hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle the political crisis inflicted upon lebanon by saudi arabia appears to receded at least for now is this a sign of things to come as the saudi royal family changes so to saudi arabia and the region is it time to buckle up and brace for impact. across talking saudi arabia and the region i'm joined by my guest. and washington he's a saudi commentator in beirut we have charmaine now one the she is a journalist as well as a middle east geo political analyst and in toronto we cross the mohammad marandi he

is an associate professor at the university of toronto are across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much appreciate jamal let me go to you first in washington as we saw this situation play out in lebanon and i don't think it's done yet we'll see what the next move is here but looking at what's going on in saudi arabia critics can make the claim that the the lebanon episode was to deflect from what was going on in saudi arabia and vice versa i mean how are they connected or they're just very different things happening at the same time go ahead in washington no. two different things happening and. saudi arabia just admit that you used to make a complaint about. not only in the good and but in syria and in yemen maybe. issue was interviewed you was. too hasty fashion in both. succeeded. issue of has.

no even the fringe. of the law should be. should be districted. the law should not have a free hun. ok so this is what. this is all about a little bit and this is all about hezbollah then let me go to show i mean in beirut i mean one can easily make the claim that saudi arabia is meddling in lebanon and in yemen ok i mean i i don't see where you find the moral equivalence right there ok i mean so in beirut here i mean what is in play here because. seeing a country like saudi arabia claim it's making reforms considering it's the toxicity of religious to talk recy and it's reaching out to the west saying it's reforming and it wants to reorder the middle east i mean. that's destabilizing in itself because we don't know what the outcomes are at home and we certainly know what the

outcomes are abroad ok go ahead in beirut. that the saudis are in a very precarious situation i mean you know if you're going to take an aggressive stance in your neighborhood or at home one of the things you have to do is make sure you have cover so if you're going to move forward with an aggressive foreign policy you have to make sure you have stability and cohesion and at home. mohamed bin some on the crown prince or we often call him m.b.'s is in a dangerous position for himself because at home he's he's taken on the purging of the religious establishment and the royal family and even the business of stablish meant at the same time as he has. rockets and mortars coming in from yemen a war that he initiated. and neighboring states and many. conflicts around him in the region most of which saudi arabia has had

a hand in so you're right to criticize hezbollah for enter ference in arab affairs is a mockery because there is no country more aggressively pursuing interventions in regional states and neighboring states then saudi arabia and we should point to the arab league meeting on sunday which was to do. yeah but at the same time has flaws a political party and has been elected by the people of lebanon i think that it's an important distinction as well it is and it's not for the say it's not over the top not for the saudis were not to me there's no doubt about my show that i'm ok i have to let me let me i had the folks i had a feeling this was going to have a political one let me let you know it means let me bring in professor marandi so we'll go to the mix ok i would had a question but i think you've heard enough professor marandi to answer what you've

heard already on the program go ahead please well hezbollah is a part of the government and the government recognizes. the hezbollah are armed wing. in lebanon and it is universally recognized that the only thing that turbos another israeli attack on lebanon is hezbollah and if people look back the reason why hezbollah was created in the first place was the the israeli regime's occupation of lebanon its attack on the country and effectively they expelled israelis. so has a very popular in fact it's the most popular party in lebanon it actually gives its seat in the cabinet and in parliament to its own allies it only keeps a minimal number of seats just to be sure that they're in the debate. and to compare saudi arabia to hezbollah is really extraordinary we just recently heard

and i think all your viewers should watch the interview of the former prime minister of qatar when he spoke on i thirty t.v. not on here but on t.v. and he explained that at the very beginning of the situation in syria. he went to saudi arabia and they began plotting against the syrian government and of course we also have other documents like the defense intelligence agency document of two thousand and twelve and so on that shows that saudi arabia from the very beginning was the exporting terrorism to syria and the prime minister also acknowledged that the nostra front was being funded and that back then the nostra fund was actually part of isis because isis back then was i.s.i. their slimy state of iraq they created the north star from a struggle for syria and then again when we look at when we look at yemen the saudi

