respect privacy off people and organization. it is really a matter all of e.c. it in the public interest. that the public interest is more important that the interest of the company. to keep the information. away from the public that's that that's that's important to do value with that. information how it gets public and what sort of information gets public but speaking about we can makes do you think they they could be indeed accused of being too radical in that quest for transparency he do think so i mean the key leaks we have to look at it fundamentally wiki leaks is a or used to be a platform to provide information i know mostly and it is made public weiqi leaks has changed the last few years and i do understand from

a studio us us point of view that the has a personal issue with united states. i do think he because it's personal issues it becomes a kind of bias. so therefore that information which is published for instance into trump case that he had contact with. the junior trump. confuses me totally because it really has to be independent information and information rich is provided by sources not kind of used for making public using to tool be key leaks which is an important tool. a political instrument to influence. elections wherever in the world well mr elmer it's not only julian assange has issues with the united states it's the united states which has issues with julian assange so it's not only mutual they

i think rely on free to a similar tactics take for example the atlantic piece that i already mentioned it's full of contempt for wiki leaks and its mode of operation but on the other hand the whole narrative is based on the leaked i suppose initially confidential message exchanged between the regular. junior is that a fair game now reserving the right of privacy and leaks for yourselves but denying them to your opponent. yes. that's very confusing and i don't think that's the way it should work at all because it's basically using a that platform and it's in my view an issue about to be critics itself that. stop that sort of practice at least to remain. independent otherwise it's just like call it

a tabloid press you took an issue with that after as they were leaks efforts to reach out to. jr but i know you also had difficulties with getting the media and the authorities interested in the kind of information you were hoping to provide how else would you try to build those relationships because from what i know from what it was written actually we can leaks also try to. press camp with releasing its own sound city of data so that supposedly would also be in the public interest always. into public interest but we can leak safely if we kill x. on that well it's known that. the requested tax forms are provided to a.q. leaks and they really publish the information already that step shows a kind of being bias being playing an active role in my view.

i believe in my case i actually tried to solve the issue with the authorities in switzerland with the swiss tax authorities with the courts and when i learned that that doesn't work that the legal system doesn't work that and i said look i have to take it to a high you a level higher level it's definitely. us and we kill eeks now this internal e-mail contact which was published by. leaks on hillary clinton that sort of thing first of all should have actually be handled internally first from what i know it was handled internally we now know from the revelations by donna brazil the interim had of did they didn't see that there was in fact a secret agreement between the clinton camp and the party's leadership financial

agreement long before she was pronounced the nominee so she herself suggested that that was unethical but do you do you really believe that in the current climate that exists in the united states. hillary clinton could get just as fair of a trial as for example donald trump. as a matter of fact i don't believe that sort of thing it. we call it very politically driven. and to get a fair trial on that level. think it's not possible i don't think i even think that trial will never happen because of one or the other way that trial will be stopped before it really starts speaking about how you handle this information because even after the donor brazil's revelations there is virtually no discussion in the american the media on the actual substance on the content of agreement or

those leaked e-mails and the argument from the clinton side is that that information was. inappropriately acquired and therefore it should not be considered what is your take on do you think when you deal with issues like that do you think the information the case in point should be considered based on the content and possible public significance or simply based on how the information was a wasn't up to it because we do not know full details as of now as we know today the. system doesn't really work at all in the sense of with banking information for instance the swiss bank secrecy. wasn't possible to provide came from to have to get information. on the legal way because for instance germany both c.d.'s and actually paid money for it so that the information was provided

illegally today system as a matter of fact and that's also on the political side it's close to impossible to legally open taping that information because you have to see the law made by parliament by. more or less by multinationals more or less by high net worth individuals and those laws actually. themselves it's not the protection of the. man industry it's more a protection for themselves so the information which is obtained illegally that's the way to get the information out to the public all unfortunately we have to change the law so i mean i do believe in the democrat. in

law. as. it is off today in many states that's not possible well mr helmer for their record out also believe in democracy and the rule of law and i think one upside in this hall leaking and counter leaking saga with be that the only way to put an end to that is to conduct transparent efficient honest governance then you wouldn't have enough compromising material to leak do you think that is a possibility after all these debacle with the e-mails and counting and e-mails and so on and so. it's who are a difficult to get a government there always interests. national interests however they always to. to make that information

available for society in a way that it's legal and i would say. we don't have any protection for whistleblowers at all if you do have protection for we saw what was on in the public sector as well as in the private sector that information would have been can be made public and that actually puts pressure on the parliament to become more on this is in and do that business in favor off the public but. those whistle blowers are not protected there is no real. force there who are requests for. or forces to parliament to look at. issue seriously i mean if you consider the three had looks leaks we had. leaks we have to paradise leaks

slowly but surely the parliaments are going to be interested in us an issue but it simply takes time because that information becomes known to the parliament and they are forced to do so but it's an easy way to do it i mean basically if you have to protection a face of blowers in both sexes it will work then. as i'm sure you understand that also a fact said in a very powerful interest and perhaps that that's where the reluctance to change anything comes from anyway mr aylmore we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments say to end. our. folks . or telethon so they all. have our. help.

