washington calls for the strongest possible measures against north korea over its latest nuclear test as russia and china seek a deescalation also in the headlines. celebrations in syria as government forces make a final push to liberate the city. from islamic state. and tens of thousands of people. a brutal military crackdown on the muslim minority . from me for now nikki everyone will be live from him. in around an

hour's time stay with us. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle spiraled downward this applies to both russia u.s. relations and the ongoing events on the korean peninsula have we passed the point of no return. cross talking real news i'm joined by my guest here in moscow mark slow boulder he's an international affairs and security a most we also have bitter or levity he is a political analyst as well as

a leading expert at the center for actual politics and we have alex chris afore he was the director and writer for the duran dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate mark let me go to you first here i guess this is the drama of tit for tat in u.s. russia relations why. close this consulate why search and where is this all where to come from and what is it going to lead to and what does the u.s. hope to accomplish ok well i mean we have to see where this all began back in december with obama's parthian shot in an attempt to sabotage the incoming. administration's campaign policy of detente with russia they kicked thirty five russian diplomats out of the country seized two russian diplomatic properties in the u.s. and russia replied out of dubious legal foundation i mean there's all kinds of of questions of about its legality under the vienna convention so even more so now

so russia responded by reducing the numbers. of u.s. diplomats in russia down to the same equal level of russian diplomats and also seizing two properties so that's not good enough for the us to for that we have to go to again and now if this is the u.s. . seizing our consulate and two annexes in new york and washington again and under dubious legal conditions or dubiously conditions but even more than that their initial layout of moscow there was there was chatter that russia isn't going to reply because you know the u.s. used that they're doing this for parity so an equal number of consulates but then the u.s. made this regis again a legal violation of having their security services quite openly go raid the embassies and make a big deal of searching they were under thirty six hours notice when the. american

diplomats and their families were given essentially a month to leave after the first retaliation big picture of. what does the u.s. get out of this because russia will retaliate it's a quid pro quo they will tell you where it is going to look we are in the beginning stages when you call the war and if we look back to the cold war two or so you know the cold war was no worse from the time of the russian civil war to world war two and then the second cold war started in one thousand forty five with two women threatening the soviet union with nuclear weapons and from then on the churchill speech and so forth until one thousand eight hundred nine to d. we have to see that we are in the beginning stages of a new cold war in the united states seeks to get the lesions the diplomatic relations with russia to a lower stage so the cold war years we didn't have for consulates or the american

soil the americans didn't have but really got three so-called war. cold war two point zero meaning out of the second world. or ending in one thousand nine hundred and i don't recall this ever happening during when it was soviet consulates i don't think that ever happened in that you were where they were forced out they were searched i don't know and i don't want a one time the last time it happened was in one thousand nine hundred eighty one when the war started in the summer of one thousand forty one between germany a tech to the soviet union ok so the soviet embassy was evacuated and right even though it still can't deploy much of their building still had the plot to community . you know the it was raided by the german security services this was the last time i put something like that to the ok that was my question and i don't like this right now this happens when there is an impending state of war given the president of victor just gave us it's embarrassing because the united states is violating the vienna conventions and they're breaking the laws

diplomatically in diplomatic circles with the united states is doing by going in there and seizing property and searching it and having the f.b.i. crawl through air conditioned ducks and looking around for stuff is going to our viewers here that alex is talking about article twenty two. vienna convention on diplomatic relations so i mean likely that it's embarrassing for the united states to exhibit behavior like this but it also shows i think that trump is out of the equation when it comes to russia although russia collusion fake news all the posturing against russia all positioning trumpets russia agent goes to show that now when it comes to anything related with the u.s. and russia relations trump is a no show he's at the equations at the generals and the wall street bankers the military industrial complex is running the show and we see where this is leading to it's leading to like victor says another cold war and it's leading very quickly what is what is the west get out of this month i mean it looks like a big media show i mean they could actually find some compromising evidence this is

