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hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle spiraled downward this applies to both russia u.s. relations and the ongoing advance on the korean peninsula have we passed the point of no return. cross talking real news i'm joined by my guest here in moscow mark silva older he's an international affairs and security a most we also have bitter or levity he is a political analyst as well as a leading expert at the center for actual politics and we have alex chris afore he was the director and writer for the duran dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk

rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate mark let me go to you first here i guess this is the drama of tit for tat in u.s. russia relations why. close this consulate why search and where is this all where to come from and what is it going to lead to and what does the u.s. hope to accomplish ok well i mean we have to see where this all began back in december with obama's parthian shot in an attempt to sabotage the incoming. administration's campaign policy of detente with russia they kicked thirty five russian diplomats out of the country seized two russian diplomatic properties in the u.s. and russia replied out of dubious legal foundation really doing. i mean there's all kinds of of questions of about its legality under the vienna convention so even more so now so russia responded by reducing the numbers of u.s.

diplomats in russia down to the same equal level of russian diplomats and also seizing two properties so that's not good enough for the us to for that we have to go to again and now if this is the u.s. . seizing our consulate and two annexes in new york and washington again and under dubious legal conditions here dubiously conditions but even more than that there initially out of moscow there was there was chatter that russia isn't going to reply because you know the u.s. used that they're doing this for parity so an equal number of consulates but then the u.s. made this regis again legal violation of having their security services quite openly go raid the embassies and make a big deal of search and they were under thirty six hours notice when the. american diplomats and their families were given essentially a month to leave after the first retaliation big picture. what does the u.s.

get out of this because russia will retaliate it's a quid pro quo they will be telling you. look we are in the beginning stages when you called war and if we look back to the cold war to say you know the cold war was no worse from the time of the russian civil war to world war two and then the second cold war started in one thousand forty five with two women settling the soviet union with nuclear weapons and from then on the churchill speech and so forth until one thousand eight hundred nine to be we have to say that we are in the beginning stages of a new cold war in the united states seeks to get the lesions the diplomatic relations with russia to a lower stage so the cold war years. we didn't have four consulates on american soil the americans didn't have a dream we got three so cold war. cold war two point zero meaning you know it was

more ending in one thousand nine hundred and i don't recall this ever happening during when it was soviet consulates i don't think that ever happened if you were where they were forced out they were searched i don't know and i don't want a one time it's the last time it happened was in one thousand nine hundred eighty one when the war started in the summer of one thousand forty one between germany a tech to the soviet union ok so the soviet embassy was evacuated and right even though it still care diplomatic building still had the plot to community at that you know the it was raided by the german security services this was the last time i put something like that to the kid that was my question and i don't like this right now this happens when there is an impending state of war given the president of victory just gave us it's embarrassing because the united states is violating the vienna conventions and they're breaking the law diplomatically in diplomatic circles with the united states is doing by going in there and seizing

property and searching it and having the f.b.i. crawl through air conditioned ducks and looking around for stuff is going to our viewers here that alex is talking about article twenty two. vienna convention on diplomatic relations so i mean likely that it's embarrassing for the united states to exhibit behavior like this but it also shows i think that trump is out of the equation when it comes to russia although russia collusion fake news all the posturing against russia all positioning trumpets russia agent goes to show that now when it comes to anything related with the u.s. and russia relations trump is a no show he's at the equations at the generals and the wall street bankers the military industrial complex is running the show and we see where this is leading to it's leading to like victor says another cold war and it's leading very quickly what is what is the west get out of this month i mean it looks like a big meaty. show i mean they could actually find some compromising evidence this is ridiculous this is a mockery it's a show first we have to understand that this is primarily aimed at their own

domestic audience this is congress in the deep state because i don't agree that this is not coming from at least the person of trump i don't know if there's anyone left in his administration that isn't compromised at this point no one anywhere kelly maddow masters the generals are running it but they want the state wants to and the congress wants to worsen relations with russia this is what this entire matter to me because this bill because russia gate is fizzling it it's. happening now because it's fizzling and they want to keep this story give a shit like this they have to keep it going there was an article in the new york times this week purporting evidence of russian hack in hacking growing and it was referring to a small local problem in a in a provincial north carolina carolina town durham where there was local registration problems and third paragraph down in the end the article they admit there's no

