because the promise of the new u.s. administration to mend ties with russia foreign policy hawks and their merican political establishment are standing firmly against a warming of relations. is there a way forward for a last go on washington we ask a woman who helped the two great powers find common ground at the height of the cold war advisor to president ronald reagan russian scholar and author. is with me today. twenty five years since the end of the cold war the u.s.

and russia once again find themselves a broiled in a standoff with aid rivalries regenerated and tensions rising with the white house changeover there is hope that personal goals are we. may be remembering spiralling out of control. of a new us president be able to pour in common ground with moscow and shakes there's more oil to settle clashes of economic and political interests a little more personal approach by the two leaders really be a decisive factor in lifting the relationship out of the rubble. suzanne massie advisor to president reagan on russian foreign policy it's really great to have you on our show today welcome thank you until happy to be here so the washington post says that the white house doesn't have enough capable experts on russia and a more compared to reagan times what do you think is our people who are behind the russian foreign policy in washington misinformed well i'd like to be tactful about

this but i do think we have a lack of such things recently we did recently. much more recently. no i don't think right now that we have i don't like the word expert but i mean people who really know you and who know the language who know your history and who feel your history i don't feel we have very many like that right now in official positions now when you start working with president reagan he actually reached out to you because you wanted to work with people that weren't part of his inner self circle washington experts right. do you think the current administration is ready to make an effort like that. i wouldn't speak for them i think that everybody in america at this moment it seems is very confused about a new president or where you're going and what he's going to say next i sent it to him and. i happen to care

a great deal for us and i have for many years and i have always maintained the exact position from the beginning and that is that you have a lot to give us and we have a lot to give you and we should be together because together we could do a great deal more than we can do apart for the rest of the world that's been my position if they ever wanted to talk to me about that i would be happy. for you species own russian relations why do you think voices like yours are ignored they're not there on the american public is very very different from what is now being heard in the united states it comes from washington and it comes from some of the media. much good stuff exists on the internet if you want to look for it but the great public and i say that basically sometimes

even read forgets that washington is not. united states anymore than paris is all of france we have other places and i have been saying that instead of trying to concentrate all the time on washington you should be concentrating on other places in the united states. i have given lectures in every state of the united states except alaska and hawaii and i have seen the same thing and done now for about twenty years. the same thing american people the public is always very curious about you they always want to know they always say to me why russia why did i go and study abroad. i ask questions they're curious and they are not hostile americans even up in maine i live in maine which is a state of fishermen and boat builders and and you know even the men who came in to

plow our snow the night i left before i left says exactly the same thing is i'm saying. we should be together you know he kept saying you know i don't like what they're saying for us all right and that is the fact and so i wouldn't take seriously this things that are said now in limited ways and say that the public feels that way no american i have ever met would like to have a war with you well when i turn on the t.v. her or read the newspapers anyone who actually speaks out for mending ties with russia is automatically branded a kremlin spy i mean look at trump is there a place for positive opinion about russia in american mainstream at all yes but remember who the mainstream is run by

a very few people in the end i don't know how many people actually control the media and i'm talking. c.n.n. fox news etc they are corporations and those people are the ones who correct their i know that mainstream this what you're hearing and what i'm saying is you know too much attention to it it is not the mainstream of public. and yet. i don't hesitate to say what i feel but i have. my like. you know what i name them name them a few things about russia today you may not have read in the newspapers. and you see how people flock to hear that but they think it's even to the people themselves are hostile towards russia. one sided image of russia in the mainstream leads to

concrete actions for instance trump is constantly coming under fire for alleged ties with russia ok but look at he's president bush the president's national security adviser who was actually forced to resign and that's after marriage she was maintaining dialogue with russian officials i'm wondering if this is actually going to turn into a mccarthy witch hunt against ministration just because they want to mend ties people have mentioned and people as a say distinguished stephen cohen who you may know. i'm not sure what's going to happen in the next thing because all of us senators don't feel that way. i don't know about our house of representatives but our senators many of whom i know don't feel this way. many of them have noticed exactly what you're saying. many i would say influential people in the united states and that means professors

people who are in the field also have noticed it and there is quite a reaction against it so. i'm not sure it's as pessimistic as you see hopefully now want to go back a little bit to your cooperation with president reagan because reagan did choose to negotiate but at the same time he didn't back down from military confrontation so what do you think of adopting reagan peace through strength policy today actually do you think this military power is needed to preserve stability i don't personally that's my answer i don't actually i'm very sorry for the amount of weapons not only the united states or russia or anybody i really think that the world needs less. instead of more there are some people who make a great deal of money from and therefore they have a great deal of interest in seeing precisely the kind of.

