giving them an all star every now and then you click on an ad. so there's definitely a lot of non-monetary exchanges in the internet a lot of the economy of the internet is non-monetary exchanges well mystify not we have to take a very short break now but they will be back in just a few moments they can't. all see we have a great see what we need to strengthen before the free float world cold and you're better than a legend to keep it so it's at the back. in one thousand nine hundred two that must qualify for the european championships at the very last moment no one believed in us but we won and i'm hoping to bring some of that waiting spirit to the aussie team. recently i've had

a lot of practice so i can guarantee you that peter schmeichel will be on the best form since my last world cup from that. thousand the old joke was only here i called russia. nice dry. left left left more or less ok stuff that's really good. with little make this manufacture get sentenced to the public will. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the flame and merry go round lifts and neither will. we can all middle of the room see. the room.

welcome back to worlds apart through out the door and founder of dual lingo. the ultimate for form of crowdsourcing is democratic governance at least in theory and i think there are major issues in both developed and developing countries with how power and governance are practiced and applied do you think technology can or will ever change the way our societies and not only organized by how they are governed. i think it will is very hard to say exactly how that'll happen but i think it will and i think it's starting to happen we're starting to see i mean we're starting to see a lot of very nice and efforts but we're starting to see people for example there are programs where people can report. problems in their neighborhood all with with

computers and eventually they get to the government so we're starting to see some of that. i don't know what the ultimate thing is but i'm sure if acknowledge i mean technology is already part of most of the things in the world i'm pretty sure it'll it'll get to the government i don't know if you would agree with me but i think at the root of bad governance is actually institutionalized inefficiency because there are many powerful corporate actors around the world who have a personal interest in keeping the system inefficient and they essential. if you were asked to approach that algorithmically what would you stars services that you want to provide in the case of a government i don't know them in services or probably health and education and you start with those and you get really good at that and then grow from there are you also pro need a really good tax collection service as you need to monetize you know as i was for writing for this interview i came across a very interesting poll about people's attitudes towards replacing judges with computerese to minimize corruption and the influence of bias and it turns out that the stronger the country support system is the lower is the percentage of people

who are in favor of that in russia or i see why the malo the majority of people would rather be judged by computer is the problem judges again the question is technological not political gain a thing you can write an algorithm for something like the application of law i think so yeah it's already it's already the case that there are computer programs that are giving advice in many legal issues better than lawyers i mean that's already happening this is not for all things but there are many cases where there are for example i.b.m. watson is being used to give legal advice that and i saw a study that was starting to become more and more accurate and legal then look when human lawyers advice for certain types of law so over time i think that i think that will happen over time well i think it all boils down to the same question you're had to face bit catch and recapture whether some tasks. how to do what have to be completed by a by the humans or better to be delegated to the computers and when it comes to the

society can you really ride an algorithm pull power of governance because philosophically i think that's a very interesting i think yes i think i mean i i think it's only a matter of time i don't know how long but i think it's only a matter of time that computers will be able to do everything that humans can now speaking about russia i mentioned before and i know that your community here has roughly six million years or so which frankly speaking is not that much but i heard that russia was the first country within the dual lingle family to deliberate a community generated language course that's how did it come about when we started doing ghost of the courses that we had we talked spanish and we talk german those were generated by us inside the building a company. but at some point because we got we got asked for so many different languages we decided that it was better to allow different communities around the world to create courses the first one was in fact the course to learn english for

russian speakers and that was generated entirely by community members the way that came about i mean the we left when we opened up this program called the dual lingual language incubator which is where the new courses are created the russian the russian team was the first to apply if you don't organize team war or just the community of users there they they are now an organized team but they didn't know each other they had different people applied and now the you know now they know each other and there's a clear there's a clear leader of the team and they organize it so initially it was a grassroots operation initially it was aggressive operation of people who applied who didn't even know each other they apply to us and we say we found about five different ones that were some of them lived in russia some of them lived in the united states but they were native russian speakers. and we put them together as a team and they have worked very well together well it's interesting you say that because in this kind. we often lament the bill lack of sort of citizens' activity and the passivity on the part of the fraggle or boaters but it seems to me that

what you're saying is that there is some extra exceptions to that yeah yeah and we're very happy when the russian team has still to this day this was about four years ago that they created that course still to this day they're working on improving it so they lasted a long time now i know that though when you just launched a lingo you relied on the crowd sourcing to source translations for various google pages and or other websites and i know that the international association of professional translators and interpreters was very unhappy with this and other kinds of efforts because they they were afraid. to lose their own livelihood do you have any sympathy for their argument because i know you stop sourcing the translations but do you think something like this will replace that profession yeah i mean i there are many tasks that there's a spectrum of tasks that are about how hard they are you know to do by computers

some are already entirely done by computers they weren't done before for example i don't know one hundred years ago the first computers were actually. people who were hired to do you know additions or multiplications and they did that i mean there's a whole story about how you know the space agencies had entire rooms full of people doing the dishes and multiplications that's gone that is now done entirely by computers unfortunately i think translation is not yet there but it is one of the easier things to do by computers that will be gone in the next in the next twenty years most translators will probably be out of a job i mean i'm sorry for them but this will just happen this is inevitable i just want out of curiosity why did you then have to drop the service so we did not drop it because of their arguments we dropped it because for us we were when we when we started doing well the main thing we wanted to do was to chill out which. the

