thank. you. well on tell her about washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture the general economic indicators are following are we closer to the next financial crisis than the experts think that's richard wolf in just a moment and if what conservatives say is true and we're too broke to afford

universal health care where we still spending trillions on useless weapons programs . and a christian in finance politics. after the two thousand and eight financial crisis the federal reserve inserted itself directly into our economy like never before and they began buying up trillions of dollars worth of assets the goal was to help stimulate a still struggling economy and depending on who you ask the plan worked or at least prop things up for the time being but what happens when the fed stimulus and can you khana me survive without government backing things up let's ask professor with you richard wolffe visiting professor at the new school co-founder of democracy at work and the author of numerous and brilliant books including capitalism is crisis deepens essays on the global economic meltdown richard wolffe welcome back. thank

you tom glad to be here greg always great having you with us i don't think i'm the only one of the things that once the fed really starts unwinding their stimulus and you know as as you know they're starting to take stuff off the balance sheet now. the next crash might not be far off or at least the next say major market correction what are your thoughts on that. well i think they're very scared they're very worried we already know that from some of the minutes that are released after the fed meets that there's a division amongst them between those who think the economy is doing well enough that they can proceed to do just what you said to sell those assets they bought but there are others who are deeply worried that any move in that direction will speak to the stock market as it has done before and will be a kind of signal that the easy massive cheap money that they have pumped into the system is now not going to be pumped in anymore and an economy that may have been

on life support for several years will tank again and if you look at the automobile industry these days and other key players in the american economy they are already heading down and that can only make the anxiety about what they're thinking of doing even greater so i think you're going to see hemming and hawing in this way and that as they worry about what is in fact the failure of the last ten years we were supposed to a recovery we don't have a recovery because if we were really out of recovery we wouldn't have all these worries it's precisely because we don't have a recovery particularly for the bottom three quarters of our population that this kind of tension and anxiety and uncertainty is so dominant let me lay out a scenario for for you and you can reality check this for me the bankers blew up

our economy is money froze up whatnot the fed said ok we're going to solve this problem by buying a bunch of the toxic crap that the banks has created poisonous assets putting it on our balance sheet and we're going to flood the market with cheap money driving interest rates down to almost zero step one ok so now all. all is free money or this cheap money is out there it's sort of brings the economy back but the economy is now addicted to the cheap money particularly the financial ised part of the economy which increasingly is almost everything even car manufacturers are making their money on their on their mortgage on their loans on their car loans so so then the fed is saying ok well we've got the interest rates down around one percent this is what's holding the economy together but if there is a nother crisis even a small crisis we're going to need to drop interest rates again and we can't do that right now because we're so low already so we've got to get interest rates back up to at least around two percent maybe three percent so that we can be ready for

the next crash and in the process of getting ready for the next crash they cause the next crash does that make sense. absolutely we've had this exact scenario to the t. of what you just laid out in the past it's very clear that this kind of thing can happen because it has happened in the past for example if you tried now to jack up the interest rates in order to prepare for the next recession you're admitting which you should be doing and you should be talking to the american people that the next recession is something that leading policymakers know is on the horizon it's not whether we're going to have one it's only a question of when over the last two hundred years capitalism wherever it existed has had economic downturns every four to seven years will do the math the last one was in two thousand and eight nine. there we go we're due for one and it would be

very unlikely that we don't have one in the next twelve eighteen twenty four months putting aside what that would do it would trump presidency for the federal reserve they can't lower the interest rates as you put it unless they first bring them up but by bringing them up they make houses more expensive cars more expensive all of us will be paying higher monthly payments on our credit cards and that will constrict the economy so they don't know which way to turn this is the sign of an economic system that isn't working very well because it literally does not give you an idea of which way to turn if you want to what void a catastrophe is there also a sign of an administration in this case the bush administration arguably the obama administration for continuing the policies choosing to to put their bats are choosing to solve their economic problems via the fed via financial ization via

cheap money rather than the traditional ways or i don't know of traditional the right word you please. correct me on this but but for lack of a better word the traditional ways of fiscal stimulus that is the government you know borrowing money or even raising taxes and building roads and bridges and hospitals and schools and putting kids through school and things and there is spending money number one and number two the government becoming the employer of last resort or at the very least having a really strong unemployment program which of course the republicans blew up right after the last you know after the last crash i mean isn't that really what it is that over the last ten years we pursued absolutely the stupidest policies. well i think it was it was of pressure if you like from the financial community from the big banks from the conservatives who traditionally are very uncomfortable about having the government take a leading role so they walked it back and let it all be monetary policy the fed

