the end of the war against the caliphate is in sight but with the main enemy gone what will happen to the truce between president assad and the syrian rebels in the form of vice is the end of the syrian civil war or will it only serve to prolong the carnage. because madame former dutch special envoy to syria a veteran diplomat author off destroying a nation the civil war in syria welcome to the show great pleasure to have you with us so when that islamic state holds no more than a few small towns in south this serious stunning reversal from the times one that stretches from. now you might expect isis to revert to guerrilla tactics and terrorism now how dangerous well the terror will be after its military defeat it well there will be under groaned so it's more difficult actually to undergrown organization so they will try to do terrorist operations perhaps not in syria about

elsewhere on the world so why do you think they are going to get resources for that where well that's a point since they don't have the oil. have less resources but you don't need much resources to carry out a terrorist attack. well yani much resources to carry out a terrorist attack but you do need resources to keep an organization together you have to feed the people yes but i think they will have their cells or even people who are not really part of the organization are willing to carry out attacks on their own a separate cells so the syrian forces fighting isis are taking having losses in there as our whereas islamic state getting the strength and lots of aisha from to make a tough last stand in their remaining syrian territory i mean why aren't they folding like a house of cards right now they are ministry defeated they are perhaps still stretched

out at various desert areas within syria or perhaps small parts of iraq so but an organization which doesn't have a lot on still carry out all kinds of terrorist attacks all over the world as we have seen in europe for instance in western europe there have been various at the expo people who have grown up in europe they are not being sent by the so-called islamic states but they are assad's troops than the u.s. backed syrian democratic forces after the fall of rock. struck a truce recently with they asked a half according to their reports as well but thus far over the past few years the syrian regime has used other forces to eliminate one another it's a kind of war economy so sometimes it looked and the syrian regime has been accused of gordon a thing with the islamic state but in fact if that was the case of all it was just the let's say

a military strategy to use other forces to eliminate other. and i mean and i think that still is going to happen in a province like it live in the northwest there you have the the successor of. and they will be perhaps at the. by the americans by others by the turks so as long as other countries other armies are doing the work for desir ie an army it's all right with the muskets so they use use these other forces like friends of the kurdish forces of the most they have received in the past arms of the syrian regime not because they were friends of the syrian regime but because that state it suited the syrian regime to use them to attack others so once these other forces have been eliminated like this lemming state then i think this era regime will turn to others

and the miis like the kurdish forces in the north but it seems like the race to take credit for victory against i says is really on who can claim to be the ultimate winner here for instance french president mccall has already said we have won in russia to say mean a general victory i think it's not there and a country that really can claim that they have. there are so many countries involved in the fight against against islamic state it is the western alliance our countries the syrian regime the iranians the hezbollah so to claim it i think it's a political statement but it ition wants to claim that he or she is the main responsible for winning from dives and it's has been a process of various years what does day and devices mean for the local groups on

the ground in syria i mean are there syrian kurds and assad's forces going to go against each other ones to common house that anime is no more or will we see add to facto partition of syria between the kurds and arabs. i think nobody wants a partition of syria but the problem is everyone wants to have the power and syria sold them a big question though is that once dominated or defeated militarily and. the americans how much the americans are still prepared to support the people they were supporting before or whether offered has been defeated they will lose their interest and they don't want i think at all and the confrontation with russia star a peace deal is hammered out now we keep hearing about the opposition and what they want but what should we do with those who fight for us at are they going to just accept something they fought so hard to prevent was think that the main forces in

syria fighting for. are supporting him are russia and hezbollah and iran and they none of the other allies so they will keep supporting him. supporting they will keep supporting the regime because they don't want to lose a strategic you know syrians who are certainly a partially not all of syria but a lot of people in syria are still supporting assad what about them. well they they will wait until there is a new situation but syria is peaceful so they will keep supporting the regime and many others are opposing the regime and the negotiations are you can better go to interest syrian talks in geneva as long as both sites still want to eliminate woman or the opposition wants us to leave at least that although they say

we have no preconditions and this is the syrian regime in fact wants to get rid of the opposition so the syrian regime it it really speaking is getting more and more strong and the country's military speaking under the party that is stronger military speaking the more it is strong the less they're willing to really make any concessions you know after i visit to russia vladimir putin discuss peace in syria with donald trump do you think washington and moscow care really come to a consensus in syria i mean saying how their relations in all the other areas just abysmal i think it is relations the relationship between moscow and the mosque is and the united states and the masses symmetric. russia is a friend of the president of the americas is anime and have not only juror very. negative relations so it will be very difficult i mean you have

noticed if you notice that mr and damn for the past half year or so americans aren't so adamant about. assad leaving is as a precondition to anything anymore because they do understand in order to have some sort of peace settlement in syria they need assad right now and i don't think that that's i think the russia is actually insistent on not assad staying ones thing that assad as a person is the sole important thing for russia. no a so there's no those all important as a person but he is important as far as his leaving would cause a right so indeed the americans are americans so much less to have him leave old all from time to time they keep saying at the again so in the end i think most countries are accepting that he will stay and. dearest told to leave at the

beginning of the transitional period but there must first be a transitional period at all because for the regime transition is a kind of dirty word all they want don't want any transition the most they want and they reform us so but as long as they stay in power for the regime it's ok but gradually also from the gulf states and also from the us and for turkey those old those countries was first want to him to leave not only to leave but. they have now come to other opinions because they got articular support of the opposition because this gave the order back we'll continue talking about iraq now and talk about how in the near future some change.

