well decision but the decision was that a wise decision and you're saying that it was a compromise of sorts while i think that the i.o.c. enforce the rules that it has its disposal and it led to the situation we find ourselves in they disciplined their member of the russian olympic committee and the i.o.c. is about a good strong olympic games so they they recognize that and have used the expression they don't want to use collective punishment so they created the opportunity for. police from russia to participate in the olympic games well it's interesting you say he did they haven't actually resorted to be collective punishment because they are as i'm sure you would agree dozens of clean the russian athletes who have been denied an opportunity to represent their country and the government not the kremlin not president putin but that country all one hundred forty six million people each and every one of them you said previously that you

are not against russia you are against cheating but why then do you support these sort of collective punishment dot denies people who did nothing wrong and i'll put sheets you'd be proud about da country well unless i misunderstand the decision the i.o.c. took. the i.o.c. has created a pathway for russians to come and participate and that's a good thing there are obviously thousands of russian fleets working and training and dreaming about going to the olympic games and through the decision the i.o.c. is taken there is now an opportunity for that and for those individuals. well but those individuals will not be gratified by seeing that country's flag go by hearing that country's national anthem and it is their country that has invested lots of resources into the training again they have done nothing wrong and it is not only

those athletes but also millions of fans who will be watching the olympics don't you think that they have been penalized unfairly well i think the enforcement of the charter of the olympic charter by the i.o.c. against is its member is a very legitimate and responsible thing to do and the consequence of the rules that they agreed to participate by and and in force in russia as the russian olympic committee the consequence of that has repercussions i think the i.o.c. has created a really good way to demonstrate that doping and cheating at the olympic games won't be tolerated yet they've they've not taken a collective view against the individuals from russia who are going to participate if they can demonstrate to the i.o.c. you know one thing that makes me rejoice at this outcome is that i suspect that

both the russian public and athletes from russia may prove very creative in finding ways to sort of draw attention to that country of origin aren't you concerned that this denial of visibility to russian national symbols can actually backfire in making them even more visible because you can ban. the sort of the playing of the russian anthem but you cannot ban the baby athletes from singing it acapella you cannot ban the spectators day fans from raising the russian flag on this dance to don't you think that the russians would actually be gratified by drawing even more attention to themselves well i mean i guess that's not part of the mandate. the institute of national anti-doping organizations i don't fully understand the i.o.c. position on these things and and it's very clear over the history of the olympic games there have been many individual locks that of have. been taken by individual

participants during those games to express a point of view so i presume that russian athletes are no different in that respect than the i.o.c. we'll have to figure out how to deal with those those responses and reactions now the new york times ran an all pad just the other day titled the olympic ban house mr putin and herds russia and they're making at key speech i generally greed that these bond deeds to comment yet another opportunity to rally people around the flock and deflections how do you feel about mr putin being given what some would claim is an unfair political advantage well again from from my perspective i don't follow closely the political situation in russia although i recognize the historical significance there i think from my perspective the the the i.o.c. and enforcing its rules has to make those decisions based on the facts that it has

in hand and i think the i.o.c. took great care and some period of time before rendering that the situation so my sense is that and we've expressed that earlier this week we we appreciate the fact that the i.o.c. finally made a decision in time for individual russian athletes who can demonstrate that they deserve to go to the olympics and and are clean like their fellow competitors that they deserve a chance to be there mr mcwhorter let me just clarify my question because it is interesting to me to get your view on whether you believe sports. connected to politics in any way because russia is a very passionate country about its i. fleet's it is also very patriotic country and i can tell you for sure heard that politicians use sports for personal benefit there is also a feeling in this country that sport being used by russia's adversaries to penalize its unfairly so. i want to use the political considerations figure at all in these

doping scandal on either side well i take a different view about the purpose of sport in the benefit of sport i mean sport is a very powerful way to build character and improve the lives of of individual citizens in all of our countries and the joy of competition is really what drives the fleets and coaches that participate at the level take the sochi winter games. there was a very striking moment in a in a men's sprint semi final where a russian competitor broke his ski and a canadian cross-country ski coach ran to his rescue with a ski intended for canadian athletes and put it on the russian's foot so that he could finish the race that to me is the real power of the olympic of the olympic games of the olympic movement well and yet the organization also comments on issues

that. that could be deemed as political for example i know which is that in the recent i need a statement the language about the suppose it's role of the russian state in the developing controversy was somewhat modified you no longer use the mclaren charge of state sponsored interference instead you referred to it as the institutional doping and institutional while it is also a damning term it's not quite the same as state sponsored it lacks attributes and what explains that shift well i think you refer to the mclaren report in again unless i misunderstand mclaren report in its final form also use that terminology and noted that there was a systematic effort to subvert the doping system and characterized it that way so i now know has chosen to use those terminologies because. professor mclaren

presented those facts and we were merely commenting on the facts that professor mclaren reported in particular instance that has been upheld by the i.o.c. schmid commission it's been up held through other processes within the sports system so that's why we chose to use that term i'm not quite sure that it was fully powered by the smith commission because the i.o.c. report clearly states that the commission had not found any documented independent and impartial evidence confirming the support of the knowledge of this system by the high state authority so that is actually a contradiction in. and attribute to the mclaren report that because the report specifically states that this program was authorized by the highest and the highest level of a state the i.c. didn't go that far so we have these two reports you find more credible.

