midsomer of china's growth it's all too big fan of yours for a long time. now it's generally believed that the position of an addiction is the first step toward coming clean and in that sense russia's excessive reliance on hydrocarbons has long been recognized but i wonder if it has been recognized as something unequivocal about something that needs to be broken where. well i wouldn't completely of the alcoholism and the had been some initial resources in the service of course is a disease which is imposed by the be here or the second one is a structural problem russia cannot get rid of the hydrocarbons and until european union stops to buy a cup. and because of the enormous overwhelming amounts of cash coming from the hydrocarbons so hard to fight for the diversification of the participants are they to nomics the route make your original decisions or abandon it would be the better a source of margins good into the water but from what i understand does it is not

just excessive reliance on oil and gas it's more about. high appreciation of the currency that makes other sectors either less competitive or less attractive for foreign investors and in that sense i wonder if you believe in the euro from the very skeptical and critical of the russian government if you believe that the russian authorities. had enough instruments prior to two thousand and fourteen to encourage other sectors and to. off sad at the facts of that very sharp robel appreciation well i would leave the two to the chorus appreciation and even would not talk about course a professional talks can also can be controlled by other factors russia is the ribs on pour the pure duchesses of the. the plant or the oil price exclusively with her fault. because of the policies or other factors of the world can buy but

pursue and doesn't affect the economy that much and as we saw in the in the ruble depreciation after the prices fall russia could sustain the foreign currency and could find the ground of this free fall. and that was partially this from what i understand because russia actually did try to. counterbalance its dependency on oil and gas by sort of. stashing the winfall income away in various funds it wouldn't say that because if you look at the resource which was your token for the reserves the reserves didn't follow substantial now we we still increase that was that. it was merely because russian government the will of the problem the they were out of the good the the all prices fell the the ruble price fell the imports squeezed the the exports squeezed to the

consumption fell all the perimeter so the whole of the question were adjusted to just stay in the equilibrium and this would probably be moot smart policy or on the overcoming of the crisis of related to the. to the problems with yourself or to the main focus of your column and on the other side which you are talking about the there are sufficient policy of the those this is not limited to the current suppress it it is reflected in the whole structure of the economy when you heard the major of the. demeanor source which you feel the economy for all of the. the meter will desire to centralize those to control it this is exactly what the president putin was talking about here and i think it was the end of two thousand and fourteen news here and of the conference when i think he came closest to actually being apologetic because he's often asked about

his mistakes but there from what i can remember that was the closest admission of in this take he said that we don't have enough time we didn't put enough effort into diversify the economy so you're actually agreeing with him that the structural forces for or against illusions to the east. definitely dream of mr put another half of us were put in there but but on top of the of the government didn't want to diversify the economy not to lose control over the economy or the state because they saw what happened in maine to sort of the attempts of diversification led to the diversification of the source of all the elections minus and different people in different part of trying to win over the country gone or just didn't want it to happen any more so the nationalists of the whole source of the resources which led to the oil production and all exports and control over the fields and because of their own because of the excessive margin they just couldn't do anything else all

the attempts to do or say five led to the enterprise a switch were inefficient from from the beginning was the major the major intention was to spend the budget to leave the poor the north to bring it up to the little the global who are competitive but all of that and that i see him in two thousand and fourteen when russia experienced a turning point politically and economically not least because of a double whammy of both decreasing oil prices and restricted access you western financing i wonder if it can all make diversification now becomes not so much. of aspiration but i make anomic inevitability or at least a necessity for the current government if it wants to keep its control in the country well as be released the solution is not there to amount we we still wish to leave will still see even been included maskell with a good car. right in the streets. the government just doesn't feel the necessity of

the tourists were full price at about sixty dollars per bar was for us much better than ten years ago so i can took allows a barge of two to be even almost human and their worst can be financed by the increase of the barrel low debt. and all the reforms and all that they were sophists may lead to unexpected three problems. at least when you talk to people who are early to the go home and who do fly in the palaces in certain ways none of them dear to see we we were going to go for what is interesting have you know when i talk to some people in the government my impression is actually quite different i think they were pretty scared by what they experience in two thousand and fourteen and they are still not sure whether these international pressure is over so from that point of view. there is pretty much no noise came by to try to prop up other

