group together without. her. odd. hey everybody i'm stephen bob. taft hollywood guy the suspect every proud american first of all i'm just george washington and r.v.'s to say this is my buddy max famous financial guru and well he's a little bit different i'm not a good one no one knows up with all the drama happening in our country i'm shooting the road have fun meet everyday americans. mom cooks the start to bridge the gap this is the great american pill which. elliston is getting international recognition with the help of israel at least in

the world of zoos remember wolf it was dismissive to do it like a million pieces and my complicity is still going on no phil saviano maybe. no shot without a tough job with a ship the only palestinians is who gets the most help from is still loose on counterparts i don't think there's some of those who in the world under the oak vision the only good give is a book and the earth is all of us not just the heart of this lady of the muscle that you had i'm going to continue in the doesn't seem to do more of the most awesome don't piss off.

hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle donald trump's this asian to move the u.s. embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem signals washington now deems this to be israel's capital reaction was easy to predict various degrees of dismay how this is in america's interest is difficult to fathom the law of unintended consequences is surely in play. across talking jerusalem i'm joined by my guest philip giraldi and personal he is a former cia counterterrorism specialist who is now executive director of the counsel for the national interest in washington we have grant smith he is the director of the institute for research of middle eastern policy as well as author of big israel how israel's lobby moves america and in philadelphia we cross to greg roman he is the chief operations officer for the middle east forum on a german cross like rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime you want and

i always appreciate philip let me go to you first here donald trump ran on the platform of making america great again how is that. greg nice thing jerusalem israel's capital in advancing that agenda making america great again and i would it's making american foreign policy great again i don't know go ahead philip you know well that's that's the fundamental question here i mean basically people like myself. people who consider themselves patriotic americans are wondering when donald trump is going to start deliver the levering on changing our foreign policy which has been destructive of the united states in this particular case. you have to ask what does the united states and what do americans get out of this they don't get anything out of this century this is going to create a lot of problems having been a diplomat overseas myself i can tell. do that at the security is going to have to

go through the roof of embassies and military installations around the world american tourists are going to be potential targets of terrorism much more so than they are now american businessmen are going to have to consider the security costs of setting up a business overseas so there's going to be a whole lot of downside to this decision it's not just a simple decision about where somebody puts an embassy this has a lot of consequences to it and if you read the media today that that's coming out after this story explaining how it came to be you'll find that there was a lot of pushback words from people in the administration who didn't want to do this but trump and says that he would do it ok greg and same question i mean and maybe even further what how is that in america's interest and how is that in israel's interest both question both countries same question go ahead greg in philadelphia. so on the american side we see that effectively we've been recognizing through solicitors capital since nine hundred forty nine american

presidents secretaries of state and other diplomats often visit their israel's parliaments there the prime minister's office the president's office and the supreme court so after thirty years of peace processing from when george schultz announced that the p.l.o. was the representative the palestinian people back in eighty eight until today we've seen a process where america has taken the position of a neutral arbiter between the palestinians and the israelis and has gotten us anywhere and fact in so far as the palestinians have been able to get concession after concession from the israelis they've responded with violence so i think what trump is doing is he's flipping the peace paradigm on its head instead of sort of making israel make concessions he's saying to the palestinians the future of american foreign policy will move forward with with or without you when it's time for you to get ok and so they go she on our terms ok ok well then number one i guess you're assuming let me go to grant here it that i agree the facade that america is a neutral arbiter is is fine the mask is finally off because it's been

a sure rod for decades ok i guess that is a good thing here i certainly no don't know what concessions the palestinians can make at this point they almost have nothing left to grant let me go to you i mean united states has been often called israel's lawyer now it looks like it's israel's real estate agent go ahead grant. this is the biggest disaster since one nine hundred seventy three when gold in my area convinced richard nixon not to advance the nuclear nonproliferation treaty when israel started building and trying to sell the apartheid south africa nuclear weapons five years later it's an unmitigated disaster it's making the us being dragged out of un security council resolution for seven eight by just saying we're no longer going to pressure israel to recognize the fact that it illegally seized easter. then tried in the nineteen eighties to claim it was all very as you know if this is the art of the

deal donald trump wrote back in the day. his first chapter must have said something like make all your concessions before negotiations start so what we're going to see forthrightly is that the israelis are going to say well now you have to realize and recognize that all of jerusalem is israel's and then they're going to say now you've got to recognize all of the illegal settlements are israel's and they're going to keep pushing and pushing and the sun last weekend free itself of the israel lobby is hold over the political campaign contribution process is just going to reel from disaster to disaster and undermine its own national security and credibility you know philip i'm glad that graham brought that up because you know of course i look at the mainstream media covering the story the last thirty six hours and you know i don't hear mention of resolution for seven eight in one eight one they're very germane to this thing here in united states by recognizing

