in a stick into potations of islam and it's about time that we. own our faith and religion and present more enlightened or what we call moderate on walsall to interpretations of islam. more for egalitarian views regarding women in their societies i want to talk a bit about libya because this is a topic that's very close to you libya's toppled leader moammar qaddafi did a lot for emancipation in libya whatever you like him or not but he rolled women and universities and the army gave them rights to divorce and so on so is the new libyan state going to keep this legacy or anything related to him is subject to destruction. well first i'd like to. make a point. whatever women there have been women have it cheve it has nothing to do with get the few percy we need to this tangle this

presumption that these rights have been given by giveth and we've seen this argument and discourse going on in many of the arab spring so-called arab spring countries that they've seen these women's rights that the were giving in certain time during these regimes as the first lady's policies of the case in egypt or as in the case of libya they see it as a byproduct of the very few so we need to discount all this first these are. rights that women have game over time and they have to they have to maintain them so while in most middle eastern countries the role of women is limited in syria and kurdistan for instance women are represented equally on all government levels that's the law discrimination is forbidden is it because they're in kurdistan isn't built on islamic law it's just

a secular quasi state which respects religion. well that's another problem what do we mean by islamic law and who defines it and who has implemented it so far we need to develop a discourse that goes beyond this dichotomy of secular and islamist. and to create a space where you have woman fight for women's rights but at the same time their faith and i am sure that in the syrian kurds kurds kurdish. case. their secularism is not anti religion so. the problematic that we have in our societies when you pose the word the term secularism became problematic and became and became. coined

with atheism and to religion so the struggle is how to reconsolidate both words walls the walled off shared a ya or islam islamic values and i mean by that islamic values and i would not necessarily i see it as islamic strict rulings for me sharia is a dynamic process and i think women need to be trained to one to stand. tradition and to to to to end the not pally of patriarchal. scholars all freight of the religious to still. so let's talk a bit about your perception of sharia and how that changed because you've said this sharia law islamic law isn't set in stone it's based on interpretation and is evolving all the time but for us looking at the state of women's rights in places

which ways there are low on the sharia their position in society is and following at all it's not going anywhere is it even possible to maintain sharia and achievements a patient for women. yeah i hear you and this is exactly the case in post revolution there libya a lot of people are are saying that we want to implement the sharia law and by that they also see that is islamic law and they want to implement it so they see it as a set of laws and they want to. know all the five all the laws that we had from before that out of more progressive. claiming that they are contradictory to sharia now this is their claim so i perfectly understand and hear you when you say this was the case in other

countries as well yes other countries like saudi arabia in the name of sharia law they have prevented woman from driving cars but we see like in in other countries we have like fifty eight majority dominant muslim countries and or in all other countries muslim woman drive so what we want this is the discourse that we are posing here is we want to end this monopoly off interpret islam in mississauga nist way we want to say no this is not islam this is not even sharia because sharia is a dynamic process and this is so we go back to and review history and history of the development of. the schools legal thought in islam and see how it developed and see how the process sharia itself needs to be contextualized i

see this as taking the of the of the debates a woman as being. as islam being. and him there is inherently in neatly massaging mr religion to another realm where we we have alternative. discourses to the dominant monic massager this discourse on islam today so that's why we we ask for more revisiting of history more revisiting of. schools of thought schools of thought including fuck and so no one claims a monopoly of that so that's why in a way there is an opportunity to to to build a new feminist new. tarion interpretation of islam and shadi are.

secular countries with significant muslim minorities are also struggling to find a good way to live with them france for example is banning not just full face veils there is also talk of banning their regular head scarves like the one you are wearing right now or. are the french right to enforce their vision of secularity in their own country. what the french actually are doing is the other coin the other face of the same coin forcing on woman a dress code i think the dress code should be women's right in forcing women to put it on and in forcing women to take it off is this is what the c. . act of massaging me so what. france is claiming to do in name of secularism could be contested by other secularist as we have seen

and said no this is not actually secularism that this is a distorted understanding of secularism this is actually forcing a state religion on people yes it is so you think you know what for instance for instance if we take example of turkey when turkey emitted to emancipate woman the only way they could do it is too bad legally now it's lifted but it does seem like sometimes that breaking traditions with force is the only way forward for women's rights in an islamic country because it worked in turkey and that's the only example we have. well i don't think i have to disagree with you and again i think that banning and forcing on women what to do is basically against what i believe in in terms of equality and

dignity and freedom of choice so the rights to to dress and undress is basically a right that is should not be taken away from women we still have this reminiscence in our societies today that there is this kind of a feminist who do not. accept woman wearing the scarf. among them who do not consider them as progressive enough as liberal enough because they they still are a key to their faith. and their tradition so i think what we need to do is to to create a platform where we can rican sinai and allow woman.