her out. to all this is out of. here. i've played for many clubs over the years so i know the game inside out it's. the

ball isn't only about what happens on the pitch put the final school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the superman each kill the narrowness and spending two hundred twenty million on one player. it's an experience like nothing else i want to because i want to share what i think what i know about the beautiful game a great one more chance for. a nice minute. it's the cradle of jazz. is america is the america we have. to close this jazz feel. the city of climatic catastrophe of alligators on the loose of poverty and crime by the at least twelve members of my family close. of street racing in the heat of the night.

new orleans is. the best place in the world. welcome back to worlds apart but for adults and i'll marry a for my sweeties banker and a tax haven whistleblower mr elmer your own case is obviously different because it involves not only your former employer whom you are accused of tax money placements but also a huge institutional interest that is suisse banking secrecy which ultimately l out

switzerland to become a magnet such a magnet for private foreign money what is the bigger threat for you now that your case is on to appeal is it the bank used to work for or the country is so it's. you my view it's basically do come true. but i'm more than happy that out of to cause elmore i mean the whistleblower elmer it has turned into a space bank secrecy. and it's a cause which relates not only to switzerland it also relates to all secrecy u.s. dictions without secrecy laws so-called takes havens. how far the secret oh. and in my case they are now trying to apply the secrecy law extra territorially basically that men means that i was employed

in the cave and islands and they all say. on the swiss bank secrecy if the federal courts ace that correct well i a prosecution or argues then it would mean that an employee let's say more mumbai working for a swiss bank because they outsourced business down there is on the swiss bank secret i just want to clarify that for our viewers that you were acquitted last year but now the prosecutors are appealing your case and they're in fact arguing that regardless of where a person suppose that the founder is as long as he or she is working for swiss banks. he or she should comply with the secrecy laws reach means that potentially this if we if we. could be applied in any other country i'm sure you disagree with that and i'm sure many other countries would disagree with that but what do you think of the chances of the supreme court agreeing but. i don't think they are that

tired all because it would actually create a tremendous international debate and i don't know. parliament looking already at the case however you never know because we are talking here about a money making industry which is key for switzerland and therefore. even the federal courts will try to find me guilty one or do all the way pretty sure about that but as you said there is a huge. institutional interest on one hand the case of switzerland and how it makes its money but on the other hand there are also huge institutional interest in the e.u. and the united states in increasing transparency do you think that would be a consideration for the judges. do think that you have to consider that thing

chuck you call to make a decision. due to political issues as a charge you actually forced to use the law to apply the law which was. agreed to and set up by the parliament they don't have any room to make any political decision in theory in practice it look different because i was found guilty by a late things his bank suit his seat twice at the lower court of security at least twelve talk just looked at the case and they said i'm guilty so therefore they may have made a political decision now now mr o'mara i think we can still agree that the swiss secrecy a lot has been under pressure from a number of western players most notably the united states and also the european union there has been some action against this ways banks and i heard the experts

say before that they swiss bankers ability to paddle a secrecy decreases they may come up with i'll turn into a business strategy so for example they may cater more to the clients from politically unstable a developing countries and to try to sell. the bill it's here rather than secrecy has that come to pass do you see any change in how suis banks market data services . yes i'm pretty sure there are many of them already i mean they have had a lot of time to adopt to pressure which is made by the international society for instance birth into will be individuals or formal to nationals you still can set up structures where you don't have a human human being behind it i mean there are only days. that both individuals were just not willing to expend so much money for demonstration site to set up

proper store upcher but i talked to are still. possible today secondly switzerland has a so-called safe center in the state of set up in two thousand and eleven so the payment payments are made between switzerland and swiss bank secrecy still that sort of payment. payments are on the swiss bank secrecy so that's another one third on the. we do have me bonkers they are me bankers are not out to dry net worth individuals to for instance to put gold or any valuables in their reach basically means that. another business model each. on the mines even the morning laundering laws the outsourced sort of business to let's call it all the

tax havens new tax havens because you have to understand the tax haven business is so money making that. every county is really interested in being a taxation it's a very profitable big business from what the from what you say but i correct me if i'm wrong i think there has also been some efforts are at least appearing south africa on the part of this we south or it is to investigate where they mine are coming from there and there have been a number of high profile investigations usually involving politically disagreeable countries including russia i'm sure you know about the probe into russia's form our agricultural minister your critique and her seventy million dollar assets in banks do you take that as a genuine pursuit of possibly konami cries or is that just the political or geopolitical single out singling out mine my view is really going on in switzerland