ridiculous this is wish this is a mockery to show ok first we have to understand this is primary. really aimed at their own domestic audience this is congress in the deep state because i don't agree that this is not coming from at least the person of trump i don't know if there's anyone left in his administration that isn't compromised at this point no one anywhere kelly maddow masters the generals are running it but they want the deep state wants to and the congress wants to worsen relations with russia this is what this entire matter to me because this bill because russia gate is fizzling it it's. happening now because it's fizzling and they want to keep this story give a shit like this they have to keep it going there was an article in the new york times this week purporting evidence of russian hack in hacking growing and it was referring to a small local problem in a provincial north carolina carolina town durham where there was local registration

problems and third paragraph down in the end the article they admit there's no evidence no evidence of a digital seven times of any kind happened much less russia was involved but the headline is a super injunction had it was mentioned russia and shiver went down my spine we don't know that it was the russians but we don't know that it wasn't the russians either that this is the logic this is the fake new we couldn't resist the older boy you don't have any evidence that was mark's it was me i was in durham i had. you couldn't vote in there or because of me i picture you know. russia is going to respond what will russia do because this is you know for our viewers to understand this is called quid pro quo this is part of the diplomatic dance one party does something it's expected the next one so this is what they want they want russia to react will russia over react under react would be measured because it's the u.s. that is initiating all of this look this was an egregious violation of the vienna

convention one cannot be forgotten and the one that cannot be forgiven so russia. well react in a measured way but at the same time in a very tough way being tough is measured at this point when you consider what the united states government has been doing since december twenty ninth when it took out those two two diplomatic properties by the way last year when obama did it they even took took took it completely it took property rights for it. it was legal illegal we don't know why the rush we have the complete way of international agreements compete where we should be in a coalition russia is likely to respond by closing at least one of the consulates. in russia one of the u.s. consulates especially considering that since a few days ago no american consulates in russia and they wouldn't mind there are three now in st petersburg in your book in the in the euros in the far east let us talk none of them will any longer syria russian citizens who would like to get

visas so they offer no sure of this for russian citizens who are trying to come to the us as tourists students or as anyone else at this point so russia is very likely to respond in a tough way to close the closing down of one of the consulates if you see the diplomatic language today coming out of the ministry of foreign affairs the foreign ministry is demanding the immediate return of the consulate in san francisco it's using a very very tough limited course that's not going to watch it's not going to happen soon leading to the next step and of course the americans are not nothing to stop here either they are already preparing their next steps and they go on their own site you know every single one of this in reference to this story here is mentioning international law part of my duties as host of this program is i have to look at you know mr b.c.c. and in part you know the whole works here it's never brought up the once about the

legality of it you know i brought in a copy. article twenty two there are other articles part of this protocol about protecting diplomatic missions for example western never mentioned in western media international law is never mentioned when it comes to the united states and what they're doing then when it comes to the media and whether you call imus n.b.c. or fox news so you have a lot on the left and one on the right they'll never mention the vienna conventions and never mention that obama seize property they'll never mention any of these things what they do mention for the american audience as they're mesmerized by statues and identity politics and all these other things they'll say oh barack obama expelled thirty five diplomats and russia expelled seven hundred so look at how good we are. going to are the numbers are sort of the numbers are disproportionate and america of course is taking the high ground so that's what they'll present but never present the whole picture of our present. and the present as victor said the seizure of property and and i would say the royal law here

losing some of these what have they ever paid any attention the international law they didn't even play any attention to the charter of the united nations the thing we're going to do i'm going to mention international little is one of the three to use whatever seriously i'm going to take and that's when the market international. what does it say about tribes foreign policy his ability to form it that he has no ability he is in effect a hostage in the white house particularly when it comes to foreign policy and foreign policy is is dictated by this cobol of generals who he didn't. pull in and go to rallies and you know he can say inflammatory things on twitter and then they will you know do everything possible to cover up and say no no no don't worry don't pay any attention to what trump says you know he's not really the president that you know it is really you know i'll finish up this segment here with all of you and i are going to you know that means the russian side doesn't know who it's dealing with in washington or i think you know i don't think well you know what back there

is a power right there you know i think it's very dangerous here we always have to have a partner even if you have a crisis here. all right gentlemen when we're going on time after a short break we'll continue our discussion on some real moves. to buy gold gold gold by gold there's always people buying gold and the professional marketeers understand this and when the gold price goes to a certain level they bang it down with short sales they're selling the gold naked or they're just selling it they're just doing short sales are not losing money they're just selling the gold short and then when it gets down to a certain level they can cover those shorts at a profit that's our short sell works you're buying back at a lower price for

a profit and that's the problem with gold it's a market that's completely beholden to the cartel. here's what people have been saying about rejected in the us is it actually just pull along. the only show i go out of my way to launch you know what it is that really packs a punch oh yeah it is the john oliver of party america is doing the same we are apparently better than. the c. people you've never heard of love redacted tonight not the president of the world bank so a. seriously send us an e-mail. welcome back to crossfire we're all things considered i'm peter remind you we're discussing some real news.

