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hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lobo this is a real news own today we discuss decision to end cia operations in syria russia and the u.s. are working together but most players in this proxy conflict aren't happy about this and some surprising expected developments in ukraine.

crossed knocking some stories in the media i'm joined by my guest here in moscow exactly a morone he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strout poll we also have dimitri bobbitt she's a political analyst with sputnik international and in london we crossed to adam garri he is a writer for the duran dot com cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate adam let me go to you first here. trumps decision to end cia operations in syria was expected actually there was a safe this they should now operations over a month ago there's been a lot of reactions i think it's quite curious you know the first thing is that the neo con crowd says well of course trump is caved to putin but they don't reflect upon almost six years of utter failure description at a huge price in so many different ways we saw this coming i suppose we should have expected the reaction is well go ahead out of london well absolutely and the

russian presidential spokesman dmitri firm of the subject wasn't even touched on during the discussions that trump and putin had at the recent g. twenty in how the board. the thing is that trump came up against logic it has nothing to do with russia it has to do with the fact that these jihadi lawford's fighters that began the united states began funding under obama and arming to the teeth with all the ormes the cia gave them they couldn't do much with them they were ineffective fighters and now we see the ride the killing each other making temporary truce which don't really lead to anything and they're getting totally obliterated by the much better trained much better equipped still syrian arab army and their allies so it was simply a logistical logical decision the made the kurdish fighters that america is now backing one hundred percent or simply more organized operating force however credit

where it is due you mention the kurds are demilitarized tell you just go ahead real quick. just credit where it's due to draw because i don't want to make it seem too mercenary this is what i've called many times the most clear cut battle between good and evil since the great patriotic war and donald trump does deserve some measure of credit for withdrawing america's might with the worlds to funding and he has an evil jihad al qaeda but it hasn't done that completely the us military is still there d m a good the turkish can go i mean turkey a member of nato it divulge the location of american military bases in syria not a nice thing to do but what's happening here is that the americans now or can't between the kurds and turkey ok all that so there's another problem we have to resolve here there is no real solution that's a terrible legacy. from obama i mean. it was obama who started financing the so-called more direct opposition in syria which had

a strange. each in the cards or the syrian soldiers it was barack obama who basically. want the us. russian relations seem to deadlock by skating just simply confiscate and to all russian. in washington and with turkey again it's a terrible legacy because what happened is that i mean look at it from the turkish point of view. where an air gun came to power it was still kemalist cameleers and can walk if you will but it's normal because camel is europeanization of turkey if europe is sick if europe gets into a conflict with russia for nor parent reason if it is a soul. then cambodia is makes no sense also many of them could replace cameleers if. good relations with syria with iran if russia did not get involved but can i'm sure that i was stupid enough to get involved in syria one of the

interesting things here is there being. live who is if we have a scorecard here who's come out on top in this conflict here because you know the the great boogie man in the west particularly in the united states is iran ok it ran his amazingly benefited from this era in support of the legitimate legal government in damascus and the the west washington and the israelis have themselves to blame for this because of course and russia as well why because supported a legal government in syria and so it's an example for every kind of rebellions we want to be supported by west in a i don't know kind of country but systems that would see that when you are such an ally like your russia or like iran you're not sure to win it's a complete change if you compare what's up in kosovo or it's open. in libya or in during the arab spring so in my opinion for the for the place of the russian

diplomacy it's a very strong state because not everybody and you can look at it. in libya or any. fricken countries everybody wants to be a ally of russia saw for a show they have an avenue of that's what let's move forward here adam you know one of the interesting things again there's the issue of blowback in thinking about that what is the next step which is when it comes to syria the west has never been able to think clearly right now ok the cia is good it would through our funding in arming now we have these trained some of them trained or a lot of them went over to the other side went to fight with isis now you have a disgruntled element within syria that has connections with the west training from the west i have to wonder how they're going to feel about having the rug pulled out from under them i wonder what they're going to do go back to their european countries go to the united states interesting go ahead well they have several