mainstream that you're talking about. because i always ask what point is what would we gaining from this i think we gain very little i would like to see much less and particularly ronald reagan's dream which was. less and hopefully no atomic weapons so just to sum this up g.e. you think that the current administration will overcome the political establishment objections to have a thaw with russia i hope so i hope so there are many people who are concerned just because we don't know yet what form the let's say the new administration is going to take it's not even so entirely i think you're right i have observed the same thing that there are a group of people with washington they're not all transparent who absolutely would

like to throw up so it would depend on whether trump has the guts to go against whole establishment that he does know. you know the phrase trust but verify which reagan actually was famous for you are the one who taught him that that's a russian proverb translated into english and that has since become part of the american people a tickle dictionary of the american they're selling everything from soup to nuts on the so do you think there is room for a trust now i mean can american leadership billet and not trust with russians to actually be able to verify. i hope so we were working in that direction i can tell you there are masses of people who could but will they be in power we don't know that yet i think we have to wait a little bit and see what happens and that's the advice i would give to anyone here is just wait

a little and see what's happening before you act too quickly i don't know what's going to happen i have no idea with and that is you know if you read our newspapers is in the newspapers every day what's going on what's going to happen we don't know there are some real people against the senate and other places. and we'll see who wins this but i can only tell you that the public does count and the public does not want war with russia and why should they there's no reason for it so i like to trust in the intelligence of the american public does have a kind of an intelligence and collective intelligence and i think that remark in public was very anxious for a change. because of many things not just because of you or foreign policy.

and they did that. and now everybody is adjusting to that change and it's a new personality reagan after all had a lot of experience governing he's been governor of california really big states and very important state for two terms so he has a lot of experience with the public remember that he had going around he had spoken for g four and he himself gave that a lot of credit for his the kind of president he was but he has an awful lot of appearances i mean knew how to talk to the public now that's missing. right. to try and made a lot of money in not he didn't necessarily talk to the public or know the public very well so again we have to wait reagan but i know how people denigrated reagan. did they do it they kept saying he was the same media that you're talking

about said that he was a two bit actor that he never read that he really was kind of stupid and wanted to sleep all the time and. that's not true yeah look what happened he was one of the greatest presidents of united states he also read all the time and that's how he got to know me you had all my books suzanne we're going to take a short break right now when we come back we'll continue talking to suzanne massie advisor to ronald reagan on russian relations stay with us. we're going to walk still with you on the idea that dropping bombs. to the chicken

hawks was new to fight the battle. for new socks for the tell you everything off in public but please. tell me you are not full enough to fight. this all before we go on. walking. thank you for new to the game this is how it works now the economy is built around corporations corporations run washington washington media the media over voters elected the businessman to run this country business equals power you must it's not business as usual it's business like it's never been done before .

and we're back with suzanne nancy advisor to ronald reagan on russian relations russia scholar or dug in whether lessons of the past can help man ties between washington and moscow today suzanne while we're all waiting to see what happens in america i so want to ask you a little bit of about what's going on right now because people over here they're really wondering why has russia today become a scapegoat for everything bad that happens in america i mean i don't know if you're big on twitter or instagram but there is even ashfaq russians did it i mean that's kind of it's now become a joke as a cartoon i don't know if you've seen that it's very funny and one is actually too

polite to even say of that i will say there's a picture of two dogs and the dog says to one of the old guess what the russians pooped in the hall you say blaming blaming even sas on the russians it was all over the place there are all kinds of jokes about that people realize you know the stupid that this is excessive i happen to agree with you i think it's very dangerous i have for that as much as i could because i had the same feeling that you couldn't say it is saying that it was like with garcia's you couldn't say anything well i decided to figure out how to say it and that's why i named those things a few things you may not have read in the newspapers i didn't say bad things about the newspapers. all kinds of things that i saw here that's. they were very

very interested realize we don't get very much news about you and i mean personal lives you know it seems that you take for granted but you know what i also know is that during the cold war the americans systematically criticized us so the uni but if you look at right now personal attacks on russian president are actually prevalent as terrible why do you think that american russian ration is actually soured down to a point of personal animosity. i think it's disgraceful and many agree with me i don't know you have to admit that probably there are some enemies there i don't know they're not exactly transparent they have done it there has never happened in our history that i know that there's been a direct so much personally i have a funny i said really if mr putin actually did all the things they say he did he

