hello and welcome to crossfire all things considered i'm peter lavelle i suppose it's time to speak the obvious cold war two point zero is officially on this cold war is different and possibly far more dangerous these are uncharted waters as the trump white house attempts to find its footing and. cross talking sanctions for sanctions i'm joined by my guest here in moscow mark sloboda he's an international affairs and security analyst we also have and he's

the president of the american university in moscow and we have blood on your goldstein he is an associate professor of slavic studies at brown university right gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ed let me go to you first you're the greatest booster for u.s. russia relations that i've ever met in my life and you continue to do it now we have sanctions for sanctions we have once president trump signs that it's where we all assume that he will he is essentially handcuffed himself when it comes to relations with russia under these sanction bill he has to go to congressional committees to move forward his agenda in russia with it which seems extremely unlikely where are we and are we in a cold war two point zero. always trying to find some positive story i know you're really well known for other words. this is the bankers so i get mine. so. signals first of all what you

want to avoid of course it's military confrontation and people. talk to syria. pretty positive is stop this crazy cruise maybe the dangers or even criminal support for so-called moderate rebels because we know once your view for reference to moderate some powers is so strong somehow end up and so it's not so moderate and you know i mean cynics would say that was in part of the plan it was intentional they are literally allied. with al qaeda who are that is there's no question about it now it's all of our least i mean what i said last week you mean the u.s. the u.s. still has a really meaningful middle military footprint in syria just because the cia operation were officially told i don't ever believe anything official or unofficial in terms of cia and its very nature let me let me go to you i mean let me read

something that secretary of state tillerson said about these things she has here the near unanimous votes for the sanctions legislation in congress represent the strong will of the american people really do see russia take steps to improve relations with the united states it's a very strange sentence i will continue with in the secretary of state we hope that there will be cooperation between our two countries on major global issues and these sanctions will no longer be necessary i have no idea what he's trying to say here well i think he's trying to be diplomatic here basically says don't pay a big despise the sanctions where we're going to to all you know that's not the big deal but you know i suspect that both. are kind of scandalized by by this unit the name of the gross and they media over there you know saying that the fact that you know this they decided moralists to restrict the power of only a well i mean you know how unanimous is that of the american people. i take issue

with it what i wouldn't take issue is there's a unanimous view in the liberal mainstream media and the political classes of both major parties that seems clear to me mark it's very interesting that there's no sense of causality here russia is reaction to sanctions that the us put on russia and we had seven months. there where the russian side looked at the us would have a change of position it didn't it lost patience and under diplomatic rules russia was supposed to retaliate if we have to keep rounds of sanctions in getting water here because this this latest round of russian counter sanctions is a response to obama's last sanctions on his way out the door in order to try to and that tie the hands of the trump regime when it comes to cooperating or detente with russia now when these new sanctions imposed by congress over donald trump's heads

russia will have an entirely new and different reaction to that which will not be small but you kind of scoop my own notes out and it's a ridiculous statement out of such dichotomies and tautologies coming out of someone's mouth i don't think anyone's heard it since maybe torquemada was sitting next to the people he was torturing as he turns the screws i'm only doing this to improve our relations but. it's. member you know. more preterm. border police it's over now we have sanctions it's a positive thing so it's for it's very good but gentlemen i'm what i think is interesting the big. there's always the lack of trying to understand the other side during the cold war there was that effort to put yourself in the other guy shoes this is not happening right now the fact of the matter is vladimir that russia will blow all. these sayings. it's like they did once before and we act accordingly this

perception in the west and russia is i fully isolated is nonsense it is not isolated it is looking it will looked for new places for new people and new relationships and that's how international relations work i think. i would spend some time with it because basically the sanctions we view them as just russian but . try. to those kind of scandalized by that they basically say that we have as good as we're going to tell the president of the united states what to do in terms of foreign policy and this is kind of outrageous so he's trying to sort of square this circle here so i'll just say we're still we will be in charge we're still want to talk to him so he says saying he's basically saying it's not our decision but we have to go along with. it and this is. a great degree that the mystic quote of the that is exactly you know the interesting thing is against we try to step back here on this program. russia meddled in the american

