oh the independence referendum in catalonia has caused a violent crisis in spain with potential wider consequences for the european union . where to go from here on how can the european community help well i asked the former head of the council of europe walter. stubborn kind of drive for independence has been met with a heavy spanish crackdown people fired out interested was kind of poor and measured stalwart in his hardline resolve how should the european union react to the crisis in a peaceful way i would be found after the clashes with passion in the region and an all time high and brussels pomerado as solution well to shrimp are welcome to the show it's good to have you on our program now you were at the helm of the council of europe and very vocal in your support for e.u. unity but at the moment the continent has its problems for instance in spain got to

lonia has voted for independence while madrid says to referendum was illegal clashes between the spanish police and independence supporters left more than eight hundred people wounded and the region has now gone on strike so in your opinion what's next will one side bag down or is another spanish civil war on the cards. it calls. that's. no alternative i have been shocked by the force used by the police i fully understand that the spanish government wants to defend the territorial integrity of the country on the other side. was a chose to fight. requests formed by the people of kut ahluwalia so that cannot be answered fire just by police force other calls for dialogue i hope europe will be

able to moderate such a dialogue between the spanish central government and. the government of cut the lumia so the main issue between the main bone of contention between catalonia and the central government is fiscal policy council on one control over their taxes something that the basques have for instance so it's not impossible why not just give them that one that suits the tensions. this could be the outcome of a fruitful dialogue. i don't think that. the supporters of cut the loons cut the long years into independence extremists. they want like everybody else in europe to live in peace and to decide on their own . affairs so compromise should people feasible and

i call upon to both sides to be ready to such a dialogue. you know in canada and the united kingdom central government allowed secession referendums treated them whether respect and personated people to state peacefully why didn't the same happen in spain. just to just to declare it's illegal is this not enough of it is of course not in accordance with the spanish constitution so. the musicians of the. constitutional court then the ball but. the this is the cut alone people should have the opportunity to express their opinion and i'm not sure that under the peaceful conditions there would be a majority for independence. but you're right the spanish government should be ready to accept the referendum with full information of the people what does it

mean what it means independence what it means and hence autonomy so and the question perhaps should not be only yes and no to independence by those zero option enhanced autonomy for catalonia you know before this violence happened the public opinion on independence was actually a tilting and moderates favor is it too late now to per se but catalans around again does the you're right you're right to it and. the behavior of the police is absolute unacceptable and that has driven i think more people to the side of the separatists but do you think it's too late now to actually personally have the cotland the way around no it's never never to it's never too late it's never too late as long as peaceful solutions are possible one

should strive for so qantas prime minister trudeau is actually from quebec which was once looking to break away from canada to spain maybe need a prime minister from catalonia in power would that actually help solve anything. for of the time be don't see the opportunity of having a prime minister from cut the lumia in the spanish government so let's look for every other. opportunity to solve these. disputes peacefully barcelona's mayor has called on spain's prime minister to step down they say appointing new rock or stepping down the problem is that the spanish central government has to learn how to deal with. more self-determination

that's that's the that's the point what do you mean and that is you said before they are. then and independents are not independents and then so tell me what besides such an option and with more things fiscal zero sorted before the government can cut a loan i think main difficulties. could be solved by before the referendum spain's foreign minister branded a mockery of democracy long list of the kata loans are also calling the actions of which reads an affront to democracy who if anyone is right in the situation once again. your personal take on official statement. here we have a conflict of two principles the principle of. sense to terminations of people and the principle of territorial integrity. is not the only case in that respect.

but as spain is a member of the european union spain is a member of the council of europe. spain should be committed to peaceful solutions. the e.u. has sat there referendum wasn't legal and didn't promise membership to catalonia as supporting the dream but in light of the violence is it right for the e.u. to be condoning such brutal tactics. is a huge it should condemn such. an acceptable behavior. of law enforcement agency of the central government. this was not helpful not the template for the position of the central government so i think the problem is that the whole and the. central government should apologize for the actions of

god you'll see real and. central police units and that would open the power for for dialogue and for negotiations between the two parties and that which is so the spanish that has condemned the catalan authorities for placing themselves outside the law and democracy while backing the central government for ensuring the constitutional order i mean in a way it's understandable he's a mourner what else is going to say but wouldn't that be wiser for him to actually go neutral isn't one of spain yeah but wouldn't be wiser in this situation to actually be more natural and calm things down i mean look at queen elizabeth of england was a lot more careful in a similar situation giving audience to the scottish first minister making very careful call and even though she was always late and there's a little old central authorities in spain including the king the prime least of