evidence no evidence of a digital set of those of any kind happened much less russia was involved but the headline is a super injunction had it was mentioned russia and shiver went down my spine we we don't know that it was the russians but we don't know that it wasn't the russians either that this is the logic this is the fake new we couldn't resist the golden boy you don't have any evidence that was marx it was me i was in durham i had. you couldn't vote in there or because of me i picture you know. russia is going to respond what will russia do because this is you know for our viewers to understand this is called quid pro quo this is part of the diplomatic dance one party does something it's expected the next one so this is what they want they want russia to react will russia overreact under-react would be measured because it's the us that is initiating all. yes look this was an egregious violation of the vienna convention one cannot be forgotten involve one that cannot be forgiven so russia

will react in a measured way but at the same time in a very tough way being tough is measured at this point when you consider what the united states government has been doing since december twenty ninth when it took out those two two diplomatic properties by the way last year when obama did it they even took took took it completely it took property rights for it we could be legal we don't go by the rush we have the complete way we know of international agreements compete where we should be in a coalition russia is likely to respond by closing at least one of the consulates. in russia one of the u.s. consulates especially considering that since a few days ago no american consulates in russia and they wouldn't mind there are three now in st petersburg in your book in the in the euros in the far east let us talk none of them will any longer serious russian citizens who would like to get visas so they offer no sure of this for russian citizens who are trying to come to

the us as tourists students or as anyone else at this point so russia is very likely to respond in a tough way to closed by closing down one of the consulates if you see the diplomatic language to be coming out of the ministry of foreign affairs the foreign ministry is demanding the immediate return of the consulate in san francisco it's using a very very tough limit of course that's not going to watch it's not going to happen soon leading to the next step and of course the americans are not nothing to stop here either they are already people airing their next steps and they go on their own site you know every single one of this in reference to the story here is mentioned international law part of my duties as host of this program is i have to look at you know and. c.n.n. fox you know the whole works here it's never brought up. once about the legality of

it you know i brought in a copy of article twenty two there are other articles part of this protocol about protecting diplomatic missions here but some from western never mentioning western media and international law is never mentioned when it comes to the united states and what they're doing then when it comes to the media and whether you call imus n.b.c. or fox news so you have a lot on the left and one on the right they'll never mention the vienna convention never mention that obama seize property i'll never mention any of these things what they do mention for the american audience as they're mesmerized by statues and identity politics and all these other things they'll say oh barack obama expelled thirty five diplomats and russia expelled seven hundred so look at how good we are yet i can tell you are the numbers of our sort of the numbers are disproportionate in america of course has taken the high ground so that's what they'll present but never present the whole picture of our present potential well in the present as victor said the seizure of property ends and i would say the royal law here losing some of these for whatever they ever paid any attention the international law they

didn't even play any attention to the charter of the united nations the thing we're going to tell you i'm going to mention international little is one day three to use whatever seriously i'm going to take and that's when the market international exactly what does it say about trams foreign policy his ability to forment that he has no ability he is in effect a hostage in the white house particularly when it comes to foreign policy and foreign policy is is dictated by this cobol of generals who he didn't. pull in and go to rallies and you know he can say inflammatory things on twitter and then they will you know do everything possible to cover up and say no no no don't worry don't pay any attention to what trump says you know he's not really the president that you know it is really you know i'll finish up this segment here with all of you and i are going to you know that means the russian side doesn't know who. dealing with in washington oh i think you know by doing it well you know what vectors of power right there you know i think it's very dangerous here we always have to have

a partner even if you have a crisis here all right gentlemen what we're going on time after a short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news. boss alone the dubrovnik in venice are all fixed travel destinations so it must be nice to live there or is it the. crowds of tourists disrupts the city's economic and social life to live for us on the celestial such as the. sun not as. soon as we know it's my money. while the cities try. to

collapse. of. the will probably. come to. me in the bushes up little on sobs and the supposed to me about. my son. is a tourist phobia will fail. oh they are already right. let's look at that.

