but i. know both i'm sure whether it was but i guess some kind of it was done outside of this yes or it could be a bump on a hand just know she refused to go in that the city. where they. he won't get him it's just a good area for immigrants it's hit and miss we never really know for sure but this has been a active area. next to so i. don't know where when i started no i didn't. think a sure need to the game this is how it works not the economy is built around corporations corporations run washington washington controls the media the media control the.

voters electing the businessman to run this country business equals power you must it's not business as usual it's business like it's never been done before. greetings and salutations history or at least a version of history was used this weekend to continue pushing an agenda of offense when n.f.l. players decided to take the need to take the protest against police violence many were triggered insisting the act was an affront to veterans but some vets like this ninety seven year old world war two vet told the world quote those kids have a right to protest and he's right the very first amendment to our constitution is

the right to freedom of speech protects us from being forced to participate in any nationalistic actions like saying pledges or standing at attention what's really odd though is that francis scott key star spangled banner is on one hand an anti-war protest song about not wanting to drag the us into the war of eight hundred twelve but. the first that we leave out it was the sight of key that most would love to ignore it's the racist one that celebrates the blood of african americans being shed in the name of war see us history is in fact complicated and nuanced especially when it comes to our son while one verse of a song may oppose war sometimes the next one opposes peace now look core of our discussion about our national anthem here in the us is about veterans from so many feel need to be defended our of it seems that the corporate media politicians and activists only care about the issues of veterans when they can use them for clicks and votes according to the u.s. department of veterans affairs nearly eleven percent of adult homeless or veterans

seventy percent of those have septa's substance abuse problems of fifty one percent of homeless veterans have disabilities where's the outrage and support every day when another twenty two veterans commit suicide so while others worry about the point spread and jersey sales let's actually speak for two veterans and start. watching the hawks. killing. the bear really is what. the bottom. line but it looks like you i got. a little little bit their. lips. welcome everybody to watching the hockey time tab until wallace and joining me to get out a veteran's perspective on patriotism is science scientists writer and speaker

chris and meghan thank you for joining me today meghan. thanks for having me chris in new orleans saints quarterback drew brees had this to say about the take the knee protests saying that it's ok to protest quote but if a protest becomes if we're going to sit down or kneel or not show respect to the flag of the united states and everything that it symbolizes and everything that it stands for and everything that our country has been through to get to this point we know that things are not where they should be but we will continue to work and strive to make things better chris and as a veteran do you feel like this protest which is about police violence disrespects your service and the armed forces. absolutely not i actually find no direct correlation between the protest that has shed light i'm pleased violence through not standing for the anthem i find no correlation between that having anything to do with my time in service or the oath that i took to the constitution not

a song it's often said that the veterans we fight the you fight for our right to protest when a protest that calls into question the failures of a system that's supposed to protect us we're often told that we should just sort of shut up and be respectful is this is just another side of the sort of political correctness coin but now using that says pawns and how do you feel bad as about being used that way. it bothers me a lot to see veterans used as a crutch first off i do not speak for all veterans but i did spend nine years on active duty and i'm also a disabled veteran. what i find ironic is military members and also police officers take an oath and are also may not be exactly the same but they all are grounded and up holding the constitution so as a veteran when i see tons of athletes and public figures and average citizens protesting the national anthem which does not have the same meaning for everyone i

personally have not set for the anthem in seven years since i was honorably discharged from my own reasons but why. as a veteran i see all these people opposing injustice through police violence and i as someone who took an oath i want to hold that fellow government employees accountable to about oh so if anything this should be inciting activism from other veterans not not offending them why do you think that is the veterans because the truth is when i'm speaking to people who are veterans i haven't really heard a lot of people saying that they're offended it's people who say they support vets who didn't serve but think they have that back where is the disconnect between this sort of commercialized idea of supporting your vat's the way the n.f.l. did i mean they took money in order to just you know say hey are vets are great they had to be paid to do it so where's the disconnect between the people who really get what what's going on there and those who just kind of grasp onto it because it's the you know pseudo patriotic thing to do. well the whole idea of

supporting the troops to me is such a blind form of patriotism because we're only supported when we fall in line which . gives me the ideology mandated nationalism when you have veterans like myself who are trying to promote individual liberty and peace you have these people whether they're veterans or just average civilians or they have family members who have passed on while on active duty they hijack our personal experiences and our our personal dedication to american history or why we joined it's because of the propaganda that is just spewed out through commercials during sporting events that people just they hide behind it as if it's a religion saying i support the troops but you don't support us if you silence us because not all of us agree with what some are speaking for us about it that makes sense history's really important and i know you as well as i american history's

