arise from sunday night's iran iraq north quake centered near the city of a lab where in the one thousand nine hundred same deployed u.s. chemical weapons on thousands of kurdish civilians coming up in a show. i can't breathe we speak to award winning journalist and author mattei maybe about police brutality journalistic racism and the killing that started an international black lives matter movement and to the world's biggest threats to free speech really come from government or from private u.s. multibillion dollar tech giants we speak to internet browser pioneer gone gone catch the last from this week's political penalty shootout the off side foreign minister crying fake of a russian interference while his own prime minister why. all this and more coming up in today's going underground but first for you gave me the most pressing issue today is the near total global power of a lot of near putin while arguably it's really caught twenty three and bricks it thousands upon thousands meanwhile were killed or injured in the earthquake

centered on the iraqi city of the lovejoy on sunday night and while iraq was notoriously invaded by labor party ordered british troops in twenty three and neighboring iran has been destabilized by british governments for decades the name of love ger is synonymous with something else the largest chemical attack on civilians since the first world war the massacre which through tragic irony was used by mainstream t.v. networks to galvanize nato nations support for yet more bombing of iraq forty five minutes saddam hussein's planes bombarded a lot with some of the most toxic agents known to science nerve gases an old fashioned mustard gas when i arrived there was still dead people everywhere as you'd expect the b.b.c. in twenty or three didn't find time to report on something even the u.s. new york times had to concede ten years later during the one nine hundred eighty saddam hussein developed robust chemical weapons. programs with extensive foreign

support rockets suitable nerve agent were provided by egypt and italy tens of thousands of artillery shells shipped to iraq from europe to be filled with mustard agent and western built production lines were of american design. as mr hussein's chemical munitions stockpile grew his forces use these weapons repeatedly including against iranian troops and iraqi civilians yes when it comes to the use of chemical weapons in the middle east it was mrs thatcher's conservative government and ronald reagan's republicans that catalyzed w m d slaughter amidst the debut of sunday's earthquake it may be of little consolation to survive as well because of british labor and can policy on iraq has been a wants icon to breathe the killing that started the movement he jots a war that began with the killing of father of six eric garner in new york the movement that now campaigns from toronto london england to melbourne from new jersey that thanks so much for coming back on the show so why is eric gone as story

arguably so emblematic of what's wrong in the usa right now i think it's a perfect example of everything that's wrong with modern american policing because it was. particularly pointed example of what goes wrong when you use the statistics based approach that most american police departments use and they target my are criminals more. major criminals. terrorists are a perfect example of that also this case was incredibly important because it was really the first in the twitter rates to really capture the imagination of the entire country because it was all captured on video. and it helped ignite a movement around the country that was fueled by subsequent cases that were also captured captured on video later that year like michael brown you're right. about you know others in the past twenty four hours there's been a. island yet another silent march here in london for the deaths in the grand fell

tower fire which has raised the idea of gentrification in the british media at least for a little while your story begins with a context of gentrification garbage dumps and michael bloomberg cigarette tax. why. well so eric garner was his job was he sold untaxed cigarettes illegally on the street and that was a job that he could no had had not mayor bloomberg raised taxes on cigarettes to help pay for the clean up of new york city after night all over it and basically what they did is instead of raising taxes on the recession for people who could pay the taxes what they did is they created the most onerous consumption tax that america. made it so that essentially a dip him about thirteen or fourteen dollars a pack to buy a. pack smokes in new york city so urquhart was doing with sue sending you

will doubtlessly virginia but cigarettes for about five dollars of bringing them back up to new york and basically splitting the difference and selling them on street market it was an arbitrage just like any returns you're we do and that's why this industry said this was just a little you know less biscuit and this one actually made money on like say the arbitrage used by lehman about this right exactly exactly yes low so simple tain easy tell the story of the new york police department whistleblower pead drew serrano who seemed to be recording what sounded like an ad for the apartheid law enforcement officers tell me about the record it. so the new york city police department pioneered a program that was called stop and frisk or stop question and frisk which was really the cornerstone of what we call broken windows policing here in america and the idea behind that policy is if you crack down on the little stuff like people