sectors of the economy for the cash generating reasons a little it says there is a difference between private talks and public toilets there is a position of the government which allows them to believe international sanctions for the problems of the economy which which which is not in total from my view will central didn't harm the economy here they will but they did not but they countered their limited access to western financing and western technology reaches out that are critical for example in a finance is not we have enough money now if you look at the council the banks in the central but. or through the nobles what's look at the resource which are almost forty percent of our g.d.p. so to five percent of our g.d.p. it's enormous reserves and the dead is very low and the prince is limited to a certain number of companies and some number of ways of financing and you if you need you can raise money it's not a problem the problem is technologists and we just start to feel. like it will be

for russia to develop or for the existence of national technology markets but not here we don't see it in g.d.p. a top now one of the successful outcomes at least marketed tests as a successful outcome of the last two years is the larger cultural. stimulus program and the liberal community in russia is often very disapproving of those countries sanctions they. operate a trade as ideological south harm as as an effort to penalize your own population because you're powerless to do anything else that they're perceived with the perceived abuser but i wonder from the comic point of view it wasn't that sharp ruble depreciation that we experienced in two thousand and fourteen two thousand and fifteen wasn't it actually crying for something like that wasn't the most opportune time economically to introduce that crutch that the industry has long been calling for. well general all this and ascensions of this agricultural

development is a big miss out for us there are cultures of very little margin because of the sheer of the g.d.p. in more than consciousness less than one point five percent of us was less than three percent of the g.d.p. in the wall the sure they had a culture fail by a factor of two in both fifteen years so it's not enough to now say when the culture is going out of the big picture it's it's a peripheral business which we need to maintain we need to what but it's no defect of the prosperity but i mean from their labor point of view or employing the people social point of view you know maintain it's not as though the more we do the list people are employed than they were the movie go forward with the drawings with the automotive g.p.s. tractors and other machines will have less and less people employed so the fact that we easily get this year all this business just shows how the rest of the waters get rid of those bits with it with eagerness and them on top of their look

at what we did we didn't agree. which is under sanctions we would never grow extension great. neat and poor can. trust us not in the central sun second the trend. away before the two thousand and fourteen and if nothing else well i am on the south confidence that they you know they actually can do something when they put their mind to it rather than believing that all the money because of russia and perennially wait isn't that actually pretty valuable the the belief among the government officials that they can actually achieve something when they put their mind to it i don't know if they believe that the victory in the field which which is by two percent of the file both fifteen twenty percent through ten years in the economy they was tough for the defense experts thought that fifteen billion dollars. to thirty. oh fifteen to bold six billion

dollars all the gains will be in a culture much listen to this law. it's a piece it's a false belief now you're usually quite critical of the kremlin for what you perceive as passivity in introducing anomic reforms in. a propensity of the kremlin to sort of float with the tide rather than being proactive the complacency but i think that is part of their watch larger debate in russia on the role of personality not only in history but also in economics we have a very long battle in balancing out the pains and the gains and you alluded to that previously don't you think that russia does present a historic case for being a little bit more risk averse than the rest who are so. incensed of fearing social consequences of painful reforms for example. well we'll it's it's

a true christian because we're going to win you lose your reforms you end up. if risk aversion means satan for free all it well mr muskerry have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned. i think you.

are. welcome back to worlds apart that i dream of child director of the economic policy program at the carnegie moscow center mr my child just to pick up where we left the economy and politics are always interconnected but in russia it is even more the case i think the economy in russia is a mirror image of politics they're both have the least centralized given to inertia with a high degree of monopolies risk averse. and it is clear that changing one is impossible

without changing and the other but i wonder in your view which one will have to show the way is it the economy or the political structure is a question of the the conventional wisdom the kind of the conditions change politics twice of us if only a few want to impose a new politics on the world economy conditions usually free. these pollutions equate to use of the influential groups the groups who control the economy they have powers to change the politics in their free because the old economy let's say of the old economy favors the old influential groups and they always of the other conventional wisdoms apply to russia all the time anyway not what's what what's what's what's not to people to rush the you know the group or to lawyers a political way away where this was the would not be won because i think russia is a pretty alice in credit country and them both in terms of its values both in terms