options we're seeing quite a few of them already play out first of all some of them will take advantage of president assad's adam and steve whereby if they put down their guns and make a commitment not to engage in insurgent activities they'll be able to lead normal lives according to the own wishes that however is a minority most of these people are looking to the quickest route the jihad the express to libya the failed state of their being where the three by some accounts four different factions competing for government and those are just the semi legitimate ones then you've got gangs you've got isis you've got al-qaeda you've got other terrorists that's where they're going to go the next stop on the jihad express is the western balkans that's their gateway into europe and through their connections with other terrorist groups which are already freely operating in the occupied serbian province of calls only talk here then they can go anywhere in

europe including on planes which go directly to the united states so while syria is closing its border with lebanon and right now hezbollah and the syrian arab. or engage in ferocious fighting in the winning it against remnants of. the west is leaving the doors wide open i know it's a nice wide open because they've got more important things to do which is have the drive around in their tanks and post them waiting for the big invisible russian invasion that's never going to happen where they should be patrolling the world you're. singing to the choir here. i think it's an interesting situation going back to the middle east the aggressor have lost i mean the united states is nor want to use an entirely base they had to pull out of turkey. the european forces are not using interleague base neither. basically when our bombers started the campaign of drawn killings in yemen look the result there is alters that yemen is no more

dangerous to americans then that they are the point in its history who war on iran russia who were not very active in the beginning what involved all the later when you're invited vision actually and when ziad and legally when dividing them when syria indeed faced foreign intervention and it became absolutely necessary and rush to get involved and through this they i mean russia and iran they improve their credentials and what is very important of all of the points about the american intervention in syria was to beat russia and iran you know took it to the sunni arab states against iran and russia russia was accused by our all the local liberals of pekin the sides between the sunni and shias and jews in the shiites now that we have qatar which is by some strange twist of fortune and they all lie to a key and they run their system is collapsing well it's russia never going to do it

usually you know that you made a choice between the liberals when he went over the russians started to perish and after being invited it's important to underline by sir the obama. so you have got the yes although yeah you know where is. the police body bags when your body bags when you have guests and there is a completely different war but it's really interesting is that again this is another major setback for the israelis and their partner in the middle east the saudis this is something where you and you know the israelis are absolutely furious when we go back to out of here they're very they're furious that erat may have military bases in syria again another backfired. that we've seen coming out of town and riyadh. this is a turning into a full scale catastrophe for them and it was of their own making go ahead out of.

well israel is complaining about iran in syria as you say but what about the fact that israel has illegally occupied syria since nineteen sixty seven we don't hear about that now do we what we have just now from the very beginning of this cease fire that america and russia with jordan reached in respect of the southwestern frontiers of syria the litmus test for its success or failure was always going to be the israeli reaction now israel is moaning and netanyahu moaned in france he's moaning from the hilltops he's moaning so loud he probably can't even hear the gunfire the stones being thrown in the bodies being hold on to the pavement in jerusalem right now as we speak but they're simply worried about syria exercising its sovereign right to have relations with any portion or it wants israel is a rogue state israel is a country that not only moans about other countries having partnerships while failing to acknowledge its illegal occupations of solving nations but they also try

to give the i know is that i have to jump in here in america and rather i have to jump in here gentlemen we have to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on stories in the news stay with. if. you can revolt against the dictator but what about the day after i think we as libyan people did not give much thought about that and so the range of the passion of the resolution does not build nations at all and certainly does not. bill states.

it's a very rough terrain you sort of claim and. you have to fight to be able to live. it was gunshots on top of them and so many friends who would have been. even. you know i don't want. to see it but a body in this world is ready to participate in the good. old to live good wouldn't . you don't think about these if these so. you got three like and you know another patient.