well again i think i think mclaren's reports suggest institutionalized doping and a systematic approach to do that. schmidt report was released earlier this week and as i understand it to suggest that there were officials involved in a variety of organized including the ministry of sporting clude ng the russian olympic committee and including the the russian anti-doping lab that participated in this process so they too have recognized that there were multiple in this to subvert the doping system for conclusion and there was indeed a recognition that officials have been involved in the i think where the contradiction lies is what was the highest level for authorisation of doc kind of program and i think the i.c. didn't point specifically to the kremlin as a thing and many what officials have done in the years well my reading of the

schmidt report and the decision the i o. i.o.c. took was that the the ministry of sport had some officials involved and i believe one of the disciplinary actions they took was the then minister of sport at the time should be held responsible for the activities of the officials in the ministry of sport and that's where the that's the limit to which certainly i now know would comment on is reflected in in the reports from professor mclaren and and now the schmidt report well mr mcwhorter we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments states and. join me every thursday on the alex salmond chill and i'll be speaking to guests of the

world of politics school business i'm showbusiness i'll see that. so there's no those all important as a person but he is important as far as business. calls a risk in the regime falling apart so indeed the americans are americans are much less dumb and to have him leave old oil from time to time saying at the again so in the end i think most countries are accepting that he will stay. when you all know it's coming through and spoke to me if somebody would have been told me that i'm going to spend my life to plan committees are allowed to destroy course it would have sold it was clear.

every night all we were attacked by the arabs oh are we will attacking them and we will extremely shocked and saying that's not possible oh me doesn't do such scenes and then the soldiers and myself and the. host with all the prisoner we've all dealt with over they all. believe much second close citizens in the on call. list like and i think in my head that there is noone will to be able to live together without. the odd. welcome back to worlds apart doc mccloy each year of the constituent national

organizations mr mccourty it just to pick up where we left off the mclaren with poor it relies too much greater extent on the testimonies a by the form. i had of the russian anti doping agency gregorio watching who claims that he himself played a vital role in doc large scale cheating procuring illicit substances tampering with the samples opening up those containers etc do you believe he should face legal responsibility for his own role in all of these well. though you knew you identified him as the head of our the russian anti-doping agency i think he was the lab director in the moscow accredited by water i think the decisions taken by water with respect to his oversight and. we would respect that's their area of operation and he's obviously been very strongly implicated in this process and the officials that are responsible to mete out those justice no doubt

will consider those things but mr mcwhorter he said just only is it only why it's business to decide what would happen to him because from what i understand and he himself is very detailed in describing his wrongdoing his own role in base whole scheme not involved criminal actions you know dealing in illicit substances breaking into classified facilities isn't that something that should be dealt with in a court of law because it seems to me that it's not just an athlete killed said the question this is actually a criminal activity right well i guess from my perspective where we work i know we work with individual national antidoping agencies around the world one of our members is we are really focused on helping. become return to the place of compliance with be able to run

a robust and independent anti doping program in in russia and we've we've enjoyed meeting the new staff there and beginning that collaboration and so far. as mr rudd cenk off is concerned from our perspective there is a huge violation of trust that is found in the world anti-doping code that we all signed on to and agreed to enforce and from my perspective his involvement is is a travesty and his agreement to participate in this institution institutionalized doping system is is a tragedy beyond belief so you know what what happens to mr rudd chunk of going forward i can't comment i don't even know where the gentleman is but i do know that his actions were a very very significant or did very significant damage to the credibility of anti-doping it's not just the russians who have some cleaning to do but also why

that band of the day russian was doing his job on behalf of wada and instead was the i seeing is what is celebrating him as a whistleblower when in fact he is an accomplice at the very least he's expertise was bydel to making that whole scheme possible he could have stopped it at any moment he did and don't you think that bringing him to justice in the legal sense would benefit why this perception in the eyes of the russians as an impartial organisation committed to anti doping practices why organizations so from my perspective water is going to continue to fulfill their mandate and follow the rules that drive the organization and are subject to assessment by the membership of water which is comprised of fifty percent governments and fifty

percent the sport movement so no doubt there's lots of pressure on want to do the right thing well the right thing would be bringing mr rauch in cause to account for his own actions and not letting. him to clay a claim the whistle blowing defense is defined simply because he's not just a whistle blower he was somebody who actually contributed and persisted baited in that scheme you mentioned before the issue a lot of participation and one of the leading organizations within why that is the . american and she doping agency which. starting in january two thousand and fifteen began receiving multi million dollar grounds directly from the executive office of the american president as well as a number of brands from the u.s. department of defense for anyone interested the data is available the usa spending dog off at least quite a few of brands totaling around thirty six million dollars in three years i just