super important you got to know how it actually works you have to know what the founding fathers actually said so which may. me always sort of giggle because i watch people and it's saying our founding fathers would be turning in our graves and i feel like no one's really read say the federalist papers or really understand what's going on there you've spent a lot of time studying this tell me what do you think our founding mothers and fathers would say about people being more concerned with a flag in a song than violence by police officers against u.s. citizens. well i have no idea at what point in history society hijacked the writings of our founders and kind of molded them into meetings that i don't think that they would want us to believe i believe that our founders really really were against anything mandated as far as like religion or you or any political stances they didn't want anything shoved down anyone's throat they really just wanted a peaceful society and that kind of falls in line with the history of the flag you

know at the time that the flag was pushed upon the founders to help identify themselves kind of like teams have office and defense and we've molded into this like religion this i don't mean this in a negative way but like this cult like nationalism and all of that is used as like a motional layer over all these atrocities that are occurring and i think our founders would roll over in their graves if they saw that the use of power and racism that has been occurring systemic lead throughout our nation and sadly throughout the world and by saying that your feelings are hurt because people refuse to acknowledge a song that has a different meaning to them meanwhile completely ignoring what's going on around this country it's to me that is what is un-american. what do you think that you know do you think it's politics and politicians in that machine that makes it worse and turns these things because as much as we want to you know the left says we

should all stop being divisive and stop talking about things that are divisive but is standing up against police violence which doesn't isn't just about you know people open their eyes it's a much larger problem than just african-americans being shot or people you know people have their their livelihoods they have their property stolen by police there's a much bigger problem how do we get people to open up and see that it's patriotic to stand up because this cult mentality is very dangerous no matter what side you're on. well i think if today we the mindset of today looking back at what the founders had did they would be viewed as rogue people they would be doing as people that were negative and unappreciative as they are doing to people like myself but what's what's really important is that like you said there's so much more to this protest regarding the anthem in relation to police violence. it's not just the videos we see in social media it's not the settlements that are quietly publishing

media it's it's the police officers who are posting pictures of civil asset forfeiture it's them taking pictures of seizing a plant that has been known to help countless people the issue is here is we have a double standard and this is where i think when you start opening the discussion there are people who are federally protected like utility workers and police where you promote or initiated by a once against them your punishment is more harsh you have additional charges but when police abuse their power or the use excessive force or they misuse government money and assets and property they don't have a harsher penalty so if we really want to quality in this country we need to start inside our government which means holding all the. women employees military police politicians all of them accountable if you do something wrong you're held to the same standard as if someone had done something to them it's it's not happening

currently and that to me if there was more called ability we wouldn't see some of the issues that we're having now there just seems to be a disconnect between the of the level of responsibility that job entails and how much leeway we're supposed to give for bad behavior yet you know someone uses their first amendment free speech rights to literally just go down on one knee and nonviolent protest they're not saying the flag is bad or anything else. as a veteran what's the message you would like to say to people who have that view of this idea that america is this is turning into this sort of a disturbing us versus them kind of thing what what what did you learn being of that and how does it make you feel and what's your message to people out there about that how do we get past that. well one thing i think we need to acknowledge as a country is that we have this almost a form of nationalistic narcissism we are

a great nation we are and there are countries who have less freedoms than us but that doesn't mean that we should accept the oppression on some of our freedoms that we're trying to preserve i spent nine years on active duty and i did join after nine eleven and i'd say by your seven i slowly started to realize that what i thought i had been doing was not necessarily what i had thought and i many people who join the military i'm sure we all have the mindset that we think we're fighting for freedom we really want to help promote individual liberty and peace but what we need to do is we need to stop this imperialistic mindset we need to stop policing the world and we really need to look at ourselves we cannot better anyone else in this world has to we better ourselves and what we have to do is stop blindly labeling every single person in a professional hero not all military members are here. yes most and all are selfless but we really need to stop just feeling the blanket hero label on cops and other members of government because within those professions there are major bad

apples there are bad missions and there are unjust orders that are given out so what we need to do is start listening to better and start listening to people on active duty and like for example when people think me for my service it's always an awkward conversation and i always say thank you but i prefer you to say thank you for your sacrifice or thank you for being selfless because i didn't feel i had a service and that's sad but i feel like i'm doing more now for this country being in my civilian attire talking to people like you spreading this about cij so i think that we just need to stop demonizing people who have different perspectives because as a veteran it's very painful to know that i'm supported until i speak out against unjust issues in this country i think absolutely right and i thank you for your activism actor and i thank you for the sacrifices thank you for the selflessness obviously but i thank you for having the strength to be here and talk about these issues because it's so important christine magen scientist writer and speaker at

liberty advocate i would like to thank you for taking the time today and speaking on this issue. thank you. as we go to break don't forget to let us know what you think of the topics we've covered on facebook and twitter. dot com and coming up we'll be joined by obama. professor of international politics university its other southern mark to discuss the ongoing issues with catalonia and independent stay tuned to watch along. seemed wrong. just don't hold. me. to shape out these days comes out to. and in. equals betrayal.