regime is creating a start it's creating starvation i don't maskil unprecedented in human history seven thousand people seventeen million people are on the verge of starvation or and the united states the western media the british million there are silent about this which is quite graceless but there is no comparison is that he showed arabia and anyone else in there and i point out to our viewers the sixty minutes report on c.b.s. was absolutely disgraceful in its bias ok jamal let me go back to you because if it's two against one here i want to be able to respond what we've heard in the program so far go ahead. but we should not pick and choose what we have a series of through revolution and that ought to be supported i wish he would do more support unfortunately even feel that my country is withdrawing your support to the studio live illusion and we shouldn't have done that because it is it is legitimate to support that evolution those people are calling for a measure to do or did it do we support. actually somehow saudi arabia they had

only of getting in somehow causing a lawyer for bashar assad and we should that we should be should not do that it is it is not in the interest yes i agree that the war in yemen is causing some suffering but. the whole issue should not be allowed to only because they are not democratic. but ascribing to a vote sharing formula for human so somehow so the. what. supporting what hezbollah is supporting the not supporting. peaceful change democratic change east of supporting dictatorships or security of them although i doubt that it's all you know kind of rich having saudi arabia supporting terrorist groups in. inside of syria i mean i i have a hard time good if i have a high excuse me but i have a hard time anyone from saudi arabia talking about democracy anywhere in the world

let me go to share meaning in beirut here i mean again you know this these reforms . you need to have we have to have equal time for everyone but you know and you know saudi arabia looks like it wants to be the hedge of money in the entire arab world i'm afraid that's a long time ago the number of missteps that they've gone through and they were in recent years have pretty much precluded that i mean the survival of the royal family should be the primary concern because without the royal family there is no saudi arabia ok i think you know they should get their priorities straight go ahead in beirut mohammed been found mine is doing exactly the opposite of that as i was saying earlier if you're going to take an aggressive foreign policy or domestic policy you have to make sure your back is covered and your flanks are covered and you can see what lies ahead he's taken on all these issues at the same time but you know going to the point about about the you know hezbollah and iran interfere. in the in the affairs of states and back to the arab league meeting on sunday the arab

league charter says that there are you know states the inviolability of not just sovereignty and territory territorial integrity of all arab states but independence as well and the first time in their history that they significantly varied from this and intervene in the affairs of state allegedly to support a population against its government it was in libya and in syria and now they are doing so in yemen when when when the arab league takes these decisions and sideline syria and looks to sideline other countries potentially like lebanon they have no right per their charter you have an arab league that is being hijacked now and there are very few members of that league that actually subscribe to to what mohamed wants in the region i mean it's saudi arabia it's. not even the u.a.e. . but her reign that has no voice any longer and maybe some sort of half steps by

some of the others but this is a very dangerous situation where one country is pretty much saying we can violate every occasion to beat around us i want to and we have the right to do so we have about forty seconds before we go to the break go ahead mohamed interim if you want to respond to that go ahead i think the big issue is that mohamed bin saddam on is behaving in a erratic manner he's not talking laving things or thinking things through he one week he has a huge conference from foreign investors at the ritz carlton the next week he arrests all the billionaires princes and ministers and puts them in the ritz carlton. that's basically saying to all foreign investors and leave and all wealthy saudis to leave the country as well. ok gentlemen and lady i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on saudi arabia and the region stay with art.

hillary clinton fans democrats they have a problem are putting all their efforts and to chasing the fake rush again hoax and they're not therefore they don't have the resources to go field new candidates that might have a chance of twenty so if they were to drop the rush again how and focus on just finding candidates to run a forty eight team they might have a chance but at this rate they don't have a chance which means that they probably won't have a chance and twenty points. she'll be in the. still dependent mile from the independent those with meters at that stage with. a less impact because. i was up at a sauna they. were sort of my lemon who speculate him to me

or the now with jamie as a hunk on the move. now it's a bad day because hell i don't known him for that matter i see let him make the point i mean it would be in the mail to have one thing closer he got because of me it's because he sees when i lived. in america a college degree requires a great deal. decades. studying so hard it requires trying to. go through humiliation to enter an elite society. and parching to death sometimes. quite literally.