cause the parliament or the socialist opposition should bear in mind that. the way i would have wanted to defend the territorial integrity was supporting. the call for independence of course have to diminish and. so we should go a step back and trying to find common way out to how to deal with the issue of the cut alone people cattle on politicians have called on the e.u. to mediate but weisel so has said that the whole thing is a spanish internal matter why not help out a fellow member state in trouble why not help mediate i wouldn't say that full internal matter. the force used by the spanish police

of was in my view clear violation of human rights and this is never. an internal matter this is a european matter and human rights are violated. what do you think are the consequences of the catalan vote for the european union. that there are no you know immediate consequences of to catalonia vote and if you deal. seriously with the legal correct of the referendum. it cannot be taken as the disease you know if the majority of the head alone people of partly because of the actions of a central government which complicated by loads it confiscated ballot boxes that said to a set of which closed down polling stations. it's

a difficult situation. it's. the solution is not a legal one the solution is a political one and must be the political of both sides of spanish government and of the cuts alone young government to sit still and to find solutions this is my final statement to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue discussing today with the question of the copula referendum on the rest of the e.u. and other challenges to block its crazy staging.

despite all the efforts of the central banks to kill the economy by keeping bankers solvent when they should have been declared bankrupt years ago the index is showing that interest rates are going to go higher this means two things number one property market's going to crash and number two bond markets going to crash. in the u.s. a child can choose a nominee course in school. with a retired officers as teachers we don't. recruit will says to you if the cadet is interested in going in the military but we don't recruit ourselves and see. the

pentagon is funding a program to boost interest in the military among teenagers your chance to step up to an apollo so that comfortable with yourself. you can't go wrong with the military it's a great stepping stone for whatever career you want to do but some veterans are willing to tell enthusiastic children a little more they ask me call of duty is a very popular first year video game. it's play and that's because the military like call of duty to turn off call of duty oh yeah well you can turn off your lot of these kids just don't hear. the darker side does the pentagon allow them to be told or does it just need more recruits. economic development is. really important this quarter we are six points. but what do we know about the other figures. that our c.e.o.

might do. over twenty million dollars last year more than one thousand times the average wal-mart associate. with all due respect i have to say i don't think that's right. people from pretty simple financial lives. to the point now where people are. just totally submerged in their financial accounts and they're all in debt and what exactly society. try to do. my. work. goes. wrong.

or back with walter schwimmer former secretary general of the council of europe and co-founder of dialogue of civilizations research institute discussing the wisdom castle or referendum on independence in the context of present challenges mr schumer the e.u. has also other issues right now the title refugees and migrants into europe has been put under some control for now but what is happening to those who are already in how is their integration going. the the refugee can rise is if you want if you want to call it that way. has two major

perspectives one is the control of the outer borders of the european union which has to be enforced. if do you must be possible for for it control the out borders. it is clear that few to the geographical situation. mainly greece and italy are involved in the refugee wave from the middle east and from africa and on the other hand the more wealthy countries from sweden the other lands germany austria i involved because people when moving to europe understandable it wants to go to a place where they are better living conditions. but the rights to asylum in the right if used to speak about real refugees because they are refugees of

coming from conflict areas and they are economic migrants who wants just to have a better life in europe where it will do your room you can european union has to deal with all these aspects yes but and it's must insist on solidarity of all european countries with those countries who are targeted by the wave of refugees but what is happening is no doubt sceptical that for example a large country poland which your benefits from you membership are refusing to take refugees but what's happening to the refugees that are already inside europe how is their integration going. those who have to rights to stay in europe that were. granted asylum. or i was will will be for me perry in the reasons except it as residents of the european countries they have to be

integrated and this is not of one way street. the the governments regional governments local governments have to offer the opportunities for integration but people has also be ready for integration we have in austria just in our piece discussion because some radical islamic movements are against the integration of. muslims who came to australia i was i'm favor i was i helping i was i want to be integrated so. it is also a cutie of migrants and refugees to contribute to the only to gratian learning the language of the country where they live accepting their way of living living in this country is accepting equal rights for men and women for example there's

