but she had a message that did not resonate and he won wisconsin michigan pennsylvania those rust belt states and it was huge shock because people just want to jobs so we're going to look at the solutions to this with our guest a piece or telling we're going to look at the various headlines across the past twenty thirty years the trade deals that were blames like nafta and did they really lose all their jobs because of those trade deals like nafta or was it china and. and then going forward even britain is bringing jobs back even a remote possibility in this day of artificial intelligence of robots of automation in a lot of people we've last year on the summer solutions we cover the concept of a basic income or universal basic income and i see this year mark zuckerberg all the tech silicon tech guys are saying yes we need a basic income so we're going to go over some of these sort of possible solutions to jobs and if it's possible the universal basic income thing was definitely being

picked up by the tech billionaires possibly to keep them from being alleged or to keep the whole system in place because of course suits them it also addresses the huge problem that does need a solution is we have a consumer economy seventy over seventy percent of our global g.d.p. is consumption so if if all these captains of industry deliver massive efficiency for their shareholders by hiring you know robots and automation. well do the robots have hunger and do they need food or they need to buy it off as a beauty product side who is going to buy the products that these robots are making so efficiently so i think it's a good thing to talk to a piece of tele about at the. click so that in the woods that anyone with a rail or something like that philosophical thought dave the telly welcome back good to be with you max i love it on the trade deals what role if any did nafta play in the decimation of u.s.

jobs there is one a media role we know that nafta destabilized the small farmers of mexico they were dislodged from mexico they flooded the u.s. market and they started to work in u.s. factory farms created a lot of cheap food and cheap food was necessary because the average american worker hasn't seen a raise for something like thirty years and it's all part of this matrix of productivity as stacey pointed out of productivity profiteering of trying to squeeze a little bit more out of a consumer market a consumer driven economy when the people the consumers don't have access to the kind of wages they had at the end of world war two when the united states took off so you know i think nafta and w t o and china and international labor markets play a role i don't know that they're the main driver in some ways i actually think the main driver has been technology automation i take for example coal jobs here you

talked about maggie nomics and donald trump and i think maggie nomics has a great idea if you can build a time machine for three hundred twenty million people because it's an idea it's an economic idea that i think has has disappeared and what we've seen over the last particularly twenty years is a transition phase from an economy where you had. basically good wages for skilled and low. skilled jobs that allowed people to sustain a family of four and consume and now that those jobs are gone it's very difficult to make up the difference and one of the ways to make up the difference is massive amounts of debt maybe another way to make up the difference is universal basic income. and one of the ways that you create a profit margin in that environment is you move from one labor market to another and that's really what corporations have done over the course of the last twenty

five thirty years is to squeeze more profitability out of an economy that i think is actually been in many ways stagnant it wasn't for things like intervention by the fed the wasn't for massive amounts of consumer credit flooding the zone i think that the stagflation of the late seventy's would have been the norm it's really only government intervention and things like trade deals that have mitigated this long term ossification of consumer capitalism they consumer is what seventy percent of the economy the consumer is not making enough money to participate in the economy it would seem like these two lines are going to enter sac that some kind of economic armageddon but then you look up and around and you see that they have a laws a new app the canadian government where if you are behaving well you get points and so this is part of the casino model that i've mentioned over the last couple of

years there is when you think about it as the families being destroyed institutions are being destroyed but the soul of the human being is being sucked into a gaming platform via their smartphone and they are being devolving into our back in the seventies we had the fabulous punk group of davao and now we are having in real time thanks to smartphones and these point gaming systems being odd offered by governments they know they don't want workers and consumers they just want. agents in their massive multiplayer game a bit of a crazy question maybe even j.p. or thought all they get i guess i also was a huge fan of devo still am we're all divo max we're all divo. this is very much like to me opening up the credit markets which happened during the reagan ministration and really took off under clinton i think one of the untold stories of the clip ministration is that reaganomics basically went went off the rails in one

thousand nine hundred seven with the stock market crash we had a long recession in the united states and clinton basically softened and revived reaganomics and completed the reaganomics revolution in many ways and one of the ways that he did it was by kind of working hand in glove with consumer debt providers to flood the zone with dead and create a rationale to sustain a mark a market idea that was already in decline and i think this gaming system this this gulag casino model that you're talking about in canada i really think it's the same thing with universal basic income it's a band-aid it's a way of trying to ameliorate a problem as opposed to facing the fact that we may actually be in the middle of a wholesale transformation of the way. developed societies organize themselves because you know one of the reasons why investors love getting into these emerging markets is because they haven't been saturated with consumer products yet so there's a latent need that can be exploited and and profit can be made i think in

