self-serving purposes but. also saying that it is for the good of the public why do you think this phenomenon of flicking has caught on to such an extent. i do think. there is a public interest in it in general. is also interest from a money point of view. in respect off. let's say increase. the newspapers but there is also a interest in it in respect of power i mean. the powerful organizations and people like to money pull a. society with information. it tests changed in that respect that. main industry or can use information make

it public for instance as i did with e.q. leaks and talk to the world so there is a inflation information which definitely needs to be looked at it very carefully what is true what is fake as much money palatial going on and people that means me have to be aware of it ok and that mr omar i'm sure you would agree with me that the accusations of attempted money placed on a flying both ways and you know to illustrate that i just want to mention that there was a an article in the atlantic magazine recently which referred to a wiki leaks the organization that you cooperated with as a radical transparency organization i found this phrasing very interesting i know you have your differences with wiki leaks but just as a matter of principle do you believe that there is such a thing as transparency radicalism or perhaps even transparency extremism yes there

is. i still believe that certain information shouldn't go public still have to. respect privacy all. people on the organization. it is really a matter all of you see it in the public interest. that the public interest is more important that they even trust all of the company. to keep the information. away from the public. that's that that's that's important to do value with that. information how it gets public and what sort of information gets public but speaking about we kill leaks do you think they they could be indeed accused of being too radical in that quest for transparency he do think so i mean leaks we have to look at it fundamentally wiki leaks is a or used to be

a platform to provide information i know mostly and it is made public weiqi leaks has changed the last few years and i do understand from a studio us us point of view that the has a personal issue with united states. i do think he because he's personally issues it becomes a kind of bias. so therefore that information which is published for instance into trump case that he had contact with. the junior trump. confuses me totally because it really has to be independent information and information rich is provided by sources not kind of used for making public using to tool be key leaks which is an important tool.

a political instrument to influence. elections wherever in the world well mr elmer is not only julian assange has issues for the united states it's the united states which has issues with julian assange so it's not only mutual they i think rely on a pretty similar tactics take for example the atlantic these that are already mentioned it's full of contempt for wiki leaks and its mode of operation but on the other hand the hall narrative is based on belief i suppose initially confidential message exchange between the weak. junior is that a fair game now reserving the right of privacy and leaks for yourselves but denying them to your opponent. yes. that's very confusing and i don't think that's the way it should work at all because it's basically using. that platform and it's in my view an issue about to be critics itself that it to stop

that sort of practice at least to remain. independent otherwise it's just like call it a tabloid press you took an issue with the leaks efforts to reach out to. jr but i know you also had difficulties with getting the media and the authorities interested in the kind of information you were hoping to provide how else would you try to build those relationships because from what i know from what it was written actually we can leaks also try to. price they trump count with releasing its own sound city of data so that supposedly would also be in the public interest always to. into public interest but we can leak safely if. that's what it's known at. the requested tax forms

provided to e.q. leaks and they really publish the information already that step shows a kind of being bias being is playing an active role in my view. i believe in my case i actually tried to solve the issue with the authorities in switzerland with the swiss tax authorities with the courts and when i learned that that doesn't work that the legal system doesn't work that and i said look i have to take it to a high you a level higher level it's definitely. up to us and we kill eeks now this internal e-mail contact which was published by. leaks hillary clinton that sort of thing first of all should have actually be handled internally first from what i know it was handled internally we now know from the

revelations by donna brazil the interim had of did they didn't see that there was in fact a secret agreement between the clinton camp and the party's leadership financial agreement long before she was pronounced a nominee so she herself suggested that that was unethical but do you do you really believe that in the current climate that exists in the united states. hillary clinton could get just as fair of a trial as for example donald trump. as a matter of fact i don't believe that sort of thing is. how we call it very politically driven. and to get a fair trial on that level. think it's not possible i don't think i even think that trial will never happen because of one or the other way that trial will

be stopped before it really starts speaking about how you handle this information because even after the don't the brazils revelations there is virtually no discussion in the american the media on the actual substance on the content of agreement or those leaked e-mails and the argument from the clinton side is that that information was. inappropriately acquired and therefore it should not be considered what is your take on do you think when you deal with issues like that do you think the information the case in point should be considered based on the content and possible public significance or simply based on how the information was a wasn't up to it because we do not know full details as of now as we know today the. system doesn't really work at all in the sense of with banking information for instance the swiss bank secrecy. wasn't possible to provide team

for me to have to get information. on the legal way because for instance german u. boat c.d.'s. actually paid money for it so that the information was provided illegally today system as a matter of fact and that's also on the political side it's close to impossible to legally open taping that information because you have to see the loss made by parliament by. more or less by multinationals more or less by high net worth individuals and those laws actually back. themselves it's not the protection of the. man industry it's more a protection for themselves so the information which is obtained