launch of the true colors of universities in the u.s. . welcome back to crossfire all things considered i'm peter about to remind you we're discussing saudi arabia and the region. can you explain we all know that the crown prince and its assuming that he will become king very soon can you explain his reforms i mean mohamed in toronto up to about this i guess a better word is this really a shaking down of members of the royal family that may or may not have committed massive acts of corruption ok fine but is that the way to move forward i mean because if you want to have the rule of law so you break the law to have the rule of law you you state you take assets from people illegally but believing foreigners

will we attempted to legally enter you're in the saudi market i mean can't you see all the contradictions of what this quote unquote reform is all about because it looks like a power grab not in the name of a family but in the name of one man go ahead jamal. very much could really if there's a reason to put it this way he is doing that are you seeing is the wrong way i've been very much supportive of reform in saudi arabia i called exactly for many of the things well how much money is there when it often used to believe asli in saudi arabia yes not only if i'm really need to beat him don't need to be districted. to be alone but it. should not. live as if they own the state it shouldn't equal citizen to us we the people of

saudi arabia. here's the wind that i use things in saudi arabia but. the monitor will never be an economic development in saudi arabia. want to see it the fighting corruption but in a house to beat that i don't see in a lot in the washington post i question with that he's becoming president fourteen would he would just go that all the poet owned him. wouldn't do it even though i would like to see how well you know about what we have elections call me up when saudi arabia starts having elections and i'll be interested and invited the political parties to what i'm hoping for a right ok that assure me that going up what you can or if i think that i can go to you know i find it really kind of foolhardy i mean so do you a b. is a royal family it's not even a state really it's one family and it has one person striving to have all power to

him self here so if you're going to reform saudi arabia you have to reform the royal family what are the chances of that happening. not very good right now because. we're talking about a dictatorship where it was ruled by consensus at least with thousands of. princes and members of the royal family that had who had a stake in the system today it's not clear who has the stake in the system besides besides the crown prince the would be king so i don't think he's going to have a very good chance of accomplishing even his domestic objectives because again the purges of the religious establishment even to some tribes the royal family the business class and as to his vision for twenty thirty how can you accomplish this when when investors who are required for this kind of economic plan. and are are

going to be extremely wary of putting dollars into into a kingdom. you know that is that is governed by a leader this erratic. mohamed would wear to where does the u.s. play in all of this because i mean we have donald trump tweeting supporting the crown prince almost a blank check here do you think that kind of nudge him along that he's going to get a free pass and of course we know that relations between israel and saudi arabia are are right being that they're getting closer and closer reports i've seen that even sharing intelligence here i mean do you think the crown prince thought he had two really powerful forces in his corner and he was going to go out and make his bid in one fell flat on its face go ahead moment. yes i think that the saudi regime is counting very much on trump support and i think. our your good guest in the united states suffered a lot at the hands of the saudi ruling family because of his criticisms of trump if

i'm not mistaken. there's rarely a connection with saudi arabia of course i think it's really more hurtful to saudi arabia than it thinks because in public in the public opinion in the region people recognize israel as an apartheid state that has kept palestinians basically in concentration camps in gaza and the which is treating them as has subhuman and any the close of the relationship gets the more unpopular the saudi regime becomes but i'd like to also point out a couple of other things about what's going on in saudi arabia and why i think that . this is very dangerous for the stability of the regime itself to be erratic behavior is not only with regards to it's sudden arrests of all these influential people and it's not just the war where they're slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people due to disease and starvation although the western media for two years

has been saying ten thousand people have been killed they don't want to tell the real numbers but then we see what he did in the tatar and outrageous behavior that the saudis showed towards that heavy people and based they tried to strangle them as well they humiliated the prime minister of lebanon and forced him to grovel in front of the king how would investors come to a country when even a foreign prime minister has no protection in the country but the most important thing i think is that saudi arabia something is a bit like libya it is not like egypt or iran which has a it's a nation state with an identity. it's founded upon him in the view was founded upon one person and when he was killed when he was here when he left the scene the country fell apart and saudi arabia if if mohamed bin some money grows weaker as a result of the. immense amount of money that he's wasting in yemen in killing the

