these are our families our fields this is where this will be my my role in the next four years now mr oakley i know you rely on volunteers but you also have to work with local actors including local governments and i may be too pessimistic but it's a common view here in moscow that the so-called international community has no problem coming together to create problems like the ones we observe in the middle east or north africa but it's very very rarely joins hands in order to solve the am i being too negative. if i look. of the international community and the government to fix the problem that are causing so many suffering of course there is nothing to be optimistic but if you look of the capacity of your money to reach human beings to. other human beings and. to the governments to improve the. doom.

of those in need. of those. especially in the war zone those are leading the consequences of climate change as an example but mr olcott i assume that this is what you have been doing in your capacity. while working in many positions for the italian red cross at a time when your country was facing the influx of challenges of refugees from multiple wars and demand the region and that it was a challenge that italy by and large had to face on its own didn't dot experience undermined your face in solidarity in. this period in this year of course is that we found a lot of solidarity of the beginning but then because of the lack of vision of our of our e.u. policy this created the perfect environment to make the. us.

to increase because originally d.c. wasn't up and they didn't up any immediately and. there was a lot of solidarity then when the discussion come to better distribute to relocate the people and we found that there was this kind of the wall where. this has created this. phenomenon of russ's itself or be about the if this didn't happen the. maybe we couldn't work a bit better you know what communities up in it for a very long time but to mr ok and to be fair. hasn't been created out of nowhere i mean if you look at the number of refugees around the world it increased by seventy percent in the last and it take it so if you only focus on response do you really thing you can. see any results coming up here after because it seems that even if you try to how those in need there will always be more and

more significantly more people coming. for how to later on i fully agree with you on the spot about this is not this is. this is the failure of the lack of vision of the of the international community because of course it's not about to take care of it's even about to fix the causes of migration if i think when i started to be a volunteer in ninety eight at that time we were receiving in italy the migrants. coming from the horn of africa thirty years later we are still receiving people coming from the same zone and not seeing us changed so this is a complete failure of the international community we should put. far from from the disposition. yeah look if the government didn't make any mistake i'm telling you that this is collective responsibility that we don't have to focus when we when we

talk about. this kind of phenomena it's something that. involve the international community not only a single county then in this single country we have to advocate for the for the international community it's too general of a term because as you know or the western law after it's in iraq or in libya and syria so let's be more specific here do you see the western i fully understand your point and i would try to answer the best i can. when any talk i don't want to be naive and i'm not. this is part of my in the detention center really out to alleviate the softness of these people and this is this is the point i'm not i'm not pointing anyone please i'm i'm telling that there is a common responsibility when we talk about only one county i mean on the right side of the truck these are mistakes starter i think that we have to see that we have to

discuss how to improve our capacity to alleviate this offer and some of the human being or tools to avoid what causes so for instance to the human beings well mr rock i fully agree with you my point was that as you consider possible ways of dealing with the current crisis you he should also be aware of the same consequences if you apply the same methods in the future that's that's my only point i think there again there is a pattern of intervention and leaving out the consequences for the people on the ground that this is something that surely has to be remedied and i know that you also have actually a solution for that you are in favor of creating these so-called illegal groups particularly out of libya which you believe would be critical for. closing this rainy and human smuggling hot highway why do you think this idea is so far met with so little enthusiasm from the countries involved look.

even more clear and more tough. as a president of the talent of crossing the gauging my government on this just to be very clear because of course i talk about legal rules by they also said that this is a very important good occasion for for the government or for the italian government and for the e.u. to engage the libyan authorities to do sign of the geneva convention and improve the capacity to protect the life of those the needs of those that. are fleeing the violence and war and this could be a good sign because in my experience of iran the libyan authorities was to sign an agreement about all this not about human rights and about the protection of their dignity or to subscribe to the geneva convention of the fifty one. and this is something that. isn't a question that my my government as