a clear request but what do you think is going to happen to those tens of thousands of people who god even are they going to end up settling in ghettos like in paris and other major cities no one should one should try to avoid and ghettos are not so not a solution. so integration integration into the labor market integration into society is a must when we want to have these full communities beautiful sight is in the future . can the band's own work us like the one in austria actually work to integrate people into european societies or instead enrage them by forcing to give up on their is a dish it's a sick it's a sick it's a signal it's a signal oh it's

a signal it's not directed helping of course but is a signal. to the migrants. if you want to leave here if you want to stay for ever in europe if you want to stay for ever in germany in austria france or and sweden you have to accept the way of life of. the relevant society and work is of cause transplanting i'll state it properly how society to europe and it's not acceptable and therefore. it's not a problem of messes it's about it's a signal to the migrants you want to stay here you have to integrate but what if that signal eliminates those migrants it would further away or forces them to radicalize civil war would you hear that from america i don't i

don't think so and it's biased by far not the majority not even most of their own minority of migrants who want to force their wives who are the poor come. so i think it's a clear division line between the majority who is willing to integrate and the minority wants to establish a parallel society which is unacceptable. do you feel like there is any other way to make fame migrants enter great into the european society without asking them to give up on their traditions if traditions are clearly against european traditions they have to decide whether they want to stay and do accept the european way of life or at the end they

have to go back who does a society is. but they also know in movement look to saudi arabia. but come bring some of no women who drive cars i think. it's a good sign and i think what is happening in their own societies. should be taken into consideration those of been living in a european country and the rise of the right in europe is directly connected to their refugee influx do you see a danger here they hate the passion is this leading to politics that is more intolerant than usual if integration is rejected by certain groups of migrants that could leads to such

a situation but that we have to avoid it therefore we have to inhance all measures for successful integration. so there's no repercussion on the european society itself. here it is now seeing terror acts of a completely new nature niva tax vehicles being used as weapons lone wolf attacks as well as a spike in violence aimed at refugees goes both ways attacks on camps and homes individual assaults what's happening why is the continent becoming infiltrated with violence. first of all i would not blame the migrants or effort use what the situation this has a root cause is it's the export of ideas simply in principle seems to be defeated in its own region and now tries to bring. do you think that

they should mark the war to euro. but that means only that there should be more european cooperation more. common fight against terrorists and. change of information etc etc i think it's possible and we should not be afraid of this terrorism in austria as minister of foreign affairs and integration sebastian courts sad immigration is changing australia not in a positive but in negative way would you agree with this statement no i would want i want three. so far. we've ever been successful in integration. some problems. some problems. for example brought into austria by the mums who are not part of also

muslim society but paid from abroad. your story on law on the islam is for building financing from abroad overages communities so as ingrid we have time taken the right positions and. we will succeed in that with the netherlands germany belgium swit and austria that will have been considering the idea of creating a mini shang game zone to better guard their external borders and stem the flow of refugees france and germany have been discussing multi-speed integration for the e.u. even the unity is a bit of a danger here are members going to drift away from each other. yes i don't on the don't support such. tendencies and initiatives. the solution is a better control of the outside board of health of voters of the european union and

not exclude european countries from european integration you're taking part in the dialogue of civilizations for a moment ro this island where the focus on multiple already in regional and global developments but today it seems like people want instant solutions a lot more than a dialogue calling for patients and dialogue is i dare say i mean boring how do you change that yeah of course not i loath is very often more cumbersome way but the best way. if we want to achieve what these divisions of the finest majority of people believe in peace is to enjoy prosperity and to prove prepare a better future for the children and grandchildren there are no instant solutions. no violence illusions there's only the way to explore how we

can live together and so to get all these problems and this is still the major achievement of the european union and the council of europe that european countries came together to solve such questions to give a. mr treuer thank you for being with us today we were talking to walter schwimmer former secretary general of the council of europe and co-founder of dialogue of civilizations research institute about the recent independence referendum in catalonia and the impact it will have on spain and the rest of europe that's it for this edition of sophie and co i'll see you next time.

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live a full time. russia's prosecutor general. american media outlets now. in response to the pressure he has faced over the state. president calls for. fake news networks in the united states. the head of the spanish government. for the. great region but he says the police are justified in their actions nonetheless. have.