yes. hello i'm tom hartman at washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture elizabeth warren is officially on board with bernie sanders his plan for single payer health care is the rest of the democratic party about to join or well as dave mccall and steve and

sam sachs in just a moment and what can a legal thriller teach us about the power of the american weapons industry we'll find out what happened tonio joins us to talk about his new novel later on in the program. after tuesday's shocking debt ceiling deal with the democrats as dollars from finisher of the republican party let's ask tonight's big picture politics panel. with me for that i had the big picture panel are dave mccall national g.o.p. strategist and sam sex writer and co-founder of the district sentinel news co-op thank you both for being here with us at six hundred have you guys so it has been more than twenty four hours but washington pundits are still puzzling over donald trump's deal with democrats to extend the debt ceiling for just three months and hand out billions in hurricane aid all in one fell swoop this deal gave democrats

literally everything they wanted and it passed the senate earlier this afternoon reflecting on the deal today at the white house the president made it sound like it was the beginning of a fruitful working relationship because north korea looked at the hurricanes you look at what's going on in the middle east and i said frankly it's time that we walk out and shake hands and have a deal and they agreed and i will tell you it was there was a lot of spirit in that room a lot of good spirit arrayed when it comes down to a trump has no ideological center other than himself and his neediness will you now start saying screw you to republicans and start making deals with democrats and if so where are the areas of agreement or disagreement this is you know let me just put a add a little code of this trump in my opinion and dave you know i'd love to get your response to this when trump was running in the primaries i was on the air saying he's going to win because he's running as a democrat and most americans are more favorable you may have republican tribal

sentiments but if you look at policy issues do you also security do you want a boy insurance do you want you know basically do you want free college or whatever you know people tend to like the democrats policies and so trump stole the democratic trade policy he stole the trump the democratic i'm going to protect your medicare social security and medicaid policy he stole the democrats up forty your opposition to free trade deals he stole the democrats opposition to bush's stupid wars he took all these democratic positions and now maybe he's going to start working with democrats. what you think from what i heard the news i was i was just that was what what happened what i did i you know he's been pretty good about maintaining a republican persona. for so far his term but this is one of those times and i'm just like really donald trump is over time been a republican but it democratic and republican a democrat i think you saw opportunity to become president and jump on the republican bad wagon to to do that this was just one of those questionable times

that i'm just what i'm still not sure that but he's saying that he wanted to finally just get something done now he couched it he framed it as you know for the american people but it seems to me that after six months in office seven months in office and not having any consequential accomplishments outside of you know the damage that ryan zinke he and brian proto doing kind of under the radar that that he was just hungry to for a victory he doesn't care what he wins and if that's the case the democrats are willing to give him victories and the republicans are in in hyper factional land with the with the cokehead freedom caucus you know fighting with the with the main street republicans i mean you know. it might be that if donald trump wants to have a successful presidency the only way to do it is with the democrats you know i wasn't surprised with this move at all because as you said at the beginning trump really doesn't have an ideological center i think he's motivated by certain nationalist nationalistic tendencies maybe even

a white nationalistic tendencies but when it comes to size of government issues of entitlements debt limits budgets he's not a republican or democrat and i think he's willing to go with whoever is able to get be more convincing and he's spent the last eight months listening to people like mitch mcconnell who don't really like each other and you can see why these two guys would really like each other and he's been getting dragged in the press for not doing anything for eight months so now he's got a guy like chuck schumer who i'm sure can talk to him a little bit more. just you know each other for twenty five sadly so trump thinks well if i go this way maybe i'll get a little bit more respect and sure enough if you look at the coverage that trump is received on outlets like i was uneasy today it's been some of the best coverage he's gotten since he started bombing syria a few. months ago so i would be surprised to see more of this and even talk to you more of a limited in the debt limit altogether said he'd be interested in supporting without something obama tried to do for years and couldn't do it. the whole debt limit is

a crazy thing anyway it was put into law in the one nine hundred fifty s. by some you know what we would consider today kind of out of touch not part of the mainstream republicans because you know debt limit i mean you know it's because the banks really want to be able to have your savings and when people put their savings in treasury bills the banks view that as a lost opportunity lost money dave do you think that the trump might start cutting deals with democrats well frankly i think use a lot of political capital today or yesterday when it when this happened you think you've used every guy got i think he used a lot of his republican political capital and i don't think going to sort of again any democratic capital for him because they'll see that as an opportunity go all the present to do what everyone does it to do ok it's interesting because i had this battle on my radio show today i you know i started out the show saying it looks to me like you know donald trump only cares about being loved only cares about being able to claim victory and if the if the republicans will not love him and will not give him victories and they have not and the democrats are willing to