a president of the italian the across the and i spoke out very very clearly and of course if there is someone who is fleeing violence of course i speak about. a call for a legal route because they must be protected this is my duty from the day on which i took the office to the. president of the international federation everywhere i have the opportunity to speak out on beyond four of those they cannot the most vulnerable it's and this is will be my need and we will meet i hope in the future and you will see that. i don't mean any kind of discount to anyone mr speaking about the the illegal given the and control power of militia in libya and the fact that there already many thousands if not millions of migrants and refugee. from all over africa gathered in doc country many of them without proper documentation. why do you believe that the establishment of several processing centers is going to

change anything imaginable way look technically talking. is a country in war so in these moments who have a free cannot be. brought big. libya so this is. a point on my point made point of view you are talking about the media shows that the role of the media shows this is not my world or maybe or is about the day the level of human suffering and the convention and talking about the protection of the people is fleeing the country. again that i think that everyone in this moment in a country war is keeping or cannot be brought in that count so this was the point that they raised out several times i. honestly cannot argue about to the media shows like that because i am not aware i'll bow to always making the violence we

know only that there is a lot of violence in this country but i know and this is we have because we have to prove and the evidence is the volunteers of the car you have across yesterday i received twenty six body of a women that died during crossing the media to run and this is not set the ball on a set of what we've done we don't want to see any more bodies of people of people sweeping our country in war. on the italian coast well mr rocca we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. with the climate larry listen to the one person.

who ignore middle of the room sick. to lose. all. of our. health. care. policy the. actual motions all the food. both.

are. welcome back to worlds apart with francesca rucka president of the international federation of the right cross and the red crescent society mr rocca just before the break we touched upon the issue of how the european countries should process people from africa or the middle east who are knocking on their doors and i'm going to ask you about the situation in myanmar later on in the program but i want to use it as a point of comparison because one of the sticking points in the myanmar situation is the proof of origin the demand by the myanmar government dead. the refugees. provide some sort of documentation to prove that they indeed come from the state

i wonder how do you think the western governments should deal with the african and middle east and migration do you think they should allow anybody in even with or without documents and if that's the case how would you down ensure the bride of asylum is respected but not abused. look this is. you haven't you and she are for these these is not something you have to ask for me every place i mean need i don't ask and i got home i got my i'm sorry for jesus we all really know that in this moment in cox but there are six hundred thousand desperate people was stranded. in a sea of six hundred thousand people but without electricity without water without proper assistance and this is our this is our role and that we are trying to provide to rite aid to your question should be. directed to the to the

head though you ensure that maybe is more competent than me on and saying on this question for me you know only that there are disparate people in need then and this is what they what they see in these people are telling us that these freeing violence then it's not me i'm not an investigator or a stop to either read out or it is to verify if you store or not but we have a lot of disparate issue and we see a lot of consequences from violence and we have to protect these people and this is what we are trying to do there all of the money time and these not all of the states we take care of the people this is. our role and then there are the government that set up policies and it's up to us to engage them to verify if the policies are not organ. of the people but we protect and we try to give dignity to issue my beings we don't we don't make the difference between with jews are they going to make my grandson alone but mr ok you are one of the very few organizations with the practical experience on the ground because the governments when they make

policies than not very well informed in my if least in my experience about what is actually happening on the ground in libya in syria an inch yearly on your volunteers would actually no doubt that that's why i think that you know some sort of expertise of from your side would be very welcome don't you think so yes of course of and when we. we provide you all the information that we have about the their life condition then there's a separation the these people these people are living in but we have not we don't make politics that look. because when we talk about our role in this. operation the it's very it's very daily we don't want to be involved in some political issue you know we know that there are six hundred thousand people of the three in my and i am are arriving in bangladesh and. to try to take care of them it's up to our movement of course to open a dialogue to verify if it's possible that they come back safe in their houses.