if you look at markets like japan which is kind of the classic right of secular stagnation of a market that doesn't have the kind of growth that people on wall street want they want three four five percent growth i think really the thing that we have to cope with here in the twenty first century is perhaps the idea that unlimited growth is not sustainable and it's actually not a workable model that the growth. what we saw in the post-war period after world war two was something that happened in that particular situation when the united states was able to expand its empire take take the reins from from the britain from the brits expand a hydrocarbon economy thanks to massive amounts of basically keynesian influence into the global hydrocarbon market through the defense budget because basically defense budget was what it was

a subsidy for oil and gas because why why is why is centcom in the middle east at central command the pentagon divides the world into command structures north com is north america why isn't america central command why is the middle east antrel command because the middle east is central to all the pentagon's planning and why is that because it's all about delivering hydrocarbons in higher carbons did what they they fueled the american empire and and that massive post-war growth and that was done through what through the allocation of tax dollars into their fence budget so you know all of this fed a consumer market that i believe has become saturated as mary fact the head of ikea i think it was last summer remarked that we may have reached peak stuff and i do think that in the in the developed world we have kind of reached peak stuff and what you see is people looking for other ways of extracting some kind of meaning out of life other than going to a shopping mall and spending a day shopping and going to the food court has sipping on an orange julius i

nothing against arduous i love them has actually my first job i worked at risk to last my sixteen so you know i want to bring it back to this notion of competition because you know first we have. you know the american empire developed under a gold standard so we didn't want to just give away our wealth we actually had to it wasn't something that we wanted to do so you had to compete with the other manufacturers around the world you had to maintain your infrastructure you had to maintain your productive capacity and your you know your your workers you wanted to invest in them and invest in their education and invest in having the best. national workforce because you were competing because of the gold standard with the rest of the world then we went off the gold standard once in seventy one then. communism collapsed the soviet union that had kept us honest from one thousand

seventy one until one nine hundred ninety area so we had to compete with them with their ideology of a different sort of economic set up and system competing for workers competing for ideas competing for the an ideology how you structure their qana me and now in a way like the fact that all the the soviet sort of communist system failed us the gold standard failed for the u.s. we went bankrupt like what it feels like there's nothing keeping us on this is all like the global elite are all the same whether they're in china or new york or london or paris like they're all like in cahoots together and they're not competing with each other they're just like plundering everybody else's does that seem right to you there's a lot that seems right to me i mean this is the francis fukuyama idea right the end of history in the last man once the wall falls. and neo liberal if you want to call

it door advance liberal economics in advanced liberal democracies have defeated the totalitarian regimes and now there's nothing to stand in its way and history doesn't have to be involved in a dialectical process there is the you have to cut off there and we must go to break we're going to pick it up on francis fukuyama and this and his insight about anyway we're going to break don't go away stay right there. here's what people have been saying about redacted and i would do exactly just pull on awesome out of the really show i go out of my way to you know really what it is that really packs a punch to believe yeah it is the john oliver of our to be america's do this and we are apparently better than movies that it's a fable you never heard of love. redacted tonight not the president of the world

bank so take your time to let me seriously send us an e-mail ploughboy hard selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings peace to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battles they believe to do socks credit tell you that they'll be gossip and tabloid by style for the most important day. off the bad guys i'm telling you on the cool enough to buy their product. these are the hawks that we along with our audience will be watching. i mean. that's a very rough terrain you saw it's rough play minutes and you have to fight to be able to the flank. it was gunshots on top of them and so very fresh what happened in the morning and i may even not i. don't think anything will back

up. you know i don't want to see it but it will be in the truth and it's ready to participate in the good. old to me put to it wouldn't. you don't think about this if this sold to on you just three teams played and you know and the other patients. in. the future used to strengthen the proper machine retrieve the member states and the secretariat of course and this partnership combined night has to be governed by one basic understanding or principle that really makes this a great paper trying to have the flexibility to undertake the programs and results and indeed to rebut must do more to treat. complete people once all of member states.

so the guys report i might as or what they say i haven't got time i continued with the j pace the telly of news vandal j.p. welcome back good to be back with you what it was before we go on what is news vandal dot com usually handle it's kind of my personal web site i'm hoping to expand it into a full service news site and what i do five days a week is i put out a thing called the news vandal rundown i aggregate i start with about four or five hundred stories i collect in the morning and i boil that down to. the thirty or forty stories that i think tell you what's going on in the news cycle and i stack them so that the headlines actually tell a med a story is what i call it so if you read all the headlines in order you can