illegally that's the way to get the information out to the public all unfortunately we have to change the law so i mean i do believe in the democrat. a law. as. it is off today in many states that's not possible well mr helmer for their record out also believe in democracy and the rule of law and i think one upside in these call leaking and counter leaking saga with the that the only way to put an end to that is to conduct transparent efficient honest governance that you wouldn't have enough compromising material to leak do you think that is a possibility after all these debacle with the e-mails that county emails and so on and. it's who are a difficult to get a government there always interests which national interests however

they always to. to make that information available for society in a way that it's legal and i would say. we don't have any protection for whistleblowers at all if you do have protection for we saw what was on in the public sector as well as in the private sector that information would have being can be made public and that actually puts pressure on the parliament to become more on this is in and do their business in favor off the public but as as long. those whistle blowers are not protected they snow real. force there who requests for.

or forces to parliament to look at. issue seriously i mean if you consider we've had looks leaks we had. panama leaks we have to pardon eyes leaks slowly but surely the paul amends are going to be interested in an issue but it simply takes time because that information becomes known to the parliament and they are forced to do so but it's an easy way to do it i mean basically if you have to protection official blowers you know. it will work then. as i'm sure you understand that also a fact very powerful interest and perhaps that that's where the reluctance to change anything comes from anyway mr aylmore we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments. every

single minute there's a new drug for something that the disease like shaky likes and of of they make up then they get a grant from some corrupt congressmen in america billions of dollars and the side effect is always make. me do suicide me and this is what you know that the american flag is inducing suicide because you look at that you say oh it's a farm a a caucus. the.

welcome back to worlds apart bit privileged out there for my swiss banker and a tax haven whistleblower mr elmer your own case is obviously different because it involves not only your former employer whom you are accused of tax money placements but also a huge institutional inches that is suisse banking secrecy which ultimately l. out switzerland to become a magnet such a magnet for private foreign money what is the bigger threat for you now that your case is under appeal is it the bank used to work for or the country as i think. you might view it's basically to the contrary. but i'm more than happy that

out of the cars elmore i mean the whistleblower elmer it has turned into a space bank secrecy. and it's a cause which relates not only to switzerland it also relates to all secrecy u.s. dictions without secrecy laws so call them takes havens. how far the secrecy law will go. and in my case they are now trying to apply the secrecy law extra territorially basically that men means i was employed in the cave in islands and they are saying. on the swiss bank secrecy if the federal courts say that correct well i a prosecution of all accused then it would mean that an employee let's

say more mumbai working for a swiss bank because they outsourced business down there is on the swiss bank secret i just want to clarify that for our viewers that you were acquitted last year but now the prosecutors are appealing your case and they're in fact arguing that regardless of where a person suppose that the founder is as long as he or she is working for swiss banks. he or she should comply with the secrecy laws reach means that potentially this if we if we. could be applied in any other country i'm sure you disagree with that and i'm sure many other countries would disagree with that but what do you think of the chances of the supreme court agreeing with that. i don't think they are that tired all because it would actually create a tremendous international debate and i do know that. parliament as well is looking already at the case however you never know because we

are talking here about a money making industry which is key for switzerland and therefore. even the federal courts will try to find me guilty one or do all the way pretty sure about that but as you said there is a huge. institutional interest on one hand the case of switzerland and how it makes its money but on the other hand there are also huge institutional interest in the e.u. and the united states in increasing transparency do you think that would be a consideration for the judges. do think that you have to consider that thing chuck you call to make a decision. due to political issues as a charge you actually forced to use the law to apply the law which was. agreed to and set up by the parliament they don't have

any room to make any political decision in theory in practice it look different because i was found guilty violating swiss banks so you can see it twice at the lower court of at least twelve talk just looked at the case and they said i'm guilty so therefore they may have made a political decision now now mr o'mara i think we can still agree that the swiss secrecy a lot has been under pressure from a number of western players most notably the united states and also the european union there has been some action against this ways banks and i heard the experts say before that as the swiss bankers ability to paddle a secrecy decreases they may come up with i'll turn it of business strategies so for example they may cater more to the clients from politically unstable a developing countries and to try to sell. the bill its year rather than secrecy

has that come to pass do you see any change in how suis banks market data services . yes i'm pretty sure there are many of them already i mean they have had a lot of time to adopt the pressure which is made by the international society for instance birth into will be individuals or formal to nationals structures where you don't have a human human being behind it i mean there are only days. that both individuals are just not willing to expend so much money for ministration side to set up proper structure but i chocked i still. possible today secondly switzerland has a so-called safe center in the state of set up in two thousand and eleven so the payment payments are made between switzerland and swiss bank secrecy still that

sort of payment. payments are on the swiss bank secrecy so that's another one third on the. we do have me bonkers they are me bonkers are not out to well try net worth individuals to for instance to put gold or any valuables in their reach basically means that. another business model each. minds even the money laundering laws the outsourced sort of business to let's call it all the tax havens new tax havens because you have to understand the tax haven business is so money making that. every county is really interested in being a taxation it's