. there are investigations before and. those into investigations. are due to political reasons and i'm pretty sure many of those investigations will be closed without any result if you talk about the fight of you talk about russia i'm pretty sure we know and i know we have a lot of russian money in switzerland they will find reasons to close that case i mean we had this issue with automatic information exchange and russia also called conceited by right wing politics a corrupt contrary i don't want to while you on that one at the moment but they said it's a corrupt contrie do not exchange information automatically with a corrupt country and as a matter of fact i mean they have signed the contract with russia switzerland and

they read revalue shortly before automatic information exchange will set into force if russia is still a co-op contrie it's not being solved at all or you raise the issue of corruption and it is a major problem for this country and for morrow perhaps even the current officials all well connected businessman siphoning off money from this country. not only for tax evasion purposes sometimes it's simply pure sealing of money from the budget or from banking accounts of private citizens it's simply an issue all for internal oversight and this is something that the russian government has to address but to what extent do you think this problem is a baited by the permissive practices of western financial institutions i mean. financial institutions or even. savings all over the world they will support that sort of thing because it's going to make money up. there

a lot of reasons. to bring to explain why things are clean i mean for instance the bank i worked for we had so-called politically exposed people rereview those. clients every spot there was a list which was called permanent exceptions. or clients which not only were political expose people they also had a criminal record and basically about the banking girl dolls if something gets public that they will tell the client leave leave leave the bank we kick you out because the information system the financial introduced and. related to criminal cases they do they know very well well ahead

before an investigation is started to what's going on and they get rid of that client well mr elmer what you're saying is very depressing but i wonder if there is a slight hope of the times changing perhaps we leave in an era when increased transparency is not just a moral aspiration it's a practical consequence of technological advance do you think this we state as one of the world's biggest tax havens will survive the technologies such as block chain and the like. e s i do think so but you have to see. key issues are not the instrument. in my view key issues are that if someone gets caught that the person is made personally responsible that the person goes to prison which makes them really afraid of using could mean and that actions or for instance with the big force because to big force are actually the enablers. you my view of tax evasion because they

they were globally they have one hundred eighty one hundred eighty counties all faces and they do they do as well. advised to the multinationals but they are not responsible for what they say so in my view because for instance the big those speak force do have to toss to the public as well they have to come for that all the proton on a yearly level that there is no material and be talking about maternity they know what that means that there is no material profit chafing from want to do all the contrie you have to make those people responsible for it and that they are. getting kind of getting afraid of i have to go to prison or to county might. be punished with sanctions all fall from the international community.

that sort of thing is i mean you can set up structures but if there is no point where someone gets really responsible for eat that and say look. at the fines we pay simply business costs or for instance we had a case in switzerland where a banker was. conveyed to dog helping. in tax evasion he had to pay you one thousand and and that was it basically that sort of thing has to change i see well it may sound like this is all we have time for thank you very much for being with us today and to our viewers please share your comments on our twitter facebook and youtube pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.

if. not. then and second to. deal with this thing i'm going to assume that at equal

distances what equals just. don't. seem years ago i traveled across the united states exploring america's deadly love affair with. a bad guy trying to get to one of my family members he would have better luck with that better and i think they are inheriting whatever my my baby says my book was published in the year two thousand more than half

a million americans have been killed by the us side how does thought we did this is a middle school we go through drills and we put ourselves in a real scenario so it was interesting to see you. hit. to the subject to track down each gun owner who i'd met in golf those years you god i don't know this but we are not.

headlining this hour of potential winter games blowers the world anti-doping agency refuses to lift the suspension on russia's own anti-doping body we look at the possible consequences of that decision for team rushes and then pick up. the search for alleged russian meddling in the u.k. builds momentum with research is claiming social media accounts influenced. the deposed catalan leader explains all in a rare interview and the launch edition of our team's new talk show he tells host alex salmond how he felt a violent mob referendum day. because i see directly the filed a face. plate on their. own little finger.