do both you know i mean this is a guy who spent most of his life as a democrat aide he doesn't care about labels but if you if you had a tough fight you know it's a tough tough like a football game and it's a really good game but ultimately like wow ok that one party won that was a really good game if you have a really easy game you don't have to put much of a fight and then you walk away like well look at look at the that's not i haven't that's why you know when i was talking about this on the radio and i was like you know democrats you really exploit this they should start you know giving trump a little victories all along the way you know and maybe we'll have locks tonight every time yes you know you totally miss the. actually and soccer is when they come to the white house you know no pun intended but but several people called and said you know what how dare you how could you suggest the democrats should work with this man he's an evil terrible man you know he grabs one about the crotch bloody bloody blah how how could you even say such a thing and i'm like oh wait a minute you know what we negotiated with iran when i go she would north korea it's like you know what if you could do something for the good of the world or of the

country or of the people you do it that's what government is and that's what supposed to happen in congress on the hill you're supposed to ok you're sort of ideas i have myself ideas we find some sort of compromise we take these ideological extremes we say oh we're not going to go to negotiate with you because you're bad or we don't like you and then you get nothing done when it is a democrat or republican it doesn't matter and i think you can do both bernie sanders has kind of laid out his position he will oppose trump on every single issue that is it goes against whether it's to swear there it's an issue of discrimination or hurting working class people or all those he will oppose those with everything he's got but on issues that they agree with and you can get trump shoot if you keep complimenting trump you might get him to single payer in six months who knows yeah but if no i have one wing to work on those things go ahead i had somebody call the radio show today and say every day i tweet donald trump please google tommy douglas you could be him you know and tommy douglas of course the most famous most beloved canadian in in literally history of canada he's the

guy who started their single payer health care system and how we're running move along here reportedly on the urging of none other than nancy pelosi yes she called his office this morning he took the call so did chuck schumer by the way donald trump tweeted this morning that for all those dhaka folks that are out there are concerned about your status during the six month period you have nothing to worry about there's not going to be any action against you so what's going on here as of yesterday white house officials the official talking points said that dreamers should prepare for deportation. they should prepare to leave our country so what do you guys think trump is getting i think this is just more proof that my analysis of the last question which is the only thing donald trump cares about is whether he's loved appreciated is true and then this morning you know after both nancy pelosi and chuck schumer called him he apparently i didn't catch the press conference but i read a story about this that he actually said two to one of them on the telephone hey you know we had better press from our from our accomplishment yesterday and from

our meeting yesterday that i've added my whole presidency i'm really happy about this and he was like super upbeat i got new friends here jack and nancy what's going on here dave. yes. i'm ok this is i have a bit more of a negative outlook on this really you're more skeptical or because look i've seen cynical i may be and i don't know that you may be a little optimistic here because terms twitter town is known dispensary of you know b.s. you can't trust much of what he's talking about on the one hand but on the other hand to sam do you think that accurately reflects the state of his mind at any given moment yet but i don't think he has much control and i think he's delegated a lot to jeff sessions to operate this new policy this new doctor policy i think the internal directives and talking points have been sent out to the department probably way more heavily on how the department's going to go about enforcing that stuff than what his tweets to and i think by telling dreamers that they have

nothing to worry about nancy pelosi is falling into a trap there when they do have a lot to worry about a lot of people have to reregister by october fifth that they're going to if they're if their permission is going to end within the next six months trying to telling them no action you could be defined sorts of ways so you know take you more cynical approach to this it could be he's just kind of paying lip service and telling them to to chill out when so fully intends so sam mentioned wars and jeff sessions dave and. the original dream act passed the house. it is no problem there were even some republicans who voted for it went to the senate it got fifty five votes in the senate out of one hundred senators that's a majority in the constitution it should be law but one man one republican senator said screw this we're not going to let these young young dreamers into this country and he filibustered this thing and shot it down that one man was jefferson beauregard sessions the third he's the guy who's now in charge of minister in the docket program make it work making it work if the president if trump says make this

work don't hurt these kids we're going to work this out we're going to do it legislatively so that i can say that i fixed obama's horrible screw up because that seems to be his mission in life. what is that me well i think actually this was kind of a deflection he was able to to get some cowboy saying look you know we're going to be hard on he want to come this country your people in the country rather but then when he tweeted that out it's almost like a stepping stone so that he can go to congress and say look you guys got to fix this and if you don't fix it it's going to be it could be that or he actually said i'll fix it so he's which completely eliminates his argument that what obama did was an constitution that is your socialism just came out a few days ago in said it's unconstitutional so now you'd be putting jeff sessions in a position where he'd have to enforce an unconstitutional provision so if trump is making this tilt to the democrats the real rub is going to be how people like jeff sessions handle it and how people like mick mulvaney who loved holding the debt