ok let me go to victor now and you know the north korea story is like a bad flu they just want. go away here but that is definitely their strategy their strategy is to keep themselves in the news and to keep everyone reacting to him and you know what who their favorite viewer of the their show is it's donald trump they're playing him like a fiddle picture and you're exactly correct and we see the american side since the down time has become president it's oakley marrying what north korea has been doing so even language choice even linguistically is sort of the american kim you know way and there is only one way to solve to resolve to normalize the. relations in the korean peninsula between north and so and that's when you go she has the option of here's introduced a program over and you can say that settlement russia china russia and china has road map and the united states of course has not accepted that road map does not

want to negotiate with north korea so in the korean situations there are two different paths that can be taken by the top administration if they keep so on so i think north korea which he has been doing throughout his his term in office so far and doing nothing to nothing military bring back yes and nothing to back it up nothing militarily that the united states more and more with each day with each week starts to look like a paper tiger which negatively effect its reputation internationally other countries will know what i don't want to go through refutation of the president of the united states who i think he's being played and a deep seated claim that if he if he does strike militarily then it's. best if he with multiple american casualties because there are thousands of american troops in south korea you know with some ounce of casualties among south koreans because seoul is right on the border with north korea twenty two million in that congo

armor but neither solution is good in the stump it's his administration that took us to that. and you know when steve benen left the white house and he did that interview he said there there is no solution on the table here that is being presented i mean with the you know if when the last in the security council the last sanction that was passed unanimously against north korea i watched the russian reaction i watched the chinese one and everybody else and they're just hot air with the russians and the chinese actually had a roadmap in victor's right but trump says the time for talking is over again playing into this narrative to fail and that's what they want to everybody around him the deep state the generals and of course north korea and the chinese and the russians are standing back and watching this going into a quagmire when the only thing the north koreans really want is direct talks you know two points on that the russia story the north korea story are very similar

when you look at it because they're both designed to deal or to demise trump you each in its own way and so trump is falling for the bait all the time and so just like he's been dealing with russia and he's been branded this this russian spy or this russian century you can candidate he's kind of looking like the american version of came in in this other scenario and he keeps on. keeping these tweets this rhetoric which makes no real sense it's not a solution everyone knows there's a real simple solution very simple solution which china and russia and anyone in the know understand what it is it's the united states and south korea to stop the military drills freeze freeze freezer freeze in north korea will also freeze any nuclear development everyone knows is the simple solution no one's going to take it and no one discusses it no you know that except for all this is that over here on. c.n.n. that solution occurs and you're hearing ridiculous bombastic rhetoric coming out of both washington and pyongyang the only adults in the room or russia and china all

the north korea or north korea is a very reasonable regime that has. very reasonable demands which they are incapable of articulating in a reasonable manner so russia and china are left to do it for them they want a permanent peace treaty with the united states the us has never had a permanent peace treaty since the end of the korean war when they were quite proud of having flattening north korea so there was no building over one floor standing in the entire nine hundred fifty fifty degree that all they've had since is an armistice say a temporary halt in war and they want these provocative military drills to stop the us has no intention of stopping the these things but this is the reality there is now a ninth nuclear power in the world they have a strategic deterrent the us some six thousand eight hundred nuclear weapons north korea has somewhere between twenty and my own mark you. were a what was your title in the military i was in the clear engineering more and more nuclear reactor and