which they are fleeing but this is this is our all there is then you come there to sponsor a bit of the international community don't put on the issue that they are there it's kind of responsibility which there is not let me ask you one more question about this intersection between politics and humanitarian is because the syrian war in particular has dramatically changed the humanitarian field it gave rise to many organizations which combine humanitarian activities with political or even geo political activism. talents would be one of them but there are many similarities ations originating in turkey even in russia and i want to ask you what do you think about these kind of partisan humanitarian is more humanitarian pile of partisanship or whatever you call it does it make your work on the ground easier or harder. become harder because a. this is

a very she uses sure and i think you that you raise this because. of the your money that he is putting a risk the life of the volunteers and you money to give you money that you're next on the field and the humanitarian action that would should never politicize look i would. i want to answer i want to answer you with a very simple towards to kill for a fairly old brother so this is the motto that they're going to our founders at least and i did so for you know more than one hundred fifty years ago so after a very terrible bout there because the. war of the independence in italy was a really a terrible war and tens of thousands were lying on the ground with the table suffering and they were. strong that they were enemies but the ladies also for you know the women of the spiders and you know they said to all brothers because when a people is suffering and is not is not belong anymore to

a party you. must see as a human being. brothers this is the way in which you neutrality because you are not taking by luck to you care of everyone now the syrian conflict has been now somewhat overtaken in the media by the refugee crisis in myanmar you alluded to it a couple of times already and it's be puzzling to me because the decision in myanmar has been deteriorating not just for years but for decades and all of a sudden everybody woke up to it even though it was pretty evident where it was going for quite some time i know you visited the area i think you visited bangladesh last month what impression did it make on you. look it was that maybe there was a situation that i.e. a ever seen in my humanitarian experience. because six hundred thousand people in five weeks. i think know

no one is this be and she's a level of desperation a was in was immense. when i well when. i was really good friday i was. without a enough. was to explain the level of suffering of the children thousands of children without parents without their relatives and. this is something that shouldn't up and to anyone i visited syria. i've been in god's eye view that's all you can imagine the level of suffering that i've seen in my experience the ninety after the quake in georgia i've been in many places but what they've seen in that context and of course you said this is and i agree with you the problem is that we say that this is not the olympic games of the desperation unfortunately

this is something that up and every day and this is the crisis but this doesn't mean that as you money we are not present everywhere there is a need because we are still in syria because we saw the problem is not about the humanitarian the problem is maybe and i maybe i understand even the reason why the media i'm not following you always follow we are still in the know what he's talking about we are in the horn of africa no one is talking anymore about on an obvious only if you will say when three hundred people died while we spend the. day and so i was talking about. the one single there was a parka in europe which another kind of very strange competition so this is something that again the responsibility is not of the humanitarian you money in silence are doing their part that when their request we are ready to world idea formation to the media but then it's up to the media to cover the crisis it's not

up to us well mr ok let me put one final question and i don't know if it's good or not i don't want to sound too cynical but this situation in myanmar reminds me a little bit of the situation with the refugees in your native country in italy when everybody was agreeing on decided that the refugees and migrants had to be treated humanely but there were very few. actuaries who were eager to come for very time actually shared the burden do you think that is a valid comparison maybe maybe maybe let me tell you even an even war study goes easily. maybe we have more reporting it is. then bangladesh or which every year phase a variable not two of the faster floods and. only in this year of the phase the low and now to another well disaster and but they see a lot of silly that in my glacial for us we agree with you. this should be more of

. story that it is coming from from my father either counties but this is the this is this is the reality on the ground and. look i'm very proud about what i've seen about the role that the bangladesh progress and the british were in care and the bangladesh people. doing it because there is a level of silly they i meant a little silly daddy and so we're in the in the part of the war this very stage but in the part of the war where they have more difficulties you find mostly they think they need to like this part of the world well and they're ok so you have to land on the positive note but i still hold that the amount of solidarity would somehow catch up with the extent of needs present there on the ground anyway we have to leave it there i really appreciate you being with us today and job viewers please share your comments out twitter facebook and youtube pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.

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