american economy shows up in bloody great did you know that and they're saying oh it wasn't me that did this to me was into me the first time i love. these loves me and the rest the world like. oh. i know c.n.n. the m s n b c news have taken some slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's closer to the truth and might think. it's because when full attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on here.

at our team we have a different thread. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not how. you got to the jokes well handled it makes us happy. i marinate join me. in part and. very interview and much much. only on the bus and only.

now we're back with emmanuel jalil a hip hop artist who was a soldier rain his childhood fighting in the sudanese civil war. now i know that young children not even teenagers but really a lot of young like seven or eight like you where are still use us soldiers in africa looking back do you feel like children make good fighters they're sad to be more cool or cruel than the grownups there's nothing more dangerous than a kid with a rifle would you agree with that. do it because they don't thanks to our circle and smaller mean from our bill costs next to them they figured out cause and let's not gum you don't negotiate with a child soldier if they tell you stop you have to stop if you try to talk too much

ensued talk i'm going to shoot you. now i guess when you guys were taken to those camps and you were taken away from your families the only thing that you have is that each other did you make any close friends when you were in a camp or when you were fighting yeah i had a lot of childhood friends. and you know you're told to be brother skip press so your fellow soldier is your brother you know and because you both of you only got each other so in the battlefield happened you could be injured and your fellow soldier can carry you there's no hard feelings you can afford to hate any any of your members when you're in the same place because when the war happen and you know you can be hurt and also if you're going to leave your fellow soldier one day into an issue you're not a good person they can actually shoot you because they don't want to die right themselves or if they're really nice and they like you they can actually give you

a cover for you to skip if they're injured so they have to be nice to each other what would happen to the kids who would refuse to take part in training in fighting they get punished or if you try to skip i'm going say you're from remember us they know where you're from members are and they're going to cause from your home now for you i mean it will be fair to say that you yourself chose to stop what was the turning point when he escaped the soldier's camp how did you manage that well actually i didn't plan an escape it was planned by artists and i just joined them and it was a difficult journey because in the way a lot of people died. maven one of my friend was dying and come you will is i'm started i was tempted to eat my friend actually because my senses change and i was

one of the lowest point and then i arrived in place called wort where i was rescued by british aid worker or smuggle me to kenya well we're going to get in a second but i just really want to know what was that turning point that made you escape made you say to yourself that say i need to go yeah. because i'm glad and so even when i ask one of the guys say to him we've been planning it for a while we can tell you because you have a big mouth and you're going to get us in trouble so it's because i ended up going with them i realize that we're skipping late on because i told is just a normal way of going to one place where we're going to deliver. on the nations our support or check our people injured or just going for part of someone so he didn't know you were going to walk slowly across the whole country. and you said some of

you people who were actually moving with you died how did you manage to survive well this was difficult i actually i probably knew after six hours of exam events when i was able to know we actually escaped in so i survived waiting on snails vultures anything that we could find in the january days we started to eat but we're told the trees the plantation other people got poisoned was a difficult difficult journey also d.-i direction people died of durations so i'll say that i was lucky that i survived but i kept myself positive that tomorrow's going to come where between two to four hundred young people a mix of adults and only sixteen people survived the journey. and now we come to emma mccune a british aid worker who actually saved you how did you come across or and most importantly why did you trust her. well what happened is ended up in

a place called a watch. and she and her friend decided to design me and then promise me to take me to school and i always wanted to go to school but in my ma and as i had a different plan i said i'm going to go to this lady's country and go to school join me become a pilot and steal a plane and come back toward that's what i had in my head but everything changed later so it was all about the bicycle school and an airplane. you know in your train into that as a child so it took a while a long transformation. well unfortunately am i died soon after that in a car crash and you know there was no one else to take care of you what did you do after that i was lucky our family members took it and that's different people can

possibly and life became really difficult so this is where the music came and took an opportunity and this is where i was able to to heal myself because i used to have a lot of nightmares all of them focus on come and get kicked out of school so music became the painkiller nefertiti for me at that time and then i happened to me kenyan woman called mrs moon was actually help me out in my process when i became a musician size for can more focus and doing what i'm doing up to now. he also talk a lot about the feeling of guilt that you experience and other interviewees but looking back do you really have a choice and on the adults that got you involved there are more responsibility well sometime when you see so much problems happening you see have a body suffering. it's hard to actually blam the audience because they're dying you

see everything is happening so and you all know well in it together we're in this boat we're dying all together we mass work together try to get us out of it that's the mind can survive the only time i can really get angry and feel betrayed is actually what is happening in south sudan when the very people who say they are fighting for an independent to swallow the freedom that we we we suffered for. us only if things that make you really feel betrayed because now you had a government that want to stay in power and the testing people who are founding fathers of the organization that wanted to transform the country to be accountable and transparent and the president decided to stick there try to find an opportunity to terminate his political opponent and other countries in civil war you just heard like

a couple days ago where the police and. the prison guards dress in uniform in remove the uniform and entered a u.n. compound to kill women and children will happen to be under the the guiding of the u.n. and now you see like this hatred this bitterness fighting not because of no targeting killing the killing is on ethnic lines. know right never kill one ethnic group the rebels go in and some of them one of control goes into other events so it's terrifying. but emanuel sank slowly right now you are a very successful hip hop artist and your path your rap this political it's all about sending a message out there you sing about peace using people to speak up for their rights najee theel your message is getting across i mean i know that it has lended you in

trouble before now for example last september when you went back to south sudan you were brutally beaten by police. you have the voice is going so the police beat me because they know the strengths of my voice so they're trying to silence me and then later on when they don't like activists they do move their eyes and put them in the box and drop them in the mire and so so they're trying to scare me not to talk but i didn't keep quiet i kept doing my thing because i know why i am in this dispute will voice you know and i'm pushing for justice and equality for freedom for everybody through the music just creating awareness so what i do is mostly for conscious aware. getting people to understand they have the power to actually change things not the government. emanuel thank you so much for this

saying inside into a life child soldier i wish you all the best in getting your voice across the whole world and to everyone and to stop being a child soldier being recruited in the future thanks a lot for this interview we're talking to a man old jar forward child soldier and world famous rapper right now we're talking about the horrors of being a child soldier and how it could be stopped thanks for being with us the same for sophie and co we'll see you next time. oh look you. know we could let the lord know we've got. to. go.

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with young muslims from across the joining the extremists we report on the scale on the threats of the jihadist movement. in the u.k. is furious. hoping to get. international coming to life from us.