pumping money in traditionally and this is what we teach in american universities a response to a downturn as specially a severe one like the two thousand and eight two thousand and nine downturn would see a mixture of monetary policy money and lower interest rates but also what we call fiscal policy government spending and deficit spending spending more than you take in to stimulate the economy we didn't have very much of the latter especially after the first couple of years when the republican power took over and blocked everything so now we're the chickens are coming home to roost we have what pumped up the money the money has in fact pumped up the stock market pumped up the banks left the mass of people worse off than they were before even if they have a job it has fewer benefits it is less secure it doesn't pay very well all of

that difficulty is coming into piled one on top of the other and to make it very bad that we even have to think about the next recession when for most americans they haven't gotten through the last one so all i would agree with you we didn't do the right policy on afraid mr obama and the democrats didn't push anywhere near as hard as they should of to open that space up for the fiscal policy that we badly needed then and didn't do although weakly in their defense i think no matter how hard they had pushed the republicans would have you know shoved back down their throats they just did not want barack obama to have any success. whatsoever speaking of financialization the financial times has a fascinating new piece out today about the emergence of a new exchange traded fund called e.t.f. as you know that allow everyday investors to bet and make money off the failure of struggling retail stores. isn't there

a metaphor here for the state of capitalism these days i mean this is literally a situation where people are being encouraged to profit off the hollowing out of our economy. absolutely but again tom this is not new this is a very old process in which capitalists who's system situation is you succeed if you make money you fail if you don't have to always be looking for what is going to make them money and bought betting against an industry when it's on the way down is a way to do that so they've simply organized not only to do it which is an old game but to allow masses of people to get in on it which is a little bit newer in our history so that they can sell to the average person a chance to make money while you watch your neighborhood more all grow weeds in the

parking lot you know there's an old joke that capitalists are so busy making money that they will end up selling the noose to the hangman who hangs them because then they're myopic they look at what the system tells them they have to do make money and they don't consider and they don't care about all the social consequences and eventually the argument goes those social consequences will come back and obliterate them and i see and i haven't said this before in my lifetime i see an american economy working its way into that kind of a dead end by its own mechanisms and because a kim faced that the system doesn't work it has to keep going in a kind of zombie way and that's why those on these are in our culture so much towards its own end it's an amazing thing to be watching wow wow remarkable we have just a minute left here professor wolf the u.a.w.

the united auto workers just filed a petition with the national labor relations board to unionize a nissan plant in canton mississippi activists are calling as a big turning point the fight to unionize the south how important is that the we rebuild the labor sector and is there any other way to democratize the economy. well the simplest thing i can tell you is this in the last time the american economy crashed in the one nine hundred thirty s. the american people all mass joined unions and the unions together with socialist and communist parties it has to be said put together a pressure that got wages up that's when we got the first bit of wage law and out of the second world war which was the end result of the pressure to do something for the mass of people we got an economy that grew in a way that we've never seen before or since we're not doing that this time we're not building up wages yes we need unions to do it because no other social force is in a position to do it but that would be building from below instead of trickle down build

from below that's a better way to solve your economic problems even in a capitalist system that doesn't want to look at it and the proof is what happened in the 1930's so yes i think that u.a.w. effort is extremely important because it may be i underscore may be the beginning of a sign that the american working class having listened for eight years to preaching about trickle down has finally had it and is now going to make sure the trickle goes in the other direction from your lips to god's ears professor richard wolffe thanks so much for being with us tonight thank you tom coming up a new showing that republicans think college is bad for america doesn't prove the conservatives are stupid it proves they're in thrall to the fossil fuel industry explain why in tonight's politics panel with brian crude and unchristian.

i think the average viewer just after watching a couple of segments understands that we're telling stories in our critics can't tell me you know why because their advertisers won't let them. in order to create change you have to be honest you have to tell the truth parties able to do that every story is built on going after the back story to what's really happening out there to the american what's happening when a corporation makes a pharmaceutical chills people when a company in the environmental business ends up polluting a river that causes cancer and other illnesses they put all the health risk all the dangers out to the american public those are stories that we tell every week and

you know what they're working. there's a real irony going. to show they are paying a responsible way to meet people and there is always well that's what i think it's always a. little more area now a wholesale surveillance you feel you know i'm only a mile or so into sizes and has used to sell stuff you know that while i always thought that story was it's garbage and real see. all the food we talk to. every. experience. and you get it out of the old the old. according to jeff.