of its development it has the elements. sometimes contradictory elements that other countries don't i don't recognise them in in a great picture of course of course every country has its specifics that but if you look at russia in terms of the broad economy or science you would see or through the pentagon country which is is there's been group or sort of the new country and there is sort of change but not the dependency a country of big totals of the population of the country which experiences that claim power or. all the laws are pretty much a political if you look at our neighbors in terms of. power all pumping capacity you will see iran. and russia in general being brought a combination of all this for neighbors with a future so for each of them and nothing else it's quite easy to decompose the policies of the economies of the country if you look at that if you forget about

the specific spirits and historial for brevity or i know that the you came of age after the collapse of the soviet union you have many friends and acquaintances among russia's financial and banking sector and as much as we can blame put in power for problems for corruption and administrative influences of pressures on the concourse i think it's often the business elites. exploits the state and court machinery for its own personal or private gain we talked about government our government's readiness or the lack of their off to change producing the country's business especially while connected business is ready to play by the law if we come to the frivolous question we're putting stars on we'll put an ounce what is put as a one person is the thousand people as a town thousands of people essentially the there are some go on of the russian elite mr putin and so they try to reflect the of the state this way they have so

much of the support because they reflect on the parishioners some of the expectations of the society or the state is bad the elites could become a bit better. we i would believe in put and not proof or world making the come to wars but not making the country but. if you look at small developments which we all can't take the small example the trust us and alliance and their authors or the all the bells the safe to build on the cars of the the country managed to make people obey the rules so it's possible it's absolutely possible why wouldn't you think they would be wouldn't obey the law you for being dictator well i think ours and there are people usually have no problem of being the law i think it's the powerful people who have a problem with that and the case in point would be a very high profile trial in russia these days of former economic development the minister alex ala kind of and he's accuser. session both of whom represent

different factions within the russian governance system i wonder how do you read that case and i'm not asking about the corruption charges not the content of the case but rather the conduct of that case and the fact that many say it did not play out as it was expected because initially it was expected that interception is somebody who is totally above the law. well i don't think we have enough people to read boldness of his case the case is not out of the context we don't know how the relations between the members of the lead are being structured we see we sure distance sounds or much more complicated process is good on the palace. station is frowned on an enemy of different people that have their mighty people around him supporting him or fearing him or fighting him we saw the recent report of sperm bank which is different clear sign of a war which is the clear to games team by another group of people. particularly

with government career can bring you back to the issue of course because a few look at the course of the polls rather the russian people don't trust russian course system much but they use it a lot and i think the most high profile endorser and defender of that system is actually vladimir putin himself bored by the statute and by his rhetoric if it continues to play this game of cat and mouse with the courts and he has already ignore them a couple of someone's into the court wouldn't that challenge. interact lee does not doesn't that present a certain. threat to the integrity of the idea of putting himself as the garonne terror of both the constitution and the coarsest and more generally if you just started to with of the disrespect which which people in the society have to the courts why no one respected the lack of trust it's quite a different matter pretty much the same thing. people if you don't if you don't

respect the institution you would not turn to it and russian people actually go to the court in large numbers that's the reason why the court system i saw or heard of for forces not their clutches i'm developing this by by a by the degree so you can even leave the goo they are the leader and if you talk to people they will tell you the first thing you need to good do if you don't play to the court to find somebody to. give the bride to to win the puts them everybody knows hold the course rule and we're the toast inspection is included in the course folks we know hold the whole hold the chords starting with the phone the three and the ucas keys were treated them to them all the course on the film was bus mommy court for example holding a parade. of them even if we know all that why would we expect mr station to respect the court well specifically because that would not challenge a lot of impressions intended to the business not because that would put it is not a sushi to to the court system would come in i mean when you look at the news and

you see that there is one person in the country who could ignore court summons repeatedly on a vitamin put in still keeps insisting that's a very significant part of his rhetoric that this is after the court i cannot intervene in the court system in the court proceedings doesn't that make right or put him look like a fool no i don't see any contradiction to the are says he's above that he doesn't care if men are just overruled the courts the time if he doesn't she doesn't it's as if it's a forced me to who has more power in the sun as a boat over it and easing that the run if indeed it is allowed to overhaul the cordy's thing that would not damage the credibility of that curtain now because mr misimpressions because ability is about that. decisions because ability would arise because he can outplay the court well i i beg to disagree with you but since we're already describes the economic and potentially courtier forms