welcome back to cross talk or all things considered i'm peter lo we're discussing stories in the news. ok let me go back to adam in london i started the this program by saying that we do real news i want to do a real news story that hasn't gotten much coverage in the mainstream what's been going on in eastern ukraine or as some people would say translated into russian little russia i'm sorry translate into english little russia is come into existence what's the story there in a nutshell adam go ahead. well the story started in sixteen fifteen and something called true love and this is with russia was invited by the local cossack spark into what was always historic russian land to fight poland and take it back

and that's what it did the more southern regions called norval to see it were taken from turkey more and more of the matter and it's good you bring this money can you bring us much closer to the present what's going on there ok so i don't. know you know i know you don't have to show up on this program or what's the significance of this there has been some kind of declaration of sovereignty what's going on go ahead. so last week the leader of the don't yet speedballs republic alexander. he declared the state of of model c. or little russia now the declaration was important for the historic reasons obviously and it's important also because it shows the penultimate rejection of. many of its allied individuals representatives from places like called of or another regions it shows that they all have signed a document that says the kiev regime represents a failed state but what's the most interesting thing is about this model to see

a declaration isn't all that different from the minsk agreement which both sides in the current conflict are supposed to be adhering to both call for self-determination both call for recognition of multiple indigenous languages both call for total cessation of violence and both call for a return to civil government so the problem with the minsk accords as this declaration really reveals isn't that they're on reasonable or unworkable it's that the main polity to them the kiev regime is so unreasonable ok and so frankly look at. moscow's reaction the kremlin's reaction was very tepid they said this is a personal personal initiative. the nurses are not standing by what's going on not on a limb off callback that you will ganske you know all the other center of. resistance so they also said we were warned about it we have not been you know that well i think that the statement from mr zahar janica was emotional and i understand where

it comes from you know the problem is that the following ukraine was using. by a group of people who do not represent the majority the majority of ukrainians their group has almost lost the elections their only election that they were russian liberals was in two thousand and five when you shouldn't be forced to rerun all the elections thanks to the western help and there was. a commission which consisted of his people and they declared him the victor in general they all of us wanted actions because there are more people leaving it would just. let me do this when exactly i did not why now what's going on now it's linked to i was invited by the as a high single government to one of my. situation is difficult for people living in the dinner in the in my opinion. for poroshenko to show that the means every

month are not working so he must propose something to the people the first think you propose is economic integration with russia it's a both and last when it's already happening you know any it's a real challenge thanks to. those eleven full day out all of a sort of as a physical sink to the south and saying it's ok we respect the agreement but we'll change we want we want we want to lift ukraine but we will change the composition of the country and there will be something like you know during the twenty's when the capital of the. soviet you're in was completely different in my opinion it's something that. told for its population and for the kremlin to terrorism do something because. it's a topic is a very it was over there we go back there and i mean this is just a reflection of the reality on the ground more or less the mean way because of this

blockade the. have no choice but to deal with russia that's where they get their food imports i mean all kinds of legal things now that they have that like you know registering births and deaths and and even even i think that a driver is highly unlikely to get out of here this is a reflection of reality on the ground and really to get here and the west to really implement the minsk accords or start something different go ahead well i think it's high time to start something different because it's just it's just incapable of enforcing anything let alone the means could cause and i think one positive development in respect of reactions to the model to see a little russia declaration is how little has been said from the united states if the obama was in the white house victoria nuland head would have literally exploded

when the word small little see it came out of goes about but silence from washington the americans under trump they don't really care about sixteen fifty four and all this other stuff they really don't this could be a good thing because it might allow for the regime in kiev to collapse not true the and then for some sort of negotiated peace to come into play which may actually look a great deal like the mother will see a declaration names aside but what's more important than the name is what actually happens and that this historic area is brought into a unitary or bit of cooperation democratically of course with between russia and what is now called ok may jump out economic sense. it makes sense but i think with little russia what we see is also of the collapse of the myth of putin who is their grass and who wants all ukraine for him so all at least the russian speaking region see if you if you remember two thousand and fourteen when the whole thing

started with crimea and gone by us the western press was full of maps like russian speaking regions of ukraine are in the east in the southeast in the sols grainier and in the southwest interest you have a russian speaking and believe so putin wants to unite them all now we have a suggestion for ask him to do just that and wants that reaction from more school we haven't authorised it which to do that means chords there is one thing that the western public should understand the more than russian the leadership is not about expansion it's not about territorial gains they want to have good business relations with the west they want to leave when they want to save borders what country are they want to have safe borders the yes but they're not about you know when the kyrgyzstan had their rebellion they invited the russian troops in two thousand and ten and they love you know it's never good living there and the west was surprised i remember that was that people had been surprised and simply they

