could be unlimited searches and seizures so the government does need and has to have the right to some search and seizure however it has to be reasonable so what is reasonable and generally we require probable cause and a warrant so that's the real shorthand basis in this particular case the carpenter case and some others there was no warrant this was just the government getting information spying in essence on people and using it against them all right steve here's some news we can use if i'm stopped in the office or ask for my phone do i have to hand it over and if i do do i have to give him the password. no you don't have to give him the password and here again the idea is if you are stopped frankly they're not allowed to do a search of the inside of the car or ask for anything there with the exception in the very reasonable exception of if they look and they see a weapons so your phone should not have to be turned over to an officer

particularly without a warrant ok now what if i'm stopped because the police already knew what was on my phone blake you have introduced eight seven six eight one a bill which would add these sting ray device to a list of other devices that law enforcement uses to track phones and other data tell us what that sting ray thing does. one of the sting rays essentially it's a cell site simulator and it mimics being a cell phone tower and forces cell phones within a given radius to start feeding data into the cell site simulator they can get personal information personally identifiable information they can determine who the people are within that certain radius for instance if they were approached there's a protest and they want to determine who the protesters are they could use a sting ray or if they want to track a single individuals will cation or what data is going through their phone and they

turn that on and it just forces all the phones of the area or start feeding into it and it sucks up a lot of data for individuals who are not subject to the search so this device is already in use and what your bill asks is that the cops get a warrant exactly i enter first introduced this bill two years ago holland and at the time we had the committee hearing it was very amorphous people never heard of it it seemed like a far off technology and just last week in the province journal it was reported that our state police have used it the u.s. marshals have used that locally in the province police department have you sting ray devices i think it is an intrusive search and the legislature needs to set up requirements for sting rays are used there's been some controversy there in rhode island as the state is about to begin tolling trucks on the interstate highway opponents fret that told gantries they're going to erect over the highway could eventually toll passenger cars which if i understand this statute to actually

prohibits but within the last year the massachusetts turnpike took down all their toll booths and gantries there either beep your transponder or if you don't have one they read your license plate and send you a bill in the mail is this blake just one more way to track us. i feel that a lot of the times when we set up systems the intent originally isn't to track us but once that data becomes available to law enforcement there's a natural creep to use that data for law enforcement purposes on the the floor debate on the toll bill i actually put in amendment that would prevent using this data for purposes other than collecting tolls and that amendment was shot down so it is a very real concern that once this data becomes available that it will be used and the location of our movements i think is something that also should require a warrant before the government can figure out where we're going and where we've

been blake and steve in that order what other personal information what i'd be horrified to know that the police can get without a warrant. well i think lee this is not here. now blake then steve i think the cell phone tracking case is really interesting the case that you just mentioned because. what your cell phone data companies do is they don't just have data as to where you are many of them retain that data for up to eighteen months and so what the police have been doing is going to these third party providers and saying give us that data they haven't gotten the warrant and so the police cannot only determine where you are but where you've been and i think that raises profound privacy considerations and the police have been using a doctrine called the third party doctrine which essentially says mr cooke you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your data which is held by a third party and now has been developed over case law over years and years where

in the account we had your data in the police obtained it without a warrant then essentially your rights were violated i think the way we look at the fourth amendment now that so much of our personal information is held by these third parties i think the fourth amendment doctrine has to change to start recognizing an individual right to privacy in your data which is held by third parties yes steve same question what do they know about me that i don't know they know about me. yeah you know i don't think i've ever been on a show where i've agreed with anyone more than with blake i mean right down the line and yes the you know you look at your phone and your phone is not just your phone and this is something that justice sotomayor pointed out in the carpenter hearing it is basically the window to everything you do and this third party doctrine which is outdated and does need to be overridden was that if you gave if

