but since it's still united states that will to most influence in the alliance isn't it fair washington pays to lion's share of the expansive well you know distro oreo did two percent is an old flame you know and is not stated by lloyd it is a target which shouldn't political has been a science or a few years ago and it is true with most of european partners on it i don't bring up to two percent but let's say there is no magic because. there are also other failings that the european allies do like like participating in nato operations which are not counted in this family stupor slam account you see so as a complicated issue certainly what is true is that is probably the counters will be spending more in the future but how much and in which way is this still to say that nato is now joining the anti isis coalition but what's to point of doing that i

mean most nato countries with serious military capability are already fighting islamic state is the us led coalition really in need of support from i don't know let's say iceland's military for example. well i can tell you you know as you are say rightly over a war most all of the nato allies are participating in the n.t. eyes as a pressure but not the nato isaf so the decision which has been taken a few days ago in brussels is mainly a political decision a symbolic want if you like i mean it does not involve i want to be clear on that it does not involve comical but i actions and the nato flag it is out of question georgia will be a political if you like signal and perhaps some nato assets will be used like to be what's likely to call myself blames you know and perhaps training you know and education on this kind of things but no call button on the ground. so if

nato isn't going to commit specific troops to the anti isis five how will it go about its participation within the coalition all as i say to be fall you know in fact nato has been already linked in practice to do many many things you know d.d. has they can play this he made all the nato headquarters their offices but it does not ever be an official if you like now it is officially they say you have to take it more as a political symbol it's a lie rather than a change of the situation on the ground i figure it will change a little on the ground exactly so secretary stockton burke sad that nato joining the anti isis fights sends a strong political message and message to whom. well it's from political meza is

a strong political message in fact. they say that you know there are many things that need talk and rule which are not called the progressions you know like for yourself folks do not short or like or a connoisseur or like sean or like trading yes or a short in various ways you know yes but the question was. this is a message to whom was deep the nato secretary general mean this sends a strong political and i would say if. it depletes of the message is that if. they draw recognizes a socks the french or terror room. credit i understand also by russia by any way coming from that bottle and longs to be fully visible in the fight against those extremist groups this is the political message what is happening is that

that is certainly mounting frett from extremist groups let's say in the region will be you know precise and nato is trying to raise its visibility against that but of course of the issue is that nato wants to raise its was ability and its support but not to the points or entering into combat progression you see there is some of the line. still present trump was expected to reassure nato allies of his commitment to article five that's a clause that treats an attack on a nato member as an attack on all but he didn't do that in his speech the media is saying that means washington isn't ready to defend its allies what do you think the strums behavior indicate just that. i don't know i don't know i kind of raid into the mind of the president of united states what i can tell you is that you know i

prefer to look to look at what he das rather than want to say is you know so i don't know why he didn't mention that i'm annoyed we'll see in the future exactly you know we are still in the first few of alms of his presidency so i imagine he's also on the eleventh is probably you know trying to figure out a lot so his policy should be for the rest of his family i suppose so i would not really gave too much attention to a sentence or another send those there's talk now in the year of a common european army where does that leave nato will it become redundant. my you know all of this is that you us we you know difficult questions that kind of be . in further cycles european army is you know i think is a wrong way of. speaking about european defense policy because it is no european army and i don't think that it would be any

utopian army unless europe is united politically which i don't see it's really happening in the next few reus atlas to say things diplomatically so in fact what is happening on the european side is to try to. let's say better utilize exist of the sources to optimize friends and to reduce the how can i say the duplications that exist among european armies because if you take it up here in union you see twenty eight or twenty seven european armies and they duplicate in many things so this is an airfield which is going to take place bought and here i have a clear ideas about it this is not going to be an european army in any way. and german chancellor angela merkel is saying that here of can no longer rely on others and that that's a quote europeans have to take their fate into their own hands do you agree or do

you think the e.u. has been too dependent on the united states for example well i don't know you know because it is very difficult how can i say to say to judge a policy of a big country only on to the club rational may do it in a letter of complaint so i don't have an idea what mrs macken has in mind. to buy mine for for by experience i thing the nato will stay on because you know nato is useful as a practical tool and that is no reason to my mind. soul you know it is not in going to the actual mood of fact that you can stand for european union or you know there are ways you know like three like environment like instructor or find some micro biome of policy you know all those things that are made of things existing beyond the fast so we have not to frame immediately when for

a lack of say the saying let's just begin about it will be obvious i don't think so donald trump also advised nato to maybe focus on terrorism and immigration do you think the lions should be doing the job of the european border guard. frankly speaking of disobedience you don't do is a sop a through line you know there is a softer line between you know a military trial and a rescue operation i don't think that nato really as much of their role can be going to have some role monsanto not a major role. nato played a big part in khadafi its overthrow in libya and you're saying its aftermath has spread instability and jihad isn't in africa does nasal have a responsibility to do something about that seeing how its actions cost a callus in the first place i was thinking then it's off to come pay should have

been involved in institution building and in trying to ring false. security apart. by helps even the army is a good science i mean not against anybody but just to help to create a stable state and i think it was a mistake on the side though they don't want to do that from the beginning you know this i think that we have to admit in my view a day it's off to go but a should have continued in creating institutional see libya especially of security decided. all right we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking with any sound all the meaning so former deputy secretary general of nato talking about the alliances standoff with russia and the future of its policy in the eastern hero states with us.

