welcome to worlds apart the vast bulk of international crises has created a situation in which humanitarian commitments increasingly look more like utopian ideals legal obligations faced with meager budgets and the need to help more and more people it's easier to just look the other way or push the problem to a neighbor what does it take not too well to discuss that i'm now joined by francesca rocket the newly elected president of the international federation of the red cross and red crescent societies well mr olcott thank you very much for your time and congratulations on the election thank you thank you very much it's probably the worst time to be in charge of the i f r c given both the growing scope of humanitarian needs and the man's challenge of securing the funding to meet them why would you even want these kind of job but let me clarify for us

all that this is not our job. and i am a volunteer i'm not paid for my position i've been a volunteer and in my national society for many years this is a this is a passion for fashion for humanity try to improve. the way in which we live together and for me this is my always my priority and i having the owner in there is for somebody to do the most important most relevant or going to your money door it's really well mr rocca because it's a volunteering effort how do you keep your faith in what you're doing alive seeing the misery the violence the suffering proliferated to an extent they have been for the past decade or so yet but for for us this is. a mission i am not the only one we have seventeen people i've decided to dedicate your life to to set of humanity.

over your nine hour legacy oh of course. it's a question to sacrifice part of our work time and maybe the first. prize and these are our families our friends but this is why we have decided to to serve in our organization and in the red cross red crescent. volunteers base for as the volunteers out of the core of our action the local level and i will do my best to bring the volunteers voice. please of the ward because this is where this will be my my role in the next four years now mr ok i know you rely on volunteers but you also have to work with local actors including local governments and i may be cheapest a mistake but it's a common view here in moscow that the so-called international community has no problem coming together to create problems like the ones we observe in the middle east or north africa but it's very very rarely joins hands in order to solve the am

i being too negative. if i look at the capacity. of the international community and the hormones to fix the problems that are causing so many suffering of course there is nothing to be optimistic but if i look of the capacity of you money to each human beings to do. to believe in empathy to other human beings in pain. every day so the problem is that we have to speak up we have to do to clarify and to call to governments to improve the. doom. of those in need to protect the life of those. risk especially in the war zone those are leading the consequences of climate change as an example but mr olcott i assume that this is what you have been doing in your capacity. while working in many. for the italian red cross at

a time when your country was facing the influx of challenges of refugees from multiple wars and demand the region and that was a challenge that italy by and large had to face on its own didn't dot experience undermined your faith in solidarity in. this period that i had in this year of course that we found a lot of solidarity of the beginning but then because the lack of vision of our of our policies created the perfect environment to make the xenophobia and the rushes to increase because originally this was an option that didn't up any immediately and. there was a lot of solidarity then when the discussion come to better distribute to relocate the people and we found that there was this kind of the world where.

these us created these. phenomena of. if they didn't up and. maybe we couldn't work a bit better you know what communities up in it for a very long time but to mr ok and to be fair. hasn't been created out of nowhere i mean if you look at the number of refugees around the world it increased by seventy percent in the last than a decade so if you only focus on response do you really thing you can. see any result coming up here after because it seems that even if you try to how those in need there will always be more and more significantly more people coming. for how to later on i fully agree with you on the spot about this is not this is. this is the. vision of the of the international community. of course is not

about to take care of and about to fix the causes of migration yes i think when i started to be a volunteer in ninety eight. we were receiving in italy the migrants. coming from the horn of africa thirty years later we are still receiving people coming from the same zone and not seeing us changed so this is a complete failure of the international community we should put. fire from from the disposition of the people so the problem for us as humans i don't envision is to take care of the people but when you are confronting the communities you have to explain the reason why even about the failure of the politics of the failure of the policies that has been set up to avoid the people flee their homes and their houses because no one that is escaping most of europe is to do it or no one is to try to cross the mediterranean now with these rubber boats and i see that many of the

people the syrians are not happy to do to escape from their country they were not migrants before the war saw this is that this is their wages that we have to do us to ourself and our governments and politicians but mr ok it sounds as if you're asking the ordinary people to clear out of damascus the politicians have created which is fair but only to a certain extent the u.n. high commissioner for refugees philippa grandy an italian like yourself recently spoke before the security council urgently calling for the need and what he called cataclysmic conflicts to be dr mass displacement and it's interesting because italy was a very active participant in both the iraqi and the libyan interventions it also played on the side of the west in the syrian conflict i appreciate you're called the appeal to the ordinary people i also appreciate so many italian humanitarians

