his name is john pilger the award winning author and filmmaker who revealed to the world not only the horrors of nature wars but the deliberately hidden abuse of power by nato governments a retrospective of his entire film work is now being held at the british library where gulmarg to change a third of the world within decades of writing there the british library festival celebrates the acquisition of six decades of print film and radio from john pilger you can go and see some of the films and watch john pilger talk at the british library on the ninth and tenth of december he joins me now john thanks for coming back on what's your reaction to this other ration of your work in the british library well i'm absolutely delighted the british library is is a wonderful institution. and i went to an exhibition the year or two ago about propaganda. and i thought it was really splendid. so to be included in the iraq. is

a particular wrong let's go to your first documentary i mean the british journalists are being sent to war zones right now and we never were there when yugoslavia afghanistan libya of course syria and they always tend to show british troops fighting for queen and country this ticket clip from this film nine hundred seventy the quiet mutiny where that doesn't seem so apparent. purpose in the war back home to me explain to me why we're actually you know i really want to kill him right through the draft states and be attacked by the way you can tell here cute in fact to stop playing to be done about me well of course they didn't have any intention of doing anything about me the founder of granada television city bones and more bernstein actually wrote to the sunday times saying it was a very kind of. journalism that he want to see more of more of

such different days you talk about the use of drugs you talk about psyops units and you talk about a press conference language because you're seen in a quiet mutiny asking questions about and we've got to remember this is a war we guarantee if it is now saying up to four million killed by by the united states the the language used to talk about war even in this first of your films well the five o'clock follies for the daily press conference and the interesting thing is that most journalists didn't believe a word of what was said by the u.s. spokesman i mean i have to say one almost felt sorry for him at times but i asked i thought what a pertinent questions and the question i asked in the film was how many u.s. servicemen how many u.s. soldiers had been cooled by mistake or by accident in vietnam

and friendly fire and the answer was more than fifty percent it was a shocking statistic it was a war of chaotic mistakes of disasters willfully began willfully executed but a war of terrible error as his prevarication his wavering when he didn't answer the question itself spoke volumes ok let's go to a clip now from here zero the silent death of cambodia. these children are the end of a process began by impeccable politicians who took their decisions at great distance from the results of the savitri. this may have differed from pol pot's but the effect was the same the bombs are like falling rain child in nine hundred seventy three a year in which the tonnage of bombs dropped on cambodia exceeded by ha the entire

tonnage dropped on japan in world war two the price of a cambodian life was incidentally one hundred dollars compensation making year zero was something of a turning point for me i've never seen anything like it. when with my crew and david munroe my director and i made many films. very pipe of the photographer when we arrived in pen it was as if a ball my great bomb exploded and killed all the people left the buildings standing it was devastation population had been forced marched into the countryside and then the first monsoon rains the surreal which was there all the time really

added to this with millions of dollars worth of bank notes flowing from the bank of cambodia which the camaro rouge had blown up as they fled and so the symbols within cambodia was of people were the main symbol was i suppose of i for one know. trying to light a fire with banks it's cambodia represented the. whole distortion of the human experience the raining of bombs on a defenseless peasant people and so that that impact we didn't do anything we didn't film nothing for we was so we were so almost hypnotized horrified by this and yet you showed the connections with the u.s. policy coming out state department cambodia is no

a would be used to describe the failure of the left in developing nations the failure of communism and just explain explain that even if it was in your film you're going to acting it up with the new imperialist policy coming out of washington was quite interesting the reaction to it had always stuck simply to assaulting people's emotions. those children you saw there even though you mention money in the clip we just gave it had i stuck to it and not can text realized it and said that this has been brought about by this by by bombing by huge moral corruption cambodia then was a stricken country under sanctions no less from the united states even though the camaro rouge i got and the committee ridges represented in the members were big support at the command fled to the top border where they were being supported.