who are still maintaining their face and who still struggling with massage unease in their cultures this is the kind of discourse that we need to see and what we could call it a post-colonial discourse post-colonial feminist discourse and not the typical. discourse so how we'll have to take a short break right now hold your thought there when we're back we'll continue talking to zahra long gear libyan advocate for women's rights co-founder of libyan women's platform for peace discussing the changing role of women in islam stay tuned.

this is a real new zone today we discuss decision to end cia operations in syria russia and the u.s. are working together but most players in this proxy complex aren't happy about this and some surprising but expected developments in ukraine. about your sudden passing i've only just learned you worry yourself and taken your last wrong turn. to caught up to you as we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry honey i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each

breath. but then my feelings started to change you talked about war like it was a cave still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question our ark and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral the same as one enters the mind it's consumed with death this one quite different i speak to you now because there are no other takers. to claim that mainstream media has met its maker. is there when to look for a moment ago we can all get a little older if we go it alone plus i'm a lawyer but i you. know both it was a problem but i guess sort of kind of on the other side of this here for the a dump a lot and there's no fear of use of a little mystery. to get. to.

where they are blue they will get i'm just a good area to look for immigrants it's hit and miss we never really know for sure but this has been a active area. thank you so i can. tell ya you. know what when i started no i did. we're back with zahara long advocate for women's rights leader of the libyan women's platform for peace discussing the struggle to redefine islam as

a religion of equality is a how welcome back now judaism and christianity are also religions that use holy texts with and shouldn't misogynist messages however we see nowadays priests female rabbis in reformed versions of these religions can be reformed like that to a point where we can see a woman spiritual leader. history of islam we had women leaders and actually the history of reform movements in islam was like in the case of the one hubby. movement it is it is a row for mr movement but it was puritanical and so it. should introduce misawa genius interpretations of islam so it's quite. the opposite in the history of christianity and judaism so what we need today is to revive and bring

back the liberal voices that were there throughout the thirteenth centuries we had women scholars we had women sheriffs we had women fuck women leaders we need to revisit. history with a with a gender lens and we find all these things so i must. warn. us from using this a call of reformation of islam and because of what we wish for because of the history of reformation or reformist movements in islam were basically puritanical movements and they have introduced views. to the muslim world so we need to transform it to the other side the other way now there's recently been a scandal surrounding a veiled was slim woman who took part in

a photo shoot for playboy and another woman is modeling for a. job now for many in the muslim world this kind of behavior is unacceptable but for some this is a way to show the west that muslim women aren't all that different so how do you feel how do you see it. i can see the point of view of both and i have been saying we need to reconcile both points of view because these a woman are not living in a typically muslim majority countries so there could be do you think it's ok to do a little too if i need to or a girl goes for an h. and m. poster what do you think a lot of power i have as a woman who is for woman's rights but also as a religious woman. i think i. said i entertain and understand then to hear both points of view those who think this is. an accepted according to

their understanding of islamic tradition and those who thinks that we need to break . to break of the dog and really represent islam. because we don't live in a tradition of traditional muslim societies this is a global age and so i can the here and understand these what i can see you. off representing was slim woman in global media well let's talk a bit about politics why do you think every place that the arab spring has touched them we're seeing conservative religious forces taking over i mean you had a vision for post revolution libya but after the revolution the fighting didn't stop it continued with more ferocity what went wrong whose task was it to make sure

the transition to democracy happened it's not simply because what is happening is not a transition to do much of authoritarianism or from war or conflict to democracy actually what we're seeing is a transition from dictatorship to field states and so that tells us that the template driven policies by the international community on how to andle. what they call transitions is. this something we live longer about basically we have the so-called democratic two kurds. that you have to introduce in post conflict and it's still the ne needs a lot of unpacking who's in conflict or a post conflict sometimes it's between you're in. post conflict so the democratic toolkit which basically you have to have elections you have to have draft your own

constitution you have to have a multi-party system and a free media. these four elements or they have proven to be a recipe of division and fragmentation and polarization in society and it did not work and did not bring democracy and actually it has caused after five years people to to question the. democracy that that five years after there would be a revolution you regret calling for days a rage the movement that helped topple khadafi you say it's time to call for comparing compassion and mercy that sounds commendable but people who will do the fighting against those who resist change and those people need rage to win where would any revolution be without that. exactly and i keep on i always call myself. a reflective or a meditating revolutionary i know that part of me in two thousand and eleven was