election russia hack the american election there are investigations going on now we have the public hasn't been given any kind of proof but the u.s. government in congress has already made its drawn its conclusions when we have no conclusions whatsoever i mean that this is the folly of all of this here you again act before you know what the what the facts are on the ground and they're not interested in facts because none of them have really been produced the socks out from under my bed. but the bottom line is all of these accusations there is no evidence presented there can't even be any evidence because neither the f.b.i. the n.s.a. the cia the office the office of the director of national intelligence no one actually looked at the purported scene of the crime that democratic national committee servers where e-mails were supposedly hacked by russia. wiki leaks says

they got them from a whistleblower and then these emails exposed to the d.n.c. and the hillary can come main colluded to. break their own primary to have hillary clinton elected and that is what this is all about and since the scene of the crime was never investigated there can't possibly be any evidence but i think a lot of mayor is absolutely right that this is the russian government even referred to it said that this is an internal domestic strife in the united states and that donald trump is an effective captive in the white house and the way the foreign policy has outraged admitted in the headlines what we've been talking about on the show for months the war over who controls us foreign policy has begun and that's elizabeth rosenberg you know what's interesting and you know you you have you live in the swamp if i can say that but what's really interesting to me is

that like weapons of mass destruction in iraq is that even people that question the. the media approach the message of the russian conspiracy it's people have already absorbed it that russia did something against the united states and it was meaningful and it needs to be you need a reaction to it and then in a sense the mainstream media even though they trip over themselves they make all kinds of mistakes they have to make retractions they say idiotic things but they have succeeded in their message it's really quite remarkable. you for your. approval rating for congress. it's now around twenty percent so it shows i think it's another positive sign that body rich twenty four of the twenty percent approval rating wants to take over foreign policy which according to consumer. so the president. i don't know maybe some limit it's considerably lower should see if

this is kind of our us constitution well you know i'm going to put more considering the way the president has to. be behaved these of the his attorney general i mean you would have he would have found an ally like jeff sessions were able to say something like that and then talk about that later in the program here but when we go from here i mean you know you're a person that was born in the soviet union moved to the united states and you know who would have thought you know you were probably a dissident here and. there how does that happen it's a way they said. i recognize the president of. decline which united states goes and they think they don't want to face it they don't let it come nigh that that's why they created this cable so it's much better to watch it as an easy scapegoat today to be kind of traditional it falls into the you know the recent a very interesting article by a great scholar. allude to

a quote says that basically if you look at united states you know more the hope of religion can't afford a new car. defined by cars so yes it was obvious to everyone that they were not going to support such a school can do this they wouldn't go for two or maybe for bored me but you know i think by to establishment republican party they don't recognize so that i see is them a stick issue trying to divert the attention they tried to rush rush of course you have to walk kind of our lives so that was as they have probed have to realize that you know this is american domestic will pursue our own interests ok let me go to mark in thirty seconds here mark i mean we risk going and do you agree with cold war two point zero. well let me just say that i've kind of reversed the vladimir's i'm a dissident from the u.s. who immigrated to russia i'm going the. new age of persian we don't want to be in any cold war since probably since august of two thousand and eight possibly as early as back. two thousand and three two thousand and five with the color

revolutions that failed in ukraine and georgia but i prefer to think of it not as an ideological struggle left. to democracy capitalism but as a great power conflict hold only that we're going to go to a short break and after our short break we'll continue our discussion on new sanctions stay with our. economic development is all about numbers really pleased to report this quarter we are one hundred six point two. but what do we know about the other figures. when i think about the fact that our c.e.o. mike do. over twenty million dollars last year more than one thousand

times the average wal-mart associate. with all due respect i have to say i don't think that's right. just tell a free market works. people went from pretty simple financial lives pre nine hundred eighty to the point now where people are. just totally submerged in their financial accounts and they're all in debt and what exactly divided society from the part of the government tried to do that nicely maybe. it might be making things worse. by saying this is not work this is. hopelessly disastrously wrong. the knot winds up. on the flues up. the definitions in.