you were allowed data to go or information to go to a third party then you've already given permission and the police can get it so if they can get it your phone they can get it your pictures they can see where you have been surfing as far as the internet they can tell every aspect of your life and so this is a real danger and it's partly a real danger that we participated years ago steve jobs said if you aren't paying for the product you are the product so when we are using g.-mail or any e-mail they are actually we're getting it for free but they are reading our e-mail into using and gathering that data for advertising purposes but all of that information is now in a with a third party and all of that could be reached under this third party doctrine well there's no free lunch now steve beyond the government tracking us there are hackers everywhere and corporations are aggregating so-called big data we have in car

systems like on star that are just waiting for our s.o.s. is the horse out of the barn or are there any privacy protections we can still count on. very little and you know part of it is there was a cartoon years ago pogo and pogo said we have met the enemy and he is us and here's part of the problem whenever we're using one of these services we will get a user agreement now maybe it's a written user agreement on paper but a lot of the time it's electronic and it's one of these things where we may be even using a service and we have to click that we agree to the user agreement before we can use it well no one reads those user agreement and no one sees the invasion of our privacy and this is something it's a type of contract called in and he can contract you don't really have any choice it really doesn't disclose i think there should be tremendous limitations because we have given away so many rights without even knowing it and we do need to draw

that line i mean the problem with privacy was outlined by then harvard law professor brandeis back in the eighteen hundreds and now now it is with the digital age we are in tremendous danger of losing very very essential rights of privacy through out our life well it's easy just to check off the box and say i agree blake i got about fifteen seconds to introduce your bill about the sting ray and twenty sixteen where does that stand now. so i'll be reintroducing it again in twenty eighteen and hopefully with the recent media coverage on the use of sting rays it will have some legs i'll add that it's very bipartisan i think there's three republicans two democrats across the whole political spectrum privacy and true interests i think are things that people of all parties have a console those constituent thanks to rep blake filippi and attorney and professor stephen j. j. wiseman thank you for stepping into the big picture and coming up it's beginning to

look a lot like christmas everywhere you go but if you're flying will you even get there even when it's not the busy holiday season air travel can be challenging and two experts have tips next this is the big picture on our t. america. how does it feel to be a sheriff the greatest job in the world it's as close to being a king as any job there is what business model helps to run a prison now we do this do or don't like i said you know b.t.o. visitation i don't know what comes anymore we don't have to serve them anymore it's cost effective that's what they want to do that as long as they don't give a damn if you do the charge on that they're actually paying us to put it back into

. the louisiana incarceration rate is twice as high as the u.s.n. breach what she could is behind such success. join me every thursday on the alec simon shore and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see if. if you only fly ok generally say home for the holidays escaping winter taking the kids to see mickey mouse air travel can be daunting and for road warriors like me air travel isn't just a routine it's a constant game we play and joining us are paul hudson from flyers rights dot org

the largest nonprofit airline consumer organization and charlie oka from travelers united dot org which advocates for all of us getting from here to there wherever we go and however we get there well come right to be here when president carter signed the airline deregulation act of one nine hundred seventy eight it eventually did away with a government agency imagine that among other things the civil aeronautics board was involved in setting routes and regulating fares and the goal was to get government out of the supply and demand of air travel. paul and charlie in that order are we better off now well the cup is at least half full and half empty depends on how you look at it. certainly the prices have have not gone up although some people say they were going down faster before to regulation but the overall experience of air travel is clearly going down charlie well really has deteriorated in terms of

what happens with. with airline passengers right now everything from the size of the seats to the break up of the one price ticket that covered everything all of these ancillary fees and everything it really is starting to get almost more difficult now to travel than to get or a mortgage because there's so many different are so many arbitrary fees that are involved as well as the seat size getting smaller and smaller and all of that even though the airfares haven't gone up more people are flying in the same sized planes right and suddenly confronting baggage fees etc exactly all kinds of add ons paul what is the flying public snubber one complaint lately well it used to be delays but i'd say that seat and passenger space has now risen to the top you know that controversy about a year ago about that gives million put on the back of