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as you. and we're back with alice sound of mean the authority itself former deputy secretary general of nato talking about nato expansion into europe band they resulted in tension with moscow welcome back to the show certain natures decisions are made by concessive order it is easy to reach

a consensus when the interests of. slovenia and canada are so different. well of course the question is a good question certainly we've got a lot of it told nato it is being more difficult to reach consensus was that before the fall during the cold war it was ready clear on oahu over one side was on your shoulder it was kind of the shooter had to be taken in this case is not so easy as it was before so your right is your making is is complicated still it looks you know now turkey on the ground i mean to some extent that list well nowadays turkey occupies a key spot in nato it has to alliances second largest conventional army but should nato be concerned with the latest developments in turkey for instance a present they're gone given can't sell sweeping new powers purging the military except or up or is turkish strategic importance too high in nato will close its

eyes only accusations so transgressions of democracy. where you know this is very difficult is a question nato. as the turkey is a member this is a long time and did a leisure ship as well it's always been easy because turkey you know for that you also have a geographical part of the war you view is not really all the same aside the let's say all the older nato countries as always bay have different interests nevertheless i would say so far in the history on nato compromises has always been reached so india and i cannot say to speak about the future and see to as short of settling the bill is very confused but you know i would not the the cried the let's say the death of. these of a nato all the other way around yes some argue turkey's unpredictable behavior its

military action in iraq and syria that with russia blocking the vosges cooperation with nato turns it into more of a lab elite say than a benefit to the alliance what do you think well you know what i think frankly speaking is that the situation in the middle east is extremely confused radical infused i don't see clear at a cat's threat that is any way i only see tactical things you know things good for today or tomorrow. you have teams of conses for with a brief period of time and then you know it all say diddly i think that's. bad historical moment in the middle east and it is very difficult to predict how things will become of cos we read every day in the newspaper and that all the vinyl is giving judgement on this and that but if you look at the end of the story i see that the middle east of today is very different from the middle east all twelve

eleven of the so-called a lot of the spring and is very difficult to put a big thing with every which direction it will go so this is really my answer to that so what do you think when will nato us enlargements dr finally slow down i mean seeing how many vigorous objections russia made to it is nato moving eastwards just to spite moscow. you're speaking about a lot of us or nato yes. well you know it's a lot of the day it's always something to be discussed i think practical that nato has more or less is maximum it stands i think i don't know all u.s. which is of course possible but for the time being i don't see you accession of tornado front to speaking because as you know for a country to be called bottle gun is ashura you need first of all in a quest by the country and i don't see anybody for

a moment asking to join nato and all due to her and i think that also nato perhaps as don't be up or tied. to extend beyond the pull of the borders well actually the latest addition to nato is montenegro it happened recently and that's a small nation in the balkans was last than two thousand military personnel what's the point in welcoming a state with no military strength into a military alliance what wol is it going to play in your opinion. well i tell you this is a good point if you like because it is a question that you have been asked in the past i remember that when. i mean of things have changed in europe because of the dissolution of the it was latvia you remember all those was the question about the future when a the was asked and the question that you're asking me was asked in the sense that should we also have a decide they're going to count is with little military capacity and then they

do this kushal went on for years that in the end the decision which has been taken is that if there are these the political will of any specific independent garment dorrit you're going to show. it will be anywhere useful for the country and for the alliance also for the country because that would imply for the country in question perhaps you are have you have wanted a reminder maybe it would be good to have some reforms because a lot of facts don't belong into a large international got is there. i don't think this is going to change nature of late on in. you know nato to get out today though is a county ok but here's another example nato promised governments in ukraine and other acts soviet countries eventually membership. but when a confrontation with russia came nato did nothing to help why stare up false hope saying give up promises of defense that you can't keep. well is not such

a simple story in fact and as far as i know there had been no request from grain to join nato show this question is not on the table in nato as far as i know is not on the table it to my mind they did i express it a personal opinion is not to be on the table for the next two years i think that. this is to ash and over nato as it is to me rational i don't see who crave because me a member certainly not in the next year yes perhaps in the middle to my why not i mean but not now so i don't feel that it should be a concern about this is my my personal opinion i feel that is a lot of confusion about that and of calls that have different opinions about that by in my mind is. this is the this is this is the where there is cooperation between nato and crane why don't. bothers you for peace supported training but this