a very profitable big business from what the from what you say but i correct me if i'm wrong i think there has also been some efforts or at least appear in south africa on the part of this we said thore just to investigate where they mine are coming from they were and they have been a number of high profile investigations usually involving politically disagreeable countries including russia i'm sure you know about the probe into russia's form our agricultural minister u.n.'s critic and her seventy million dollar assets in banks do you take that as a genuine pursuit of possibly konami cries or is that just the political or geopolitical single out singling out mine my view is really going on in switzerland . there are investigations before and. those in the investigations. are done due to political reasons and i'm pretty sure many of those investigations will be closed without any result if you talk about the fight to talk about russia. i'm

pretty sure the i know we have a lot of russian money in switzerland they will find reasons to close that case i mean we had this issue with automatic information exchange and also called conceded by right wing politics a corrupt contrary i don't want to while you on that one at the moment but they said it's a corrupt contrie do not exchange information automatically with a corrupt country and as a matter of fact i mean they have signed the contract with russia switzerland and they read revalue shortly before automatic information exchange will set into force if russia is still a co-op the county it's not being solved at all are you raise the issue of corruption and it is a major problem for this country and form our own perhaps even the current

officials all well connected businessman siphoning off money from this country. not only for tax evasion purposes sometimes it's simply pure sealing of money from the budget or from banking accounts of private citizens it's simply an issue all for internal oversight and this is something that the russian government has to address but to what extent do you think this problem is a baited by the permissive practices of western financial institutions i mean. financial institutions or even. savings all over the world they will support that sort of thing because it's going to make money. there are a lot of reasons. to bring to explain why things are clean i mean for instance the bank i worked for we had so-called politically exposed people rereviewed those. clients every spot there was

a list which was called permanent exceptions. or clients reach not only were political expose people they also had a criminal record. basically about the banking girl dolls if something gets public that they will tell the client leave leave leave the bank we kick you out because the information system the financial introduced and. related to criminal cases they. know very well well ahead before an investigation is started to what's going on and they get rid of that client well mr elmer what you're saying is very depressing but i wonder if there is a slight hope of the times changing perhaps we leave in an era when increased since privacy is not just a moral aspiration it's a practical consequence of technological advance do you think this we state is one

of the world's biggest tax havens will survive the technologies such as block chain and the like. e s i do think so but you have to see. key issues are not the instruments a sock judge in my view key issues are that if someone gets caught that the person is made personally responsible that the person goes to prison which makes them really afraid of using could mean in the actions or for instance with the big force because the big force are actually the enablers. you my view of tax evasion because they they were globally they have one hundred eighty one hundred eighty contrie selfish says and they do they do as well tax advise to the multinationals but they are not responsible for what they say so in my view

because for instance ought to be those peaks forced to have to toss to serve the public as well they have to come for that in dalby to proton on a yearly level that. there is no material and be talking about maternity they know what that means that there is no material profit chief thing from the contrie you have to make those people responsible for it and that they are. getting kind of getting afraid of i have to go to prison or the county might. be punished with sanctions all for from the international community. that sort of thing is i mean you can set up structures but if there is no point where someone gets really responsible for eat that and say look. at the fines we pay

simply business costs or for instance we had a case in switzerland where a banker was. conveyed to doff helping. in tax evasion that he had to pay you. and that was it basically that sort of thing has to change i see well michelle mahrer this is all we have time for thank you very much for being with us today and to our viewers please share your comments on our twitter facebook and youtube pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.

kidding. me. does she don't consume don't tell you that it doesn't do the huge a deal in the stand up on the wall soon enough that equal one to two inches also means that what equals this tells me. this will be done still in the old movies that do those missiles this is also the answer to to all

. they call me a useful idiot. you called me a useful idiot useful idiot useful idiots go expressing my opinions on t.v. there are thousands of us doing it behind his record is the same strategy we attack persons instead of talking about what's next you'll ban me from getting this close to the white house i'm with a group code pink why not ban the color pink one hour stretch beyond the right i should be sent to the town of london because i'm a traitor break me on the wheel but out with my lifetime of this sort of nonsense you don't scare me and i'll continue to voice my opinion i'll continue to speak out i'm in good company i'm in good company you going with me you want to do this because we are free thinkers.

president mccrone invites the four one lebanese prime minister to france but says nonetheless it's not an exile first in the wake of southern areas abrupt resignation. the search for alleged russian meddling in the u.k. fields momenta with researches claiming social media accounts influence. the kremlin's plane from the tackle britain's energy grid. to over three hundred islamic state fighters of belief fled the liberated syrian city of the pentagon admits that only a few suspected militants did. you can you say you don't know why says fighters leave the cities and go somewhere else can you say that you can't say with one hundred percent.