not to discuss this and much more with the former your commission president. accident the rise of euro skepticism scaring european politicians into promises of reform while the downturn in relations with the west is making brussels think about a tighter union in europe but with so many different voices inside the bloc can really pick a single direction to move forward it how will the powerhouses of the union bring the newer member states in line and will the powerful stronger integration lead the e.u. to new horizons or the complete breakup. plus one hundred virus so it's really great having you on our show today welcome to pleasure so they're talking about what's going on in european union right now i met quite a lot of european politicians officials and most of them are saying that maybe there is a little too much integration and maybe there is a bit of effect amongst the people about the integration so in your opinion if that's the case how should the move forward without

a consolidated. idea especially if people are a little tired of it well among opinion is and is always being that voice kind of. fundamental discussions about the more europe or less europe we have to be pragmatic. there are areas where we need more integration there are areas where probably we could reverse some of delicious leisure that sometimes appears to intrusive but frankly i don't think it is always helpful to have discussions of ideological philosophical debates about more or less europe because based on my experience of leading u.p.a. and commission ten years what i have seen was that even in times of crisis the moon is too cute financial and suffering that because we have it in europe at

least since the second world war it was possible for you pinion to make progress for instance you have now some elements of a banking union with a common supervisory mechanisms common resolution mechanism that will be considered unthinkable before the crisis so for instance for the countries want to have a common currency definitely it's needed more integration so yeah let's talk about the concrete steps because i know that british thing and here are being touted by politicians which would mean that there are states in iraq like kress and germany who want to tatar integration whoever wants to follow and whoever doesn't want to tatar interation then you know they can just say once again i don't think these vision is correct so tell me if i am donald tusk that it looks like an iron curtain to me what i mean this is one of the misconception that exists about european union is that sometimes this debate about the two speeds comes. already

and in the eighty's there was some ideas about having to do speeds europe in fact the current treaties allow for integration in some areas of the country that won't do it provided. they keep it tonight it's for those who want to join later you see until now that article was not used and it's not true it's completely false that france and germany will always want to go ahead and years and some others don't want to come by the way france voted against because there's no treaty it was a founding member it was not new member states it voted against the new treaties you see so there are some how can i put it some prejudices sometimes inside the european union in terms of debate my experience is that yes it is definitely important that france and germany are together if they don't cooperate

there is not progress but it's not sufficient we also need others and it's very important to avoid any kind of directorial in european union we need to have all member states are respected because of the decree that right now it's to france and specially germany and that's driving the engine or. a collar shop in the new era they are due to be countries in your area but by doing. i can tell you a country like poland is critically important for the union critically important spain as a very strong say italy of course also as a founding member of the netherlands my opinion is that it is a mistake to think that there are two or three countries that lead the show we don't them yes it's not possible because they have a very central position but. it's not enough so it's

a necessary condition but not sufficient condition to have france and germany britain and now i'm very happy but personally because you know i'm very committed to you peon and i think today coming too much better conditions in terms of corporation between france and germany if you don't bring it to speak here or is there reality or we were just saying that if it becomes a reality it's not a good idea i mean once again i'm trying to avoid. depletion of the stereotypes we already have different speeds of integration european union today that's not a new proposal we have countries that are in the euro area countries we are not in the euro area we have countries that are inching in freedom complete freedom of seclusion of people and those that are not ensuring that we have countries that have accepted all the chapters of the internal and just his affairs chapter and the have nots so we already have some variable geometry and i believe we did twenty

eight or twenty seven countries it's a divided to have this kind of variable geometry but what is important is it keep the common purpose and that country if the country is ready and if the country wishes is prevented of going forward if the country wants ok let's not go into the black and white discussion but yet hungary poland and check into submission because they don't want to accept migrant quotas. sure it's not imposed by brazil and it was a vote of all the countries that is and there are many things i don't want to accept but you know it has not left it worse if they want it on and they don't accept you know but that's another myth sometimes you find in the media not only in your media in general. they say imposed by brussels but how can brussels impose

it's a power of the countries it's not a part of the european commission there was a vote by old member states and the qualified majority a very strong majority approved. reception of those refugees and it's true that those countries you have mentioned have reserve ations about it and what they are putting in question is not brussels it's the other governments of europe. you see the other governments that are also sovereign governments that have voted that way so question one of the question was is you suing them or not there's. yes no so right now what do we have should member sell it already trum member savva and that's also a topic that's. everything at once again once again suffering to in europe. is a shared concept i was prime minister of my country i was ten years leading dupion commission but while i was twelve years in the government of my country so i am not

a neural carets in the senate to me i am not a euro craft i believe that we should be independent countries but independent countries that work together for a common purpose and so of course he's given take this is very important to understand if not if we continue to look at the european union like your opinion was. a country like let's say united states of america we are not united states of europe we are group in the union where we have countries that are independent some of them very very old many centuries of existence like my country but that they have decided to share their thoughts of rain so the concept of silvering. is not the same which is in russia or in china or united states in the stance so of course there are those debates and say this is a problem because you're saying integration or tyrant creation is not really a problem do you feel like some member states won more souring t.

