i know it has changed since then but it's certainly not fully or properly legislated i wonder if when you look back at what has been done and what still needs to be done are you more inspired or depressed. i think both because when i look backwards i get inspired when i look forward to depressed because there's still a lot of things to be done we still have lots of difficulties with pain killing and we still don't have enough forms of golf and that would follow. the philosophy of police would mainly have injections and we've got to have pills that we've got to have for children we'll have to have sprays we don't have all that and. of course we could have bought it all abroad but policy. in drugs in russian federation doesn't let us do this and it's quite a long time till we have it all produced here in russia i think that the first in

that noninvasive. painkilling drug for children from birth will only appear in russian federation in two thousand and twenty two we used a lot of pain for children. you mentioned the philosophy of the hospice moment and i think the slogan of the hospice moment here in russia if a person cannot be cured it doesn't mean that he or she cannot be held strikes at the very heart of just the distinction between medical and palliative care and i know that from personal experience that many ordinary people strongly effort that emphasize that but i wonder if the death origins have internalized the do they treat pale aged care as something that they are obliged to provide like medical care for example or still as a charitable activity. you were right when you say that very little time ago some ten fifteen years ago we had just a few hospices in this huge country and obviously a little bit. have around

a hundred yards yet we had about an hour hundred hospices but we also have a lead of k. units everywhere and we have home care services quite a lot of them but a few years ago. this few activity is a really only existed. due to enthusiasm of they only do it and they have very scarce financial support from the government and even fuel money from charity. it was over the after my mother's death my mother very as you said she was a pious apostle who brought into this country in its. social fickle south actually brought it from the united kingdom after my mother's death she died seven years ago. were thor it is the government have stated police of medical care in the federal law about. health. but

unfortunately the understanding of elite if care to turn to medical care in this law very much differs from understanding of police of care in the world health organization in russia it only states that police have medical care aides to ease the suffering of the patient by means of pain killing or some medical inventions. therefore in our legislation point of care left all the aspects connected with spiritual health with social support easily which is the sum of both your mother and yourself have tried to provide them the facility has and that's what's been happening in the last years so i think in this country we should not so far look at policing care. sort of coursing out one of its aspects federal money or charity money hopefully will never have to

cross out charity of federal money but. i think one of the hugest achievements of charity you verify is that in the last eleven years and there a foundation has existed for eleven years now. is that this phrase the phrase that you mentioned if one cannot be cured it doesn't mean one cannot be helped it no longer causes any questions i very well remember the time when i would address journalists and to the channels ten eight seven years ago and we would come to talk with journalists and they would say ok but please know what cancer no word such as hospice on no death on there ok why what would you don't want me to talk about then as years passed by now there's no questions about it any longer can't can i pick up on that because in the one of your interviews here you talked about normalizing or even humanizing death and from what i've known in other countries to you the

hospice moment has encountered certain resistance because of all those professional and cultural taboos associated with open communication about death how big of an issue is that in russia i think it's a very big issue actually death and topples and talking about death you cannot look at it. without your behind you have to take into consideration all the cultural layers and what is it specifically say about russia because it's not only about people are afraid to discuss death here but for example you know that in russian many forms of cancer are diagnosed extremely late for effective treatment partially because people are also afraid to recognize the symptoms the level of. credibility the level of. trust to medicine to social services to the government is very low it has always

been very low in this country this is a paradox we all very like authoritative power we all very much love strong leaders but we let trust and when people let trust they do not turn for help in proper time they do it when it's too late and also when christian feel loss of fee suffering goes along with death and suffering. eases your sins before you die this is one of the hugest problems actually which we face when we talk about pain killing. but nevertheless going back to your question and to our chief once i think that the meth fact that. politicians no longer turn a deaf ear to the problem. it's only this year that we can we started saying about