coming from iraq i didn't act. if we can't afford single payer why are we spending billions on a fighter jet that no one actually wants let's ask tonight's politics panel. with me for the night's politics panel brian pruett contributor at red state and political commentator doug christian thank you both for being here with us tonight if you haven't you guys so the priciest weapons program in literally in american history is about to get even pricey are going to bloomberg acquisition costs for lockheed martin's f. thirty five may rise about seven percent to four hundred six billion dollars that's a reversal after several years of estimates that

a decline that had declined to three hundred seventy nine billion from a previous high of thirty three hundred ninety eight billion back in two thousand and fourteen think that's bad when you add in maintenance and operations costs the total cost of the f. thirty five which is still indefinitely grounded still doesn't work is now estimated to be around one point one trillion so we can spend trillions on the sketch you were weapons program soldiers don't even want or like but we can't afford single payer health care i don't get it according university of massachusetts economist year old friedman single payer health care would cost our system about one point five trillion every year that is not a lot of money in the federal budget i mean i realize it's a lot of money but you know when you can you figure most european countries there are federal budget is between thirty five and forty five percent of g.d.p. canada is forty percent of g.d.p. ours is what twelve percent so fifteen percent of g.d.p. something like the most important kind of the only thing that really matters in this debate is that providing for the common defense is actually listed in the

constitution so it's provided for the general welfare but not health care health care is not a guaranteed right general welfare can be sort of. defined in many different ways the army is the only thing in the constitution the u.s. army is the only thing in the u.s. constitution that we are absolutely forbidden to fund for more than two years i would say i would flip that upside down and you go back and read the letters between jefferson and madison during the convention i mean jefferson did not want there to be a standing army during times of peace that was the whole point of the second amendment and the standing army so you know yes defenses in the constitution with so as a general welfare and how can you have life and liberty if you're sick i will be debating that for ever that first i have heard about what that particular phrase means but we do know that that the common defense is required so there are problems with this program and they need to get it under control and really figure out you make a very important point that that congress needs to fund programs that the army actually

are the that the department of defense actually wants and needs in a modern warfare. it's the green corps and the and the this is not a defense program this is the jobs program this is purely to satisfy constituent needs to satisfy a certain companies it has nothing to do with the film they're building a piece of it in every congressional district in the us tell me that was a big you know slick little plant so so you're of the opinion doug and i assume our money might be better spent on a single payer health care anything else and anything. i'll go with that according to a shocking new poll a full fifty eight percent of republicans say colleges and universities have a negative effect on the way things are going in our country just thirty six percent about a third of them say colleges and universities have a positive effect on our country for democrats the exact opposite is true just nineteen percent of democrats say colleges and universities are bad for america

seventy two percent of democrats say colleges and universities are. of higher learning have a positive effect. country so is this proof that the republican party has ceased to be conservative in the traditional sense william f. buckley barry goldwater they honored education and it's become captured by a fossil fuel industry and a right wing whack job specifically a fossil fuel industry that says don't believe that science on climate change and right wing whack jobs who specifically say don't believe that science on evolution science is bad take science of the textbooks let's build museums to hating science it's just i mean the and it's just happened in the last two years of the amazing thing you look at the graph of republican approval of college and here if the six fifty six fifty six percent boom there is a very there is a very very simple explanation for that and it's because college campuses have become bastions of intolerance like actual the whole idea of safe spaces

of thought police of people not being able to engage in the intellectual dialogue that makes college important in people some that happening anywhere i see what i see i see i usually sock story say. why shut concerned national is a right winger wants to bring another right white nationalist right winger on to a college campus pays for the room and then is surprised when people show up to protest right in there you are you saying are you suggesting that colleges were best conservative institutions specter in the vietnam war they weren't conservative but they're becoming anti thought anti intellectual discourse i never thought of you as a bro flake. that is what is happening on college campuses college campuses are trying to shut down thought and discussion it is not always brian cox a college campuses. that's just not the case i mean you've got you know three or four anecdotal stories over the last year this is horse so all over the country where where. go ahead sorry i know you said i mean i feel that yes you're going to