and all the other crap multiple crises at home and abroad if saudi arabia grows unstable i don't think that the country will remain intact. i know that you are a critic of the saudi government presumably you may be one of the ones where you're living in the u.s. if you could give the crown prince advice what would that advice be and what would be the advice to israel and the united states for example he was the void one marauder despite all the temptation. to rule this wired how smart is the end with that is our stuff to the current database but is it hard to be asleep during the course of history isn't he doing just the opposite. but i thought law but that was my advice to avoid being a one month rule he need to broaden the consensus you need to create some form for the bucket to see out about him he enjoys the support of the people did is no

question of that it timoci in saudi arabia. it's very quick solution could be a something like the chinese communist party would it where they have a huge membership of. equal people who could contribute and share power saudi arabia is going through a major transformation that existed to get to the country and that should not be looked did you think. you think saudi arabia can survive this transformation it's seems to me really in severe doubts that it could on the past years on right now yes no i think. in the short term we're saudi arabia has enough forward enough legitimacy enough for us to survive for. the coming years but challenges from within isn't even facing one hundred seven month high expectation that he measures that people don't know how it is it will have any of those things

go ahead go ahead and be a row does it have power and legitimacy how does that saudi arabia have the power legitimacy to carry through any of its agendas the arab league is as good as gone the g.c.c. is as good as gone you know am no no no no initiative that's hard is it doing is that only we were it all let me just let me go on it only comes with money and saudi arabia is bankrupt in terms of muslim legitimacy let's tell you're a no no no no no we have we're the relationship with israel and it will have my friend you know what peter boehner and think this is going to and i think that it's going to end with the custody and ship of the two holy mosques gone and they're deploying a very dangerous game whereas most of the countries in this region want stability and would like saudi arabia to act as they did before. you know with consensus and a system that was cautious and looked at its neighborhood in a very cautious tentative way before it. sees we have a saudi arabia gone rogue ok john i'm able to sustain jeremy hour and legitimately

here now please respond before and then i want to go to my home and before we end the program go ahead ok the vertically spots on tokyo and for almost thirty perspective of took in from within saudi arabia i'm not seen sold if i would cite the people of saudi arabia their support to. support the monarchy dose of what the system this is a reality there are difficulties which are economic meanly some difficulties are foreign but the country is stable ruled the country for ok maybe five six years with what would let's watch other news but tea house to fix the unemployment problem let me just let a serious risk let me let me go to mohammed he had that he could get that if we're rapidly running out of time mohamed let me go to you i would i would i would put forward the following is that all of the problems that saudi arabia is experiencing

internally and its foreign policy are all self-inflicted wounds every single one go ahead. well look look at first without a doubt the saudi regime basically is. is is is not is putting the lives of people like john mark who's defending saudi arabia right now cannot go back to his own country this is the state of affairs in saudi arabia and the so did the united states when they occupied iraq they were infinitely more powerful than saudi arabia and look what iraq did to the american economy so do you arabia is engaging in mass murder in yemen it is spending its money like there's no tomorrow it's confronting a tad it's confronting syria iraq it's been it's been the confronting iraq for years and now lebanon and iran it is at home it's now dealing both with the

clerics as well as the royal family ministers and this arresting generals as well this is definitely not a regime that has the sort of harm it can put on his side i'm sorry i wish i'd like to get away with it but with run out of time fascinating discussion many thanks to my guests in washington and in beirut and in turn around and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk.

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lebanese prime minister saad hariri finally arrives home following his surprise resignation in riyadh over two weeks ago. president vladimir trump and donald but glad to hear putin excuse me and donald trump have held a telephone conversation topics discussed included syria iran and north korea. google openly val's to do you rank r.t.m. sputnik playing it. why audience. feel.