welcome to the show it's really good to have you with us today so you're after the reformation the transformation of muslim minds you want muslims to embrace the idea of equality and that's despite centuries of scholars work on the koran and rejecting equality putting man woman so what do you hope to achieve. we've had throughout the centuries patriarchal and massaging the stick into potations of islam and it's about time that we. own our faith and religion and present more enlightened or what we call moderate on walsall to interpretations of islam that are. more for egalitarian views regarding women in their societies i want to talk a bit about libya because this is a topic that's very close to you libya's toppled leader moammar qaddafi did a lot for emancipation in libya whatever you like him or not but he unrolled women

and universities and the army gave them rights to divorce and so on so is the new libyan state going to keep this legacy or anything related to him is subject to destruction. well first i'd like to. make a point. whatever women have been women have cheve it has nothing to do with the get their feet per se we need to this tangle this presumption that these rights have been given by giveth and we've seen this argument and discourse going on in many of the arab spring so-called arab spring countries that they see in these women's rights that the were giving in certain time during these regimes as the first lady policies of the case in egypt or as in the case of libya they see it as a byproduct of the so we need to discount all this for us these are. rights that

women have game over time and they have to they have to maintain them so while in most middle eastern countries the role of women is limited in syria and kurdistan for instance women are represented equally on all government levels that's the law discrimination is forbidden is it because they're in kurdistan isn't built on islamic law it's just a secular quasi state which respects religion. oh well that's another problem what do we mean by islamic law. who defines it and who has implemented it so far he need to develop a discourse that goes beyond this dichotomy of secular and islamist. and and to create a space where you have woman fight for women's rights but at the same time

a men tame their faith and i am sure that in the syrian kurds kurds kurdish. case. their secularism is not anti religion so. the problematic that we have in our societies is when you pose the word the term secularism became problematic and became and became. coined a with atheism and to religion so the struggle is how to rican sawmill both words walls the walled off share ya.

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sound point lookout down creek and drum point move to safe harbor immediately as gusty winds and high waves are expected. that we had from before that out of more progressive. claiming that they are contradictory to sharia now this is their claim so i perfectly understand and hear you when you say this was the case in other countries as well yes other countries like saudi arabia in the name of sharia law they have prevented woman from driving cars but we see like in in other countries we have like fifty eight majority dominant muslim countries and all in all other countries muslim woman drive so what we want this is the discourse that we are posing here is

we want to end this monopoly off interpret islam in misawa genest way we want to say no this is not islam this is not even sharia because sharia is a dynamic process and this is so we go back to and review history and history of the development of. the schools legal thought in islam and see how it developed and see how the process sharia itself needs to be contextualized i see this as taking the of the of the debates off a woman as being. as islam being and him there are inherently in neatly misawa genus to religion to another realm where we we have alternative. discourses to the dominant monic of this discourse on islam today so that's why we we ask for more

revisiting of history more revisiting off. of schools of thought. schools of thought including fuck and so no one claims a monopoly of that so that's why in a way. there is an opportunity to to to build a new feminist a new. terror you interpretation of islam and shadi are. secular countries with significant muslim minorities are also struggling to find a good way to live with them france for example is banning not just full face veils there is also talk of banning their regular head scarves like the one you are wearing right now or. are the french right to enforce their vision of secularity in their own country. what the french actually are doing

is the other coin the other face of the same coin forcing on woman a dress code i think the dress code should be women's right in forcing women to put it on and in forcing women to take it off is this is but the c. . act of massaging me so what. france is claiming to do in name of secularism could be contested by other secularist as we have seen and said no this is not actually secularism that this is a distorted understanding of secularism this is actually forcing a state religion on people yes it is so you think you know what for instance for instance if we take example of turkey when turkey knitted to emancipate woman the only way they could do it is too bad legally now it's lifted but it

does seem like sometimes that breaking traditions with force is the only way forward for women's rights in an islamic country because it worked in turkey and that's the only example we have. well i don't think i have to disagree with you and again i think that banning and forcing on women what to do is basically against what i believe in in terms of equality and dignity and freedom of choice so the rights to to dress and undress is basically a right that is should not be taken away from women we still have this reminiscence in our societies today that there is this kind of a feminist who do not. accept woman wearing the

