hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered peter lewis well he's the u.k. in crisis after a series of deadly terrorist attacks one hung parliament and the horrific human tragedy of the greenfeld towers as well as the burning issue a break that many are asking if the ruling elites are out of touch. crosstalk in the u.k. i'm joined by my guest steve keen in london he is a professor of economics at kingston university london as well as the economic advisor to asymmetric return capital also in london we have marcus papadopoulos he's the editor of politics first magazine and in salford we cross to you stephen fielding he is a professor of political history at the university of nottingham or a gentleman cross-like rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate steve let me go to you first in london i suppose a very simple question at the top of this program is the u.k.

in crisis and maybe explain why go ahead i think it isn't process because what's really we're at a turning point where the u.k. was when neoliberalism was born maggie thatcher and her little handbag carrying around a copy of. freedom freedom book really set the china that was advertising this is going to be a tough new world where tough love is going to be the rule and the perspective i think was always that it's a bit like cost roll used to be regarded it types bad but it's good for you when you grow up you'll appreciate it well that had thirty years of this now it tasted bad its effect has been bad you can no longer say this is will what will happen to me apply analysing what has happened to apply neha liberalism and that hasn't been successful the u.k. has gone backwards in international comparisons reduced its manufacturing sector and now the public has really said they've had enough and i got in the opposite direction because they followed been presented with somebody who's willing to offer that opposite direction and that is. and then i recalled an ok well we'll get back

to it we'll get back to him marcus same question here but maybe if i can add to it here there seems to be a crisis of leadership here we we we have the parliamentary election outcome but we still have the same leadership in there doesn't seem to be any interest spec sheet of why the tories performed underperformed the way they did kind of reminds me of the democrats in america go ahead marcus. well first of all britain is being plagued by numerous crises cerise in my while she's an incredibly hard working person she's an incredibly shy person she's incredibly she's incredibly uncomfortable we've ordinary people and that is simply not good enough if she wants to be prime minister and the there were numerous it was played in britain politically economically and in terms of security we have a conservative party which has been running the country since two thousand and ten

and puts its interests before the country hence why the conservatives help with the referendum hence why they called the step general election and hence why they are trying to form an agreement with that the day you pay northern ireland which could jeopardize the peace process there and then we have the terrible situation of how there are seven million british people living in poverty four million of which are children we have over one million paper in britain dependent on food banks and then we have the severe challenge to british national security from within which stems partly from there being a very serious problem within the muslim community in the u.k. but the problem in the muslim you can problem in the muslim community in the u.k. is few words by u.k. foreign policy fuelled by how britain has a very close relationship with saudi arabia which is. the latent exports of

extremism sort of world and terrorism what isn't and also because of how the british government is keep supporting the numerous islamist one happiest terrorist groups in syria and let's not forget pates or the recent terrorist attacks in britain westminster manchester london bridge power market the root of that was it was one hop ism and what does how does the british government respond they simply keep allow in saudi arabia to establish what the mosques in britain and to establish what the schools which are promoting hatreds and promoting deaf to anyone that does not follow islam that is an intolerable situation i agree with you stephen let me go to you because you would think about when it comes to security that the current prime minister she was the former home secretary she should know this the situation better than anyone else in the country and i have to say at least an outsider looking in she looks helpless and hapless go ahead steve. well as

as has already been said. he's proven to be an appalling political leader during the election campaign she was claiming right at the start she was strong and stable and she called on the british electorate to vote for her on that basis to take britain through the negotiations and of course it all fell apart largely due to her own incompetent handling of her manifesto which worried a lot of people about the dementia tax and actually reinforced many concerns people had about austerity during that campaign there were of course some terrorist incidents to it she did not really respond in a particularly comforting leadership kind of a way people want to be reassured. but the problem with the problem with terror if that's one of the elements of this british crisis and i must admit i do dispute is a general description of what's going on the terror incident occurred since

westminster bridge up to the present day in fact there are two different elements there's the kind of lone wolf the person who is clearly somewhat disturbed with a van and i'm not quite sure what the security services can do about individual searches are but also there are the the other the other two incidents in manchester in england and the did clearly seem to be part of a network unfortunately however much the security services attempt to counteract some of those plots like they are a site in britain has been through this before like the r i said in the seventy's and eighty's they only need to succeed once and the security services have to succeed all the time and of unfortunately they did not succeed on these two occasions ok but steve if they go ahead jump on one of the one of the big one of the big falling points in the campaign was when my secretary for the last five years she oversaw the austerity driven program which actually cut back the number