more as you are the expert on this one here. a few months ago launching what were called i.c.b.m. i didn't see any evidence that it was really that it was just these were me medium range missiles with a lot of extra fuel now speed up to the last few days now they have a hydrogen bomb that they can deliberate it's not possible. there are varying estimates of how far along they are both north korea and the united states deep state have an interest of inflating north koreans think north korea is trying to get a strategic deterrent they are trying to get a strategic deterrent because of u.s. actions if there's anything that libya and syria and iraq have taught the north korean government it's a lesson taught by u.s. regime changes if you give up or if you don't have nuclear weapons you are a potential victim of the united states you know you know all through this the last few months here is the mainstream media in washington and washington elites have

been looking at china is really the solution to all this the. the problem is that again it's almost never mentioned in the mainstream media is that the chinese doesn't want to see a chaotic broken down failed state in north korea particularly if they're nuclear weapons they're they're the ones who had brought peace to the greatest brunt of this thing were to fall apart here the status quo is better than what you don't know in the end what we don't know and destroyed north korea by the united states by south korea huge refugee problem you could build your way up to you could have all kinds of military technology transfers under the under the radar here there's a whole there's the nightmare scenario here and there where it is so that it will not let the united states invade or occupy north korea on except yes they will not let it happen they did not let this happen in the last time around nine hundred fifty s. . we all know how many chinese two percent of north korea and it was probably the

one of them some of the most humiliating pages in u.s. military history i don't know because i can't count that high. and the united states knows that and that's what keil knows that too and that's why he's acting that way because he knows he has got to jump seeing making threats and outs he and the more that spout goes on the floor the american reputation in the world goes down and so this is a no win win situation for for the united states and its the win win situation for kim it's amazing it can also say that the more trouble makes these threats the more he turns away his base that voted for him so with the departure of the bad in with the departure of that core group of people that got him elected into office they don't want the us being an interventionist state anymore they want to make america great again they want trump to keep his word to focus on the us so the more he focuses outside of america mark his core base is turning away from him and bad and

has been very open and honest in saying that if you go into these and. ventures and fantasies guarded by my whole group of people is going to turn against you he's been very honest about this so you know when i get this again it seems to me that this is a perfect storm for failure for trump here because we all know people don't know about this it's been going on for so long right now we've all of us know the basics and narrow here but see it seems to me that trump doesn't or he's intentionally being led down. a dangerous path because the us military knows the military options are quite limited here they are limited and this is because while pursuing a strategic deterrent against the united states north korea already has a fairly large conventional the time the d.m.z. is the most heavily militarized zone in the world right now period hands down and

north korea has a gargantuan amount of artillery right on the other side of the d.m.z. the south korean capital is very close to the d.m.z. if the us were to attempt a cruise missile strikes a bomber strikes in north korea targeting nuclear missile facilities north korea could very well respond with an artillery barrage which would level the population of seoul and all those deaths would would would be on the u.s. hands right because it is the result you have seen the complete destruction of the north korea north korea and this point and it could very seriously escalate in the world war three does china and russia flew nuclear bombers over the korean peninsula just the other week now i don't know i didn't know who observed them they did it with ice in the region is very important to everyone that they were doing it right now was that a warning against north korea was that a warning against the united states a little of both calm down the kids the adults want you to stop throwing things in

the middle of this the top administration says it's going to. getting out of south korea united states c.t. they came in yesterday for you just to really u.s. and south korea yes south korea has got to be i mean they have a very reasonable president right now moon and he has got to be looking at trump who is pushing him to war and stabbing him in the back economically at the same time that last look like any of this to happen in south east south korea and japan they do not need to sort it all because in those or so the u.s. wants to fight north korea until a lot. of crime got to watch and it all goes back to what you said earlier is who are we dealing with everything with trouble are we dealing with madness are we dealing with kelly are we dealing with these wall street goldman sachs bankers no one really knows who's trying this foreign policy decision just like with this russian policy north korea policy is still a lose lose for donald trump. he has made it

a big you know position he himself in a very masculine way right and even putin's wording in the text he wrote before he went to the brick summit he addressed north korean issue and he very early clearly tried to play up to trump's ego in it he referred to the united states as the stronger and more intelligent between it and north korea needs to make the first step towards a reasonable dial asking donald trump to be the adult in the room yeah you know i know it's a little crazy what. you were told and he certainly you appealed to his ego would run out of time for this segment of the program many thanks to my guests here in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember top rules.

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