by the west and the commanders represented the by the united nations was recognized by the world so as a moral contortion this was quite epic the conditions that created it the conclusion you were created by the american bombing. the cia reports that came out following is zero. were very clear they said the nie power phrase al bombing provided the catalyst for the rise and rise of a small sect in the country never of come to power had we not kissinger and nixon and a huge assault because the why that's what i'll be talking about at the podium or wherever. if people have the information of why i things i've had is the role of a documentary to make at least

a political as un some is that we didn't ask for any money the british people gave well i'll give you an example and sends people well isn't it went if we saw where it went because the next we showed view view is we also than oxfam is a slightly different. and ourselves. we both factories nation had been ordered to where will we provided antibiotics who know what we're all i written this for the daily mirror primary schools using my phone people of cambodia it became not so much charity. because the film itself was a political fight was job thanks south african leaders had no sin mandela told the civil coming of it but to. what politicians do you should. put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you see this like them

before. they should. welcome back us still here with legendary journalist and filmmaker john pilger join up until the questionable victory of the idea but i'd struggle let's go to a clip where you rather than just celebrating the the freedom of nelson mandela finally you challenge him i read that in bangkok the shia you said we are willing to deal with any region irrespective of the internal policies of any country is that is that correct oh you know something that would have happened to south africa if that the fed had been applied during the struggle. if that attitude of tolerance had been applied surely apartheid modified last longer than it did there is

a really good fundamental difference with a point that i should say every other journalist at this time was celebrate the same ones that were calling him a terrorist actually on british media would now celebrating the freedom of this man well it's a lot to celebrate. and i celebrated to show he done twenty seven years inside and he's an extraordinary man of mystery for that of his you're his death and jazz is extra extra absolutely all the advise and the first thing he said when i met him he he said it's a great owner to have been banned from like tree i've never become the president of a country you've been to suggest something like even if you would to me yes one of the early questions i asked him was. you've been really made into a saint at how do you feel about that he said that it's not the job i applied for.

him to hear the good sense of irony although he didn't like the challenge and it was a time when mandela was being treated as a saint by all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons white liberals in south africa who really got away the white population let's say what the white population had got away scot free actually and mandela was they take it because he made south africa respectable again i challenge mandela on a few things one what he said when he was released that all the great industries and the resources of south africa the gold in the minerals in the mines would come under public ownership and be owned by the people that the freedom

chahta which the a.n.c. said that it stood by would apply and he says it does in this film with this he did he says it does but it doesn't and that's what he said to me in in this interview. i have to tell you that privatized sation is the fundamental policy of the a.n.c. and i said to him but that's the very opposite of what you said when you were released and that got me into quite a bit of trouble because i was seen as being disrespectful to mandela by even challenging him but that full apartheid did not die which said there were two apartheid there was racial apartheid and there was economic one would say class but economic apartheid economic apartheid did not change and today i've just been in south africa economic

apartheid runs right through the country. the majority of its people over thirty million still live in the most grinding poverty while i was there there was a terrible case not untypical of a young black kid who drowned in a school latrine pit in the same newspaper so i turned the pages they was south africa's first black billionaire that south africa has almost become a kind of model for an economic apartheid across the world and that hasn't changed and i suppose that was the essence. that was fairly clear to me at the time when i interviewed mandela that was really the only question that as a journalist i could ask him it was a terribly respectful. interview and we spent some time chatting

afterwards and so on so but he had said one thing and then said another thing. and the other thing did not offer any real help to the majority of his people in which. who would put such faith in him not only in him but the whole a.n.c. apparatus he was he was very very faithful very loyal to the a.n.c. and then see now as it's got a bad reputation in south africa i'm not talking about white people we're talking about the majority of people i'm going to say that question did inspire me to ask am in a few years later when he was selling arms in the middle east doesn't matter himself why is it you think that through a lot of your fans as it was around the world you are known for your foreign

affairs documentaries and filmmaking and yet you made school is a films attacking abuses of power in this country you know and the same people who adore your films in certain foreign countries and others maybe forget about the ones you made against britain british policy when i first came to britain from a straight. i was sent to by the daily mirror to work and it was live in the north of england and this was during the most ferocious winter since the seventeenth century and i didn't have a coat but i love the place i was almost just in the end of the industrial revolution in the sixty's and the mines were still operating so here was another clause of britain's i drew personally and professionally very

close. to understanding that great industrial history and its struggle i knew that in australia i knew it through my parents and so i was i think quite committed at that stage to write and film quite a lot about the struggle in this country and to hear its witnesses. and i made one film for granada called conversations with a working man and it was simply jack who was a dive work in keathley in yorkshire who spent his days standing up in di up to is up to is knees almost and i'll stay in what he thought about and what he's politics were and what his

passions were and i got more from that interview from jack and from his family i think than from many interviews i've done with people with great institutional titles their objects these days of course they work in in in in great warehouses. packaging up things to send us and they work in the so-called hospitality business and so and if i was starting again perhaps i'd go to them but it's the one i would think it is the one major element missing and that is the story of work and the story of working people the media although the accents of changed there's plenty of diversity. but the story of working class people and how they think