of community. radically i think about twenty thousand less police than they were five years ago and one of them there is a famous video where the winner of the community collation of the year award in two thousand and righted my for the damage of taking away the community policing saying we can no longer if we can no longer be preemptive we can no longer find out i was lucky to do something like this there will be a terrorist attack and of course they were she was being shown on t.v. during the campaign saying your skin mongering what marcus you know did it what do you need the national security state for i'm sorry that is not good enough go ahead marcus. look pay to the problems we've theresa may did not became when she became prime minister the evidence of inadequacies as a politician and as a later were very very evident when she was home secretary i can tell you now as a member of the parliamentary press gallery the only time i saw her leave the home office building which for

a few was outside of brits in these the equivalent of the interior ministry was when she would come to the commons the house of commons to speak from the dispatch box she would rarely rarely leave the home office podium because she is incredibly shy and she doesn't not like meeting people and what does this demonstrate will it demonstrate she's totally unsuitable to become prime minister put it also demonstrates something else which i've been saying for some years now the callup in british politics oh yeah it's very very low and when the caliper is low that opens the doors to people who are awake and who are not to quit i'm going to say the same thoughtful response and if i was a conservative party supporter member i would not want johnson as my later but the question for the tories is this who else is there to succeed surveys and i get stephen let's not go but you want to jump into me after that go ahead go ahead go ahead stephen. yeah it's a it's a it's one of the one of the old kind of sayings you know people who are living

through politics at any particular moment always be mown the pulling leadership that they lived through and look back to the golden age and i'm afraid the golden age really didn't exist some of britain's they deserve been appalling in the past as well it's pretty poor now but i think it's interesting we haven't really talked about it because when you talk about a crisis a crisis is a moment of decision it's kind of from from madison it's where it's a moment in which the patient. rather gets better and britain has been living through a kind of crisis ever since the british people forty eight fifty two decided to leave the e.u. and this this week recent times britain's started the negotiations and we don't know how those are going to end and so we've got to feel kind of political states at the moment this is a this is a kind of a political crisis but also into looks economic concerns because we don't know what the economic consequences of breaks it will be on the real political element of the crisis is that trey's and i wanted to get a majority and she found herself with

a minority but that goes through both the two main parties the conservatives are divided over what they should do about it and the labor party is divided about what it should do about it so it's not so much about the individuals concerned there's a structural problem with political leadership at the moment in regard to the most important the most important subject that britain is confronted in many many generations that's a really good point is even if i could go to go to you in london again but the interesting bit this if given this important a moment here do is the current prime minister competent to to deal with what the british electorate wanted a hard break or is it going to be just as wishy washy stuff from both parties go ahead steve. absolutely not i mean is that what you need and this has been shown by yanis varoufakis experience with being in the. in that same negotiating for greece against the european union they play hardball the financial ministers of the in the

european union wanted to make an example of grace and that's exactly what they did they behaved very coordinated why they intimidated and bullied all the way through and it showed you need somebody who's got the capacity to sign no now tourism i is called the capacity to decide whatever the public relations person says at the time which of course failed abjectly during the campaign jeremy coleman has a reputation of crossing the floor and voting against his own party i think on six hundred to coalitions roughly when he was in palm and and you know somebody like that waiting in his capable to solve some of the no i'm not going to agree to that until we work out during all these negotiations in parallel we're not going to do it so you know i think this is a country where jans the only person is not the leadership capacity is john i have to go to i have to go to a hard break and after that hard break we'll continue our discussion on what's happening in the u.k. stay with part.

about your sudden passing i phone lee just learnt you worry yourself in taking your last bang turn. to you as we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry. so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each. but then my feeling starting to change you talked about war and i can't miss a game still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question are are. they secretly promised to never be like it's one does not leave a funeral in the same as one enters the mind gets consumed with this one quite different. speak to us every now and they're takers. claimed that

mainstream media has met its make. this talk about blackness and the blues of being black. and always well in a big i don't know at least that's what i've been told but he surely did weigh in remains is such because we simply forgot on. the scene we've allowed them to rearrange their play you've told us the sickness of trusting our enemy and we became defamed. that's what i call a lack of blackness or understanding the blues of being black. sheep to blues or being black should mandate that we attack knowing how when and what to do to come this simple in his natural as be beck is simply to the feeling blue is black and blue.

social environment you're right. chemical discoveries over the last century made every day life easier but at what cost this is cereal is exceptionally sick. no wonder it's confidential. says since the years of industrial giants reap the benefit ignoring the harm caused by chemical production. you know as if these people are. just experimental animals decades later the toxic environment continues to poison lives and we found these astronomically high levels of backs and levels that my staff think maybe some of the highest levels ever found in the united states for almost thirty years this very serious problem had not actually been addressed what will that investigation. into the chemical industry secrets revealed. the.