basically get a sense of what's going on in the news cycle way out having to actually read any of the articles but hopefully you'll find some articles in there that you like and you will follow as well how many of you it sounds fantastic of course it is fantastic that's why i come on our show all right so let's continue our discussion there imagine francis fukuyama he put out that statement the end of history when that. name yeah. that's obvious collapse and lead but apparently that was premature right yeah and i think stacey is correct that the presence of the soviet union in a way kept the united states and the free world as you know we love to colorado the leader of the free world the free world was kept honest by the presence of the soviet union and the communism or communism and socialism or marxism leninism or whatever however you want to categorize it its presence was a challenge and it kept. western democracies and neo liberal economics on its toes it actually had to offer

a better better product in comparison after the fall of the soviet union i think it is true to. a true statement to say that it was basically a wild west there's nothing there there's no check there's no balance but this is also interestingly the time when financialization takes off and when the making of products at labor we're going to have you know the widget company we're going to put it out on the stock market people are going to eventually invest in the widget company and we're going to make great widgets and the people who make the wages are going to make a good wage that they could go out and buy widgets from other widget companies you know after the crash of one nine hundred eighty seven you could see that the financialization that began in the reagan ministration that led to that crash remember junk bonds really took over the economy where the buying and selling of debt the commodification of debt the buying and selling of money the buying and selling of stocks and gaming gaming stocks so that you can make them rise and fall

and making all of your money off of. marginal trades in the stock market you know the making of products came to an end and i'm not sure if that's something that completely went hand in glove with the fall of the soviet union but it is interesting that they were timed with one another and i don't think it's completely coincidental it's certainly is part of an overall rot in the entire consumer capitalist system it just doesn't it's not says i just think there's a point at which it's no longer sustainable to keep selling people the next refrigerator or the next t.v. or the next i pod and then the next i phone there's only so far that i think you can go with that because you know it also what that has done is created a system but whereby as stacey pointed out you have an elite who are looking at the people of the financier as the financial elites i think that's really the best way to do to refer to them the financial elites see a system in which they so squeeze the market because labor is the one thing in the

different means of production that you can really control as you remember max. when you had all the corporate raiders during the reagan years what was the first thing they did when they when they raided a company they saw all of the past accounts and the assets and they fired everybody and all the employees that's it and so the people who would have bought the widgets no longer had the ability to buy the widgets and by selling off the pension stuff they couldn't buy the widgets when they were retired either so there's like a game that has been established ever since then whereby markets rise they make money on the upside they crash they make money on the down side they get the taxpayers come in and bail them out start over again started with the savings and loan and then went to the for a one way and for a one k. dot com rising crash and then we got the subprime housing market rising crash and

it seems like we're in the middle of something similar to a rise in crash i think a lot of it has to do with quantitative easing and the and stock buybacks that have artificially inflated the market so when is this crash going to come we've got the subprime auto loans we've got we've got a lot of we've got a lot like a huge portion of americans like like forty percent of americans who can't pay like a five hundred dollars auto repair bill on a given month so you know we find ways of ameliorating the problem without actually confronting it or solving it and i think the real problem is that with breaux bots looming and automation looming there's a new study out of ball state university one half of all low skilled jobs are likely to be automated in the next couple decades and one in four american jobs are likely to go to another labor market overseas and the next coming decades it's being called a toxic brew and this is the toxic brew that got right trump elected but it's not

a toxic brew that's going to be solved by anything other than confronting the fact that we are shifting the way. society is organized by financialization talk about the one nine hundred eighty s. of course the crash of eighty seven gave. the program trading and the bailout meisters down there at the plant protection team and the government stepped in and started to have control of price discovery so markets were no longer buyers and sellers and prices were no longer reflective of supply and demand prices are being set first by goldman sachs and others and then they fill in the tray and secondarily to get to that price that they have pre-determined as the price they want so price settle becomes a behavior all carrot to move people in a certain direction and their ability to have influence in the economy and the political economy is their own people have no influence them no agency in this

economy whatsoever they're being led by the nose by prices that are being manipulated through what you describe as a spy nationalization process and we see this continuing now as company after company abandoned their suppose it interests and manufacturing of the car companies make more money lending money to buy cars they do making cars pharmaceutical companies are you know making money on their p. and l. on the wall street more than they are doing the business so we have this kind of rock technology is out of the box it's a rock technology that's out of control but people love it because it's tied to money and i think tied to money must be great america because they were so many in america so there's no turning back to a pig well yeah and in not in the ninety's when we got into this for a one k. mania which is instead of having defined. benefit pension plans erase the whole it's go you know it's it's going to the market the markets are growing let's get in there on this tech bubble this tech bubble is going to