when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. thank you thank. you the song thank you. thank you thank you. thank you. thank you for the you were thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank.

you predating the concepts of human rights equality and even modern democracy the ideal of self-determination has been a guiding force in shaping today's nations and societies thanks to historic moments such as our very own declaration of independence and revolutionary war india's nonviolent struggle for freedom from the british empire or even the diplomatic chess match that resulted in the unification of germany from hundreds of vitamins kingdoms and city states our understanding of the modern world has become intertwined with the idea that distinct communities have a right to determine their own governments and form of nationhood the less we take this nation notion for granted we are served well to remember the many across the world must still fight for this right and this we can nobody is fighting harder than the people of catalonia spain's northeastern region that is one way in one way or another has been struggling to regain its independence for over a decade to discuss this issue and more we're joined with professor john make a son an expert in international politics and territorial disputes thank you for

joining us. we're getting is i mean there is a there's a referendum on cattle it is in the pan it's coming up this sunday october first but that nasa no government has apparently ban fighting tooth and nail to keep it from happening can you give us a little background on this conflict and what the two what the two sides are of legal standing as at this point. yes i think it is not too far a french to claim that we are facing the most serious constitutional crisis in western europe since the woolworth two depending on how those parish government handles the situation we may very well be in a position where we could have plenty of potential for territorial transformations in western europe on the one side we have the spanish government they have the upper hand whenever it comes to the legal argument it is crystal clear an hour to go to of the spanish constitution states very clearly that the. spanish territorial integrity is in be inviolable inviolable now they have the legal claim therefore

they have the legal argument the problem with the spanish side is that that's the only argument they have they have either been too lazy to complacent or doing competent to perswade catalans for the past few years but the fact is that the catalans they have the other side they have the moral argument they have the south determination argument and i think the spanish government believed the cotton politician and the catalan civil society the catalan public they were bluffing and what we are seeing these past few days is that name and business. constitutional matters aside actually some of the news coming out seems incredibly disturbing even at alarming for example police of and carrying out raids on bridges on city government buildings trying to i guess confiscate the physical ballots that would be used to vote and the government is even charging i notice a radio host for

a quote endangering police operations by urging our listeners to stay alert and report on any of this police activity considering spain was under a fascist government as recently as forty years ago how do these moves resonate with with people in catalonia. they resonate very lound i'm very clear some would suggest that the spanish dictator francisco franco didn't die in bed in one thousand seventy five but he is running loose in the streets of catalonia as you said well the instruments we are witnessing. used by the spanish state by the spanish state i doubt it's not just the government but the state of our troops in quetta lardy that are the classic instruments of any of the retailer and regime they have been inflicting. most terror and fear amongst a lot of local population they have been bringing in the newspapers getting that was right with not right writing in private companies accusing protestors of

sedition are very serious crime arresting toward do no harm and officials arresting activists criminalizing political opinion and also i must add a meeting to rising because a lot of bringing tens of thousands of parliament tripoli's of national police under five to suspending because of the autonomy and also let me share with the audience. the latest they have also been involved in i don't know you know like call like all of the u.k. regimes claiming even that russia is involved in so important thing that can cause these now pretty postures these is ludicrous and again a reminder of the frank spear. it in franco times he always came he had a magic sentence which was russia is to blame well it seems that these rousseau for me at the believe about it in the spanish state is once again coming out to the surface issuing allegations which are completely unsubstantiated well it's i was.