is not nato membership this is something else so i think you should not be freaking about it here nato is deploying troops to poland and the baltic states in the biggest built up of forces in eastern europe since the cold war the move was are actually leading to retaliation from russia you know deploying whistles and cutting grat while they do insist it doesn't want an arms race it is actually provoking just that wouldn't you agree. well i don't know again you know there are a lot of emotional scene that bottle the world. we are talking about and soul again is very difficult to make a not so difficult to make a difference between because rational political the player that he and the reality if you're talking about military presence of nato countries in. poland above the continent in fact that was decided it was decided last year in warsaw using remember and the reason is very simple. some governments of the

elias say that they wanted to have some military presence because there's no nato because the older why there would be assault over got to go to be the member states that will do is a which was a ball of the old us and i know that at these i figure on their way sounds bold deployments in that bottle we were all but i think again this is rather symbolic and it is more it does more the political meaning that a military one and anyway don't forget this is a rotation so as a sort of other i say the most pressure all sorted out at the but i wouldn't go beyond that. nato calls its approach to russia a combination of defense and dialogue however why she doesn't see nato as deployments on its borders as the two fans does that mean there is not going to be any men in full dialogue either. oh you know i think to be better because this is

an important point this question that you ask is a very important one what i think is that there would be it is no cold war animal the cold war there was a bit only one it is finished so i don't figure that out in a situation of a cold war may the way facts are no i think this is all or what is the difference between they feel confident russia is oldest some specific points one is the next session although. the older one is a subpoena to them and dumbass they are specific points all the unilateral change aboard those on the other hand there is a local call but i actually know that as you know in afghanistan forty is something sayas of us in many older areas which is not to me a dumbass so again i mean you know i would not the mix i would fit together. poland's foreign minister has urged nato to continue talks with russia to ensure

that the alliances military activities in the country aren't considered a provocation in moscow and he's got a point with so much military amassed at the borders on both sides what happens if there was an accidental encounter. you know you are told here about will suffer this from time to time i read in the newspaper but really you know what to think of that war today you wrote is absurd is incredible is. ok as an imagination i feel a little bit and i am not and no i'm not talking about war all i'm saying is that accidents happen they happen all the time and that can provoke a full fledged war. what about you know you for accident happen. i mean does it have been a controlled accident you know the feelings become dangerous when you have an accident and if this keeps. pressure to be all the dominator v.x.

so that it does not happen so far they feel they are already careful to look at that and to be sure other doesn't happen why should the accident ledger or. size happen all of a side the let's hope not if you like their walls of the accident though the play bit which was. let's say killed for us to go or gone bust that was a major accident but after that i haven't seen things of that kind happening anymore luckily. well what can i say mr minute to read so i really enjoyed talking to you and it's such a pity that you are not the current secretary general of nato things would have been much better off of that was the case thanks a lot for this interview or talking to allison gilman is our rate so a former deputy secretary general of nato discussing the alliance's latest pledge to fight terrorism and how the nato russia relationship is likely to shape up in

the future that's it for this edition of sophia and call see you next. minute. going to be willing to risk a dream. it turns you know. the mind. it. is getting to the security system and the trouble. to replace it. is. to get. stuck with a suitcase it's

a few seconds the crowd is spread out so. this. like. the saudi qatar spot continues with no end in sight and new sanctions on russia dividing nato allies also is the truth about ukraine finally coming to light lastly the west and civil society. let's talk about blackness in the bills of being black. and always well in a big house down at least that's what i've been told but it was simply did we in remains as such because we simply forgot i don't believe. being seen we've allowed them to rearrange their plane it you've told us the sickness of trust in our enemy we became defacements. in that's what i call a lack of blackness or understand in the blues of being black. sheep the blues of

being black should mandate that we attack knowing how when and what to do to come this simple in his national has been begged is simply to the feeling blue is black and blue. in case you're new to the game this is how it works now the economy is built around corporations corporations run washington washington controls the media the media and the voters elected a businessman to run this country business equals power boom bust it's not business as usual it's business like it's never been done before. social environment. with. chemical discoveries over the last century made every day

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the headlines in r.t. an armed man deliberately rammed his car into a police van on the shans elisei in paris. in london ten people are hurt two seriously after a van there is driven into a crowd of worshippers outside a mosque suspected attacker has been charged with terrorist acts this was an attack on muslims place of worship. and russia suspends cooperation with the u.s. in syria and warns that american backed aircraft will now be tracked as targets after a syrian fighter jet was downed by an american war.