make us all rich and we're going to have these amazing retirements where we're going to be windsurfing and golfing all day and will be taking by agra to be an amazing amazing time. when we were retired baby boomer dream well they basically took people's money and sucked it into the into into the stock market which has been a dream of wall street for a long time to get the average worker's. income into the stock market so they could utilize because prior to the ninety's only a small portion of americans had any kind of actual vested interest in the stock market well people became day traders by the end of the ninety's and so now the stock market has become the barometer for the health of the economy when the stock market is very similar to what you're talking about and in canada it's a casino it's a game it's actually fully a game and not of we're not even organized around making widgets we're organized around buying and selling debt i mean it's so much of what happens to you know with

derivatives it's buying and selling debt it's commodification of liabilities which is a p. i'm going to jump in here because we only have a few minutes left i want to talk about some of the solutions it seems like a silicon valley who is the last innovation and last jobs available in america in america and we talk about making america great again a mag anomic is it seems their solution as a form of feudalism because we see the likes of google and facebook and building properties and developments for their their employees to live because their employees even though these are allegedly the highest salaries in america can even afford the rents there they're also saying we should have a universal basic income so if there's one solution being offered by the titans of silicon valley is a feudalism a form of feudalism and and basic income on the other hand you see goldman sachs and janet yellen have both said in the past week or two that you know is the opioid epidemic is basically causing the catastrophe in the american economy and goldman

sachs seems to suggest that we're going to run out of money to incarcerate all these drug addicts as well so those two are like it seems like opioid addiction which is. like a slow suicide or join one of these futile lawrence become one of their serves and those are your two options they are there are other solutions besides those two bleak ones if it's tough it does feel like we're at a fork in the road between a sort of a roddenberry star trek future or a dystopian you know blade runner future. you know i look at you talk about this rentier economy that this futile economy is a great example of that right they came in they found this is this possibility that people would want to work as their own independent contractors driving other people and they inserted themselves in it and they've profited by being a middleman and i think that art of the future is one in which we become micro entrepreneurs in a sense it's a it's a form of barter economy where we take our own. our own

work into our own hands and we own our own work but what we need is open source networks where you don't have an intermediary who is sucking that drive for their own by the because of their own profit motive so coming up with those open source networks i think is going to be very difficult i think this is one of the places where government can step in because to government you need an arbiter because you could say that craigslist is open source but it's also kind of a wild west you need an umpire to make sure that all of the trades are are done fairly and according to some kind of law or regulation but if individuals are trading amongst themselves and hyper local is the local trades in a hyper local economies i think that's one that's one possibility i think you know one thing that has to be a part of every discussion is that the basics of life are going to have to be met at a societal level this is so security this is health care this is something

any any kind of safety net that's necessary to make sure that people who are falling. through the cracks don't fall into the kind of abyss of opioid addiction it just imagine if if nobody had to worry about where their health care was coming from it might actually unleash on entrepreneurial ism at the at a smaller level for small business owners because one of things that restricts them is what is health care costs so if there's some kind of floor ice where we all come to say a social contract it might actually unleash people to be interesting lee enough and a libertarian kind of way i mike rogers printers and trade with one another. you know ultimately i think we're going to have to wrap our heads around a decision between being a society based on acquisitiveness where we were are we all we do is acquire stuff or inquisitiveness where we organize ourselves around the acquisition of knowledge all right jane you've got to kind of that thanks so much for being on the kaiser

a part they very much max and stacey going to do for this edition of the kaiser report with me max geyser and stacy herbert i guess j.p. so. than is vandal dot com if you want to rate us on twitter it's cause report that i can buy. in america they can all get a middle. class and the more than you but i you. know both of us are about i guess sort of kind of. this yes or no but if he had done by hand just know that that is. where they at bu go get

a good area for immigrants it's. never really know for sure but this is been a active area. thank you so i. am. no where when i started no i didn't. get. a batch or sudden passing i've only just learned you worry yourself and taken your last wrong turn. your attitude up to you as we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry but only i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each breath. but then my feelings started to change you talked about war like it was a cave still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question our ark and i

secretly promised to never be like it said one does not please a few more the same as one enters the mind gets consumed with death this one different person to speak to now because there are no other takers. to claim that mainstream media has met its maker. military they all. see the boss at. least a little. bit to all this is all the food. bowl the. pump.

cut it. does. fleur used to be a professional hockey player who won a stanley cup the moment the girl who was living the dream but who six had a dark side. time i was fourteen to sixteen i was fifteen. so. i couldn't sleep after many years of silence. from.

sexual abuse. through the justice system. top story this germany's economy minister says counter measures could be taken in response to a new u.s. bill. on the russian. officials to avoid raising concerns that european businesses are going to be hit. also this thirty minutes news a long time aide to a number of high profile u.s. house democrat says the rest charges of committing financial fraud trying to leave the country one of the many controversies surrounding this stuff the details ahead . continues to be gripped by violent national strike has been called by the opposition we speak exclusively to the country's president.