to blame rash that seems to be that the easy way now yeah how do you see this fall playing out this weekend do you think it will even happen and if it does waiting think things will land as you can imagine it is tremendously difficult to make predictions at this stage what i can assure you is that on the one hand we will see state repression of the returned repression at its best and we will see as well civil disobedience we will just we will not have a normal day where catalans will go and cast their ballots we will have a day where catalans will go in there the night before tonight before in order to protect their polling stations you know there to protect their ballot boxes that are all boxes in order to protect their votes with their bodies and if necessary. this is the only prediction i can make a distaste so i would encourage people to do to follow for example the street that

are you following the conflict very closely even edward snowden has has been mentioning it so to follow very closely because what will happen on sunday is perhaps that spain will dismantle its own democracy and that's catalans will actually fight for cutting democracy but maybe even for spinors democracy i mean i may say that that these are the spanish government does not mean these is that if you allow me to to say that this is that the stones term politics that spain has been using over the past two hundred years and these testosterone politics is precisely what led to the collapse of the spanish empire. meaning that i'm trying to do all of this over the past two hundred years and now it seems as if that sort of that's going to happen in a way the breakup of these large. empires that grew and grew and grew as the story of testosterone politics use that then it's made that it's a big. aggressive thing and what you're seeing is more and more of these european

separatist movement you've got scotland talking about it and then you know if you go down the route they're worried that people are worried that if catalonia gets independence then the basque region is going to go and do you think that's the worst thing for these a large groups you know this is where bracks that's coming from and the e.u. that these things are going to break down because community do you think that community by community is more important than the as a large international multinational sort of conglomerates of nations. i believe maybe too early to make such are you going to be able to do to do make such generalization or to come up with this argument i believe that everything starts on october the first and we have to wait and see what happens with the learning because we have many different potential scenarios one of the scenarios is of course that spain manages to crumble to crush the capital and

throws secession movement which by the way used to be procession and now it seems to be a pro-democracy movement so we will have to wait and see what happens what we saw in scotland is that through police we really can inject intelligence with statesmanship you can actually the seats. in the ground those movements what we see in spain is a different tactic is the tactic as i said also started in politics so we will see which one is more effective for they did come and i have to say the tactic to allow us cross to have their say was actually he scored a huge massive political victory by doing so how important a minute left how important is that independence and why do you think it's so important people now. i think a few weeks ago a few months ago it was a matter of woodcutters viewed as their national right. yes they are

a nation therefore they have to right to become a state that by few weeks this has changed and now it is no longer national rights now it is a matter of civil rights now it is a matter of democratic rights now it is a matter of a human rights and now it is a matter of dignity so when we will see in barcelona on sunday is not just growing the parents people defending their right to vote but it shouldn't be pro-democrat to be republicans get real also read socialist it will also be people from a wide range of ideologies which will gather together and really tell just by mistreats. they will not defeat cut army and through military action i want to thank you so much there is so much to sort of unwrap with these these kinds of things as we have seen centuries of conglomerations of countries and now we're seeing places you know be independent and go through this process and i want to thank you for helping us understand the ideas of catalonia and what's going on

there we look forward to having you on again thank you so much make us expert in international politics and territorial disputes thank you for joining us. finally the max planck institute for solar system research was using the hubble space telescope telescope now in its twenty seventh year of service and they came across an asteroid that acts like a comet see on september of twenty six to in september attorneys explain the binary asteroid two eighty eight p. was recorded by hubble making a pretty close approach toward earth when it did they notice that it was one asteroid but two that are orbiting each other and its reactions to the sun mean that to any a.p. is the first known by narry asteroid but is also classified as a main belt com. kind of crazy as demands from the many international science working on hubble and think this binary system have been traveling

companions for over five thousand years so today it's asteroid comics tomorrow it's well we'll just have to wait and see what the brilliant minds and the europeans things and history and everybody else who continues to turn the dream of hubble into reality find out pretty exciting well that's our show for you today take care of each other and remember everyone as my co-host tyrrel banter always says in this world we're not fall for a lot of the not so i tell you i love on top of the wallet and keep on watching those socks and have a great day and night everyone. would pose and you should. put themselves on the line. to get accepted or rejected.

so when you want to express. yourself want. to be right. this is what the three of you get. interested. in. seeing over your next. man wouldn't matter to you just a little bit since the last time you. could introduce you eat. most. balsall drug syndicates why you're growing marijuana and north tomatoes it's

a. good deal of it full grown. for nobody wants people to. come up here. as it were. to be. a. loaf must and the government knows what they do and they do nothing. and. this is how. the economy is built. from washington to washington. voters elected this man to run this country business because. you must it's not business as usual it's business like it's never been done before.

headline stories this hour russia's ministry of defense say it's hit terrorists i post on weapon two provinces of syria the russian military strikes were far from civilian areas rebels. the face of the alternative for germany party resigns over internal strife less than forty eight hours after the right wing groups break through in the federal elections and parliament for the first. french president to money will. shake the european union.