jerusalem is the capital of israel is in violation of international law it's very very simple language you can look it up it's easy go ahead philip you have this is one of the interesting aspects of it the the fact is the united states technically is still. supports those resolutions and but the fact is the recognition of jerusalem as as israel's capital confuses a lot of different issues in terms of what what are the what is the legal status of jerusalem for example that that pretty much is still defined by the one nine hundred forty seven by the u.n. right when the state of israel was created it defined what would be the. situation of jerusalem as an international city under u.n. auspices that would be open to everyone but that of course went out the window when the the war or the fighting started between the israel. in the palestinians so basically we have a situation where the legal the legal issues are very clear and what i want to hand

but in practice very confusing so it's something that this is a mess that trump did not have to step into and it will only have bad consequences and yet he did it and yet he did it knowing full well from some of his advisors like tillerson that this is a very very bad idea you know greg weigh in on the international law aspect of it i mean i mention the two resolutions four seven eight and one eight one i mean. from your understanding these are they still in in force because everybody in the else in the world seems to think they are go ahead and i would point you to first that back in one thousand nine hundred seven and then in may of forty eight israel accepted that u.n. resolution and if it wasn't for the invasion of seven arab armies into jerusalem proper the illegal occupation of jerusalem but it didn't and that's what we know the resolution of in but it doesn't know the resolution i'm not saying in those resolution but if we want to talk about the status quo and see in the actual facts

of what's are on the ground right now we have to look at also u.n. resolutions two forty two which says that there will be a negotiation for what they consider to be disputed territories after u.n. resolution one eighty one dollars and so if you want to look at what is the customary international humanitarian law on this or are we all on a second there was plenty of the go she ations from the oslo process all the way through the end of the obama administration but not on jerusalem to give up one hundred percent of the land with land swaps on jerusalem to shore thought that i was in the heart of the line of reasoning you know the heart of this is final and settled and we all know that it would be part of that final settlement alternative is trying to do everything backwards ok and greg i'll get i'll give you i'll give you one point what we have seen over the last thirty years has failed i think that's true ok i would say it was and it was designed to fail here and let me go to grant here i mean you know my. what this is that they're going to recognize the u.s. is going to recognize gruesome is part of some plan that jared cushier is working

on that nobody knows anything about ok what could possibly the be the plan if you negotiate the status of jerusalem first instead of last what is he got up his sleeve if anything i don't believe it go ahead grant yeah there's there's no plan it's every time the u.s. . you know predominately zionist team to so-called negotiate anything they come back and they say well you know we didn't get anywhere and the problem with the entire sort of damocles that has been hanging over u.s. presidents in the one nine hundred ninety five jerusalem embassy act you know who wrote that act the zionist organization of america and apac and why did they write that act forcing the u.s. state department co or seeing the state department not to receive any funding for overseas installations until they built an embassy in jerusalem it's because israel and its lobby did wanted the preamble to the oslo peace process and they wanted to

preempt and the possibility that there would be a negotiation over the palestinian right to share jerusalem borders and the sort of issues that were on the table they wanted the preempted by making us presidents squirm under this ridiculous act unfortunately until recently no president's all the way with the campaign and promise the israel lobby that they move the embassy no president was actually willing to take the dangerous step of actually doing it you know it's just it's an unmitigated disaster and i mean it's let me. let me go to the embassy let me go to bill before we go to the chance let me go to before we go to the break here philip real quick before we go to the break here do you have much confidence in and jared cushion or has being. grand diplomatic metronomic or something like that go ahead no i have no confidence whatsoever i mean he has no experience whatsoever he's noted for his design his

ties his family basically. help pay for settlement activity that's illegal on the west bank this is a guy who is in israel first or as the expression goes and he surrounded by a group of israel first there is the us ambassador david friedman and green blatt and these people are all out for israel and as i keep saying i'm an american donald trump is an american president when is he going to represent american interests and protect the american people then by doing foolish things like this all these going to do is be costing us money and giving us pain ok i'm going to jump in here gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on jerusalem stay with archie.