translation was a side business to try to monetize the teaching of a language one of the two language for free and we the idea was that if people were learning a language some of them would be doing translation for us. at some point we realized that this is a lot because that's where the money came in a lot of our effort was being spent on translation and we didn't want to do that we actually wanted to teach so we stopped doing that and we decided to come up with other business on a list that were more related to teaching rather than translation that's interesting now another profession that feel that pressure from tech interpreter is like yourself is that of the driver i know that you used to be driving a perhaps still driving a tesla. how far do you think we sell driving. cars very close i mean i think the thing that will take the longest is probably adoption you know people have to buy their cars get rid of the old one so there's a whole cycle of that which may take ten to fifteen years but the technology is very very close so i think that will happen now tesla c.e.o.

elon musk recent they generated a lot of publicity it with his warnings about artificial intelligence a lot of he also weighed in on that i also want to ask you whether you consider his warnings perhaps a form of alarmist marketing or did indeed share his concerns i think there are a number of concerns i mean i think you may be a little a little alarmist but i there are a number of things i mean one of the biggest ones is over time more and more people are going to be left without a job and that's a big problem in a lot of our society they get meaning out of life from their job and that's not going to happen anymore you know in the future and we need to figure out as a society how should we deal with that and i am you know i'm not too concerned about countries say like the united states because a lot of the artificial intelligence produced there so they're deriving value i mean for example a company like google or a company like facebook is they're writing a lot of value for this which if they pay taxes to the government the government is going to have enough money to you know pay to everybody but poorer countries where

they're not developing this technology they're going to be in trouble because a lot of times the economies for example an economy like my country were one of my lies. our economy is based on cheap labor that's what our economy is based on and if cheap labor starts going away and we are also not deriving any value out of artificial intelligence there's going to be a major problem so i do think i do think we need to think about that another concern i heard many analyst warse make our start to push the intelligence is that . in a way it would be similar to you. i government structural or some sort of a social order because sooner or later you will have to make ethical decisions about how to prioritize human lives and again is that the kind of for example if you're using a driverless car and it gets into an accident you have to prioritize let's say the life of what driver or the life over the lives of the pedestrians is that and now

the capture moment is that something that a computer can deliver a judgment on or is that something to be left to the to the society an individual decision making i think it's going to be done by computers and i'm glad that it's going to be done by computers because a lot of times. a lot of these decisions when they're done by humans they're not fully thought out i mean a lot of times when you are driving as a human and you're faced with one of these decisions you usually do not have the time to think about all the implications yes in fact that there are lots of studies which show that people tend to prioritize that whole lives over the lives of even passengers will in most of the accidents people tend to go to the right side reaching dangerous the passenger and gives priority to the driver so right i'm not just i mean a lot of times they just you know a lot of these this is i just think are not well thought out whereas i think if we were to put this in an algorithm at least we would be able to a society come together and say ok in this case what is the best thing that could happen but then the other is it appeared to prioritize

a society over an individual can consumer in such a way because when you buy something of value you buy it for yourself what's well that's that's exactly i think the question that we're going to have to deal with i mean what is that what is the right priority but what i'm saying is a good thing is that. we'll be able to make that decision as opposed to now where you know the decisions just be made in this in a in a half a second at least if we put it into an algorithm we will come together and come up with a good answer for them it may not be there may not be a perfect answer but there will be one that we at least them accredit the agree on . now your answer is somewhat similar to the wand that was given by mark zuckerberg facebook c.e.o. who also suggested the fears of artificial intelligence was maybe a little bit exaggerated but he was immediately accused of not being able to come up with an algorithm that would. be growth of the so-called fake news and i want to ask you the last algorithmic question of whether you believe it's possible to

develop such an algorithm and how would you define fake news in terms of you know writing a program to eliminate yeah that's very hard that's a very hard question because. i mean if i knew the answer i would have done it already have you looked into it have you thought about i have not thought much about it i mean i i thought about it as much as a lot of kind of computer scientists have thought about it but not not specifically why would it be so difficult because it seems that fake news is a very commonly used term especially in the american the environment why is it so difficult to come up with a definition a technical definition for it well i mean maybe a definition is just news that is not true but the problem is truth is very hard to define. why so i mean even you know defining it as one thing finding it is just very hard i mean i can just say anything i want and because i have a lot of followers on facebook some people will believe it we are we are currently having that problem with the president of the united states who just this it seems

whatever he wants and some people believe it and it's hard you know are you claiming that the new york times is failing and if you look at the actual graph of the new york times revenue is in fact going up but as a good fraction of the population believes the new york times is failing just because he says it it's very hard this is it's very hard to take your fill for mr zuckerberg after i do i don't know how to how to you know i don't know how to fix it well anyway we have to live in the area really really appreciate your time with us please share your comments on our twitter facebook and youtube page just i hope to see you again same place same time here in the world apart.