america is. better than. ever heard of. down to the next president of the world bank very. little more rival protests over the future of catalonia as the spanish region is left in limbo decision to impose direct rule. r.t. gains exclusive access to the syrian town of mired in freed from islamic state by government forces. also a document released under the freedom of information act reveals the pentagon simulated the middle east style war game invasion of west africa. these people are serious. in almost every case to

kill comments from a british minister sparked anger as he suggests killing all u.k. citizens who joined islamic state we'll have a live debate on that coming up shortly. good evening my name is neil harvey this is r.t. international. and we will start with yet more protests in spain they follow madrid's decision to impose direct rule on catalonia in the wake of the region's independence vote senate's expected to approve the sacking of the region's leadership on friday and. be dissolved will be stripped of its power to elect a president. has more from barcelona. walk alone together in the kaplan people had a chance to respond. we saw those fully supporting independence and also those who

want to be cash less but part of spain. probably independence leaders sounded better this in the beginning than the tone change just. look at the people of get along won the right to become an independent state ripples him but we propose that parliament suspends the proclamation of a dependants. it would practically deciding the future of a nation is not a crime so here is what we have the region is stuck in limbo while the cattle a government has been and for weeks the jury took an unprecedented step and asked the national senate to depose that we. now have a cattle and the president called it the worst attack since franco's dictatorship if you reboard over with both attackers and the founders using similar arguments on

each other. in a greatly irresponsible act christ all boundaries by announcing and in fact a coup d'etat to oust a democratically elected government if this is a complete drive there is a clue to fall is the one that have been you know followed by. mr bush and his government. we're now applying article one five five because no government a tool in a democratic country can accept that the law will be ignored or violated or changed . the spanish government illegally proclaimed itself the representative of the catalans kaplan a story that still think they could win local media speculation that the president could even officially proclaim independence this week but it seems ordinary catalans are the ones on the losing site. independence was declared in a very messy way so i'm not surprised by what's happening is that we're a bit lost is the first time we found ourselves in such

a situation there are people here doing demonstrations week after week and they don't talk about the only talk about some people that is doing other demonstrations but not the cut to the majority of the spanish senate still house to approve the measure is presented to treat and if it does council will remain a time in this in the moment at least till the next reason elections to take place within the next six months i do question r.t. barcelona. meanwhile spain's foreign minister has sparked anger for saying the videos of police cracking down on voters he says they were misleading. i'm not saying that all fake pictures but some of them are and you know there has been a lot of alternative facts and fake news here.

videos of police using excessive force appeared on social media on the day of the referendum and the cases of violence were also caught on camera by our own t.v. crews along with witness testimonies. were just helping the people because they were throwing them from up. the stairs and sewing them down in them probably here and someone is on the floor and there is that. person that's down. while a small region in the pyrenees mountains the arran valley says that if catalonia breaks away from spain it will break away from catalonia and it has the right to do it as well thanks to a law passed in two thousand and fifteen. then as they are on their lea is a unique territory within catalonia it is self-governing has its own institutions its own language and its own history in culture only nineteen percent of those who vote in the referendum in favor of catalan independence that it was. our right to

self-determination was unanimously approved by the cattle and parliament and by the spanish state we could become a part of france or china tomorrow for instance if we chose to do so but we won't do it we want to remain a part of catalonia and spain you know people are really afraid especially for the economy the economy of their run valley is very french carol because it is entirely dependent on tourism therefore anything that we can see it makes people really afraid. well in the wake of catalonia is referendum two major italian regions overwhelmingly voted for greater autonomy on sunday here's what the leaders of long body and then a tow are hoping for so. we want to overcome the inability of europe to solve problems and face up to them by offering a new dimension we want to a more united stronger europe one that takes into account the specifics of

territories this is what can be simply called the europe of regions where not a page of history will be written in any case village so will not be the same as before we want to initiate this in a manner that's democratic lawful and compatible in line with the constitution. well these two votes are the first that they kind seen in italy they're not doing all of the regions may now seek greater economic independence some locals are unhappy at having to subsidize poorer parts of the country that the regions and sells to italy's economic powerhouses they account for almost a third of the country's entire g.d.p. several tourism industry hotspots that includes milan and venice university of milan politics professor marco bussau in the belief that the map of europe will change dramatically in the near future i think we witness in really the disintegration of this kind of european order and there will be a confederation in europe clearly like ten or fifteen years from now but not based