jumping turnstiles or running the wrong way down a sidewalk or jumping out of an open container it's no mention really real crime will go down and the reason for that is that people will think twice about going outside their homes with a gun if they think they can be arrested for something stupid like jumping a turnstile but in order to affect the policy what cities like new york at the do is stop hundreds of thousands of people a year usually without cause and it was entirely in black and hispanic neighborhoods and many many cops particularly minority glee's officers object it's not going to do this. and one of them is this guy peter serrano who is a native of north rocks. and what he found out when he started to record his bosses surreptitiously is they were telling him things openly like i have no problem telling you i want you to stop milk blacks age fourteen or twenty one i want you to stop the right people and those recordings became is your man all in

a lawsuit to help the overturn some of these policies and and you do a combatives of green cross cluster racial assumptions and say don't let trump's wall. we're yes exactly i mean the the root of these. double trumps appeal and the root of the appeal of his wall theory was based on the idea that a lot of people in sort of flyover country america have specials are white middle americans what used to call the silent majority in this country is their idea that people who other cultures and other races are inherently more criminal than they are therefore it makes as the bill the walls to keep all those terrible people out similarly to the policies that were employed in cities like new york city stopping hundreds of thousands of black and hispanic people for especially in india that those who are more like work as you could not have the one policy without white

voters believing. in the underlying logic of those policies again which is that stopping black and hispanic males makes sense because that's where you're going to likely find your criminals the british viewers might see echoes of that we had the head of the police union here saying they sacked twenty thousand police officers but they have this goal driven really broken windows strategy but you had another. dimension to this because of u.s. supreme court and earl warren on the supreme court acting on police abuse. related yeah exactly the foundation for of those stop and frisk broken windows policy in america goes all the way back to the late sixty's. in a case called the will have terry where the supreme court basically ruled that police could stop and then also search by patting people down anybody they wanted to have a had a quote unquote articulable suspicion that

a crime was about to be committed know what that did is that it put the whole notion of probable cause in the minds of the police the police officers it was a completely subjective thing and the. problem with these policies with these statistics because policies with the kind of things that resulted from that case is that it creates an enormous number of new contacts between police and the population and very many of them are hostile and that's why you are a large percentage of the result of deaths or serious injuries because otherwise police and the population may not be interacting at all unless they see a crime being committed but if there are mass stopping people for little to no reason then you're going to have more of these incidents all sorts of bizarre strategies are now being talked about here in britain especially of a knife crime tell me about the bizarre incentivising that went on to marry a cuomo the. incentivised signature izing race.

well it's a whole story we know we have obviously have all. huge problem in this country with mass incarceration and one of the reasons for that ironically is that there's a whole set of bizarre political incentives to build prisons in the states again law enforcement in america is not and is not a federal matter it's a state and local matter and so one of them is what happens in states like california new york is that governors will tend to reward. local officials that assemblyman or city councilmen by placing prisons in their districts because that's a way to provide jobs that provide peace construction contracts and all you need to keep that business flowing is the people so there's as there's a pretty girl like mario cuomo when you're in new york but the united states and

britain are ist and lead off perhaps as drugs of choice scrap and that our laws time the most infamous rule we call the one hundred one laws where. you sold crack was about one hundred times as long to quickly. as a person would get for selling powdered cocaine which was a more popular drug among upscale white people so if you sell the street drug you've got a long and difficult sentence if you sold the u.s. says social club drug you got another sense of tyrolese so there's always been this discrepancy in the american criminal justice system but especially when it comes to drugs which are just a tool really to go after almost everybody because almost everybody at some point in their lives uses illegal drugs and if you want to selectively enforce those laws that's it's a incredible tool to have at your disposal you've lived in russia and i know we want to talk about this book but i want to be russia comes into this book in the