really angry and was passionate but my point is that with passion and anger or rage alone you cannot build societies yes you can you can revolt against the dictator but what about the day after i think we as libyan people did not give much thought about that and so the rage of passion of the revolution does not build nations and certainly does not build states and the other part of it is that the international community in the name of responsibility to protect which intervened and created this model of the libyan model the life intervention has made drastic mistakes in libya in not having a political strategy for the day after after it gets so it's internally and

externally i think we messy because i'm thinking it's kind of strange that after the libyan support it there are militias for a violent overthrow of khadafi there are now decrying the militias continued violence and power grabbing after the revolution don't you see that as a bit naive. i think. i don't think it's naive i think it's up to this moment. i think if one is against militarization if one is against unchecked militarization if one is against. the arms. you can from the very beginning to the end we had voices that were saying ok you are now arming these revolutionaries but how are we going and specially in the case of libya so the war off liberation or the revolution was took only six months not

like the syrian case so. it could have been easy to decide on these revolutionaries but this was not the case so there were voices from the beginning who were thinking about ok we are now arming civilians to get rid of gaddafi and to protect civilians yeah but what. their life that people who risk their lives people who killed they want reward why would they seek power that's just a rule of the game that's the way it goes. that's from the point of view of yes warlords definitely and the from the point of view of a certain kind of revolutionaries but that's not kind of it's not the point of view of local communities which i try to represent we want to see the perpetrators of war crimes held accountable we want to see and end to

the. and keep in the i don't think it's possible to have a successful transition in libya to democracy if we do not address the root causes and the root cause is basically unchecked militarization of how you're citing all these examples of what went wrong inside libya after the revolution and you've sad that you know libyans weren't smart enough to seeing what was going to happen the day after the revolution but what about those who helped overthrow the regime from the outside the nato bombing campaign late to the regime change in libya it was what they called a late model intervention and no other regime was put in place why was the west in such a rush in libya why did it leave the country without helping it rebuilt. yeah i definitely hear you and if this is a sound question and i think libya has set. a bad example and the

precedent for the light intervention that that's said does not mean that there the international community should not intervene because we've seen what happened in bosnia and kosovo or in rwanda and that's his call in the international hundred sponsibility that we have is how little you know yet whose responsibility is it because the british and the french and americans didn't plan on what to do after gadhafi was gone but then again like we've talked about neither did the libyans who are protesting against him should every last one has of the west or should should libyans do something about it themselves no no i actually this is why i started with the internal factor and failure and then i mentioned the external factor but the external factor we cannot. minimize it because it has intervened and it has created the failed states so there should have been collaborative

effort. with libyans to deal with. this on them and demobilization and that we have all of the rebels but that was not the case that was not on the table what we had the light model intervention is basically an ad hoc strategy that we have we have a political mission a u.n. political mission that's up to this moment to the fifth year they only extend its mandate for another three months every three months or a six month they extend it so we don't have a comprehensive long term strategy of what are you going to do with libya you know it's rather an ad hoc strategy. no thinking of what to do and so that's why it's creating a lot of mess. and destabilizing the whole region. and again you need to

have the libyan voices heard you need to have a libyan ownership of how they want to believe that they state and nation because i think you cannot build. you have you cannot have state building in libya without having nation building and the question of legitimacy and the question of to address the question of legitimacy to address the question of national identity all these questions after four decades of dictatorship and the loss of identity and with five or five years of military anarchy a lot of things happened and needs to be addressed so what you we need to work on social cohesion nation building. in parallel with state building so the question of back again local. libyan local ownership is important so has thank you very much for this insight and for this interview or talking to the how long you director of

libyan woman's platform for peace and advocate for gender equality in islam talking about the future a women's rights in islamic countries after the wave of the arab spring revolutions that's it for this edition of south sudan call see you next. yes this is how the. whole.

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cruises the b.b.c. coverage of the briggs it process and of ignoring positive stories about leaving the e.u. . i cannot. recall a single. time school or have seen good economic news that the b.b.c. didn't describe despite rick's at. any location households with u.s. lawmakers as a leaked memo suggests brussels is preparing retaliation if washington pushes ahead with new anti russia signs and that could hurt european businesses. plus some members of the french president's party demanded legal action amid concerns emanuel micron is becoming ever.