scarf. among them who do not consider them as progressive enough as liberal enough because they they still are a key to their face. and their tradition so i think what we need to do is to to create a platform where we can rican sinai and allow woman. who are still maintaining their face and who still struggling with massage unease in their cultures this is the kind of discourse that we need to see and what we could call it a post-colonial discourse post-colonial feminist discourse and not the typical. discourse so how we'll have to take a short break right now hold your thought there when we're back we'll continue talking to zara long dear libyan advocate for women's rights co-founder of libyan

women's platform for peace discussing the changing role of women in islam stay tuned. what holds a change to something to. put themselves over a lot to begin to show the world reject. so when you want to be president. or some want to be rich. but you're going to be first to see what before three of

them or can't believe that i've been pushed to the waters in the hollow. there should be. about your sudden passing i've only just learnt you worry yourself and taken your last wrong turn. you're out caught up to us we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry suddenly i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each breath . but then my feelings started to change you talked about war like it was again still some more fun to feel those that didn't like to question our archaea and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral the same as one enters the mind gets consumed with death this one quite

different to speak to now because there are no other takers. to blame that mainstream media has met its maker. if. you want but i guess. she refused. to. wear the blue. good. for immigrants it's. never really know for sure but this is.

when i sort of know i. know we're back with a long have a kit for a women's rights leader of the libyan women's platform for peace discussing this struggle to redefine islam as a religion of equality welcome back now judaism and christianity are also religions that use holy texts ways and misogynist messages however we see nowadays priests female rabbi in reform versions of these religions can be reformed

like that to a point where we can see a woman spiritual leader. history of islam we had women leaders and actually the history of reform movements in islam was like the case of the one hubby. movement is it is a row for missed movement but it was puritanical and so. it should introduce misawa genus interpretations of islam so it's quite. the opposite in the history of christianity and judaism so what we need today is to revive and bring back the liberal voices that were there throughout the thirteenth centuries we had women scholars we had women sheriff's we had women fuck women leaders we need to revisit. history with the

with the gender lens and we find all these things so i must. warn. us from using this a call of reformation of islam and because of what we wish for because of the history of reformation or reformists movements in islam were basically puritanical movements and they have introduced views. to the muslim world so we need to transform it to the other side the other way now there's recently been a scandal surrounding a veiled muslim woman who took part in a photo shoot for playboy and another woman is modeling for h. and m. in the job now for many in the muslim world this kind of behavior is unacceptable but for some this is a way to show the west that muslim women aren't all that different so how do you

feel how do you see it. i can see the point of view of both and i have been saying we need to reconcile both points of view because these a woman are not living in a typically muslim majority countries so there could be do you think it's ok to do a little too if i need to or a girl goes for an h. and m. poster what do you think a lot of power i have as a woman who is for woman's rights but also as a religious woman. i think i. said i entertain and understand then to hear both points of view those who think this is. an accepted according to their understanding of islamic tradition and those who thinks that we need to break . to break of the dog and really represent islam.

because we we don't live in a tradition of traditional muslim societies this is a global age and so i can the here and understand these what i can say newish to. off representing them woman in global media well let's talk a bit about politics why do you think every place that the arab spring has touched them we're seeing conservative religious forces taking over i mean you had a vision for post revolution libya but after the revolution the fighting didn't stop and continue with more ferocity what went wrong whose task was it to make sure the transition to democracy happened it's not simply because what is happening is not a transition to do much of authoritarianism or from war or conflict to democracy actually what we're seeing is a transition from dictatorship to failed states and so that tells us

that the template driven policies by the international community on how to andle. what they call transitions is. there's something we live longer about basically we have the so-called democratic two kurds. that you have to introduce in post conflict and it's still any needs a lot of unpacking who's in conflict or a post conflict sometimes it's between you're in. post conflict so the democratic toolkit which basically you have to have elections you have to have draft your own constitution you have to have a multi-party system and a free media. these four elements or they have proven to be a recipe of division and fragmentation and polarization in society and they did not work and did not bring democracy and actually it has caused after five years people

to to question the. democracy that the five years after the libyan revolution you regret calling for days a rage the movement that helped topple khadafi you say it's time to call for comparing compassion and mercy that sounds commendable but people who will do the fighting against those who resist change and those people need rage to win where would any revolution be without that. exactly and i keep on i always call myself. a reflective or a meditating revolutionary i know that part of me in two thousand and eleven was really angry and was passionate but my point is that with passion and anger or rage alone you cannot build societies yes you can you can revolt against the dictator but what about the day after i think we as libyan people did