be able to find a few anecdotes here and there you will but it is true that you will find there are certain colleges that will have certain bets but it's not true that all colleges are more the only school to take a definite position on this and say we will allow the free expression of every idea is the university of chicago where the president came out and said do not come here if you don't want to hear ideas you disagree with one school in all of north america no way holy disagree with it i mean you can look through i mean rice university brigham young university i mean all the over and over again you're going to see colleges that have certain points i mean universe of chicago is a kind of where milton friedman was not you know i'm i want to get back to this connection between though this denial of science and this denial of education

because the dial gary's name wasn't one republican in congress who acknowledges climate change. we can there's something they're going to there's no denial of the scientific method please please name one rebel we're going to lose in the east area how is that bay developing knowledge of evolution there there can be a debate about climate change over what. science is do to rid of it but what i'm talking about is your specific numbers talked about what's happened over the last two years and flipping this perception of colleges and the one thing that has changed is a complete intolerance toward any old what you do is so that what you're saying is that republicans now think that colleges are not safe spaces for republicans we don't have even i'm not space and i'm not making jokes that they don't lead a republican system safe spaces or that people well they republicans don't believe colleges are appropriate places to send their kids i think they're trying to

discern whether their child is going to be challenged or whether the liberal intelligentsia is going to force them to think a certain way. you really believe that absolutely you and you really think i think it's one of the most dangerous things that's happening in america today feel that that is that that is really overgeneralization why that's a real problem on all political parties when you actually generalize and that big of a scale i'm completely willing to believe brian i mean brian has never lied to me which i you know and if that is the broad consensus in republican circles that concerns me tremendously excellent over that swelled into the republican party you know for our country and for our colleges ok the internet as we know it is in danger from the trumpet ministration but tech companies are fighting back tomorrow one hundred eighty seven websites including amazon netflix yes even pornhub will participate in a day of action to protest the f.c.c. is plan to scrap net neutrality a legal principle of bans internet service providers like comcast from creating pay

to play fast lanes or blocking content they don't like at the f.c.c. gets its way americans america's internet is going to look a lot like china's but instead of the government blocking websites it'll be corporations doing it not for politics but for profit americans really going to fund that. i actually admit when i'm wrong and you know i think when we first started discussing this over a year ago on your show i was originally in favor of the companies having the right to sell whatever product i think i've switched my mind on this and i would happen to think the arguments have been really persuasive on the other side to keep well and i'm impressed so what well let's get doug in here the first of all very impressed i mean you know it's one thing for anybody to take a side and just stick with it no matter what but to say wait a minute i was wrong. i agree with you by the way that it's ridiculous to allow. basically a resource at this point almost like

a utility to be to be arbitrarily to arbitrary pricing based on what and what companies want rather than to realize that people especially people in more rural areas are going to be beholden to these companies and not be able to. do so so brian what i'm you know i've had this conversation i've been having this debate for a couple of years as you know you've been on the receiving end of a lot of but i also do it on the radio show and i've been talking with you and you're not the only person who has you know now that i've really looked into this you know figured it out and learned that it's not you know the talking points that were put out a originally it's not about freedom it's actually net neutrality is about freedom. what's your sense of how this is going to propagate across conservative circles do you think that there is any hope for that or are they going to continue believing the basically the comcast time warner rise of law again i think what's going to end

up happening is that these companies are going to end up having reputational problems that they will be seen a sinister as. if they begin to. content or. or put some stuff faster some stuff slower and they're going to i think the companies are may come around and the production that everybody was making in the early days of cable when they started slicing and dicing cable systems and coming up with packages which is what they're talking about doing for the internet i think i think this is going to be i think it's going to be an important issue but it's going to end up being companies driving the sure seen what your lead in is about that it's actual companies and websites that are that are leading the way on making sure that net neutrality stays as it is an excellent excellent point brian thank you both for being with us i think it's great having you and that's the way it is tonight and don't forget democracy is not a spectator sport get out there get active tag you're it.

all the field we go through. every the world series. and you'll get it out of the old the old. the old according to. the modern world. the local wal-mart selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the box was new to fight the battle of. the new socks for the tell you that every gossip and

tabloid but most importantly. the positive outlook has been telling you on the cool enough to buy their product. all the hawks that we and all of our audience loves watching her. all the world's a stage and all the news companies merely players but what kind of partners are into american play r.t. america offers more r.t. america first leg in many ways and news landscape is just like the real news big news good actors bad actors and in the end you could never know you're on . the market all the world's a stage all the world's a stage all the.