the supreme court sided with top u.s. officials over post september eleventh detentions on this edition. of politicking ivy holmes in for larry king this week the supreme court ruled that muslim men detained after the september eleventh attacks cannot sue u.s. law enforcement officials in the george w. bush administration it was afforded to a decision that has many wondering if we have the right balance between security and civil rights let's talk about this and much more with longtime washington d.c. and republican party insider former congressman chris shays of connecticut he served as ranking member of the national security and foreign affairs committees

and on the house homeland security committee he joins me from our nation's capitol welcome senator congressman thanks for joining us i appreciate it nice to be with you so let me pose that question to you as a former congress person sitting on those committees do you believe that we are striking the right balance between security and civil rights well i think we have to be conscious of the balance but let's just remember we had three airplanes that had passenger in it and it used as missiles to to attack the united states brought down six buildings in new york city it was a crime that was committed that we could have it was a terrorist act that was committed that we could have prevented had we done a better job in and keeping track of potential terrorists and what the patriot act does and what other acts do is to try to bring a balance. let's remember these individuals by their were not american citizens and i believe most if not all were here illegally. yes they were they were actually

eventually deported on immigration violations you bring up the patriot act of course there's a lot of debate about it particular when it comes to an essay surveillance do you think that the n.s.a. surveillance is appropriate or too pervasive well n.s.a. surveillance is a little different than patriot act and its n.s.a. surveillance is trying to take public information collected in a way and combine it to see if there's threads that would have us you know look at certain people and then if we think that they are suspicious. use the patriot act in that case go to a file as a court. of presenting information of why you need to have surveillance on these individuals had we done that before we the nine eleven never should have happened it never should have been. shifting gears just a little bit with you congressman let's talk about what's going on in washington

d.c. where you are and we know that you voted for hillary clinton you were not a supporter of pressure from since he's become president of course is presidency has been engulfed in controversy it seems every single day something new comes out is there anything about president trump that has surprised you positively well first of all he's clueless about how government works and yet he boasted that he would be able to get a good handle on it he's clueless about his responsibilities and the responsibilities of congress and he continually says things that are in the truthful that can be documented by just showing what he just said the day before going back to the transcript or the media so are the things that i like about him i want to deal with regulations and i think he has to we have inane regulations that we need to have less regulations and we need them to be more purposeful so that's one area. well he did he did issue an executive order requiring that

two regulations be wiped off the books for every one that's proposed you think that was a good move on his part i do think it was a good move knowledge of see what are the ones that are waved off are the ones that are left standing i mean we have regulations governing ethics i don't want to see those go away like him to be an ethical president and understand why you need ethics in government. so you know his ethics of course have been under attack and particularly from democrats on capitol hill and a number of them are looking to try to introduce you know a bill of impeachment and piece of an indictment what do you think about that effort i mean word less than six months into this president i think that's misguided impeachment means that you have reason to believe that you need to take a duly elected president and hold a hearing in. then remove him from office i think what makes sense is to have the

investigation that's going on by mueller right now that makes sense but then to leave the president trump obstructed justice when he told the former f.b.i. director james comey that i hope that you can let this thing with michael thing go no i don't i don't think that would be a reason why he would be impeached if he's impeached it will be that there will be some connection with donald trump and his campaign working with the russians to overturn or excuse me to have you seen any evidence of that and have influence oh i mean i have you seen evidence of any collusion between the russian government or agents of the russian government and the top campaign but well first off we know they interfered with our elections so that's a given now i'm not losing sleep that they interfered with our election because we interfere with their election we interfere with other elections so i don't want to be hypocritical about it but the question is why were there secret meetings with with the russians before and after the election why is donald trump so oblivious to

the fact that they were influencing our election and seems not concerned about those you know when when you open a closet door and money falls over you and you say no just nothing here but money. don't you don't say well you should look at it we should look at it and then we should determine if it's accurate about sure but what about president trance contention that the f.b.i. director told him three times that he personally was not under investigation and you know even dianne feinstein has said the senator from california has said that she's seen no evidence of collusion with the campaign they've seen and so the question is alternately will there be evidence that proves it and if not they'll do it but they have to let them do their investigation that's what they should do. so congressman you said that you believe that trump president trump is clueless clueless about government how the legislative process. so what advice would you

give him to try to turn this presidency around you know i don't that's a great question i want to be honest i want to be straightforward i won him to allow the investigation to go forward without him being preoccupied with that i want him to do his job i want him not to tell him to get off twitter absolutely was give me no i don't want to say that i think he has a right to use twitter to get his message out without having to just go all the time through the pros so i just like him to be thoughtful about what he says that would that would be my record and well the former the former f.b.i. director he testified to congress that it was because of donald trump's tweet that he went and released this memo through a friend of the new york times which the former f.b.i. director said he hoped would trigger a special counsel which it did so the question to you is the question many people