and there are political decisions like for instance where migrant quotas do you feel like it's an ancient it stopped i mean of course there are discussions and if you can it is but that's normal and i believe also in our country sometimes even in countries in russia there also discussions are. in united states there are discussions and they are punters so of course between twenty eight or twenty seven countries you cannot expect. in fact i will be i will be very concerned if every country will be agreeing every time with everything in that case it will be an indication that there was probably a superior power that was imposing something no we have these discussions what is important to understand is the trends i just. i want to reiterate that i'm not here a skeptic or a crackpot i'm someone who is observing the process and i'm trying to give you based on my experience some keys to perception analysis that's the point everybody

says you. know you have to write it all the way it should mean yes i knew it's not the same europe as it was ten years ago it seems to me like they're much more problems no i don't agree you know and that's the point so the accent. bret's it is a important issue it was a problem for you was not happy with it but to be honest. britain great we did was always some kind of exceptional case in your opinion britain did not want to be a member of the euro not want to be a member of there was what sometimes you called the british exceptionalism so it's true that it is a problem everything said that if you keep overall integration of dupion even if you manage your by any indicator it's morning diluted now then that ten or twenty years ago but precisely because there isn't there is a movement of integration there is resistance if you just use a dialectic if i can use expression but electic resistance when there is movement

there is a resisting he don't see the migrant situation as a big problem because for us it seems like there is a wedge between the west because of the migrant quota situation and to us it also seems like work said in large part happened because of the my current situation jan not feel like the migrant situation you know right now of commission is a real problem. first of all for the migrants and for the refugees that's a real tragedy. i mean let's put things in context when some of my colleagues in europe say that we have a good big problem i say look our problem is nothing. we do promote people that are suffering and they are dying in the military that these are these. so we have to help these people so let's begin to fade as a problem for your own sheedy's it is an issue that we have to settle but by the way it's no better than two years ago there was some agreements including return. i

think the problem today is under control i think europe and the capacity to integrate. the refugees at the same time we cannot accept everybody that comes to our country and countries it's true i mean all countries have the control of their borders all countries so europe also as their rights to control its borders. but once again it's going to be solved progressively you know you pinion acts by incremental steps step by step you cannot expect the european union in one day twenty eight or twenty seven can say ok the problem solved no we don't expect that because that was not going to happen but to some dialogue with some compromise you'll see that at the end these issues are going to be settled and some years from now the death problem will no longer exist

we're talking shall break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to former player of commission president cause around here and there are some back everything that's going on inside of europe or. what politicians do to do. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president if you. want to. the to the right the first that's what the four three of the more than believe the bible induced it was in the waters in the. air and there's certain.

about your sudden passing i've only just learned you worry yourself and taken your last wrong turn. you're out caught up to us we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry suddenly i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each bathtub but then my feelings started to change you talked about war like it was again still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question our archaea and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral the same as one enters the mind it's consumed with death this one a different person to a speech he announced as there were no other takers or bond to blame that mainstream media has met its maker please.

please. please. you. please. and we're back with closing one year bar so therefore where your commission president barroso want to talk about

a large man at bay because the current here commission president john clarke and kara says while he's holding the job there's going to be no large man but his membership commissioner says one kerry is gone and will accept new members and what do you think i mean right now a lot of things are going on in europe even though you're making it seem like it's ok i mean you've got you know the integration the reform of it to spit thing that migrant do you think you can digest new members i mean especially if it's members that aren't financially viable let me just. not say that they haven't seen these funny you're right there in europe or in other parts of the world you have many problems i mean europe is much much better in the past so i want to put things in perspective historically and also geographically when you see other parts of the world wars going on you hate to mistrust i mean europe from that point of view is doing much better than other parts of the world having

said that i don't want. to seem to know i'm saying that everything is perfect i'm not saying that i'm trying to put things in perspective not coming to the show. it's true that there was some kind of the long term fatigue. it's true because look once again i want to share my experience i was president of the commission between two thousand and four and two thousand fourteen thousand for we were fifteen countries doesn't for twenty eight it means we have a whole almost doubled the number of countries so there was some of the argument fatigue. and it explains why my successor said in the next five years there will be no enlargement but he did not say that there will be no a large amount in the future so i continue to think there will be allotment in the future i think some of the countries in the balkans if they meet the criteria and

if they will do you want to join because you pinion is a union based on liberty and freedom no one these here against its own real by the way from their point of view breaks it is a good example because if a country decides to leave it's free to leave so we are a free union of free countries that's very important with us that it's not like other unions in the past that were by force where one dominates the others we are a free union of free countries so if the countries want to join. i think. we'll have the capacity to adopt them as members yes i think so how do you perceive it and how do you see it while they use rich countries continues to have to bail out the poor no there are differences differences among the member states until now it was possible to. to find solutions sometimes very difficult to read

lot of pain and sacrifice. but once again the more pessimists were wrong and the cynics were wrong i was present of the commission when most people were telling me that the goodies was going to. the market sentiment at that time from new york to london was greece is going to leave they were wrong reasons to remember and i believe it will remain i was just knowing athens so these two precise it to give you an example how strong european integration is much stronger. than most people know that and the resilience of the european union of the euro area is higher than what is commonly said he's my points now i'm a realistic person i'm not saying that everything is perfect i'm not saying that there are no tensions there are tensions there are different levels of development but also in our countries are we for their full of development some of our countries have some parts of the country that are very developed and then there's