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a tsunami of our government allows us. to see others who are supposed to. welcome back across like we're all things are considered on peter bell to remind you we're discussing jerusalem. ok great you one of the first things the reactions to trump announcement is that the alienation the arab world get all the way from saudi arabia to jordan to turkey . egypt but i think there's more of a here and i'll be quite cynical because politics is at its very heart cynical i get the impression that the saudis probably aren't so angry with this after all you know they don't care about the palestinians let's face it most arab countries don't

care about the palestinians they you know they use the issue when they want to they can turn up the volume and turn it down but you know over the last thirty years the arabs haven't done much for for the palestinians and so you know if there's any kind of grand bargain going on it's between cushion or in the great crown prince in saudi arabia which i given those two characters i would be a bit worried here but i think there's a kernel of truth of what i had to say there greg go ahead i couldn't agree with you more the palestinians are on the last thought of every arab leader they're more worried about their own countries and the biggest threat in the region is iran so with saudi arabia egypt and jordan all coordinating with israel now facing the specter of iranian dominance from lebanon syria iraq and iran i think that this is a bold move on trump right now to make the palestinians realize that they're boxed into a corner i mean historically wars and when one side loses and until the palestinians realize that they have lost this struggle for trying to get a state from the river to the sea from the jordan river to the mediterranean sea

they'll keep on being isolated so it's the palestinians who have the onus of coming to the table and all recognize that this. arrogant idea that everybody have but everybody abandons them and it's their fault and i think that's disingenuous here philip i saw you really saying there grimacing there. you know iran i guess it's all about iran it's always a rant i mean this is amazing your reaction philip it's about iran go ahead. well i mean this could be written by the israeli foreign ministry that iran is always the enemy as i was watching the movie one thousand nine hundred four last night you remember how they were permanent enemies and permanent friends who would shift every once in a while it's the same thing i mean the israelis need an enemy to justify the the horrific treatment they they have meted out to the palestinians and they justify it through this iranian enemy the iranians have not invaded or attack anybody and three hundred years the israelis make a regular practice of attacking their neighbors so who is the aggressive state it's

a very good point you know grant a lot of people will say oh you know they are there for the truth ok well that's a historical fact ok grant in washington here i mean again given trump's lack of interest in knowledge of foreign affairs which is i think quite transparent ok obviously this is all about domestic politics i mean this is a big done his part for the g.o.p. to be the more first of the of the first years for israel and it might be working ok and of course he's playing the evangelical card here i mean it's more about domestic politics here in my mind when it particularly when it comes to trump and we all know it and however you feel about us israeli policy you know trump is surrounded by people that are very very pro israel and profoundly anti ran go ahead grant. you know let me put some facts on the table according to a poll my organization did fifty six percent of americans were opposed to moving

the embassy to jerusalem brookings just put out a poll saying that while fifty percent of republicans supported it seventy percent of democrats were vehemently against it and they know it because it is a destabilizing move that could have again disastrous consequences for the u.s. now iran is not the bogeyman that the israel lobby says it is but they have. they're on track to be a six billion dollar industry in the united states by two thousand and twenty they have vast resources to spread like they did before the iraq war all of these concepts of weapons of mass destruction and threats to america which ultimately proved false they'd love americans to focus entirely on iran which is not a threat to the united states and they ignore this most destabilizing issue which provided motivation for the nine eleven hijackers you know you can almost see the glee in the israel lobby pond it's on the media in the us just saying check out the

arab street it's broiling it's going to burst into violence and we're going in oh poor israel we're going to have to face this backlash just like netanyahu said after nine eleven well this will be good for israel because the us will see what we're up against well now we have to stake a step back look at the bigger picture and see what's driving all of this it's not the u.s. interest the united states is not in the driver's seat it's this lobby that has erected such a hold over congress and the political process to the point where politicians cannot even launch a campaign without tapping it and providing a position paper giving away and supporting all of a pax position so it's a disastrous blow to us sovereignty and national security to continue letting israel make us foreign policy as americans essentially you know go along and go

with the flow for the money the support the vast amount of think tanks and other pundits who are saying this is it's a brilliant move it's very obviously not and americans are opposed to it and you ask them in a legitimate paul is this a good move they say no don't do it well i mean i think all of us know that the foreign policy elites don't care about public opinion and i don't know the last time when they did great let me ask you what is tonight. states get out of its relationship with israel i mean arms sales i mean what do they get out of it because as someone once said to me i will let you answer as someone said to me once you know you know before israel the united states didn't have any enemies in the middle east afterwards that has no friends ok go ahead great if you look at the first war that america fought it was with the middle east versus the barbary pirates in the early one nine hundred so that's just a false statement coming out of the barrel it was one hundred fifty years before it will not exist and after going back with that there is the all important israel