on the nation states. that we know if catalonia. and spain break apart then a lot of things will happen there that will have definitely a domino effect with scotland and all sorts of other regions that might be easily thirty five to forty five new countries coming up. u.s. bank forces in syria have liberated the country's most lucrative oil field from myself . and there is or province was captured by the terrorists in two thousand and fourteen so produces up to nine thousand barrels a day and became a key moneymaker for the terrorists the syrian democratic forces have been fighting terrorists mainly on the eastern side of the euphrates river meanwhile government troops backed by russian ursa border are on a separate and the isolation these exclusive pictures are from the town but they

recently liberated meyer did the operation there began on the west bank of the river government troops are now clearing up pockets of terrorist resistance on the east side r.t. arabic spoke with residents about life under isis. leisel militants declared jihad a bit more than a month ago this was a general mobilization and everyone had to participate the established age of those subject to mobilization is from twenty to thirty years did they take all the young pino because many of them escaped the militants confiscated all state property for example i am a civil servant so they took my house and turned it into a living room or headquarters the living room was used to gather women why did they collect women in the living where there are hostages where did they come from they were brought from everywhere they were kidnapped i mean what i say the militants marry them when one of the militants died the second married his woman. to milton's drove also jurors found a syrian arab army into cages and put them into the water put into the water to

drown they were lowered into the water to militants for sister attention read classes and go to a mosque when they found someone's empty place during prayer to beat as we do with intercourse to the police station once i was standing in a park and watching the children playing city caught me in which me eight times. neighboring iraq the standoff between kurds and iraqi or thora he says continued after baghdad took control of the oil rich province of cork provinces in the area known as iraqi kurdistan it was governed mainly by kurds the un has expressed concern over the situation is nearly one hundred thirty six thousand civilians have been forced to flee the conflict it says r.t. arabic visited a hospital in could cook treating those injured in the fighting. we

were there is part of the forces they had to retreat and i was wounded with a burst of fire from a machine gun the forces of the iraqi military took we here where they carried out surgery and remove bullets from me. when. i was wounded and i was brought here by fighters over the iraqi militia. each one of. your kill me had his targets defined while the push mugger type everyone always came down or no kids they destroyed us we were my own people in one house one person doing. our report obtained by the media under the freedom of information act shows that america has been simulating an invasion of west africa it follows an imaginary terrorist attack in new york. expects.

this fictional scenario begins in may twenty twenty three there's been a devastating terror attack in new york terrorists detonate truck bombs at either end of the lincoln tunnel there they kill and injure hundreds of americans and just like nine eleven led to the war on terror in the middle east this fictional attack leads to the deployment of u.s. and canadian troops in africa they're fighting african al-qaeda militants and the president promises it'll take just three years according to this fictional script but two years into the war and things aren't going well. there is a nineteen percent increase in violence in mauritania and mali where the war has quietly spread too as well and that's despite the fact that there's seventy thousand u.s. and canadian troops in the region. now three years

later just as the troops are meant to be pulling out according to the president's timeline the war game throws another painfully familiar spanner into the works and that is a fictional general sending a fictional communique saying that he recommends delaying pulling out the troops by one year at least in fact he recommends sending more troops to the region in order to avoid the mission failing entirely so the word quagmire certainly springs to mind it is all pretty reminiscent of the us is. real forays abroad for example in afghanistan but the whole point of this war game is to help prime the future generals of the us it was being simulated in the most elite military training academies across the us and it's interesting that the action plays out on the african continent bear in mind there. are already one and a half thousand u.s.

troops in africa already is this all out for you d n a slip about where the pentagon thinks the war on terror is going to shift to next and doesn't share the pentagon's stark real is there about the way that u.s. military conflicts tend to pan out. you know both from the transnational foundation for peace and future research that it isn't easy for washington to change its approach to conflicts where this. illustration is the only an ounce of the american real can we look cheery and political people our ears to for tat violence against violence and this is our ending we're never going to have solve the problem of terrorism by killing terrorists it's as stupid as it would be to say we want to eradicate all diseases by killing all patients if you're really strong in the only let's say don't mention of power that you how it works and how are all problems in

the world will be seen as subs and will be solved by means of hammers and libyan instead of you know or using other tools you are ending up smashing one country after getting hit. russian radio journalist has been stabbed in the neck while working in her newsroom in moscow she's now in hospital in an artificially induced coma doctors describe her condition as a serious journalist works for the echo of moscow seen by many as an opposition radio station r.t. said if you're trying to has more. it's guests include all kind of opposition figures including some of the radical voices so this brutal knife attack was really something that grabs so much media attention this place was packed with journalists just a short while ago and there are still many reporters on the scene events here in central moscow unfolded very quickly the man first attacked the security guards downstairs with some kind of spray then he went upstairs on the elevator and went