less developed at your country russia i'm sure that not all the regions of the same level of prosperity are united states or china so we have to deal with this the question is political questions. do we do better we does a load each country on its own or together that is the point from my point of view it's better to be together because for instance we have seen over the years a convergence do poorest countries or not so rich countries because compared with other parts of the world europe is not so poor but to less prosperous countries have been coming closer to the richer countries if you look at the historical from let's say since they became members until now they have been making progress to the average want to talk about the common european army and that's something that's being talked about more and more you know european security was basically

bankrolled by the americans for seventy years through nato and now trump card elected and you know people in europe are like whoops maybe we should take care of ourselves why did it take traum to make europe think that they should be on their own and haven't answered their own work because the what you are saying now it was basically the message that was put forward by chancellor merkel and i very much support what she said i think she's writes i think the european union countries. should take more responsibility for their defense. now this mean that we should rican the atlantic alliance i don't think so what i think it is rational and reasonable to do is. do you peon union countries doing more collectively in terms of defense but not to be calling something that has been

working until now but that will come all comes down to money because trump says you know i want the members to pay out because america has been paying less than money for nato and all the member states are i clearly have to pay now and plus having an european army is also tied down to finance and you really think you're asked that much financial we're. going to tell you one thing it's not a secret but since the eighty's i've been in many meetings of nato my country representing my country before you being there as present of the commission since the eighty's and i told i don't remember any american president was not asking the european union countries to put more money it's not new or why did it wrong for all except. to george bush. to a. very strongly i mean mr trump does it in these idiosyncratic way but in fact the message is to say i think their trauma new economic point of view do

you have enough resources to invest something more in defense and i think they should do it. every insead this of course it's going to be once again incremental and i want to make this point cletus not going to be a revolution from today tomorrow you know it's going to be incremental we already see germany doing more so there are some ideas that are being circulated and opal the equal there will be some progress for europe why because i believe europe if you do penal introspected in the world. it should not be only as it is today the biggest trade bloc in the world then everybody understands that europe is important in three terms but also progressive leigh assume a more. stable and clear. foreign policy

and defense identity i just have one last question i mean you know that all the sanctions that are put on russia are put on russia because of crimea but realistically speaking you're a very smart man you know i know everyone knows that no amount of sanctions especially at this point is going to make russia give up crimea so what's the point of the sanctions are this sanctions of principle look i was it was not a decision of the commission because decisions as you know in europe in terms of them foreign policy are the responsibility of all the states of member states not of commission but i was in the u.p.a. and summit where those decisions were taken. so i remember very well what was the reason for the sanctions. and the reason was the following. the countries thought that it was very serious what happened between russia and ukraine

. ukraine member of nations a smaller country compared to russia so and there was a sentiment that the international law been violated. and so do you peel country says to react what could be do. military option of course not that's not an option thanks ago nobody wants to come back to do wars. but just to make a statement diplomatic statement to be too weak so sanctions orders a kind of the myths. let's say mid term solution that show our indignation our condemnation we doubt going too far at the same time it was sad that they were done in a way that was scalable and they could be reversible provided there was another

let's say behavior and in fact afterwards in africa made among others by chancellor merkel. the so-called means process where by the way i was invited but i could not go but. there was a commitment of the countries as far as i know that. if there is a respect by russia of the means commitments this issue of sanctions could be looked again so i hope that can happen i really i'm saying that very sincerely i have a great respect for a ship for the country that rasheed for its history or its people for the extraordinary courage and resilience of the russian people i've said that many times to president putin and to world a very important person out in the russian russia is part of the european

civilization so i'm very sad when i see. problems between russia and your opinion but for that we would like to see i'm not speaking now in any official capacity so i'm speaking personally i think it will be important to russia as a more constructive attitude towards ukraine. ukraine's sovereignty growing depends and that based on this we can create confidence and of course sanctions school be at least scale down or even disappear and to have a more let's say constructive relationship between the european union and russia because i think that will be in the interest of all of our peoples the russian people but also the peoples of the european union thank you very much for this entry and we're going to get their access president asked her how tell for helping us host this interview.

in. when lawmakers manufactured incentives to the public will. when the right wing closest to protect themselves. with the financial merry go round listen to the one percent. who ignore middle of the room signal. the real news is really.

just another post deficient girlfriends. the ah ha. moment. in a live show so good that you. just. have to leave the most that you can really. good barbecue for about the. cut of those that might go for the cell phone with a cell phone so. buddy investigate police officers behavior as well. i'll take drugs in the west end up a presence here. calling people as you close. and

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syria accuses israel of aiding terrorists the i.d.f. syrian troops for the second time in two days damascus soldiers. arrested made violent clashes between police ninety brutality protesters in london . c.n.n. reported li imposes new strict rules on its coverage off the network had to retract . my very good morning just to nine am here this monday morning in moscow.