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it i took the how to start game bigger and meant that the debts tie game and in the spiral not. many lives have been broken by excessive to the banks got you into trouble and all the big bankers got big. government by the banks but i just didn't think of the ordinary men who lost money for is a back handed down by creditors people see no future bad phase from happening you know you become ill you do to job your relationship breaks down you become a casualty is dead a life long trip or is there a way out of those actually come to a bit of an old marco to ditch bill from so much cisco from what.

we're back with nicholas van dam former dutch special envoy to syria discussing the situation on the ground and the war torn country welcome back mr van dam now the united states has a lot more troops on the ground in syria that they care to meet and it seems that there is no plan for any me it withdrawal what will the american military presence

mean for the final act of the syrian war when it comes it is really fully open but whether or not the americans want to stay syrian regime and the russians i very much doubt that they're really defend the opposition but they don't think they are going to take in any way this regime they may be using these forces to eliminate extremist forces in the province for instance together with the turks together with others but i don't think they are willing and the more role to fight the regime showed the opposition you mentioned turkey and i want to talk a bit about it the country has recently established another syrian foothold. is just going to keep its troops in syrian territory for as long as it pleases are they playing a stabilizing role here what's your take. i think the main thing for dave for

turkey is to get rid of any powerful position of the b y d the corridors party which is empowered and the p.k. k. so if dig at lehman eight or neutralized the role of the kurds in syria then for them it's ok i think. and of course if turkey suffers from terrorist attacks which would emanate from northern syria they want to. attack those as well these forces but i don't think the already have regretted that they've intervened at all because if they had not intervened probably the kurdish second factor would be that strong so i think india and they are going to cooperate with the regime to eliminate the kurdish forces in the north is a common interest but it's quite a limb and they tore to topple the regime of president bush. together

with other forces and then come back and cooperate with him against the kurdish forces which have achieved quite a lot of independence well what is saudi arabia which is accuser sponsoring rebels across the region go about its protests as being to fit it well that's just a band on them. did i think the m d is so dazed they are much more focused to iran than on any other force so they want to diminish the strength of iran for strategic reasons and for that they have no also a kind of link with israel boots which also wants iran to be eliminated from syria territory so i think deep deep saudis at first they wanted to topple the regime and i think now they accept that but they are much more interested in the strategic issue from syria because they didn't have any and the

problem with syria in the past but since let's say the american occupation of iraq and the off her mouth the arrhenius have a norm enormously one gained ground in the whole region in iraq in syria in lebanon so i think that is the main preoccupation sold those countries that interfered minutes really directly or into have directly in syria they had side effects which were very unfavorable towards them and now they're concentrating on these factors to eliminate them so for the turkey this is the kurds and for the so does this is iran says we're talking about all the players involved and you mentioned iran iranian sponsored man power is crush will tell us that success all those advisors militias etc if that stays in power and eventually wins the war is

that going to give iran for a chill mastery over syria will assad have to become aidan's client. i didn't i don't think so in the sense that also a sub wouldn't want those forces those foreign forces on his country except in a kind of way like for instance russia having a military base or so but not to say to dominate the regime is not what he wants at all he would he he they help them but once he will be back in power over the whole of syria that he doesn't want them anymore but the rain ians have their interests or it's israel of course so they want to have a kind of military base in syria to attack or defend against israel but the israelis don't want this at all so in a way the iranians will have to withdraw when there are not any more need it and this is i think the countries that support the regime they cannot simply dictate to

president bashar al assad what they want him to do because it's a beautiful thing they want to keep their so-called client their ally but their lands one back from the ruins of isis it is and baghdad's hands but as restless then it all comes on the back of the recent independence referendum campos ass's war break out in iraq over the kurdish question. well there is inside iraq i think in my opinion the kurdish democratic party or do that say dylan their leaders have a verizon the joint interview during the referendum they claimed all were the stone which was having him not only me but also the parties the controversial areas which they conquered in the interest of battling isis but francisco cook has also been very controversial so i think as long as the kurds under the leadership

of mars on the or anyone else stay within that tree which had the or official cornish autonomy i don't third is there's any reason for war and they have withdrawn so i think there's no and no oil but also it's also important and refused to leave then it would really be a war a reason for war but that reason has now been lifted or has been has gone has been eliminated by their withdrawal so the iranian side or rather a rivalry is what shaping in the middle east lately lebanese prime minister saad hariri quit his post very abruptly while in saudi arabia some say he was kidnapped they saudis claim that lebanon declared war on them then how to reach her and is now prime minister again it's really bizarre turn of and step in clips to paris cypress it's going on here as this all comes and off. think what he said what the

prime minister of lebanon said was that he had problems was. and the hezbollah being part of the lebanese political equation is dominant but it has bunch bigger military power down friends i don't think as far as i've been able to follow that hezbollah has a role in wanting to dominate the whole of lebanon the booty very unwise. but they've come to be that in the perception of saudi arabia they want a much bigger role. than they want them to have and this is old interlink iran saudi arabia that has been given a corridor yes. but if you're saying that hezbollah being part large part of the lebanese political establishment equation is the problem that we see how we are being back being prime minister should we assume that the problem is

gone it's dealt with well the problem or did issue of hezbollah being very very powerful militarily as long as they don't threaten the government of lebanon there is nothing nothing that bad is the saudis allowed to locate iran in cold war as well as qatar going to cave eighteen or move to iran scam pushed by saudi hostility well i think that iran. and some relations if not google for cooperation states. has moved more in the direction of iran.