welcome back to cross up where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok let me go to victor now and you know the north korea story is like a bad flu that just won't go away here but that is definitely their strategy their strategy is to keep themselves in the news and to keep everyone reacting to him and you know what who their favorite viewer of this their show is it's donald trump they're playing him like a fiddle picture and you're exactly correct and we see the american side since the down time has become president exactly mirroring what north korea has been doing so even language boys even linguistically is sort of the american kim you know way and

there is only one way to solve two years of to normalize the. relations in the korean peninsula between north and south and that's when you go she who actually has introduced a program over a new settlement russia russia and china. roadmap and the united states of course has not accepted that roadmap does not want to negotiate with north korea so in the current situations there are two different paths that can be taken by the time but me as to if it keeps on so i think north korea which he has been doing throughout his his term in office so far and doing nothing to nothing military bring back yes and nothing to back it up nothing militarily than the united states more and more with each with each week. starts to look like a paper tiger which negatively effect its reputation internationally other countries will know what it will find refutation of the president of the united

states but i think he's being played in a deep seated claim that if he does strike militarily then it's. best if he with multiple american casualties because there are thousands of american troops in south korea you know worse amounts of casualties among south koreans because seoul is right on the border with north korea twenty two million that's congo under neither situation is good in the stump it's his administration that took us to that you know when steve benen left the white house he did that interview he said there there is no solution on the table here that is being presented i mean with the you know if when the last in the security council the last sanction that was passed unanimously against north korea i watched the russian reaction i watched the chinese one and everybody else and they're just hot air with the russians and the chinese actually had a road map and victor is right but trump says the time for talking is over again

playing into this narrative to fail and that's what they want to everybody around him the deep state the generals and of course north korea and the chinese and the russians are standing back and watching this going into a quagmire when the only thing the north koreans really want is direct talks you know two points on that the russia story the north korea story are very similar when you look at it because they're both designed to deal with your demise trump you each in its own way and so trump is falling for the bait all the time and so just like he's been dealing with russia and he's been branded this this russian spy or this russian cell surely you can make sure you candidate he's kind of looking like the american version of came in in this other scenario and he keeps on. keeping these tweets this rhetoric which makes no real sense it's not a solution everyone knows there's a. simple solution very simple solution which china and russia and anyone in the know understand what it is it's the united states and south korea to stop the

military drills priest priests freezer freeze in north korea will also freeze any nuclear development everyone knows is the simple solution no one's going to take it and no one discusses it no you know that except for all this is that over here i'm so out of here i said do you see c.n.n. that solution will present to you what you're hearing ridiculous bombastic rhetoric coming out of both washington and pyongyang the only adults in the room are russia and china all the north korea or north korea is a very un reasonable regime that has very reasonable demands which they are incapable of articulating in a reasonable manner so russia and china are left to do it for them they want a permanent peace treaty with the united states the u.s. has never had a permanent peace treaty since the end of the korean war when they were quite proud of having flattening north korea so there was no building over one floor standing in the entire nine hundred fifty fifty degree that all they've had since is an armistice say a temporary halt in war and they want these provocative military drills to stop the

u.s. has no intention of stopping the these things but this is the reality there is now a nine nuclear power in the world they have a strategic deterrent the u.s. has some six thousand eight hundred nuclear weapons north korea has somewhere between twenty and my own mark you. were a what was your title in the military i was a nuclear engineering more and more nuclear reactor and more as you you're the expert on this one here. a few months ago launching what were called i.c.b.m. i didn't see any evidence that it was really that it was just these were me medium range missiles with a lot of extra fuel now speed up to the last few days now they have a hydrogen bomb that they can deliberate it's not possible. there are varying estimates of how far along they are both north korea and the united states' deep state have an interest of inflating north koreans think north korea is trying to get a strategic deterrent they are trying to get

a strategic deterrent because of u.s. actions if there is anything that libya and syria and iraq have taught the north korean government it's a lesson taught by u.s. regime changes if you give up or if you don't have nuclear weapons you are a potential victim of the united states you know you know all through this last few months here is the the mainstream media in washington and washington elites have been looking at china is really the solution to all this the problem is and again it's almost never mentioned in the mainstream media is that china doesn't want to see a chaotic broken down failed state in north korea particularly if their nuclear weapons there they're the ones who had brought peace to the greatest brunt of this thing were to fall apart here the status quo is better than what you don't know in the end what we don't know and destroyed north korea by the united states by south korea huge refugee problem. kinds of military