a seat in front of the need to fender that got loud charlie what else makes for unfriendly skies well i think that the big thing that makes for unfriendly skies right now is that. crowding people together and planes pushes them into a social situation that they're not used to and when they have closer contact with everybody and start to have more. interpersonal disagreements and so between the discomfort of the seats and just having more and more people on board the flights that's turned into a real problem these days i end up getting stuck either in front of or behind of two total strangers who have just met and are suddenly giving each other and download on the most intimate details of each other's lives i don't need that and now you know either before everybody had a cell phone in their pocket we had air phone and for confiscatory fees you could

swipe your card to get a bad connection and all of the air phones disappeared years ago can you imagine if cell phones were permitted on airplanes again. well they are better in europe and in some other areas as there go there it goes all right i think that a lot of people think that cell phones can be used all the time or employments but it's more like the old air phone you're talking which was so confiscatory that you nobody picked it up so i think that even though. you know they've been banned here in the united states we don't have to deal with it but where they are allowed to be used people don't use them as often his own as we would think it's not like walking down the street it's going to cost significantly more to use that phone and after one flight the sticker shock is going to be pretty amazing because everywhere we go except on airplanes the loud talker is annoying and obnoxious yes t.m.i. and what had to be the most damming airline scene of the year seated passenger was

dragged off a united flight to make room for an airline employee. paul what policies changed in the wake of that debacle well. united airlines claims that they have changed their policies and other airlines seem to be somewhat following suit but the underlying problem of passenger mistreatment has been like the iceberg mostly under under the water what we saw after the dr dow incident which of course. got almost a billion views worldwide was a whole series of other videos showing mass. passenger mistreatment which you can see on our website and what that indicates is that among other things besides the overcrowding that charlie mentioned we have enacted in the united states as part of

the patriot act rather extreme law that makes interference with flight crew which can be defined by the flight attend to. a federal felony punishable up to twenty years in prison wow and flight attendants are regularly threatening people with that and that was the situation with dr del had he not been injured he would have been arrested and he would have had to get a criminal defense attorney instead of the civil attorney in our view so the flight attendant has that much discretion. yes they do and. people don't realize when they get on an airplane they're giving up many of their constitutional rights and they can complain but they better do so for the most part after the fact or else they could be threatened with this statute the statute was originally enacted to prevent terrorism after nine eleven but as far as we can see it's virtually never

been used for that it's used for all kinds of things that used to involve fines or disorderly conduct charge well you are imperiling the whole plane if you're really out of control so somebody has got to draw the line charlie i fly every week and i am thrilled when that kiosk spits out a boarding pass that says t.s.a. pre but that is just the appetizer once onboard the menu is sardines us what can if anything be done about more creature comfort well the first thing you can do is join t.s.a. pre-check that way it always spits out and get luck of the draw down our hair and so if you do that that actually helps everybody else move through t.s.a. security lines for a long time i've said that the real security for t.s.a. takes place long before we get to the airport we've never caught a terrorist at the airport or an airport checkpoint it's sort of it's the last.

it's a barrier to getting on board flights the other thing that ends up happening is that if we were to take away that t.s.a. check the flying public would feel like that unprotected so we've kind of created a monster here there's a psychological component to it yet very much safer flying exactly right right and so all of that you know goes on and and it's. it can be on make make life more stressful going through all of that kind of security or. if you know that everything's in pretty good shape just relax and and move through stressful if you're running late that's for sure that's absolute and you have now that's when you definitely want to have your t.s.a. pre-check and men paul like everything else we shop for lately we buy airline tickets on line do the airlines plane nice with priceline inexpedient in the others or is your best buy to purchase from the airlines website well that's that's hard

to say. most of the the airline tickets you're buying now are are coming directly or indirectly from the air carriers website or or something it's closely related to that. one thing that the online people have in the past given you although it's not as good as it used to be is the ability to price shop and if you want to price shop otherwise you have to go on a lot of different airline sites you know i think that oh oh. the real secret to finding low fares these days is having a website that covers a lot of different airlines and different routes and if the air if the airlines had their way we would have to go only to airline web sites and the magic of priceline the magic of google flight the magic of expedia is that you can go on and you can see what's going on and how many flights are between point a and point b.