limit hostage is now the guy who's issuing veto threats from the white house how is he going to handle of trump blows up the debt limit or something like that unless rove is saying like hey with my grain to go shoot in schools i'm going to go to congress i'm to say hey congress get your act together get something in place for docket legislatively instead of executive holding my breath dave sam great great having you both with us tonight. coming up after the break i'll be talking with america's lawyer mike papen tonio about his new legal thriller and what it can tell us about fighting back against the military industrial complex. all the feelings of. every the experience. and you get it out in the old the old. the old according to just.

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all the world's a stage and we are definitely a player. you guys and i made a professional is powerpoint to show you how artsy america fits into the greater media landscape is not all laughter all right we are a solid alternative to the. liberal or conservative and as you can see his bar graph we don't skew the facts either talking have led to these talking head righties oh there you go above it all so look out world our team. it is in the spotlight now every really have no idea how to classify and it actually took me way more time than i care to admit. what happens when one person takes on one of the most powerful and dangerous industries in the country as the subject of the new legal thriller by r t america and ring of fire radio host mike papen tonio the book is called law and vengeance

that's coming out at the end of this month that's available for preorder right now joining me now to talk more about his book as might happen tony self-doubt welcome back. good to see you great to have you with us first off half i understand this book is based somewhat on a true story can you tell us about that. yeah it's a case this law firm actually handled where we had a weapons manufacturer obviously somebody who contracts with the government on a regular basis had made a product that was a gun sight and unfortunately the gun side didn't work for about every hundred yards it was off several degrees and it ended up causing injury and actually people being killed by it because when you put it out humidity you put it out in hot air in humidity it just malfunction and here's the real problem the government knew about it the government understood that there were problems with it they sold it anyway they put it on the market anyway and then on top of that when the

government found out about it and actually realize that the company had actually had actually committed fraud nobody's been to jail on this thing is it's a typical kind of thing we see with the whistleblower case tom we have these whistle blowers that put everything on the line to to to share what happened to tell about corporate misconduct to try to get the government to try to get some of this money back you remember when twelve billion dollars showed up in iraq we still don't know to this day where that money went in the whistleblowers that tried to make it an issue we don't we heard nothing else from them either so what is up happening is this is a case the book surrounds the the issues of the whistleblower what a whistleblower goes through and what the government does and how this functional the department of department the department of justice has become to where it's really just about finding these people you know slap them on the wrist they make

a product that ends up killing a soldier or a police officer you know that's ok you continue doing business with us anyway most of these weapons manufacturers that get caught within a year are doing business with the government again it is a biggest scam if taxpayers understood the number of the billions and billions of dollars that we squander on. way to thieves that steal from the government steal from taxpayers make products that don't work taxpayers pay for this book is this book is a fiction that although it's a real case that we handled it surrounds what actually happens to that whistleblower what in the process what inspired you to write the character of gina the main character in one bunyan's. i think women have had a very tough time moving into the practice of law and i'm embarrassed by it frankly they're moving to practice law but they been held down where it comes to their ability to show up in a courtroom and be a trial lawyer because they haven't been well they haven't been well mentored in

that they have been given a lot of opportunity when it comes to doing that thing gina romano was a composite character she's the protectionist in this case one of them and she's a composite of some of the best female trial lawyers that i've worked against and worked with over the years very very tough character as some of these best some of the best female trial lawyers are there very talented there tenacious you just don't want to be on the wrong side of the wrong time gina romano is all of that and she takes on the part of justice she takes on one of the biggest weapon manufacturers in the in the world she takes on police unions and in the end she does it with the kind of class and kind of training in a good lawyer should should be able to do its she's a great character she's going to resurface in a couple of other books that i'm working on right now that's great because it is a page turner this book centers around the issue of faulty gun sites you mentioned

that earlier. were what sold to our government but how concerned should we be about something like that in real life or is that just mete to this larger issue of corporations you know putting their stockholders and their senior executives compensation above all else. we should be very concerned take the same scenario and put it with a drug company for example that manufactures a drug that they know is defective they put it on the market because they know once they get once it gets on the market the f.d.a. is so dysfunctional such a disaster that the more products going to stay on the market for years killing cripple people in the process they're going to make billions of dollars and. so the consumer again is at risk you know the company simply when they're when they're blind with the money that they're making they don't really care a lot about the consumer so again what is the department of justice do about that when a whistleblower comes forward and the whistleblower says you know there's a product out there i worked on i know about the problem i can tell you i can show