wonder if you find it surprising that the white house and the pentagon have so much direct interest in anti doping activities well i think it's the it's the mandate of all governments of the world who have signed the you know sco convention against doping to take the steps in their country to to fulfill the enforcement of the world anti-doping code and they do that through a variety of means through promoting messages through funding organizations through making available the resources for anti doping activities to be undertaken so i wouldn't be surprised if governments around the world at their highest levels are committing funds to eliminate doping in sport it's the greatest threat to the credibility of sport and the greatest threat to the promise that sport has found within the olympic values well i have all due respect the white house is not

a state institution it's a political office which is very partisan by its very nature i'm kind of surprised that you don't see anything noteworthy political office would be. getting money directly to a such a specialized agency would you feel the same way if the kremlin's would have been found wiring money directly to rosado would not set off any red flags while. your knowledge of the internal funding of national governments is obviously much better than mine i think that from the point of view of the way the dollars within a government's operations find their way into. battling doping in sport and promoting the messages around the value of the sport is and is a national concern and it's it's. sovereign it's independent and each country i guess has their own manner in making that happen and so i can't comment on the way

that happens in the united states i could turn it immediately after the sochi olympics i mean that's when the money started coming not before but starting in january and i was in taishan athletes get asked my and various attention deficit disorder speech allows down legally to be taking drugs with performance enhancing qualities and there's somebody who studied in the in the united states i know for article professionals there i just wanted don't you think dad to really answer that question one has to look at the rules around therapeutic use exemption which are available to all athletes in the world and the premise there oxana is that athletes who require medication for healthy liberal anti-doping agency and by the international sports federation and it's and it's true i think that globally different medical issues present themselves at different rates and the medical

systems respond to those things differently in those countries are i i remain very use exemption and the oversight that goes along with those things are. are appropriate there and forced and very clearly the athletes that are unable to use those medications may only use them to the level of returning to normal health which means that the dosage is the dosage is watched very carefully the nature of the drug that's watched as it is is particularly important and often times the committees that make those decisions advocate the use of other medications that may not provide those those same performance enhancing benefits that you that you have are describing here so with all of those safeguards in place i think it's more appropriate to allow athletes that have medical conditions to be able to enjoy the

participation sport wise wouldn't be able to well mr mclaren let me add challenge that big fear that h l y should be treat. each of our neural difficulties. in a presidential way shouldn't those athletes if they have those issues be competing in paralympics well again i think the it all starts with establishing the rules and the rules that govern doping are established every four or five years at the all countries participate in and agree to a set of rules and the standards that support those rules which those standards really bring a lot of body and life to the to the rules from the point of view of how testing should occur the medications that may be permitted the sports specific areas of interest the way laboratories run and so on any country that doesn't agree with the rules that are in place and the rules that are being enforced have the right to

argue those with their peers and colleagues on a regular basis and then it's merely enforcing those rules so it seems to me that the issue is whether or not. there the rule you would agree with and i think the debate that exists is is clear and that's the nature of an association such as the olympics and such as international sport there are different approaches and different opinions and we do our best to try and establish a common approach and we share that knowledge freely around the world and for example in canada we have welcomed we have hosted rew saga and we hope soon to bring back in and share all of our information and approaches to this thing so that they can develop the the same type of standards and utilize them if they believe they're helpful within the country so it's a collective approach and i don't think that there's a single right way to proceed in this area oxana other than the common agreement

that we all arrive at and agreed to abide by mr mclaren i said in the agree with you on that point out only home and it is not only you who brings recite it to you so desired standard but then once it's been stated in the right it's good to goes american and canadian colleagues and push and get out of time but i really really appreciate you being on our show and tell us. all to see we have a great team we need to strengthen before the freefall world cold and you're better than a legend to keep it so i took a back. to that must qualify for the european championships at the very last moment no one believed in us but we won and i'm

hoping to bring some of that waving spirit to the r.c.t. . recently i've had a lot of practice so i can guarantee you that peter schmeichel will be on the best for an old joke though he didn't stop that's really good. stein is getting international recognition with the help of israel at least in the world of zoos and middle fiddlesticks misfits like you know. the season my complicity is going to go full some of. the.

demonstrators attempt to storm the u.s. embassy in beirut in protest that donald trump's decision to recognize jerusalem as israel's capital protest of also being seen in bethlehem and gaza. syria has been proclaimed free of islamic state though pockets of jihadists remain . russia's ban from the twenty eighteen winter olympics over doping scandal that erupted two years ago that spite the i.o.c. saying there is no concrete evidence to support claims of state sponsored cheating .