wouldn't have time to rule at all and it gets to be you know absolutely absurd to have i mean all the things that are written but it's not right i feel it is not correct to do that. so i happen to have the great pleasure of knowing this to put it a little bit after all i was a great friend as a subset and i was in petersburg which is my city and it's not that big so if you meet people you know. well i was once introduced on a boston radio program as being the only woman in the world who had been kissed by ronald reagan and let me put it. i had to do it i had to say but it was very it was in church and that's really only because of the old days in in petersburg so personally i always wish him well i know how hard. you know how hard

a job it is not ok in foreign policy. how much responsibility if the policy so i always watched with. equal opportunity you always put emphasis on personal relationship get and trump wants to fix just that actually can person to person contact between leaders actually turn around the whole relationship i mean would that you know reagan did it. and he wanted very much to do it and he bleeped he believes believes in personal relations that's matter of record he always thought that if people could speak face to face you could go much further than any other way and he put that into practice i'm sure you know that none of his advisors perhaps except perhaps mr

schultz wanted him to meet at all with mr got myself they didn't want it you know why they said he wasn't up to it reagan he was not up to it will reagan simply said i wanted to and i will and he was supposed to very strongly by his wife. who was all for it so they did it against i mean when i came in so that i was the only woman there were no women it was all absolutely men a male administration and they didn't want he had many of his counsellors were absolutely against him meeting of it was his determination and you know what else he said he said then we are not going to discuss a.b.m.'s and all those initials he said we're going to discuss basic the absolutely basic things like why

are they afraid of us why are we afraid of them and that's what we're going to talk about that was geneva. then if we follow that logic we had put in and bush they had good relations bombing maybe a two car along a bomb might put in not so much but if the relations between great powers yes band on personal relationship between the leaders doesn't that mean that the minute one of the leaders is replaced then everything any understanding that has been there between them goes off track will you think it's also about roads i mean they get so well along with obama or hillary she might have been she might have been i don't think so well look where we're at right now i mean people call this the new cold war era just because they don't get along so well you're not going to get very far with me on that because i don't think it is and i do believe in the american public

and i don't believe in that little group in washington or in the media who have decided to mount an attack on mr trump i don't know mr trump i don't know what he's going to do. you know. but i am willing to give him a little time he lived get elected i didn't have. to vote for either mr trump or ms clinton because i knew them and i i just couldn't i could not do it but i'll tell you one of the things that's happening is the american people have woken up a lot and they were pretty much going along you know thinking only of themselves if you want and they and their own you know our own problems but now they realize that they haven't paid enough attention to the actually our own government and now there is a great deal more interests in grassroots local with this i think very important everybody

was kind of asleep you know thinking it was all going to go on the same old way and then suddenly it isn't so now everybody is paying a lot of attention. want to talk to a bit about nato. so it happened with nato expansion into streaming europe which irritates moscow to this day. one mr ation was ready to leave eastern europe true but with bill clinton and bush jr they decided to expand now all of this all this time moscow was protesting against is they were very firm about their position in the ninety's and two thousand two thousand and ten until this day why was that and still is ignored well i have just said this piece that i gave at the baltic forum i have said number one coexistence can never be brought about by force number one and i personally think that putting so the people's

borders is not the way to start a constructive conversation most particularly with russia i think sometimes. it would help just simply look at the at the map and you might understand better. after all. is i was very lucky to have on a. particularly threatening on our borders that we have canada and we have mexico and on the other two sides we have fish we have two big ponds with fish and that's it so having worries about mortars is not something that we have been very fortunate about that but other people do have worries they do have they do remember their history and of course russia. does remember its history

not only the recent history but before history the big mistake of the western policy was that we were making the west was making policy about a country that no longer exists so american exceptionalism an exceptional incident have let interventions and spread of liberal values but on the other hand isolationism like trumps america come first idea what should one do you think will prevail well i think the i can't tell you who's going to prevail i think i personally think that there is a great mood for thinking about america right now you know we have a lot of problems so i think there may be a move away from. interfering all over the place or you know the external policy i think americans are ready. to think about themselves if they think that's

isolationism i think in that respect it will be more thinking about itself now. worrying about every other country in the world. we can never forget russia but that something else but i really do i think perhaps you're right that there may be more pulling in. and finally i just want to know because u.s. and russia mainly right now disagree and foreign policy on syria doesn't trunk confrontation path towards iran do you think that russia and us can manage to cooperate selectively do you think they can agree to disagree i hope so i hope so why not after all nobody agrees with everything else s. and i don't really believe that any country is exceptional and absolutely i

think every country has something to contribute so we may not agree but at least we can respect each other's feelings and not only feelings history and point of view may not be the same as ours thank you so much for this wonderful interview susan massey advice or to president ronald reagan and we thank. you know for change to record this interview in its executive branch thank you thank you so. horn dog may not only be tasty but also. dead to the ship between kids

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