have is do you think that a lot of the buzz saw that president trump is running into is his own making oh absolutely it's his own making and it's very sad you know i think it's let me let me just make this point when you're on an airplane you pray for the pilot i don't want him to fail i won our government to do well i would like him to succeed doing constructive things but you know when he flies a plane to the right and to the left and up and straight down you get a little nervous and i'm nervous yet so in order for him to do the right things as you're saying he also needs a cooperative congress and so far we've seen the democratic party being very obstructionist when it comes to trying to work with republicans on obamacare for good assholes trying to reform that so you know what needs to happen there are you surprised when he goes to a convention and he encourages people to you. walk or up block or up i mean people are going to start to say about half have to put on their big boy pants too and get to the limit although you make me make my point my point is he can't complain about

this when he was so active in doing the very things that democrats were doing so he's he's a misguided voice when he complains about it because he set the tone donald trump is everything my parents taught me to be and everything we taught our daughter not to be that's the real me so now having said that would it be nice if democrats and republicans work together one of the challenges is since twenty ten seventy percent of the members of congress have never been elected since two thousand and ten and they've never seen cooperation among the parties and even the staff stone cooperate so yes that i think both sides need to grow up and work with each other absolutely . absolutely congress and we really appreciate you joining us thank you so much you're welcome turning now to the latest in syria i'm joined by courtney keeley she's the u.s.

foreign affairs national security expert and former senior reporter for al-jazeera america courtney thank you for joining us you say that so sunday our military shot down a syrian plane and russia has now announced as a consequence they're going to treat u.s. planes as targets so my question to you is are we about to get into a military confrontation with russia well it is very very complicated and this news is quite dramatic so let me tell you exactly what happened u.s. fighter jet came flying off an aircraft carrier in the mediterranean over syria and and shot out of the sky as syrian regime forces plane that had dropped bombs on coalition forces u.s. coalition forces that are being assisted by u.s. special forces would you say we were within our. right to shoot that plane down i wouldn't i wouldn't categorize and i think i'll just i can tell you what happened and what you know six years into a civil war where u.s.

hasn't really reacted a lot in with the term administration in the last month we've seen four times the trumpet mr sharon has made it very clear that there were the top administration bomb syria they well they bomb syria after those chemical attacks there have been three attacks within the area that they're fighting against the syrian regime because let's start let's start a little bit backwards right it's such an alley and it was over at all related to. this headline first air to air combat for the u.s. military in this region in years they did shoot off shoot out of the sky syrian regime forces airplane and there was a parachute evacuation seen reported they did call russia on the hotline before they before they did this which russian now says that they're going to break out of it and they're not going to talk to the two united states to avoid mid-air collisions and we haue dangerous can this get into court it's been dangerous for

a long time this is happened for several years now with with russian fighters and the air russian planes in the air you've got u.s. coalition forces that have been flying over syria launching bombs on to isis was what you have to back up a little bit you've got it a civil war that's been going on for six years that's cause much longer than anyone predicted at the time or act has caused the largest refugee crisis since world war two it's impossible to dislodge assad but since the civil war has been going on he has been aided by iranian revolutionary guards and shia militias on the ground including hezbollah from neighboring lebanon as well as russia and russia and when russia came in and basically saved aside from terry aid with a naval base which is the only naval base outside of post soviet territory which is in northern syria all right let me stop you. but it is fascinating i love it we're going to talk more about it right after the break stay right there more politicking coming up. a bachelor sudden passing i've only just learned you worry

yourself and taken your last wrong turn. to caught up to you as we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry finally i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each breath. but then my feelings started to change you talked about war like it was again still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question our arc and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral in the same as one enters the mind it's consumed with death this one quite different i speak to you now because there were no other takers. to the claim that mainstream media has met its maker.

and. i'm john marvin and i'll give you what the mainstream media can't go big picture we'll go deeper investigate and debate all so you can get the big picture. the local blogs sell you on the idea that dropping bombs brings printers to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battles that still. produce talk for the tell you that what we gossip the public but i felt a little more news today. while the authors of advertising tell me you are not full enough and less to buy their products. to all the hawks that we along the border will watch. welcome back to politicking courtney keeley joins me in studio and we're discussing syria and how dangerous this might get for the united states a for

a lot of our viewers they asked the question what is our interest in syria whenever we it seems they have wandered or waded into the middle east it doesn't work out well what are we doing there while you have the history of the u.s. middle u.s. in the middle east is not no one it's not filled with glory then nothing whatsoever . so i do obama and he was clearly has it in playing out the clock of his ministry no one really engaging except going after isis in the power vacuum of the civil war with bashar al assad going after his own people that were fighting to depose him and his own regime forces fighting those people right iran and russia stepped in but as well as and i understand that isis i mean they were better fighters more organized than they used to rebel and they stepped into a power vacuum in a different area of syria has a huge desert that borders iraq mosul and iraq are kind of like two twin cities if you if you let go of the boundaries you just look at these two places where the