there is a very there's a lot of anti-americanism in the middle east and i think is is philip has pointed out with this move to leave and get worse that is my point so i'll ask my question again what does the united states get out of its relationship with israel go ahead so to look at the asset test between what the us is a relationship has i think that the joining of much second amik and trade benefits would serve associated with it but the fact that you have the only democracy in the middle east aligning with the only democracy that's really in a right spot right now in the west do you find that they're able to go forward i just want to kill if you want to be able to have sort of a killings having someone who hold office and u.s. trade relationship is already done with god is completely view on one second wait one second i had my yesterday and there you have your share of this really the espionage and the. looting you have a good argument or against great iran and iran sixty grand isle are not taught so i'm going to give it as guys i know we're hearing the usual talk of the question and right you know we're hearing the usual talking points but it's my obligate it's my program it's my obligation to give my guest his say even if i vehemently

disagree with him greg please in philadelphia thank you peter it's always a pleasure being with you so on one side you have a group which is saying that there's no benefit to the relationship who is peddling conspiracy theories on the other you have those who come forward with holocaust deniers and i think you have to look at the middle which is the fact that there is a u.s. israel relationship that provides defense benefits of right to religious benefits it provides over three million. israelis that came to the united states for tourist activities and on the other side as well the actual trade relationships and the technology that american companies get out of that is indicated by what's on the ground microsoft freescale semiconductor facebook ways all great companies that originated in america and are active in israel they also let us on the bilateral well going to go out i literally am doing all of their could happen without the same kind of strategic relationship i don't see how they're exactly tied together ok ok philip i saw you again grimacing go ahead. well i assume as i hear holocaust

deniers i know i know what kind of game is being played here i mean this is this is the constant vilification of anybody who criticizes israel in any way and i think what you have to look at in terms of this latest move about you who is who is delighted by bibi netanyahu war criminal the settlers fascists the christian zionists basically who who want armageddon to come so that the world will end so they can be raptured up to heaven and of course are the mega billionaires all of whom are jewish who support this activity and have supported the trumpet ministration in doing this and have been pushing for so you know we have a delightful group of people basically that are demanding this move of the this move on the embassy and and the rest of us who criticize it i guess are just holocaust deniers. grant to general same thing that they going to say about the trade relationship. in general of the israeli ministry of

economics right and apac stole american industry trade secrets to pass that deal and it's the worst bilateral trade deal in terms of cumulative deficit of all bilateral trade deals it had to be accomplished through espionage and thwarting the will of american industry labor and trade groups because it was a bad deal and you can clearly see that now dan you know greg can defend that as being a wonderful thing but it was another plot hatched by a pac and its many supporters in the israel lobby across the u.s. to take something from america an additional ten billion dollars in aid by pushing through a group of concessions that allow israeli experts exports free access to the human u.s. market while u.s. exports are essentially locked out you know and israel continues to spy on the united states divert nuclear weapons technology and know how its absence. really ridiculous to say look this isn't here in the relationship when you have so much

espionage going on here on the part of the israelis because i want to have cross talk rules i'm going to give greg the last word here and with the following question grayson if you wouldn't be just better to settle with the palestinians and get this in the past because it looks like israel wants to keep this complicates what people call apartheid together would need better just to make a deal and move on go ahead. peter i couldn't agree with you more but the thing is that when i palestinians and the israelis come to the table if it was under obama bush clinton reagan and the other bush every single time that the israelis are willing to make a deal the palestinians rejected so i think going back to an earlier that's right it was made it's wrong over stations today you're taking the taking the art of the deal from donald trump and sometimes it's the flip the conference table over and see where the pieces land i think there will be eventually a state of palestine with a capital and but it has to be on the u.s.

is roe rules with the palestinians coming to the table to recognize those actual circles can i have to just right here gentlemen i'm right here and i'm going to write it down this is the following phrase the law of unintended consequences buckle up impact soon many get thanks to my guests and personal washington and in philadelphia and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember to stop those. why i want to bring the dead how did return to london why it's a little it. was a mess it is a cool one no more important. than. the

plants. in the south and invincibility of our sense of. liberated. why do think you have to me. whenever you buy a russian product. you're not just going to get closer. to the little bit of his work.

cut. west bank violence leaves more than one hundred palestinians enjoy it as israeli soldiers fired tear gas rubber bullets and even live ammunition the tensions are up thing off the trumps bomb shell decision to recognize jerusalem as the israeli capital. mixed messages from the u.s. participation of its after leads in the upcoming winter olympics in south korea as conflicting statements within minutes of each other on the program we asked people in new york if they can guess which country might no longer take part. states. while the e.u. blacklist seventeen countries as off shore havens.