let me ask you about the political reform there is a wide consensus among political commentators that if i didn't put in runs for another term is main objective for the next six years would be winning russia of his own letter ship to create hopefully create a system that would be relying on stronger institutions that would make the question of power transition. a little bit less riskier for terrorists than it is right now do you think he can do that in six years or pretty much successfully managed by ever a tight group of people. the organisation of the management is much more like a primitive group the situational society and so far it works then the conversion to the institutional society may mean pause many threats to the group and to person that it isn't out already happening because if you take. for example the palliative care in in moscow it was nonexistent a decade ago but there was

a little hospice started by essentially a voluntary community and now that whole volunteer community took over the whole palliative care in moscow that's actually had a great victory well maybe a little victory but it's a great it's a victory for the institutions and i assume the same things are happening perhaps not on the economic level because it's highly my knee intensives here but on the other in the other areas especially in when it comes to social protection don't you see it does growth of institutions of the civil society because even if you look at the international i think it was their world bank members russia has the second largest number of volunteers in the world and the number keeps growing. i couldn't comment on the numbers i just don't know the numbers i know the numbers of troops but we know the level of care to for example procure to you know developed countries as a degree hertha the brush and they would in the countries of the field walled it's

usually much higher. but then i don't see the connection between the high powered the volunteer movements especially given the father's walter movements are pretty much suppressed in the regions and the mosque. and i just don't see the science of all the change of the alderman tayla till the ruling elites will go in kwanzaa i will show them a few the the story will be all about the success can they challenge the last notion about not seeing the change in the mentality of the governing elites and just a few weeks ago why they were put in the was present at the wailing of the monument to the victims of quark and glocks and that is essentially in a morning meant to citizens who were abused by the state it's morning meant recognizing around this state crimes and for somebody who worked for. beer i would think psychologically that's. quite an achievement don't you think so

i never heard was of put on saying that he supports a stalinist regime or the british his position has been pretty much the same all through he's president super and you and before. you respond the teen who was to play pool the mass repressions and displayed many of my colleagues and men and liberals in the rush to accuse in the to keep the f.s.b. what i will call them the so put all of the persons to their wouldn't say that we can with computer theory the scales of the of the outcomes of the oppression of stalin terms and and now in the situation where the repression is a limited to the fight for the power. there is nothing new there or it mr putin is just consistent in what he says twenty years ago but maybe it is a sign of some consideration going up above about the brawl of the state and the

state's responsibility for its citizens as well as taking steps you'll recognize the crimes that there were done by the state before i just don't see the connection the crims will recognize with mr hu show from the twenty five twenty five council of the prior to rates of many years a good citizen nobody change that apart from very marginal people who do not want to recognize the real but at the same time you know yourself participated in their recent project called stalin gave orders to reach challenge the what some would term the revival of. that a stallion. i would call it praise are you know giving more prominence to stalin then he does or says suddenly you are concerned about that and a look we hear from the normal two to three percent of the population being read the course and in one way or another of a man then there are there are now to some there are stalin supporters some all that duerson all the problem is the usual for any cut rate if you look at another

country you would see your dick. that's pretty much the same percentage you need to fire them of course you need to put them all to spread the infix doesn't consume kraemer and i wouldn't see. what mr my child we have to leave it there i really appreciate your time and tell our viewers please share your comments now at twitter facebook and youtube pages and i hope the same place same time here on worlds apart . seen years ago i traveled across the united states exploring america's deadly love affair with a gun if

a bad guy tried to get to one of my family members he would have better a lot better and i think they are and hurting one of my my babies since my book was published in the year two thousand more than hoffa million americans have been killed by far olds in the us and we had a thought to me as i did this this is a middle school we go through drills and we put ourselves some real scenarios it was interesting to see who actually got hit by the gun i just saw i did to return to the subject to track down each gun owner who i'd met and photographed those years your god i don't know this but we are not. was it to americans by the. unfortunate the financial support of some. contrie in the.

for making unsafe. i. was. new. to. the. modern day slavery in libya triggers angry protests in several european capitals. in brussels the protest against slavery

descends into riots and looting with almost one hundred people arrested. over the washington apparently provoked promises to cut weapons supplies to its kurdish allies fighting in syria it was seen as a move to peace talks the white house though is reluctant to go into details. and the number of deaths in an attack on a mosque in egypt rises to over three hundred the government says the gunman was carrying. a gun will be here next hour with you with a look back at the top news of the week coming.