hospices are about like hospices are about leading to the very end. and this is now welcomed because now people realize that without fully to care all life is much worse and if you have to fear something you have to fear death without hospice but living food to the very add also means a bad. inning hope of curative treatment that's a very important distinction between medical care and palliative care and in russia we have this saying that hope is something that dies last and what are you actually saying is that sometimes you need to allow that hope to die before the person you know care about would never hope always dies last but you know with matters. what you hope for you can hope to be cured but usually i would patients i think ninety nine point nine percent they know it before doctors say that they know it before their relatives feel it they have feeling of their own boat as they understand

what's happening and hope. shifts you know they hope so the winter they hope to live to new year eve they hope to see maybe if their little children to become toddlers they may be hope to once again hug their wife they may be home to see doc therapists again because we have docs coming here. saying i've chosen hopes no they're not simple pleasures they're the most important pleasures i always say to journalists or to sound doctors or nurses who come here for the first time in their lives and they have this question of what people think about before they die what they fear of what they talk about so you know they never talk about problems we talk about they talk about each other they talk about their families they talk to their children they like every single thing in life which we being healthy don't notice you mention the word family and you are also

lost your mother to cancer and she's somebody who is i think remembered in this country for trying to institutionalize kindness and dignity in the country where. let's admit it not many people are used to being treated with kindness and dignity especially by the state i think she definitely succeeded in creating that. caring atmosphere within one institution but you are now tasked with trying to spread that kind of attitude throughout the whole field the least in moscow what makes you believe if you can actually do that to her as. i see the result people are not used to being treated with dignity and kindness which once you start you feel the response so fast it's very inspiring you come to a medical organization to hospice which two months ago was closed rather resembled a prison than

a hospice and you talk to nurses you and you tell them look we're going to have i would twenty four seven we're going to have volunteers along with volunteers because people here actually are dying we have to admit this nothing can harm them any longer we will have cats and dogs coming we will have concerts here we will have alcohol and we will let them smoke and you suddenly see the nurses say really we can't do that we've always wanted but it's been prohibited you fill that there's such a demand for being a loved and also a demand to let people love we have. doctors here who never thought about it but we care and too tough a year ago and it was always my few that they would come see of their patients actually die every day and they would leave and they're very bright very eager to

be educated they want new knowledge and they want to to feel they want to feel necessary and some of them say we've never have worked in a medical sphere would where we would have so much gratitude so much response they thought their relatives would hate them and relatives loved them and it is so absolutely inspiring to hear something at telephone call or a person coming actually i just had a man in my room who set the same words he says my wife has just died thank you well this is absolutely impossible to believe until you come and work on this fear and how i'm pretty sure that you encounter that pretty much every every day off work i hope to be in with patients every day but unfortunately unfortunately most of the days now are spent in different. in this ministry office and while i'm all that tough because we need to take

a very short break now but they will discount that immediately after the break. like the many clubs. so i know the guy even so i got. the ball isn't only about what happens on the pitch or the fun of school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the superman he just killed and spending to do to twenty million. it's an experience like nothing else really because i want to share what i think from what i know about the beautiful guy great so what more chance for. six point eight. hello my name's peter and i've been living in russia now for about seven years and

this is a film about just some of the crazy things i've gotten through in the time. when you're going to get this. i'm going to just run their store due to the cuts the. mustard does not get. the credit that they are.

welcome back to worlds apart to make me the subject matter how the author mosque a soundtrack for palliative care knew that i know that you not only have been trying to change the culture but you've also been trying to change the legislation to policy and i heard you say that every legal and shipment here takes much more effort is than it should why do you think it's blowing so much difficult to move things around because the things that you related before they break out very understandable so you know officials public officials are people too they have families they have older parents they have children or so they have what is called in russia blot they have a possibility to pull the strings when they need something to help with that i mean i would be as good as you know knowing because i always think that if something happens in their family they will go to the first post the hospice settled by the hour. and they will for their relatives have dignity and painkilling actually for