the. south. take in the city. and then you're going to bring. me think i'm. glad. i didn't you know well that. sounds our. next guest feeling if one means i love just not enough. this one tokyo found it was going to go. the way. it is what it was because did

a busy dense and cultural preview of the grammys. welcome back to cross talk or all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the new sanctions. ok mark let me go back to you and we opened up a can of worms is this cold war two point zero and i think it is and you were nuancing it go ahead yeah i think it's more of a great power conflict if we take a look at it from a realist international relations theory paradigm because while all of this is going on we have to remember that these sanctions target not only russia countering america's adversaries through sanctions act russia iran north korea it actually sanction syria again as well. also sanctions the european union you have to

actively this is affected what effectively this is what it does in the sense of so there's multiple players in this while all this is going on the u.s. this week twice fired on the radio and ships in the gulf of mexico no that was not the gulf of mexico that was the question you don't fly here so here all persia are playing games of chicken with the chinese in the south china sea we're firing ballistic missiles. tat with north korea we're playing these games in syria were a betting another. revolution attempt in venezuela this is this is global great power conflict and it's the us it was ideological russia and the rest of the countries in the world that would hold them for not having an ideology i think that weakens them but they rely more on culture and civilization and this is the liberal ideology of the us versus the rebuilding it's all but it's a liberal out of you know it is very aggressive you would let me weigh in on that because you know you left the soviet union when it was

a very ideological place what it would have now of course had there with the collapse of the soviet union in using ideology came into being the united states this exceptional country you know little control of the wall. albright said a higher than they were and we can simply ignore so we can shoot anyone who wants so there's you know a little approach but it was a very short personal you by the way i think it was and we see this being it's crumbling it's crumbling but we have this new plays. on the block from china to russia and they then i take it anymore and united states rather than sort of change in trying to recognize sort of the you know that is that there is. you know what it should be i think things will go and they persist and i think that's that's the ideology you know and you know you've watched this this bilateral relationship very closely one of the things that i find very interesting is that you have. from political leaders in the united states and particularly the liberal media uninformed lib. all media very bombastic statements about russia particularly in.

president vladimir putin but you don't see the only other on the other side you don't see that kind of bomb but basically from what i get and i'm paraphrasing here the russian foreign ministry they're waiting for the americans to come to their senses ok but i mean for you know a rival in an adversary russia's rhetoric is a quite mild in comparison to the american hero it's pretty sad because for the first media who are goes over it's kind of a symbol you know of. and our integrity and all of that now i think if you can see it. that the u.s. media mainstream lost its virginity if i can say it and. now russian media it was kind of belatedly i think mark could get to the. russian media of course it's not solved but we were talking about leaders every russian leader

whether it's pushing or. or any of this quote for us that you're the tough talk so you know some talk through this but they always say yes but the open we're open for cooperate we understand the world challenges only if us and our shared work together because here's this from us media or us politicians you only hear it's from the russian side that's why i think russia is now it's going to advanced it's position it's going to be more. sympathetic to it should be to you going to american people the problem is the mainstream media they will never get that message that's that's the problem the filter is over yesterday and they did and they demand well thank you everything they demand to be the filter ok i mean they are the. protectors of this ideology to make sure that the american people only hear one message here that should be used what more are fighting it all for us let's let's take a. look at what the u.s.

media is framing this ideological debate they're trying to say that trump and russia represent some kind of kobol conspiracy a international ideological movement that is reactionary against against liberalism against a liberal who germany and this is the political frame of reference for everything that the western mainstream media which is overwhelmingly liberal and the foreign policy commentary blog looks at it we no longer have conservatism we no longer have left is these have been really framed and reworded as. you liberalism and authoritarianism and this is an attempt to de legitimize anything and everything in the political sphere except for a liberal it sounds very very soviet to me and i mean and how would we have a counter reaction to it i mean in the last few weeks on fluxes primary week they

show now with tucker carlson we have seen him going back and forth with interviews with max blumenthal a lefty gal bird a marine corps vet and congressman woman from hawaii who is it was a staunch left democrat with glenn greenwald who is basically going to go in a few months ago and and this is where this technocratic liberal center has forced conservative voices on one side and left voices on the other they're having to reach around and suddenly we have more in common than we thought we did particularly on issues of foreign policy and military intervention in the that's a very interesting one and i think you're absolutely right but these people are a lot of the people that mark just mentioned are very prominent well known widely respected but they become demonized as well for changing their position that is really quite remarkable when i think of the names that mark just mentioned there these people earned their good name for. reason and now they're being torn down