through the elevator doors on my right and proceeded straight into the room where he stabbed. the deputy editor in chief with his knife in the neck the surgery is now over but the remains in critical condition the attacker was arrested shortly after the incident he has already been officially cues do of murder attempt and police are saying that it's very likely that the attack had nothing to do with politics although they haven't ruled it out just yet when the man was being questioned he claims he has had a telepathic connection with that. for years the radio station itself has released what appears to be a diary of the attack where he described how. it was telepathically stalking him which could prove that the police were actually right here no political motivation

perhaps the man was just mentally ill despite this western media outlets have begun drawn parallels with other crimes against journalists in russia that appear to have had political motivation they're making lists to what they're calling a crackdown on and vesta gate of an independent reporting and russia although many people here including the employees of the radio station itself house called on everyone to wait for the end of the investigation. all british citizens who went to fight with islamic state in syria and iraq should be killed blunt statement came from the u.k. the international development minister in a radio interview this is how it justified his point of view. they believe in an extremely hateful doctrine which involves killing themselves killing others and trying to use violence and brutality to create an eighth century seventh century state so i'm afraid we have to be serious about the fact these people are serious.

and unfortunately any way of dealing with them will be in almost every case to kill now stu his remarks sparked a wave of criticism online who with all the common desire agreeing that combatant should be treated according to the country's laws some fear that killing the how this would only provoke further radicalization and potentially create more martyrs and amid the backlash mr stewart published a clarification saying that he supports the idea that combat and should be treated in accordance with the law he added he just meant that i saw is a death cult which usually fights to the death. according to british authorities more than eight hundred u.k. citizens joined islamic state this controversial subject controversial comments let's discuss them in more depth now i'm joined by ben harris chairman of the conservative think tank the bow group but he's a muslim rights campaigner in chief editor at twenty one c.

gentlemen first just want to get your reaction first of all to rory stewart statement. while the sun fortunate though we have no government ministers making such. frankly reckless and jingoistic statements we have something called the rule of law and due process and if the government wants to introduce some kind of death penalty under the criminal justice system with. within the frame of. the process and the rule of law then they should try and do it you know in the conventional way i'm going through the problem and not you know seeking to apparently essentially what is maybe maybe happening is extra do just full killings of its own citizens eventually. ben what's your reaction. well i'm surprised this is got so much attention because a week ago michael farland made it very clear that if you are british and you

decide to pursue the roots of jihad and travel to violence you will be killed. i don't think it is in any way inconsistent with laws and practices or what government policy has been rory stewart was talking specifically i believe and i think he has clarified about combatants in the region i evos that are really isis held areas and of course our main mode of interaction with those combatants that are held areas is is through military engagement usually bombing from the air and so it is very likely they will be killed i think when it comes to jihadists in the united kingdom they should for. very sturdy process but not death yet i think that's the key point you picked up on there that it wasn't really clear from rory stewart statement whether he was talking about a combat scenario or not any kind it was a sweeping statement that made it sound like they should all just be killed so just

to clarify you say they need to be brought back and presumably every single one has to go on trial. no i wouldn't say they need to be brought back at all i'm talking about the approximately estimated twenty three thousand jihadists in the u.k. i'm saying that they should be prosecuted and jailed what i think rory stewart was talking about michael fallon was talking about combatants in the region of the levant i.e. those people from the u.k. and other countries that have traveled to isis held areas to support the isis viewpoint and strategy and i think not only the practice should be to kill those people but that is the practice that has been in place for a long time these are people who pose a real threats not just to british people in fact not really to british people but more to the peace in the region and the united kingdom is committed to

destroying isis with the united states and russia as major actors as well and that is absolutely a strategy that i think almost everyone in great britain feels we should continue to pursue film on what are the actual realistic prospects of dealing radicalizing jihadists which is what some people believe should be done that they should be brought back and given an opportunity to return to some kind of normal life wouldn't they have to just be locked up for the rest of their natural lives. while the context of these statements and the main by defense secretary michael phelan are indeed of people who are. trying to come back here some of them are fleeing. max hill q.c. the government's. independent review of terrorism legislation recently said quite the opposite to what the government is saying that is that people who have been brainwashed to bought into the isis propaganda and they've gone there and then