me today especially if this is a very painful question because i have an absolutely awful meeting yesterday which practically killed me. but nevertheless the night is over and i'm back to work and i'm sure that. i'm sure that i very well know what i want for our patients and sooner or later. making him a symbol everywhere i have started the family the memory of the meeting yesterday because as you said in one of the interviews that the british colleague of yours once told you not to be afraid to dance with the devil and i know that the russians are christie is not as evil as the devil but sometimes across as callous and indifferent how do you penetrate that callous as this same doctor who gave this advice couple of years ago he came here to lecture in front of pediatricians about using often for children in care and after one of the meetings he came up to me and said nutro you remember i told you this raised

a lot when i said yes i use it i know i lived with it and he said well i've never thought that you've got so many devils around. but in fact you know when you actually penetrate you see that holes they're just extremely tired they have lots of tasks a lot of very honest very hard working people extremely exhausted because they actually work in the world of papers and. computer and that's it they don't have this fit back which we have when we go to the wards and talk to relatives of patients. why the. i actually what i fear is that one day might come when i will stop understanding that papers especially in this country mean march less than bureaucrats thinks they do all good things are usually done. during papers can i mention one good thing rich

is actually a devastating story because on the one hand it's one of the success stories of public i'm sure as here in russia which involves the every lability of opiate painkillers especially for cancer patients and i know that the process was extremely. difficult until the suicide by one of russia's counter admirals the man by the name of an awesome guy who shot himself in the had because he couldn't bear the pain anymore i know that the death actually how countless others but i wonder why do you think that particular case was able to move that policy why the counter admiral and not let's say. a mob there or a child well because this is what we already talked about this pulling the strings the blood out because actually come to admiral of that level is a person who can easily open the door and talk to the president of the country and if at this level the system proved to be absolutely impotent and he suffered from

pain so watch that he killed himself in his own apartment and actually he has written. a suicide note which is that that he did it to help. all others dying patients to do with pain did he have yes i think that all the changes in legislation after that have to be. called his name and i am always in touch with his and with with his two doctors and whenever something good happens i always write to them and to look we've now done this or that now we can. give people pain killers when they go home for five days in advance this is thanks to your father but there's still

a long way to go we cannot and we will never have every person who needs pain killers. who without pain unless we criminalize some of the elements in our legislation today every doctor and every nurse who works with drugs who work with drugs they can be. sued in case any mistake happens in this very complicated process of prescribing drugs and actually it's not surprising that people just don't want to work with drugs and unless we deck women allies this we won't have doctors coming into the sphere i know that you and other. organizations have been very consistent in logging for it to criminalize ation. i know that there is also a problem in the field. dealing with the use of foreign money in that sector and we

talked about these. people in the apple there are people in the government and they structure of the government is very dominated i think by one age group with one very specific background so that creates a lot of suspicion around foreign money coming into the country how big of an issue is that. i think it is still an issue for some charitable organizations for some and geos. it is no longer an issue for in jos that work in health or in education as far as i understand this law or the corps. we actually fought to change some of the wording in the slower and we succeeded and now if you work in this of that fear you actually can all be some changes in the legislation and get foreign money and you will not be for an agent you are talking about this special

exemption from foreign agents law or socially oriented anything else but what it also created is it created the motivation for other angles to register a socially oriented for example the analytical center of the russian government is registered believe it or not as a socially oriented and your reach is clearly not that is by primary function don't you think that this will create another reason for this law either to be revised or to be perhaps stricken all together there are so many lor's in social sphere which i think should be revised starting with committee of lore and and joe is the smallest of the evils here and. at a certain point. i stopped myself and i said. either i work in police of care and try. to make everyone not only believe that people can die in love without pain and with dignity