welcome back to crossfire all things considered and peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing what's happening in the u.k. . ok let me go back to stephen in salford you were i think chuckling at the very end of the per se comment there why go ahead. well i think the idea that jeremy koeppen has spent all of his career basically voting against the leadership of his own party makes him ideally suited to lead negotiations rather strange just because it's a great is a great campaign and he proved it twice when he got when he got elected and re-elected leader when he brought the conservative lead down from twenty points to

just two points but he is a terrible party manager he's still faced with a parliamentary polity the eighty percent of whom roughly still don't really have really don't have very much faith in him and he's leading a policy that is fatally almost fatally divided over one reason why labor did so well in this election is because it basically got lots of young people to vote for it and lots of remain voters to vote for it and yet at the same time the party is committed to leaving the single market so there's a fatal contradiction within the labor party on that matter it has to resolve it and it does not which to you at this moment in time there is with us the reason why the conservatives are in trouble is because they've also got similar contradictions ok i want to go to market so the rich let me go to markets ok you can jump in later steve go ahead mark if you want to be i mean i would expect it to have a long talk about brags it here and i know your position on it where do you fit between our two steve and stephen go ahead on. i disagree. a lot of what was just

said about jeremy corbin i've known jeremy for some years now and so i am full of admiration for the man he has never changed his positions he will not compromise his principles but man was elected at the june one thousand nine hundred three general election the first time he sat on the front bench in the house of commons was off he became later in september two thousand and fifteen why was that because he would not change his views to be in line with the labor leadership that says a great a great thing about this man and also he. has the tough. he's as tough as steel in the two years of his leadership he's we've stood terrible discussed in personal attack from main street from blight we mainstream media naturally from the conservative party and from the blairites in the brown the brown outs from within the parliamentary labor party and you know what's jeremy is still standing and he's standing talk today and let me tell you something about bricks

it's as well. jeremy has said britain is a leaf in the european union no question about it but he has said that the agreement that britain reaches waive the you must be in the interests of u.k. industry must be in the interests of the u.k. economy it is simply unacceptable for the conservatives to approach the negotiations with brussels with a jingoistic attitude because that's what many of them that's why many of them to slightly it's a matter of jingoism and people like bush johnson and liam fox these people are millionaires they don't care if it doesn't work for the u.k. economy but jeremy if he becomes prime minister because the next general election or if the agreement with the pay doesn't work out for the tories jeremy will be a very very tough negotiator and he will ensure the best deal for the british economy. the amounts of chinese indian and japanese diplomats are tell me that

britain is a bridge for them to export goods in so you pay in tyrus and they say you find bridge isn't there anymore what is the point of there being japanese factories for example in the north of england they would simply relocate them so your vote is something that jeremy understands that this is something quite frankly the tories do not on the stand and they don't care about them a is pandering to the heart of a party against the interests of britain ok steve explain something to me in our international audience here you know we have this leader of labor exposing ideas that a lot of people thought well that was like thirty years ago and it didn't work and that's what people rejected with the rise of like margaret thatcher i mean is it millennial the millennial sort of saying this here i mean you know we were you know it's a mantra in the mainstream media that you know this is socialism it doesn't work and you know and you hear this over and over again and i read the manifesto i was

really quite surprised and i was really quite surprised by how much people took an interest in this guy that has been around for a long time he said come on r.t.e. all the time on a regular basis just one m.p. from from london here steve explain it to us what is it is it in london explained how this phenomenon is works because it seems it does go ahead the reason that the reason that neo liberalism appeared to work and i've explained this in my new book can we avoid another financial crisis is that what you maggie thatcher on the list was the financial sector not the manufacturing sector of britain and from when she was in office until when when the crossers occurred in two thousand and ten of course with blair being part of that as well the level of private in britain rise from fifty five percent of g.d.p. to one hundred ninety five percent of g.d.p. now is that incredible increase in finance and credit the gave you what looked like because for the economy for the whole period but a. as a bystander selling more and more private debt when the sting went out in two

thousand and ten the walls fell off what was left of the british economy now at the beginning of the whole thing jeremy was a skeptic because he was critical of the finance sector at the end of it he's a skeptic because it's critical of finance sector he was right in the beginning it was only because of the growth in dab that the system appeared to work for that period of time so it isn't going for socialism in the in the classic old soviet you know central planning sense these are going for democratic socialism which means focusing upon the needs of the people in terms of making sure that there's not a growth of poverty that the wealth is created and distributed that's been completely ignored by the other tories they're now reaping the whirlwind that so germy call them was correct but overwhelmed by credit now is correct and credit is not there anymore ok marcus you know one of the things when i look at the new new like the new newly labor i suppose is it's i wouldn't say it's left in right that i think that continuum is really in the past here when i see what i see him doing is