they've seen the reality for themselves those people who are trying to come back we shouldn't be blocking them and we should be you know. allowing them to to reintegrate back to society of course if they commit a crime. you know they should they should face. the criminal justice system which has more than enough you know laws and measures that have been around for hundreds of years and i think the problem occurs when you know everyone agrees that you know ice is bad and somebody's killing innocent people and all that kind of stuff is bad that's that's not the issue here issue is how do you know somebody who has gone there has gone there for the purposes of supporting the ruling classes and this so-called hateful ideology people who. couldn't glean from the clip you just played of mr sharon is that he's woefully unaware of the actual reasons and actual causes us to why people go out to isis it's not they're not you know advertising

here you come over here and you know we can hate britain together their whole propaganda message is it's a false message but their whole propaganda message is you know you're not welcome in britain you you know if you come here you'll be welcome here. to treat that type of person who's bought into that narrative whose face you know alienation or he has resentment towards wired so if you're a bit slow to get ben's reaction to this incident and raise an interesting point the nuance of you know motive whether these people were intending to go out there to kill or not i mean the you know the criminal law in the u.k. is based based you know fundamentally on the intention of the perpetrator does not have to be taken into account. well criminal law in the united kingdom does not apply in the levant in syria or in iraq. where we are facing these people in those regions they are enemy combatants and i think it was necessarily wrong to accept those people back into the united kingdom because

of course they pose a very severe threats to the u.k. itself but where i differ from a lot of people on the broadly conservative spectrum. is that i don't think that islam is an inherently bad thing i don't think that religious freedom is a bad thing but i do think that the british government needs to send a very clear signal to people that if you go out and join isis if you leave the united kingdom and join up with isis you will be killed what's the situation what's your approach ben if these people surrender or in a combat scenario they surrender and they say i want to trial i want to go back home. if they surrender that i think they can be held in the region and not killed but i don't think they should be allowed back into the united kingdom. selman in terms of we have. migrant processing camps we have

a number of migrant processing camps in the region and i see no reason why those that were fighting for isis and surrendered can't be held in a in a similar type of camp but i would absolutely whether these people u.k. citizens or not and i think the majority of people in this country would strongly oppose ever allowing them back into the united kingdom go ahead sam. i think again the issue isn't people who are clearly have clearly demonstrated to be you know involved in fighting or doing some illegal activity issue is that how do you know who is a fighter and who isn't and to presume that everyone who's bought into the false propaganda of isis and going out there thinking that they're you know going into some kind of you to. to presume that kind of person as an enemy combatant is is a quick way to go no way because you're right in criminal justice doesn't system doesn't apply in the levant but international law does the new we can't just simply treat it as unfortunately we and our allies have been doing it can't just be

treating everyone you know in the crosshairs of. a bomber from hundreds of thousands of feet in the air as some kind of enemy combatant we've we've seen in iraq for example the recent us in mosul recent history by the us they've admitted to killing up to a thousand people in a single strike now you can't differentiate in that scenario between a combat of a. very different hold on your you know that's a completely different point what you're talking about is the accidental bombing of civilians and that's not what we're talking about all we're talking about people who intentionally left the united kingdom with the wish to join up with isis now you're trying to infantilize those people and say well they didn't know what they were doing for the very very large majority of these purple they were really something have been any physicians going to any other adults. about what are they

to be. going to as a result some level rose them towards the predominantly adult males. and they have taken a decision to go out and fight for a death colds and i would argue and most people in this country would argue that they must be made to pay the penalty for that so i think nobody is arguing you keep talking about it and i think we know what you want to hear or what you're assuming is. when you're talking about international law you are suggesting that britain is in some way not following international law whereas britain is absolutely following international law in no way does international law preclude us. fighting the from fighting the vicious death cult of isis in the levant and that's what we're doing some what about the issue of if some of these people actually are put on trial and go to prison isn't there another problem that raises itself then because you know jailing extremists is pretty pretty fertile territory for spreading their ideology

as we've seen in the past so the problem doesn't stop there does it. these aren't simple you know one word solution problems these are complicated complex issues where different rights are at play here the real discomfort that many have felt in the wake of mr steele's comments is that regardless of if you hate the actual person he's talking about if we allow our governments to to increase the amount of. arbitrary powers they have to flee extradition lee kill certain citizens of our own country even though the commit a crime we even though they've done something you know scary or whatever they happen to be the bogeyman of the day history has shown that when governments get that taste of that kind of power it's only a matter of time before it's applied on you know the they're the enemy combatant so to speak or the bogeyman of tomorrow i would ask.