sense that the russia story here it's to raise a may the british prime minister has been echoing your robot or this special counsel. about russia to publicize the away from more information revealed about the killer of eric gunter yet though the russia story really dominated the headlines here for the last year or so. when when news finally leaked out that the police officer in the case daniel peddle aoe had an extensive record of abuse complaints that was leaked to a newspaper here to us a year and new york there was this you know news about it all here in america because. as i noted in the book it came out basically on the same day that there was an explosive series of hearings involving james komi and congress of russia story there's a story in america the dull trumpet the russians if you want to get anything pissed of the news these days it has to involve one of those two factors for the most part

and so ironically you know when when the guard has happened and the michael brown case happened ferguson happened a lot of people thought this was going to be the beginning of a. if you're going to change in this country but the opposite is turned out to be true that diaby thank you. thank you so much after the break who is the real enemy of online free speech governments or private u.s. tech giants we speak to the co-founder of o'brien developing a web browser about why we need more ethical technology and trumping the headlines the wickedly because you let a lot to lift the lid on his own doubts all the civil coming over but two of going underground.

here's what people have been saying about redacted in the night with the sixty's full on austin the only show i go out of my way to find you know really what it is that really packs a punch oh yeah it is the john oliver of r t america is doing the same we are apparently better than blue things but i see people you've never heard of love back to the night president of the world bank patzers doesn't really mean it seriously send us an e-mail. and. i would see him you don't have any protection for whistleblowers at all if you do half of. what was on thank the public sector as well as in the private sector that information would have to being how it can be made public and that actually puts pressure on the parliament to become more on this. and. that business in favor off the public.

welcome back with me to go do something weeks papers now is libido big. for the liberal democrats in the week of the death of the legendary co-author of manufacturing descended herman who dissected the propaganda model of nato nation media we shan't be mentioning yemen we shall be mentioning the british backed bombing of a given. me fifteen thousand scientists twenty three saying the earth is about to end we're going to mention this yes we are going to mention this quite relevant when it comes to propaganda this is a leaf apparently by the kensington chelsea and for them conservatives not a fake says it is the richest area on earth one of the riches areas or one of the richest areas anath and it's a survey so far so good but what about the first question please circle the number which represents how important to you and your family each of the following local issues are not for not important at all ten very important was the first question

the tragedy of brand full tower and help for the families affected and the wider community this has been highlighted and sent in by a local resident be one of the worst atrocities in social housing in this country eighty dead we don't know the full number that's the estimate so people would seriously say eighty people died recently nearby i don't care eikenberry implement why they've put it in but it might be a little bit tactless from the second question is affordable housing and as far as i know about a third of the money which has been raised from the public has actually been distributed to these people so that out of ten for wanting to discuss it probably a bit of a north out of ten for our you've done it in fairness if you're very rich do you really care about the poor let's just go into this next story by our esteemed foreign secretary who retains his job at the time or brokers to be unsinkable boris johnson it seems reuters report no evidence of russian interference in british votes that's what u.k. foreign secretary said this is a kremlin t.v.

what do you mean everyone says russia in that case boris is working for minutes well because when he was asked whether the russians had played any part in british elections his quote and i will read it to you after and no. i haven't seen any evidence not a sausage so far as i know they have played no role not a source or what about the cia f.b.i. pompei or russia change bricks they have bagels not sausages as completely different partners are that end of story which says completely the opposite is leaders said something completely the opposite is the wonderful nature of the goal of government we've got at the moment the guardian reports to reason make use is russia of interfering in the elections and fake news sausage in other words more than the whole whole english breakfast as far as i can tell some kind of practice no good dogs on sea says music or words again she said as he spoke out against the scale and nature of russia's actions and she says and she said this is a lot as banquet very important speech for the prime minister he said it was

