america was required to register as a foreign agent i have prominent media outlets and civil liberties groups been largely silent also making sense of saudi and lebanese politics and american footprint in syria. i'm after time here we're going underground just twenty four hours away from m.p.'s checking their pockets and going through the books as they announce the details of last month's political donations coming up in the show we ask a wiki leaks lawyer if despite denials the u.k. crown prosecution service and the kids storm purposely deleted the e-mails and breached it so data policy to keep julian assange should is being interviewed at children's live in probation companies we talk to the boss of nato representing

thousands of ration offices loss from the cowriter band the day to day to knowing me knowing you with alan partridge we speak first for us tomorrow the largest country and tiley in europe ukraine witness new protests yet in the southwest the support you could see it's in the book that was born with a series flame that was my only book when you know you must look at these two because the motive of the beast is to deliberately my good for the physically sick and yes no for which you can play with the lady is out of the loop of the outcome and the protests on russia's borders of course had the full support of the us a so-called deep state let alone its elected leader if we had been actively engaged in what's been happening in the ukraine nato nation media would mostly ignore the fact that both the usa and the e.u. though were defacto supporting nazis there were exceptions including even one report on the u.k. statement dated b.b.c. groups of men struck through the square with dubious iconography.

that yellow arm band is a false on a german symbol used by several s.s. divisions during the second world war for barack obama the time was ripe for regime change given a lot of media putin perceived off. because he was caught. off balance by the protests and the maid and the other coverage then falling after we had brokered a deal to transition power in ukraine yes obama brokered a deal to transition power in ukraine regime change but do we really hear the truth about what happened in ukraine here's what seamus milne before he became the communications director for western europe's largest socialist movement the labor party told this program about what happened four years tomorrow i think the media has played a very negative role by presenting a very one sided story of the original my down protests in kiev and the

process that led to the overthrow of the president and the rebellion that's taken place in the east of the country many aspects of that have not been properly reported i mean some with some notable exceptions but for example the far right role in the original protests and the role of near fascist groups now in the battalions that are operating the volunteer battalions the national guard that are operating in the east of the country you know is very very much played down in the western media reports at all it's often painted as though it's some fantasy of kremlin propaganda yes if you believed all the kremlin propaganda you probably thought nato secretary general would soon be in the ukrainian capital addressing and arguably undemocratic parliament where political parties are banned very happy to be back in ukraine back in the queue well joining me now is wiki leaks lawyer jennifer robinson she's a human rights lawyer and barrister daddy street chambers jennifer thanks so much for going on going underground before we go to some extraordinary news about julian

as arjan with the leaks just tell me a little bit about this case you were involved in about benefit caps to lone parents who had suffered domestic abuse and they were made homeless by government as a security policy it was part of the conservative government he austerity cuts which is cuts to benefits which they changed around around. controversy that certain families in this country were getting more from benefits because that's what they needed to survive in london we're getting more from benefits than people who were the working poor so rather than assessed benefits on need by size of family by how much they rent was by where they lived they cut it on a blanket basis according to what the lowest working wage would be in this country now that meant that women who were living alone who didn't have the ability to have to go to work who had small children were having their benefits kept in a way that meant they could now not afford to live where they were living they had to either move or they had to cut their living expenses in ways it was forcing women into reliance on food banks and the like and our challenge was basically

saying this was discriminatory against women because women who have little children are expected to work and by cutting their benefits because they were not able to work made no rational reasonable sense and was putting them in real difficulty and you were and we won and the judge said that it was causing real misery for no for no purpose to love the taxpayer is funding an appeal here is the decision in your favor that's right to the government is appealing it because they see that this is a is a massive carve out of their austerity policies we say that it is required by the international the patients that it will force thousands of children into poverty which will have long term developmental effects upon children and we're waiting now for the court of appeal judgment oh no i do want to get through but obviously there is there's always money for war if there isn't for. parents. just reminders of how whistleblowers are targeted i know that you received a call from the famous rolling stone germans were always stings. the story for the

base of the brad pitt movie on netflix at the moment about u.s. policy in afghanistan. that's right i had a lot of respect for michael hastings and it was incredibly sad his the circumstances of his death just prior to his death he had been in touch with me he was concerned about being investigated because of his work. by the f.b.i. and unfortunately i was not able to speak to him about that before before he was before he died do you believe that you've been subject to any surveillance yourself even though you're a lawyer representing all these high profile cases not likely to get activist as of well i think there are great concerns about we know as a result of the material released by edward snowden he wasn't himself inspired by what we've done we know as a result of that that surveillance is incredibly widespread and in fact when i spoke with bill binney in an n.s.a. whistleblower he explained i asked him directly what kind of surveillance do you think wiki leaks is under and he said everybody around wiki leaks yourself included it doesn't matter that you're a lawyer and probably