this demonisation just saw that i would go back to the nazis when they came up with this kind of you know to to scapegoat they came up with this sort of. judeo bushies on the one hand taking the group of people do it on the other hand is butchers so imo they move to what they don't like now this or that they don't work . so they try to merge it with try to democratize it they try to make it to the wall say to me it is despicable i say how do you know that if a record of modern liberalism is intolerance absolutely and i think it walks. the walk on do they have to demand eyes which is i had but but i know that it's a whole wall there's a big wall there india china they're not buying this stuff anymore europeans are buying that's not anymore so i think it's pretty rare for local consumption or for local media which i think of the you know he was speaking earlier about syria and

there's a lot of international issues that major countries like the united states and russia. could work together on with this sanction new sanction bill here and this very odd statement that i read from secretary tillerson this is a rhetorical but at the end of the day do you think that they're going to get down and work together on issues of common concern this is just you know this is just for show it shows because we were talking before the program is that you know something must be done that so it has been done now we have to move on well if i'm trying to be optimistic mark i go. if i read. all those papers lately it's very sanctimonious know i can't believe the sanctimonious language and it's not illegal language it's sanctimonious is the way i see it's kind of authorized to use. implement

a so it's not like there are demands. already. so it's up to trump to make a decision to dump them i think that's another positive you see we turn to find some positive signals so but if. they're in this unlike the europeans the europeans that it's a smart way when it comes to sanctions they they agreed to continue the medicine six more a six month interval in the u.s. case you have to have a vote in congress which i think will never ever happen i'm ok take it you're ok tax and exactly but what we could see here mark is that if particularly the germans and the austrians if they see that their energy security is threatened by these sanctions and coming out of washington they didn't take in into regard their interest here we could see the europeans not only refuse but we tally eight we're going to see it first. because the europeans will go all that we know and well i

mean there were no i mean on a no no not with energy security they're not going to just give up and buy a very expensive l.n.g. from the united states no no no they're not going to do that so far we don't hear anything. on the other sort of things going some of the anti american sanctions so far we don't hear what exactly they have you know we haven't heard any specifics but we have heard so words come out of younker the president of the european commission joint statements out of the the german and austrian chancellor's office they're all they're all concerned about their energy security because this bill because the u.s. and russia don't do a whole lot of business with each other this is a massive bill it sanctions mining energy banks defense intelligence shipping but russia and the u.s. don't do a lot of trade together so it's going to do what they you know pretty is target other countries and their business with russia and this is why europe depends for russia on over thirty percent of their energy supply and that. growing so this the

house foreign affairs committee official statement on this ten reasons you should support this bill is it helps bolster europe's energy security and it does it does it just the opposite it get improves cooperation with our allies or russian influence in europe the europeans while are screaming that you're infringing on our interns security you're trying to tell us what is in our own you know what the enemy has been doing this to russia first so that is why you know again it's not it's not presented honestly in western media that is why there and dish and all pipelines to germany directly from russia because the country that is the biggest risk to european energy security is ukraine i'll give you the last twenty seconds. after sort of realize this didn't sink in the you know when they had this. you know victoria nuland was there people said what you will think she was there would have say screw you this it's continuation over and over but they still think the

us has they should sink in well this is what happens when you when you go down the postmodernists road and you give up yourself when you're in trouble you don't have any recourse gentlemen we've run out of time many thanks to my guests here in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember. when lol make this manufacture consent to stick it to the public well. when the ruling closest to protect themselves. when the final larry go round lifts only the one percent.

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taking responsibility for their security which we would for if you were also treachery. about your sudden passing i have only just learned you worry yourself in taking your last turn. here at the top to you as we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry finally i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each breath. but then my feelings started to change you talked about war like it was again still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question our arc and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral the same as one enters the mind it's consumed with death this one quite

different i speak to you now because there are no other takers. to claim that mainstream media has met its maker. protests over venezuela's election for a constituent assembly claim eleven lives with almost one hundred people arrested the opposition is calling for a new day. nationwide. islamic state. in the iraqi embassy in afghanistan's capital kabul several explosions. being reported. during. their six year stronghold in the lebanon highlands to what used to be the terrorists in the month.