didn't for the irony of it with the russians or flee the russians would invade i couldn't get my head around that one ok exactly what's this about the western response to this because i think it's really interesting is anybody interested in ukraine anymore i don't think so i think everybody is tired and if you look at the meeting between. poroshenko i'm sorry but it was embarrassing it was like a slave was always smiling like can you do it and when when luck or. what you want which was for me everybody is tiring of ukraine but to underline that there is a milestone in one year is a parliamentary election that completely changes things because. of course nationalists with flaws the small but. strategic. positions and. which is a real never known as this is a president of the parliament it will be completely. changed because.

failure. will fade so. parliament and so it could be or maybe we are at this time and there surely is unrest so are. we so we mentioned this on this you know here we have the new york let me address this to them here i was looking at the national interest which i think sometimes has some very interesting articles. that suggest readers take a look at it but you know this sudden dawning that all my goodness these right wing militias could be a threat to the government in kiev we've been saying that for five years on this program ok now we've already got everybody's waking up to it and then we don't you know it's holding their nose is that we shouldn't be we should keep our distance from it now they actually were part of creating this mess in ukraine and now they don't have the interest in big single problem they created go ahead adam in london well sometimes it's best not to have a north and is join the fire brigade as an act of prepared which is what america

and the e.u. fixing the problem would amount to indeed the biggest threat to the regime in kiev is not from any foreign actor and it is not from the don't yet. it's from the fascist elements who think i hope you're sitting down everyone when you're watching this that the government in kiev that it's not quite extreme enough that it's not waging total war but it has and proudly proclaimed the genocide that you can you people on the streets of members of the. right sector or talking about constantly and it's these people who have engaged in political assassinations it's these people whose videos of them beating the hell out of politicians all over youtube throwing them in dumpsters and cetera and it's these. people who are going to launch a my dorm two point zero speaking of turkey one of my favorite quotes is from. who said they go as they. are going to.

go ahead well i would just remind you of there again the nationalists have never won almost elections in ukraine and that's why a project is about there if you look at the map you know when there was democracy in ukraine in the east ninety percent of the people voted for the corniest and for the party of regions in the west ninety percent of the people voted for the nationalists but the point is that the current government is so weak you know the reason of why they cannot fulfil that means courts let me remind you in all the first of august two thousand and fifteen when the ukrainian or rather started discussing you know that special status for the bus group or right wing extremist staged a demonstration near their other one of them through a green media kenyan three policeman and then even then minister of interior of ukraine and other crazy a nationalist walk up he came out and he said where flees by fascists and the words are just. as the same times because that is the most. the minister

of told that. accommodation the autonomy of the nation not an obligation right out of time gentlemen many thanks to my guests here in moscow and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember. to. leave. yes so well this is how the. closely.

here's what people have been saying about redacted a knighthood to us exactly just pull along awesome for the only show i go out of my way to launch you know what it is that really packs a punch at least yampa is the john oliver of r t america is doing the same we are apparently better than blue the things that i see people you've never heard of love went back to the night my president of the world bank paid him but he doesn't write me cheerfully send us an e-mail.

this winter with me but i can only get a little bit cold was. my somalia but i. know both of us better get some kind of sign of this yes or no pussy a dump and just know she will be going to the city. where. he will get just a good area for immigrants it's miss we never really know for sure but this has been a. thank you so much. yes i. know well when i started no i did.

i. remember. i'm. sleeping. but i do. know that it. was.

a leaked memo suggests brussels is preparing retaliation if washington pushes ahead with new anti russia sanctions that could hurt european businesses that delegation to hold talks with us will make his. case trade secretary accuses the b.b.c. of biased coverage of the brakes in process and of ignoring positive stories about leaving the e.u. i cannot. recall a single recent times when i have seen good economic news the b.b.c. didn't describe both despite brics and i. the french president's policy demand legal action amid concerns among all my craw.