threatening the international order on which we all depend it looks to me that the reason i haven't been talking afshin. but here she also says we know what you're doing i presume that's directly at lot of me uprooted from the lord mayor's banquet in the city of london we know what you're doing and certainly can say that the baras country well if they knew what the russians are doing why did they do something about it this is the other thing about it here's the other point what does boris not know that the reason a man knows boris is meant to be the factional foreign secretary i think they need to have a little bit of a cup of tea and a bit of a chant about who's right but maybe boris has to find the pocket of the kremlin to listen to his own prime minister is meeting the un secretary general today and the husband of the accused british subject imprisoned in iran let's go to more dubious leaks and information in your next story from some magazine called the atlantic which i don't think anyone takes that seriously that there's a relevant point there actually action but let's start with headlines atlanta

quotes the secret correspondence between donald trump jr and wiki leaks now this is a slightly impenetrable story it begins to suggest that wiki leaks was. invent saying donald trump jr that's the president's son to issue leaked e-mails which are damaging to his own father's campaign that's not what it was is to try to lay it on a date around the same time the julian assange who was on this show which then led to a quote in the cia dia a report saying that going underground was basically putting on top of the waiters and whether they're accusing the atlantic or not there's a really interesting subtext to this option i did some digging and it turns out that the atlantic the outlet which reported this is owned by none other than lauren powell jobs that steve jobs that his widow who is an avowed democrat so that's why it's so obscure all you can conclude presumably is that they're saying that donald

trump's own son was willing to turncoat on his father's campaign while wiki leaks was so influential that they were able to achieve that president's family i think prove that they did torn between south korean for many fractures and north korean phone when in fact it may offer a better solution than the new life for such a conspiracy theorist but you might be right there but a big thank you. well this week a nato nation mainstream media has again raised the specter of state attempting to influence not only last year's us elections but the brics it vote here in the u.k. but while perceived state adversaries like russia and china get the blame in a west rattled by economic crisis what about now arguably bigger threat to enlightenment values than cold war bogeyman what about multi billion dollar tech giants joining me now is your von tetzchner co-founder of opera and value technologies yawn welcome to going underground to google chrome used by most of

humanity i think came at number one is the browser of choice why should we be scared of using google chrome i think i mean it's important to have a choice and i actually think that everyone is using one tool it's unfortunate anyway and so we do have a choice you have a choice and you should be using my browser as an example of that product placement or product placement but i mean it's not really about product placement it's a question of i think it's good to have a choice and i think everything going through one system is a problem in some ways i'm less concerned on the browser side than on the back side right there the level of information that's being collected almost as we move around as we as we do things on the incognito mode isn't that the stop google get any donations or anything like that to be frank myself even after these huge billion dollar unprecedented fines by the european union or google for other well that's. not really saying that they're doing anything they're just and i'm just in

general thinking that assuming that your location is unknown and that you're able to do things totally i wouldn't trust it myself and we should say actually that but it does cover quite a lot of where behavior but i understand that your web browser veld isn't doing so well is it just that it's not as good as chrome or of you know all other. problems as regarding other companies producing web browsers i'm really happy. we with what we are actually achieving so we're reaching about a million users so far we just started going away and if you look at the growth rate that i've seen before it didn't go like this it went kind of like this right so there is in the use of this web presence of many people watching when not have even heard about so i mean it started with me going out there and talking about privacy. and i talked about the importance of privacy and that we shouldn't be tracked to the level that we are and we shouldn't be talking to to the level that we were and

a couple of days later for some reason google actually closed our. account advertising system which is google's revenue yes so i would which is i mean you have says it does not suspend anyone from had woods for criticizing google well an obviously they would say that and i mean do i have proof that there is a correlation no i just know that it happened a couple of days after i came in with a comment on. the collection of information and the targeting that is happening you were no longer able to advertise on the google platform. i mean your account was shut our account was shut down and there was no real explanation to this and actually i mean to the adventure they opened it took three months and they were saying things like you have to put information about an install below the download button and you have but no one just google doesn't do that but how would you describe the power of google when it comes to commercial interests and if good if i'm a small business person i've come up with some idea and google doesn't like my idea