you the documents that say that this is a problem sometimes we have a department of justice actually it's become the norm for the department of justice to let these companies get away with it you know they're there they don't look like criminals because they don't they don't wear hoodies they were armani suits so they don't look like criminals so we let them go we find them we find them a billion dollars well they they make a billion dollars most of these products they make anywhere from six to seven billion dollars a year so a billion dollar fine means nothing to these companies the only thing that does is put them in jail once a whistleblower comes forward and shows completely shows the story to to to the government here the documents here's what i said here's what they said here it all is and get the department of justice for once just for once to do their job and throw some of these thugs in prison and you'll see the culture within these

corporations change but until the department of justice does that unfortunately with sessions we have zero chance that that's going to happen obama was not under holder the obama administration was a miserable failure nobody went to jail when they when we were stolen from stole from taxpayers that's going to continue and until we stop that trend we're going to put up with it year after year yeah what a surprise if you don't if you don't police them the criminals just keep doing more and more of what they've been doing can you talk about the role to kill a mockingbird the movie play book plays in this book why why was that such a personally important thing for you. well it had a big influence on me to study and practice law i've wrote a book in search of atticus finch when i was a young lawyer and that book was about how we should how we should live as lawyers that we don't separate the way we live as a parent or a spouse we live our lives in

a continuum and that hopefully that continuum is something that is beneficial to our families to the people that we serve and i really really believe the character . in this dick and thomas nikica thomas is one of the protectionist in this book he was also the main character in the first book law and disorder i think he embraces a lot of these characteristics that atticus finch showed in to kill to kill a mockingbird and i think it's gives us a goal is a lawyer we can say that we can live through this time when we're criticized as being no damn good or we can show by leadership and show that we do we the legacy that will leave behind should be valued so you'll see it in all of my books they'll be some iteration of scout or. you know to kill a mockingbird will show up in all of the books that i'm doing four of these books this is the second the series of for the next one has to do with the opioid crisis in the united states it's called law and addiction and then the the fourth one is

called law on terror it's about banks international banks washing money for international terrorists you may recall they pled guilty nine banks pled guilty to that a couple of years ago i recall those are all cases we're handling by the way remarkable you say in this novel that there are two kinds of lawyers can you tell us what those two kinds are the significance. yeah i think the two kinds of lawyers go into it with the thought that you know you can do you can do well by doing good and there's another top of lawyers that is kind of the businessman that all they really care about how many cases do i have how big a my do they know my name how many billboards do i have how many commercials did i do on last night's television it's all about business and in that business you lose you lose the thread of what we should be doing as lawyers how we should be serving the community how when we do our job when we take on these almost impossible cases all the way i think all the way back to back to when we were so criticized the you

know our law firm was so criticized by trying to take on tobacco impossible how dare you do that we knew it was an uphill battle but we also understood that in that might come some good so our effort to do good actually ended up working very well for us financially but also worked well for us i think in sustaining an important legacy for this law firm for many years to come so i think those are the two different kinds of lawyers one was all about business the other one kind of remembers why they went to law school to begin with right one has a vocation other has an avocation as well what do you want readers of this book are learning about the cultural law in this country especially when it comes to the weapons industry. well i think one thing i want lawyers i want people to learn is i want people to understand that they've been sold a terrible bill of goods by the u.s. chamber of commerce suggesting that all lawyers are simply bad that everybody brings a lawsuit and united states has some ulterior motive and they must have some awful

thing in their mind when they bring a lawsuit i want people understand that there are many lawyers in this country that change our culture that we make huge leaps forward as a culture because of what they do and maybe civil rights it might be environment it might be going after corporate thugs like this firm does regulate it but there's a whole collection of things that actually changes this culture in a positive way on the other side of it you have the bottom feeders just like you have in any profession whether it's journalism doctoring you name it wall street you voice at the bottom feeders and that nothing's going to change about that the only problem is most americans have bought into this you this u.s. chamber of commerce lie that all lawyers are bad and interestingly enough if you ask if you ask individuals what about your lawyer you say you say you personalize what about the lawyer that helps you on this divorce or this criminal issue they're going to tell you they like them because most of the time most lawyers are there to

serve and unfortunately it's only that few that have taken taken this to a business where it's not about serving anymore it's about how much money can i make and it's a real tragedy and it's and by the way it's not just in fact in the legal profession certainly in fact in our politics mike papen tony a brilliant book i highly recommend it thanks so much for being with us tonight. thank. and that's the way it is tonight and don't forget democracy is not a spectator sport get out there get active tag don't.

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