a lot of the people that you even speak to every single thing that you do and say will be captured now i don't have proof of that but this is from someone who worked in the n.s.a. and understands how the programs work and this raises significant concerns i think both for activists movements and for those who are dissidents and taking on the state but also for as a lawyer we have professional obligations and we have duties to protect the information in our clients give us there's a certain thing called legal professional privilege that ought to be beyond the realm of what states can read and look at particularly when we're acting against the state and there are real concerns about the fact that we suspect the united states government and likely the british government has been spying on correspondents and not just me of of many lawyers but no absolute proof i really do you have trouble boarding planes at london airport heathrow airport i was once stopped boarding a flight home to australia which is my i'm from a stranger i'm originally a strain on the citizen and i was trying to board a flight at heathrow some years ago when i was stopped and told that i was

inhibited and i would require the approval of the astray an embassy before getting on a plane. that's connected to any of the groups represented i have no i have no proof that in fact the british government the american the british government was reading of both came out to the there's no list there's no inhibited this that she's on that's associated with us but why would an airline. stop me and say that and say they couldn't board me if it wasn't referable to something it had to come around the magic sooner i mean that's the way you've been in london at the current case which which implies a possible serious failings of the ground prosecution service tell you about this journalist of army where it says she saw information was made information requests to the swedish prosecution authority and the british crown prosecution service the c.p.s. for correspondence between the c.p.s. and sweden correspondence with the united states correspondence with ecuador. a lot of that material was refused now in the course of the material that she got back from the swedish prosecution authority we learnt that the crown prosecution service

had been advising sweden against coming here to question julian now why is that important. the warrant that he was arrested under was a warrant for questioning in relation to allegations in sweden the entire time since i was acting for him dating back to two thousand and ten we said to the swedish authority there is no need to arrest him we will give you his testimony once you have his testimony you can make a decision about whether this is a case that you ought to see you in our view it's not a case of will prove to have a global seclusion service was trying to discourage swedish authorities from questioning here in london we have emails dating back to two thousand and eleven which was just after the arrest warrant was issued where the crown prosecution service lawyer advised the swedish prosecution service not to come here now we know as a result of that decision this case has dragged on for years and years and years and we have continually offered his testimony because in our minds if the prosecution hadn't heard from him in this case how can they have made a decision seven years later after all these appeals after him being inside the

embassy for more than five years the swedish prosecutor finally decided to come after being found in breach of our obligations in breach of sweden in breach of their enjoying still there all the drop cases will be dropped he's still inside the embassy because he's concerned about the risk of being extradited to the united states that is and has all. he's been he's concerned it is why we were seeking to resolve the swedish case without him having to go into custody in sweden that case is now being dropped now that they finally took his testimony he's now we are very concerned still about the risk of exposure to the united states and that risk has only become more of more of a concern since the trump administration came to power we've seen just this year that the attorney general jeff sessions came out into the prosecuting wiki leaks is a priority we've had the head of the cia might compare come out and say that wiki leaks is a hostile non-state intelligence agency and this is the kind of semantics that i think the u.s. government starts to use it as a precursor and start preparing for administrative and legal action who is head of the global solutions services you're making these allegations with the labor member

. i believe he was the head of the c.p.s. but it was it was the extradition service team and the current lawyer there has now retired but the c.p.s. is still responsible for this now britain has been julian has been found to be arbitrarily detained by the united nations a large part of that decision was the failure of the swedish and u.k. authorities to properly progress his case it's been dragged on for seven years now what was the key reason why that case in sweden didn't go ahead because they wouldn't come in question here we now have evidence from the material that that's just an emergency got from the crown prosecution service where the c.p.s. lawyer says we're not treating this like any other extradition case you shouldn't come here because it will give his defense team a strategic advantage they had the ability to say that because those are all the e-mails are being released not all the e-mails so we're going to go to be deleted by the ground prosecution so that's right we have that material from the swedish crime from the swedish prosecution authority the british authority has refused to

release it ferment for for more than eighteen months we were in court arguing that they ought to release it that it's in the public interest because the british public ought to know what role the c.p.s. played in creating a situation which is unprecedented of journalists who is inside an embassy seeking asylum what role the c.p.s. played in placing britain in breach of international obligations that. in the public interest and the c.p.s. doesn't want to give us the information we've since learned because of this process and because of our people that delay today miles i don't know how much material in the file the certainly not filing material and keeping it in a way that makes it accessible which they admitted in court was in breach of their own data retention policy but on the other hand they also say that they don't have any idea of the content of the e-mails or because it counts been deleted and the case was not live when the e-mail accounts were deleted so it's wrong it's clear there's been correspondence between the swedish authority in the crown prosecution service giving continue what advice about the case we think it's in the public interest to understand what the crown prosecution service was saying and how that contributed to this case being dragged out for so long in circumstances where it