and how much it's going to cost you and you can comparison shop and this is been an ongoing battle for us way back since two thousand and nine the very first baggage fee was charged more the first major airlines charge the baggage fee in two thousand and eight and that was american airlines and ever since then consumers have been trying to get those ancillary fees made public so the travel agents can let us know and expedient can let us know and priceline can lead to know how the airlines still are not required to pass on a real fee transparency and it makes it more difficult for us to get the best price yeah i hate that you know just tell me what the whole thing's going to cost and southwest airlines which is my fave because they're so flexible with change fees etc it's actually cool in the slogan transfer errancy and they show you in their marketing material charts and tables of comparing them to the others because people

feel betrayed you know i thought i was paying x. dollars to get from here to there and it turns out to be why well southwest is the best and then you get all the way down to spirit which has even more added fees and allegiance in front here and if you start to look at international carriers there are an awful lot of added fees down even though you get there are some very low cost carriers make sure you add up everything right the other thing that i suggest is make sure that you're flying on airlines that have some kind of frequency otherwise if the flight is canceled and you're stuck you're really stuck you might not get out for two days. we don't have the old wrists reciprocity rules that used to be where they don are each other's tech exactly those are gone and paul and i have worked with the o.t. we've been trying to get that changed and we you know to do real positive effect yet god bless you i've got thirty seconds paul this is all useful stuff any other advice for the air traveler be they occasionally or frequent well i'd say the

number one thing especially over holiday travel if you have to be somewhere you can't rely on the airline actually flying you in a timely way we have urged people you need to have a plan b. right and that may be a reservation for a refundable take it on another airline another way to get there because as charlie was saying with the flights being eighty ninety percent one hundred percent full if your flight is canceled or delayed it might be nice actually not a matter of hours and might be a matter of days or you can get to your destination i've been there i've been there thank you paul hudson flyers rights dot org and charlie oka travelers united orc this week a big win in alabama and the winner was alabama it's people will suffer that caricature less than if a noisy election had gone the other way and

a big loss at the f.c.c. maybe not the vote to kill net neutrality would not take effect until january by which time the courts could say not so fast and congressional action is likely because this national conversation got so loud and this week on the internet google told us what we search most in twenty seventeen number one hurricane erma which like hurricane harvey reminded us that no matter how much noise we make it each other we're all just neighbors here that's the big picture if you missed any part of this week's show or if you lie. to share it hit youtube dot com slash the big picture r t you can find all our shows there and if you watch us somewhere else you can also see r t america on direct t.v. channel three two one happy hanukkah and prayers for john mccain.

everybody i'm stephen both got to ask hollywood guy usual suspects to be proud american first of all i'm just george bush and r.v.'s to say this is my buddy max famous financial guru and we're just a little bit different on this day. no one knows up with all the drama happening in our country i'm shooting the brood have some fun every day americans at home and hopefully start to bridge the gap this is the great american too much. time. for us to quit profile for people who are happy to pay the maximum in the extortion

racket that the drug and insurance companies got the government to impose an unconstitutional tax called the bomb of care is that they are bought in to america's various foreign policies of rape and pillage for a few bucks that's the foreign policy or to let pharmaceutical companies create an opiate crisis domestically you don't hear anyone questioning that unless and they say r.c.m.p. say or any of the mainstream media outlets they all buy into it they get paid a lot of money they'll pay the stipend to the health extortionist and their bamma care folks as long as they push the line that. there is still an active ghostlike population that's crawling around america fishing through garbage spells living on five dollars a day entering the third world and trying to game the system twenty four.

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