galvanizing people participation is what he is really calling for and people are reacting to it i think that's really quite interesting because you see you see the phenomena if you agree or disagree you know trump did galvanize the base to act ok if you agree or disagree with him he did propose a democratic process and i think that i think the leads take for granted go ahead marcus while i mean there is you can make any comparison between ok trump and germany corbin sorry look people when people in britain. people in britain are drawn to me for a number of reasons on a personal level he's a very honest decent compassionate human being he's very approachable there is no pretense with him whatsoever unlike what we saw from fracture in tony blair and david cameron out of course theresa may and jeremy has no problem whatsoever in meeting ordinary pay. up and down the country but also people are drawn to him

because of his politics for example we nationalize in the trains re nationalizing energy re nationalizing water we nationalizing the whole male you know pay to so many ordinary put ish families are struggling every single day because of these dreadful costs in for example the train fares and when it comes to gas you know people old people in britain pizza are terrified in the autumn and winter months to turn on their essential hate and system out of fear they won't be able to pay the bill many of them become ill they go into hospital some of them actually die now what jeremy proposed really shocked a chord with millions upon millions of people in britain and it is so refreshing that we have someone like him someone who is with the ordinary people in britain and also his foreign policy is so different to the conservatives and to say to previous labor ladies he's made it very clear that on the him under his leadership

britain will not walk hand in hand with trump and america britain will no longer invade and bomb of a countries he's made it very clear he wants a complete overhaul of britain's relationship with saudi arabia it was jeremy who put up saudi arabia and its links to extremism in terms of june the general election campaign but it's never ok and before it let me in british politics let me go should be rejoicing in a good we go to stephen here stephen it's a carbon became prime minister would what we now is popularly called the deep state let him rule would he be just undercut left and right like what's happening across the pond in washington d.c. you know what i'm getting at go ahead stephen. i do well it's unlikely that he will become prime minister certainly without another general election the has to be no the general election just doesn't have enough seats there aren't enough seats to put together to form a coalition so that's not going to happen without another election. and with

another election i think some of the paradoxes of the contradictions within germany covens appeal may become may on rival if the conservatives get a new leader with a different approach. but yes it's always the fear amongst the left when tony benn of the one nine hundred eighty s. was riding hard there was always the fear that things would go wrong a left labor government we don't know that i would have happened because that happened so i don't know i mean jeremy cooper in there's a lot of fear there were lots of theories about him about his links calling him as friends and distorted quotes but he really at the base of it is basically a left wing social democrat i think he's pretty harmless but that doesn't mean the security services won't look at look upon him as being a threat but i don't know i mean i know lots of political fiction i know lots of conspiracy dramas but i would doubt very much whether we'd see a very british coup if jeremy corbyn is elected prime minister but i do think that's actually still quite unlikely ok stimuli back to steve in london steve i

mean i think in the broadest picture in the last minute we have in this program here is is that you have these neil liberal economic policies and you have this adventurous foreign policy and it's called the perfect storm in this is what is also happening in the political system in britain is that there's a rejection of both simultaneously go ahead steve. i agree and this is also remember the reason that we're talking about bricks it is because the order liberal philosophy that really shaped the european union has been a failure of the laws we wouldn't be trying to leave that particular institution they have liberalism here is been a failure and i think us to realize that so-called deep state but a lot of the policies which have been followed have filed and they themselves think of looking for something of an alternative certainly that's what i'm now inside the bank of england and the treasury so the position the troposphere i sing for actually breaking the rule of law i don't think. that ok gentlemen i have to jump

in here would run out of time i'm very happy the u.k. politics are interesting again many thanks to my guests in london and salford and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t.c. unix time and remember crosstalk. this manufactured. public well. when the ruling classes to protect themselves.

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then stand up in the presence here. calmly people as you clearly are. going to want to sell you on the idea that dropping bombs brings peace to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battles they don't. produce offspring to tell you that they'll be gossip and probably worthwhile for the most important news today. off the madness has been telling you are not cool enough unless you buy their product. all the hawks that we along the border will want.

hundreds of protesters are gathering in central london urging to reserve may to step down following the grunfeld tower disaster. russia's foreign minister demands an explanation from the u.s. side with the recent shooting down of a syrian fighter jet as concerns grow over whether washington has its own agenda in syria. and legendary filmmaker all of a stone whose just released the putin interviews documentary says his film gives a unique view of the west russia and its leader the west is very divided as over you know that they would hate me i'm just a messenger.