taking on the international leadership roles but do you think dr may change the view of the political elite in italy on the advise ability of military intervention . yeah look this is something that we did and we tried and. politics is not so different from the there rest of the war so the problem is that . our party these politicians sometimes are looking for today and then. for the future i'm not selling that. the government didn't make any mistake i'm telling you that this is the responsibility that we don't have to focus when we when we talk about. these kind of phenomena it's something that. involve the international community not only a single county then in this single country we have to advocate for to stop

the causes of migration on the and to our government and our communities understand that we have we have to fix that because of migration talking about immigration just on his own as an example mr rock i don't want to be too argumentative here but when you talk about the international community it's too general of a time because as you know perhaps russia or china wasn't dot and c.z. asked the american or the western lot after it's in iraq or he in libya and syria so let's be more specific here do you see the west and i fully understand your point and i would try to answer the best they can. when any talk i don't want to be naive and i'm not that if i can assure you when we talk about the international community of course we are talking about. the count trees that have the power and many of the causes and this is something that

a lot of countries so it's up to them to discuss i mean you money have to take care of people and when i call. and when they could too. of the people we need this is part of my my duty is but then at the same time i do advocate and to call for action so i will calm any initiative that brings to the dialogue or being too new policies included the rush through the usa this is i don't make anything of this variances on these aspect because when that when the people is suffering any person involved in the international dialogue and is an international actor is responsible for the for the suffering is causing the is lack of dialogue to use lack of action in fixing the causes of of migration well some may be more responsible than others to be honest i don't think the people are. suffering always is stuck in the detention center in libya is one that if there are

thirty percent of the responsibilities of coming from one country to seventy one or the seventy percent is coming from another i think that both parties must see and discuss how to alleviate the fs offers of these people and this is this is the point i'm not i'm not pointing anyone please i am i am telling that there is a common responsibility when we talk about only one county i mean on the right side of the truck this is these are mistakes started i think that we have to see that we have to discuss how to improve our capacity to alleviate this offer and solve the human being or to avoid the what causes so for instance to the human beings well mr i fully agree with you my point was that as you consider possible ways of dealing with the current crisis you he should also be aware of the same consequences if you apply the same methods in the future that's that's my only point i think there and then there is

a pattern of intervention and leaving out the consequences for the people on the ground that this is something that surely has to be remedied and i know that you also have actually a solution for that you are in favor of create. these so-called illegal groups particularly out of libya which you believe would be critical for closing this rainy and human smuggling how highway why do you think this idea is so far met with so little enthusiasm from the countries involved look. even more clear and more tough gauging or as a president of the italian because you know gauging my government on this just to be very clear because of course i talk about legal rules i've also said that this is a very important a good location for for the government or for the italian government and for the e.u. to engage the libyan authorities to do sign of the geneva convention and improve the capacity to protect the life of those the needs of those. that are fleeing the

violence and war and this could be a good sign because in my experience there on the libyan authorities was to sign an agreement about all this not about human rights and about the protection of the dignity or to subscribe to the geneva convention of the fifty one about jesus and this is something that. isn't a question that my my government as a president of the across the and i spoke out very very clearly and of course if there is someone who is fleeing violence of course i speak about. a call for a legal route because they must be protected this is my duty from the day which i took the office to the. president of the international federation everywhere we have the opportunity to speak out on beyond for they cannot the most vulnerable it's and this is will be my need and we will meet i hope in the future and you will

see that. i don't mean any kind of discount to anyone mr speaking about the the legal route given the and control tower also. in libya and the fact that they are already many thousands if not millions of migrants and refugees from all over africa gathered in dot country many of them without proper documentation. why do you believe that these stablish one of several processing centers is going to change anything imaginable way. talking. is a country in war so in this moment whoever. can not be. brought big. so this is. my point my point of view you are talking about the militias of the role of the media show this is not my world i'm a war is about the level of human suffering and. i'm. talking about the

protection of the people who sling the county. again i think that everyone in this moment in a country war is escaping or cannot be brought in that count so this was the point that they raised out several times i. honestly i could not argue about to the militias because. i'm not aware i'll bow to always making the violence we know only that there is a lot of violence in this country but i know and this is we have because we have the proof and the evidence is the volunteers of the car you have across yesterday i received twenty six by the. women that died during crossing that we need to run and this is unacceptable and i said we don't we don't want to see any more bodies of people who are currently in war.