and i don't want to sell my idea to google conversely in the advertising basement that if i want to place it almost anywhere i would normally go through their system so when they close that door that a massive problem for a small company is the twitter is just bad and say bad and this program from being able to be advertised on twitter as part of the twitter revenue model should i be frightened going underground and members of the going underground be frightened that we've been banned from doing so yeah it's a significant problem obviously from the perspective of being able to quote i mean particularly for companies like google and facebook and the like because they their ads they reach so widely right i mean twitter is one thing it's their platform right but in the case of google it's everyone's platforms because google ads are on just about every page out there so when you're blocked it's a significant problem you know you could obviously try to connect with every site directly but that's not what we think that is going to work i mean famously we saw

the breakup of the bell a.t.m. t. telephone companies in the united states in the it was eighty's and eighty's i mean do you think google will be have to have to be broken up given its i'm not really sure if that's what should be happening i have all those suggestions that i think is more important i really think that the collection of information that's happening has gone overboard it's not necessary to collect this information and i'm actually concerned it may be illegal i mean it used to be like you go to a site and you're doing something on that site and none of that information goes to the next site i'm sure google would say it's a revenue. ustream model is based on advertising the more information you can pick up from the user you can use this to help the advertisers that fund google in the first get and the point being is yes it's a lot of value in collecting information on users but that's why it tends to be regulated as well to keep private so from that perspective if again i'm going to a site and if i was getting information so you're coming to my site and i have your

information and typically that would be like you or maybe your name and address and phone number or something like that that's typically the level of information that business is what they could not go and share that with someone else but now everything that we're doing is being shared so just because there's the same providers across those different sites and obviously because of their information about our whereabouts through our mobile phones and and potentially all the technology is a again i'm concerned about the new voice technology and i love the technology is right i love technology and i love the idea of people fish in your ear and being able to understand what everyone says but i hate the idea of it being on potentially all the time and listening to everything that you say so i think you have to look at how what information is being collected and how it's being used to how we're going to get these changes made in these concerns. upheld in any kind of . any kind of way i mean these are massive companies i think this is a case of regulation and i think basically we have some regulation that is maybe not being followed up on and maybe we need some more relieving regulation is going

to work i'm pretty certain it would and i also think that these companies they don't want to be seen as the bad guys so i'm hoping that with with a little bit of push from the government so they would say ok we want to live in a society where we're not being dragged in the way that we are currently and that's something we want to fixing to do i think it's possible dearly so it's just a question of do we'll be back on saturday to examine the almost daily scandals for drazen may's resignation by the us f.b.i. director j. good like or martin luther king jr. joyously. phantom's days like shaky like sentiment they make up then they get a grant from some you know corrupt congressmen in america billions of dollars and the side effect is always make. me and do suicide me and do something what you know

but the american flag is inducing suicide because you look at that you say oh it's a farmer to caucus a. global warming sell you on the idea that dropping bombs brings peanuts to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battle for food going to. produce off products so you can be gossip and probably one of the most important news today. on the cost of advertising telling me you are not cool enough and let you buy their product. of a whole week along the border with one. almost three hundred islamic state fighters are believed to have fled the liberated syrian city of raka the pentagon admits that only a few suspected militants were detained as they left. the russian parliament

passes a law allowing the kremlin to classify media outlets as foreign agents and holds a similar move made against r t in the united states. and the u.k. think tank claims that the volunteers attempting to help refugees cross international borders are being treated as criminals by the. for more on these stories head to our team dot com stay with us for the kaiser report on the tax avoidance schemes exposed in the paradise papers but if you're watching in the u.k. it's the financial news with boom bust.