not give much thought about that and so the rage of passion of the revolution does not build nations and certainly does not build states and the other part of it is that the international community in the name of responsibility to protect which intervened and created this model of the libyan model the life intervention has made drastic mistakes in libya in not having a political strategy for the day after after get so it's internally and externally i think we messier because i'm thinking it's kind of strange that after the libyans support it there are militias for a violent overthrow of khadafi there are now decrying the militias continued violence and power grabbing after the revolution don't you see that as a bit naive. i think. i don't think it's naive i think

it's up to this moment. i think if one is against militarize ation if one is against unchecked militarization if one is against. the arms. you can from the very beginning to the end we had voices that were saying ok you are now arming these revolutionaries but how are we going and specially in the case of libya so the war off liberation or the revolution was took only six months not like the syrian case so. it could have been easy to decide on these revolutionaries but this was not the case so there were voices from the beginning who were thinking about ok we are now arming civilians to get rid of gaddafi and to protect civilians yeah but what on

the other. guys that are alive that people who risk their lives people who killed they want reward why would they seek power that's just a rule of the game that's the way it goes. that's from the point of view of yes warlords definitely and the from the point of view of a certain kind of revolutionaries but that's not kind of it's not the point of view of local communities which i try to represent we want to see the perpetrators of war crimes held accountable we want to see and end to the. and keep in the i don't think it's possible to have a successful transition in libya to democracy if we do not address the root causes and the root cause is basically unchecked militarization of

how you're citing all these examples of what went wrong inside libya after the revolution and you've sad that you know libyans weren't smart enough to seeing what was going to happen the day after the revolution but what about those who helped overthrow the regime from the outside the nato bombing campaign late to the regime change in libya it was what they called a late model intervention and no other regime was put in place why was the west in such a rush in libya why did it leave the country without helping it rebuilt. yeah i definitely hear you and of this is a sound question and i think libya has set. a bad example and the precedence for the life model intervention that that said does not mean that there the international community should not intervene because we've seen what happened in bosnia and kosovo hole in the rwanda and that's his call in the international

conference possibility that what we have is not a little you know yet whose responsibility is it because the british and the french and americans didn't plan on what to do after gadhafi was gone but then again like we'll talk about neither did the libyans who are protesting against him should every last one has a west or should should libyans do something about it themselves no no i i actually this is why i started with the internal factor and failure and then i mentioned the external factor but the external factor we cannot. minimize it because it has intervened and it has created the failed states so there should have been a collaborative effort. with libya.

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spot a tornado go at once into the basement or small central room in a sturdy structure this thunderstorm is capable of producing all types of severe weather including extremely large hail the struct of straight line winds and tornadoes move quickly to a safe shelter such as an interior room a bathroom closet or basement repeating a severe thunderstorm warning has been issued until two forty five am for the following county can delaware in the following counties in maryland caroline can't and queen m's. director of libyan woman's platform for. gender equality talking about the future a woman's rights in islamic countries. spring revolutions that's it for this edition of.

the all. there. yet to almost all the food. lol. yeah.

here's what people have been saying about rejected in the us it is full on. the only show i go out of my way to. use the really packs of oh yeah john oliver of our two year marriage is doing the same we are apparently better than that to see you. never heard of love back to the night not the president of the world bank though he didn't write me seriously send us an e-mail. that's a very rough terrain you sort of climates and you have to fight to be able to find . it was gunshots on top of them and so many friends say what happened and

there may well have been you don't want to leave don't think anything will back up . you know i don't when you see a better body in the true and is ready to participate in the good. old to me the good wouldn't. you don't think about this if this soldier or not you got treated like any other and other patients. you.

were. a journalist caught up in a gun battle and the iraqi city of mosul despite the fact that the city was declared free of islamic state plus. i told the american see snow is in your interests to return to iraq and build your bases you'll get once again the iraqi vice president newly on the lake he has said his country's people will not call the way forward a military base. yes there i think that he's already warned the u.s. against such. italy says it will not be threatened by its neighbors over the border control that's just a country struggles for huge influx of migrants who are here from a local mayor who says his town is at breaking point. r.t.c. .