but also have it in real life not only in that but we have to limit your field or i will die anyway so because there are so many things i want to fight against as frustrating as it may be i think you are the greed of palliative care at least provides a very inspiring example where social activism has been impactful that cannot be said about many other areas for example in the penitentiary system the government is not very welcoming of either public contribution or public oversight what do you think makes palliative care so different because you said that people believe in blood and yet somehow you've been they believe in in blood which is the russian award or a special access or a notice and but i think there is still a record of achievement there would be exploitive care special very simple death everyone is afraid of death and when you tell them the flu this can be frightening

this can be with a lot of this can happen with a lot of love around it can happen with no suffering who just want to open the door in a little bit just a little bit. how it is and also this is one of the spheres when you can very easily feel that. if your life is perfect with that you have no problems all that what really matters that we're really hurts that's a real problem it's here in hospice on this back that's what's happening now when you're losing somebody you love losing forever and also in this fear people can feel they are needed very easily because when you are side by side with somebody who is completely helpless everything you do being near holding a hand scratching somebody its shoulder for them doing this or combing hair or feeding or giving water to drink every minute of your life here you feel that

you are needed we left it very much but also when you say about a penitentiary system i think that as death in fact is everywhere you go outside and you know that in every big block of flats some distain of this mode this is a huge city death is in. prisons death is in children hospitals death isn't grown up hospitals death is in flats actually police chief care is something is an instrument with which you can go into a prison for example one of my dreams if i have two wives is to settle a first hospice for prisoners in russia and i hope maybe maybe again i ask you perhaps the final question because our time is running out i came across a recent poll the other day suggesting that two thirds of russians sixty seven percent participated in some kind of charitable activity in two thousand and

seventeen that's a big number thing and two thirds two thirds no i don't believe in it cannot be true well we will leave it to the pollsters but i think at least that this is my perception that more and more people are ready to contribute to their community and i wonder from your. and how should perhaps could the government to stimulate and to use that social energy to lead it contributed this is the development i think. of that not two thirds but much less than two thirds but the amount of people who are involved it grows it escalates sometimes people take part in charity and they don't even understand it when they buy. fried potatoes in mcdonald's or when they put some koreans into a special box in a supermarket they don't realize what it's going for. but it will

grow there's another idea or whatever they say that only ten percent of money that can be collected from. citizens into charity to go into charity is now collected only ten out of one hundred possible i think what government can do but they have actually started doing already they have to welcome volunteers they have to create special conditions for volunteers who. want to volunteer in a hospital at least give them a possibility of free transport to kids for example they have to talk about it they have to be open they can create some special conditions for students and trying universities as it is in europe if you volunteer and you can prove your volunteer activity you will have some i don't know preferences. there's

a lot that can be done actually well perhaps opening up the government i think it. could help making it more transparent and more inclusive well currently i definitely believe then. that charity and volunteering are those two things that will keep the country united that will. certainly set a couple of weeks ago a person to another person is a volunteer and if if we believe in it if we follow it. we will stay. and the nation which has hope rather than had i hope well you know on this very inspiring to have to leave it there really appreciate your time interrogators please keep the conversation going on our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place and time here on a well to part of. that

field to be sure of the greatest job in the world it's as close to being a king as any job there is a good business model helps to run a prison now we do this do it on my guess is nobody over the place and i don't no one comes anymore we don't have to serve them anymore it's cost effective that's what they want to do that's known they don't give a damn if you did so all of them out there are actually paying enough to put it back into the louisiana incarceration rate is twice as high as the u.s.n. breach what secrets is behind such success.

with whole existence to do something to. put themselves on the line they did accept the reject. so when you want to be president. or some want to. have to do right to be close this is what before three of them or ten people get. interested in the waters. there soon. oh. i.

iran shuts off access to social media the largest anti-government unrest to grip the country since two thousand and nine. calls for a rethink of the new refugee policy saying migrant quotas will not solve the crisis plus. the fireworks light up the sky is countries around the world welcome in the new year. broadcasting live direct from our studios in moscow this is the r.t.

international in shock.