was simply unnecessary jennifer thank you thank you after the break the head of wednesday's u.k. budget they are responsible for the murder of the honorable star because the patients service is the boss of maple representing probation officers across the country and award winning actor stephen tompkinson on political satire the paradise bay prison it was that murdoch that ruined football in fact it was played to read all the civil war coming up in part two of going on the. cryptocurrency doesn't really need to replace the us dollar replaces the euro it just needs to survive while those behemoths collapse under their own weight and that's when the top and it's going to go.

welcome back within the next forty eight hours the british government presents its first budget since this summer's snap election which cost the conservative party. majority but will tourism a chancellor address the impact of arguable ideological privatisation austerity on the front line lawrence the general secretary of nato the trade union and professional association really caught in welcome back to going underground to it seventy percent of the ration their work in england and wales was privatized which raises may and david cameron how's it going so far well the architect of this disaster was chris grayling of course who suggests we should grow our way out of problems you don't have ordered by the venom secretary and of course prime minister just a select committee called chris grayling in asking for the rush now behind this seriously

bad social experiment it has failed on a number of fronts now the point is that these are now for profit companies who write their private and the allegation is that some public services like public libraries are being used by these for profit companies or goes public service is a paid for by council tax there's a very concerned who had a case down in the west country where working links one of the providers or the provider down there has been using public library we know of one certainly weston super mare where clients probation clients are being interviewed we find it wholly unacceptable and the public ought to know what the individual who committed crimes are out on probation and when they're being checked up on to see whether they are abiding by the terms of their release they are being interviewed in a public library at the time that they are interview with the public around them yes indeed and we had reports of clients stepping around the children's section of the library to get to the appointments but nevertheless it's not it's not an

environment is conducive to serious supervision of clients who may present a low medium risk but we don't know now people don't know how their circumstances may change from one meeting to the next the longer they respect when face to face supervision people can present with. problems ok if we saw the statistics first second and they're quite seriously to succeed have been emerging over this period in terms of reoffending rates and all the rest is it money for old rope for these companies that will see your c.d.'s and they've just been given an extra thirty seven million pounds and. that was actually there was a response to the shadow justice secretary richburg yes or for your old rope well i figure maybe more up to date on what i had but it's somewhere between twenty or thirty seven million this year to keep their heads above water questions need to be raised also the justice select committee might well ask where is this two hundred seventy seven million pounds come from there's now been guaranteed by ministers to

these failing providers they shouldn't vented interface with are absolutely nailing down how much it would cost to liberation services in the new environment do you think chris grayling knew about it we have this leaked memo for twenty thirty and we were told about it before mr justice officials warning there's an eighty percent risk of an unacceptable drop an operational performance if this privatisation he absolutely knew about it and we warned politicians including chris quietly in that we had seen this risk report ok but i mean do we have a twenty five percent rise in serious crimes such as murder and manslaughter committed by offenders under supervision in the community is that the fault of your members or is it the fault of this policy of privatisation difficult to say. through every serious case an independent report conducted and we've seen little or no blame attributed to partition of members in the vast majority of these cases because what has been found some stakes are made you to a combination of factors information not reaching people right time multi-agency

arrangements not filing of them because you're under resourced what do you think of this commitment from the favorite to be the next prime minister jeremy corbett and his party saying they basically want every national as little probation service to get well we absolutely welcome that and we were believe it i believe it i believe it i believe the general about that. indeed before the last one election with similar commitments from citi card and others in terms of what they wanted to do clearly there would be a maryland potential it would be a cost implication but when you think about the amount of taxpayers' money that's being wasted i would argue to bring in probation back into public ownership and make it more accountable be very popular with the taxpaying public i mean there was some eyebrows raised saying that that young more young children should be sent to jail for longer that was at the age of the howard league president dick that really runs the largest police force in the country would that ease the load on probation people getting longer sentences the younger ages there are too many people in

prison period and all of you think or whatever the met well i think that's why is it in the context of how you describe the comments are the myself but just trying people into prison is proven not to work and clearly there are people who present a real and present danger to the public and none of our members would would argue that if that is the case and off the streets now harm's way there are so many people incarcerated now who are in there for offenses which frankly do not deserve a prison sentence and there are far too many women prisoners as well in the system scandalous just for the public accounts committee they were certainly raise because the next generation electronic team which has been a long movie there's a great new improvement.