u.s. is engaged taking out what is they're doing there what is getting away what i was just taking isis out of mosul iraq do you think we can do that and khalaf well today we can succeed in takes a very very long time clearly nobody wants to see a prolonged military engagement because we still have the quagmire of afghanistan we have the issue of invading iraq u.s. forces are on the ground in iraq and outside of raka in serious syria you've got special forces and advisors on the ground in iraq in syria fighting against isis aided by coalition forces in iraq there's iraqi coalition forces that some are shia some looking towards iran but we're using those as allies that's in our interest so courtney let me ask you this how does this and syria has been engaged in this civil war civil conflict since twenty eleven far longer. anyone predicted is there a diplomatic solution or is this just going to be a fight to the death well it is a fight to the death and has been a fight it's not going to end with any bad news it's they're still going on but if

you've ever been endure an airstrike which i hope you haven't been the sonic booms are enough to terrorize the population major jets u.s. fighter jets screaming over syria is not what anybody wants but they also want to see u.s. special forces how does it how does it add it and eventually first with isis that's the u.s. is goal to get rid of isis but then they have to figure out some to pull out a magic solution and it has to and you have to get into the table with the iranians you have to come to the table to the russians on the carries an easier way to use our secretary of state he tried that he had these summits you know it seems continually and they never we don't have a president that's speaking on message with the secretary of state breaking news we don't have a president that's supporting caught our where we're has a house and a huge u.s. military base that is used to i think that trying this is complicating matters or and it's not doesn't think i can just report that basically matters are very complicated because as you know once you wait wait into this it's there is no

muslim world the arab unified world of one idea it's like trying to say all americans think the same it's a crazy patchwork of all different types of people that form a country so is the arab world so is the muslim so do you think that we can succeed in our goal demolishing isis it's going to be a long battle musil still ongoing it's horrific battle it's their human rights abuses on all sides you saw even the iraqi forces going into mosul that were backed by the u.s. . tortured came out video of some people that have been following them around there's nothing good that's going to come out of iraq and right now you still have civilians that are still taking the toll you have families that have been torn apart you have syrians that can't live in peace in the country they can't work and it's one of the most harrowing situations i've covered and i have covered harrowing courtney in the snow those are some harrowing words thank you so much for joining us and helping explain this very complicated situation appreciate that. joining me

now in studio is gordon chang an expert on asia columnist for the daily beast and forbes dot com and author of nuclear showdown north korea takes on the world gordon thanks much for joining us appreciate it thank you so much i mean so we saw that warm air the young american man who was arrested in prison in north korea has just been returned home to the united states after seventeen months of imprisonment and it appears severely brain damaged and in a coma i mean i can't imagine the pain as parents are going through with all of this but my question to you is what was the point why did north korea arrest him and then subsequently it appears tortured him well touching a propaganda banner which is what he did he tried to take it down is a serious offense and it would be serious not just of a foreigner doing it but especially of a north korean you know we live in a democracy free and could have been arrested should tell the very same thing yeah i would have gotten probably more than fifty years you know we look at the fifteen

years hard labor as an excessive sentence where the north koreans would would not have you know because we live in a democracy our government is inherently german and we are not as concerned about symbolism but in our own state like north korea where the government isn't legitimate you know propaganda boasts posters symbolism so it is of course it was this for domestic consumption for north koreans for the government to project this propaganda where they say something the united states as well well i think was really for internal stability because if somebody could for instance mockumentary one or tear down a poster or criticize the kim family that could lead to a chain of events where people then decide to go into the streets and that's why the movie the interview in two thousand and fourteen the one that talked about the assassination of a north korean leader that i loved that movie and i actually did it in solidarity with the movie makers for you know first amendment purposes but let me ask you this and you know this sort of the raging question is kim jong un the leader of north

korea. is he crazy or is he doing things that actually make sense given his government and his position you know i think that makes sense in the context of the north korean political system that regime is very difficult to survive in and so therefore there have been you know hundred fifty five executions lately of seizing his arms uncle his own uncle john's also is elder have brother with the v.x. attack in the malaysian airport in february. is making i think rational decisions but like the world's worst regime so you could take the pope or whatever and put him in the same position as kim jong un and you get behave i don't know his mother and sister go a lot of that but how secure is his position i mean is he doing these things because he's being controlled by generals and you know north korean coming in sports is around him that's a great debate among korea watchers most people think that he actually consolidated