technology transfers under the under the radar here there's a whole there there is the nightmare scenario which. it will not let the united states invade or occupy you know on except they will not let it happen they did not let the step in the last time around nine hundred fifty s. . we all know how many changes took center of north korea and it was probably the one of them some of the most humiliating pages in u.s. military history i don't know because i can't count that high. how do you believe. the united states knows that and that's why and knows that too and that's why he is acting that way because he knows he has got to jump seeing making threats and. it's he though and the more that spout goes on the lore the american reputation in the world goes down and so this is a no win win situation for for the united states and that's the win win situation

for him it's amazing and can also say that the more trump makes these threats the more he turns away his base that voted for him so with the departure of bad in him with the departure of that core group of people that got him elected into office they don't want the us being an interventionist state anymore they want to make america great again they want trump to keep his word to focus on the u.s. so the more he focuses outside of america the more his core base is turning away from him and bad and has been very open and honest in saying that if you go into these interventionist ventures and fantasies your base is guarded by it my whole group of people is going to turn against you he's been very honest about this so you know what he does again it seems to me that this is a perfect storm for failure for trump here because we all know people don't know about this it's been going on for so long right now we've all of us know the basics in ariel here but see it seems to me that trump doesn't or he's intentionally being led down. a dangerous path because the u.s.

military knows. military options are quite limited here they are limited and this is because while pursuing a strategic deterrent against the united states north korea already has a fairly large conventional the time of the d.m.z. is the most heavily militarized zone in the world right now period hands down and north korea has a gargantuan amount of artillery right on the other side of the d.m.z. the south korean capital is very close to the d.m.z. if the u.s. were to attempt a cruise missile strikes a bomber strikes in north korea targeting nuclear missile facilities north korea could very well respond. with an artillery barrage which would level the population of seoul and all those deaths would would would be on the u.s. hands right because it is the result the rest see the complete destruction of the north korea north korea and this point and it could very seriously escalate in the

world war three does china and russia flew nuclear bombers over the korean peninsula just the other week now i don't know i didn't know who observed them they did it with what i saw in the region is very important to everyone that they were doing it right now was that a warning against north korea was that a warning against the united states a little of both calm down the kids the adults want you to stop throwing things that are in the middle of this the top administration says it's considering getting out of south korea you know that stacey today that came in. just to really u.s. and south korea yes south korea has got to be i mean they have a reasonable president right now moon and he has got to be looking at trump who is pushing him to war and stabbing him in the back economically after same time the last. you know this to happen in south east south korea and japan they do not need to sort it all goes according to those of us so the u.s.

wants to fight north korea till the last july's of crime got the logic of it all goes back to what you said earlier is who are we dealing with everything with trouble are we dealing with madness are we dealing with kelly are we dealing with these wall street goldman sachs bankers no one really knows who's trying this foreign policy decision just like with this russian policy north korea policy is still a lose lose for donald trump. he has made it a big you know position he himself in a very masculine way and even putin's wording in the text he wrote before he went to the bric summit he addressed north korean issue and he very early clearly tried to play up to trump's ego. in it he referred to the united states as the stronger and more intelligent between it and north korea needs to make the first step towards a reasonable so dial asking donald trump to be the adult in the room yeah you know

i know it's a little crazy what. you were told it certainly appealed to his ego were brought out of time for this segment of the program many thanks to my guests here in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here on t.c.m. next time and remember top rules.

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to the list get silly me one means i love just i know be deep but let me share this name tokyo find it is going to keep going. like. this is what it was because did a piece of dancing quite a cultural shift from the premise. here's what people have been saying about rejecting the night with the sixties full on awesome well the only show i go out of my way to launch a lot of the really packs upon how to please. yeah.

apparently better than. to see. the world bank. washington says diplomatic solutions to the crisis on the careen have been exhausted dismisses russia and china suggestion as insulting and. breaking the presence of syria's celebrate on the streets his forces move in to liberate the city has been besieged by islamic state for three years and tens of thousands of mostly. the station countries the minority community struggles against .