and speak and what they want is still in many respects in many respects suppressed in particular the attack of course the broadcasters here in britain not just the b.b.c. but to this day by day to b.b.c. when it comes to their coverage of wars and that's a good play appear from the war you don't see where you cross-examine someone from the b.b.c. . who's the palestinian equivalent of mark rego who appeared so often who's the palestinian equivalent of all those mainly female israeli spokespeople during operation cast lead who is who is there are quite fluent articulate in english given given the space right at the top of b.b.c. news who i think that's a very good point you know if you all these people yes it was nothing you see that's not our job to go out and point the palestinians to experts or say you're

impartial surely you would find somebody to be yes i've missed the rigor of saying his say but then he's equivalent we do and we did you don't actually you don't have an equivalent of mark reg of that's just not true just because there isn't an equivalent of marek it doesn't mean to say that we didn't allow those viewpoints which you've just expressed to be heard across the range of our output and greg of now the israeli ambassador to britain indeed indeed is going up assuming that's a promotion what did this really see gandhi i mean the b.b.c. is has the most brilliant production values it produces. the most extraordinary natural history and drama series but the b.b.c. is and has long been the most refined propaganda service in the world i find the double standards these. bogus attacks on r.t.

. if you compared with the the. b.b.c.'s record of the suppression. i remember calculating during the irish war something like forty eight major b.b.c. programmes either. and dr good or delayed but around the b.b.c. there's the sort of cult that if you into the b.b.c. you immediately rise to an avant the of of impartiality and there are two sides to everything that's nonsense to begin with but the b.b.c. is an extension of the established order in this country i don't think that's even controversial it just is it does some very fine work but it just isn't for to claim that it isn't another has really subverting the british state by giving another

view is just absurd if journalists out there watching but want to be like you they don't want to go to this exhibition what are they supposed to do that learns maybe they've got their first job it how do they get to emulate well they shouldn't i shouldn't think of emulating anybody just being themselves following the star themselves being themselves being true to themselves many don't really want to go into this kind of. they want to go into rather more but niner is of journalism whatever but those who do it's difficult but they should stay true to themselves and that's difficult they have to almost learn to navigate through systems and not be deterred by people along the way i know that sounds rather trite but it it is what they need to do if they want to keep going the moment

they accept say the b.b.c. view with the world that there are only. i have the two sides right auger but both sides are on what we call the establishment so. then it's over. thank you and that's it for the show will be back on wednesday when is it going price fluctuations scares the market we speak to the russian federation's deputy minister of economic development but the new crypto ruble children keep in touch via social media with your wednesday nineteen years to the day they do their job as victorious and that is where the presidential elections a platform from which will transform the lives of millions of venezuelans are going to be policies supported by the media and western europe's largest socialist but the jury pool that. michael flynn emits lying to the f.b.i.

the reaction of russia gators and the liberal media is jubilation but why when submission in fact deflates the now popular conspiracy theory. palestine is getting international recognition with the help of israel at least in the world of zoos him in build it was dismissed it to do it looking like you know. these with my complicity is going to have no phil saviano maybe you know john it would be. the only palestinians who gets the most hope from its jerusalem counterparts i don't think this is about those who are on the vision there are no one who could give us. and that is all of us not just you have to this lady of the muscle that you had i don't want you to compete in gaza as you do more commitments also don't put results.

of guns on those knots is not that can quit place is not a good country and. yes if the minister philipp much of a muchness well above the scope. of this but at the message this is. just the culture. of the cult of less sure of the checking of christmas. pulling in just little and bias from a fellow muslim of oneself to be a little. mostly helpless fossil. play almost anything for the members for the last the last second our better john said i'm based on our much less credit card number can i do not the last hour we just write this contract make matter how not eating. from a shell it cannot. change fuck man i can now move he was almost feeling now with the fuckin on a cool let's see this original song and now fargo show you go to sleep i don't want

to go to the snooze in the my car forces in there to do whatever the street. sassy cinema bhargava of the lousiest series who are supposed to. graphic and disturbing video emerges showing the body of the former yemen president ali abdullah saleh is understood to have been killed by who the fighters are the lines between them collapsed last week also to come this hour the president of mali contradicts the french account of an airstrike in northern mali you know tell you by saying the bombardment killed soldiers not jihadists and another attraction from a made us media outlet over coverage of the scandal surrounding the white house and team from alleged collusion with russia.

but i welcome good evening comes to life.