control quickly after he took over from the death of his father in december two thousand and eleven was he learning at his father's knee how to do that yes he was . also in the regime founder took more than two decades to teach kim jong il his son how to rule the regime because a very difficult thing to do now kim jong il to just about play here because the regime you know is not a monolith it's a composite of various elements like the security services korean people's army. and the guard even more complicated and then you have kim family members who are also part of the regime it's a balancing effort on the part of a north korean leader kim jong un has not only tried to consolidate his own position by putting his own people in place he's also change the composition of the regime moving it away from the military first policy of his father towards one where the korean workers party is dominant and so that's why there's been so many deaths and that's why i think the regime his own state. out forces that might be

opposing his changes and he's killing anybody who might actually be a threat to him and so in the middle of january this year be demoted and detained as minister of state security general can warhol a very important figure then there was the execution of five of general kim sr associates then there was the execution or the assassination of kim jong il couple weeks after that there are all sorts of things that are occurring the regime that we don't see but they don't add up to stability and that's important for us because this guy's soon going to have a long range missile he's going to be able to put a nuke on it and reach the lower forty eight states this is going to turn to how much of a threat is is this to the united states and north korea actually firing off a missile across the pacific ocean landing in california i don't think that they would actually try and do that because we would retaliate but he could use his nukes to try to intimidate us to obtain concessions to work to intimidate us if we

don't think he's actually getting to use it i mean a threat has to come you know backed with you know severe action we may think that he may not use it but we may not be willing to take that chance and so i think one of the reasons why they want nuclear weapons and long range ballistic missiles is to extract concessions you know this is going to be new because they had unsuccessfully in the past yes let me ask about this president trump you know he has you know boasted that he now has a very warm working relationship with the president of china when he went you know the president went to our law go to hang out with donald trump how much do you think the present time will be more successful than previous administrations and getting china leveraging china to pressure north korea. i think the president trample only be successful if he imposes costs on the chinese what he's trying to be doing that now because everyone thinks we need china's cooperation and so the general thought in this administration and in prior ones has been let's try and be cooperative with the chinese because then they'll be cooperative with us that

approach hasn't worked in the. yeah so i don't think it's going to work and this one president has said you know what if the chinese are going to help we're going to do this alone so what can we do to pressure china well for instance we could just do nothing morse than just and force our own laws chinese banks have been engaged in money laundering for the north koreans and involved into their illicit converse commerce we have followed european banks hundreds of millions of dollars for a lesser offenses we don't touch chinese banks at all but what about what about the threat of retaliation people say that if you you know get engaged in this adversarial relationship with china that they could really hurt our trade relationship well you could certainly hurt us but we're past the point of we're going to be any costless solutions so we've got much more leverage over the chinese so for instance all these chinese banks have been involved in north korean activities violation of u.s. law well we could divide them access to their dollar business in new york which means they would be not transacting dollars anywhere in the world that means there

be no chinese financial system which means a b. no chinese economy which means there be no chinese political system we have not been willing to use the elements of our national power because we've been so afraid of the chinese once we do things that's going to change that with the temple ministration i think that could very well change and there's reporting in japanese newspapers that trump gave presidency to him being in the mara lago meeting you talking about one hundred days to solve this that means on july sixteenth or at least july seventeenth we're going to find out if the trump administration has the political will to impose those costs on china and that hundred days is just a rumor but it also coincides with commerce secretary wilbur ross his hundred day plan to reduce the deficit with china so i think that there probably is something to it and we're going to find out in july so many links quickly before we go last question our secretary of state rex tillerson has said that he may ban americans from traveling to north korea that we don't want another author warm beer or lisa

ling's sister laura being to. to them that's a good idea i think it's a good idea because we don't want to give the north koreans any more bargaining chips but also the use all the money is for me tourism for their ballistic missile and nuclear weapons program because money is fungible so every time you see a north korean missile towards a cigar that is tourist dollars at work and i'll be calling you on july seventeenth about what we did with that dead let me appreciate it thank you so much for joining us thank you very thank you for joining me on this edition of politicking and think you are to larry king for letting me sit in this chair it's an honor remember we love hearing from you join the conversation on larry's facebook page and as always you can share your thoughts on twitter by tweeting at kings things and using the politicking hash tag i also got you to join me on twitter at real amy holmes that's all for this edition of politicking. about your sudden passing i've only just learned you worry yourself and taken your

last wrong turn. you're out caught up to us we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each breath. but then my feeling started to change you talked about war like it was again still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question our ark and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral in the same as one enters in mind it's consumed with death this one quite different i speak to you now because there are no other takers. to claim that mainstream media has met its maker.

it's called the food we don't need to go to. everyone in the world should experience flu and you'll get it oddly or will. go according to just. get up to a bad world cup i am sure there are. strict. all the world's a stage and all the news companies merely players but what kind of parties are n.t. america play marty america of much more artsy america offers more. in many ways a news landscape just.